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Planned Economy and Battle Rating changes - 28.01.2020 [FEEDBACK]


Vehicle: Chieftain Mk. 5

Mode: RB

Suggested change: 8.7 to 8.3

Reason: Only better thing it has over MK. 3 is little more powerful engine. I dont see this as a valid reason to be 8.7

 

Vehicle: M60A3 TTS

Mode: RB

Suggested change: 9.3 to 9.0

Reason: Why should slow M60 be that high? Its identical to RISE except fo thermal sights and ammo with 30 more mm of pen. When it uptiers you to 10.3 you cant compete with any modern MBT with your slowness.

 

Vehicle: M1 Abrams

Mode: RB

Suggested change: 10.0 to 9.7

Reason: First Abrams has nearly all  properties same as Leopard 2K, no armor and good mobility, minus good stock grind. Why it should be this high when better Ariete Prototype is 9.7?

 

Vehicle: Type 89

Mode: RB

Suggested change: 8.3 to 8.7/9.0

Reason: This is second best IFV in the game, good autocannon, godly missiles which you can shoot on move, i think its should not be this low in BR, when it is basically BMP3 with little bit worse missiles

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Heavy Tank No.6: 5.7 -> 5.3

 

The japanese tiger has the same hull as the tiger E but is the same as the tiger H1 on all other fields. This tank does not get the APCR shell the Tiger E does, Nor does it have access to smoke shells, smoke grenades or the roof machine gun. The only reason it is at the br of the Tiger E is the 20mm tracks at the lower front plate and therefore does not justify the same br as the Tiger E and should instead be moved to 5.3 as the tiger h1

 

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On 28/01/2020 at 13:28, Soviet_Megumin said:

BMP2 price decreased? For such a good IFV????? 

I do not understand that.

It got double Nerfed, Moved to 8.3 and lost a lot of Pen on its APDS

____________________________________________________________________________

Vehicle: M1 and M1IP
Mode: RB
BR Suggestion: 10.0 -> 9.7
Reasoning: More competetive vehicles have Been introduced at the 10.0 BR Range, making these Vehicles pointles if not useles. (Powercreep)
AMX40, Leo2K and 2A4, T64B, T80B have Better armament and in some cases even Better protection.

 

Vehicle: Merkava 2B

Mode: RB

BR Suggestion: 9.0 -> 8.7
Reasoning: The improvements it adds over its Predecesor (Merkava Mk1) arent enought to justify a higher BR. Protection stays mostly the same, Armament and amunition doesnt change at all while only fielding minor "soft" improvements that nearly all MBTs at 9.0 already have acces to and in many cases do better (Thermals, Engine upgrade)

 

Vehicle: Type 90 and Type 90 (B)
Mode: RB
BR Suggestion: 10.0 -> 10.3
Reasoning: The protection and Armament of the Type 90s is Similar to that of M1A1 while beeing overall more mobile

 

Vehicle: AMX40

Mode: RB

BR Suggestion: 9.7 -> 10.0
Reasoning: With its Mix of strong armament and great mobility it is easily the strongest 9.7 MBT currently in game and even surpases some 10.0s in performance

 

Vehicle: Object 685

Mode: RB

BR Suggestion: 9.0 -> 8.7

Reasoning: One would think that the Big brother of the 906, propably the best LT in the game, might be a great upgrade. It is not! The Amunition is in parts from a 7.0 and in other parts from a 8.3 vehicle, T-44-100 and T55A. The Later of which has an alright but not an amazing dart even for that BR, Pair that with a lengthier reload over the 906, no major imporvements in mobility and amoracks all over the vehicle and you have a death trap.
Everyone can see you thanks to the abundance of Thermals at the BR, everyone will kill you as soon as they look at you thanks to the spread out and big amoracks, while beeing slower than some MBTs you can see on a regular basis.

Edited by JohnF0X
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There needs to be some serious naval BR decompression for the top tiers.

 

Vehicle: Brooklyn

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Overpowered compared to 5.0 cruisers simply due to having 15 152mm guns with a very short reload. 

 

 

Vehicle: Helena

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Same as Brooklyn, they're the same class. Over-saturation of top tier premium cruisers make playing starting 5.0 cruisers very unforgiving.

 

 

Vehicle: Pensacola

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: 5.0 starter cruisers are not at all competitive to top tier cruisers due to having much larger/more guns.

 

 

Vehicle: Koln

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.3 to 5.7 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much firepower compared to 5.0 cruisers. (9 guns with quick reload)

 

 

Vehicle: Nurnberg

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.3 to 5.7 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much firepower compared to 5.0 cruisers. (9 guns with quick reload)

 

 

Vehicle: Admiral Hipper

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Large size, armor scheme and large caliber guns make her nearly impossible to deal with in 5.0 cruisers.

 

 

Vehicle: Prinz Eugen

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Same as Admiral Hipper. Same class.

 

Vehicle: Graf Spee

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.7 or higher

Reason for change: Has been demonstrated to frequently one shot most cruisers even with HE. Extremely powerful and has no place facing even some 5.7 cruisers.

 

Vehicle: Mogami

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much fire power compared to 5.0 cruisers due to having 10 guns of large caliber.

 

Vehicle: Suzuya

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much fire power compared to 5.0 cruisers due to having 15 guns.

 

Vehicle: Chapayev 

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much fire power compared to 5.0 cruisers due to having 12 guns.

 

Vehicle: Southampton

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much fire power compared to 5.0 cruisers due to having 12 guns.

 

Vehicle: Belfast

Mode: RB & AB

Suggested Change: 5.7 to 6.3 or higher

Reason for change: Has too much fire power compared to 5.0 cruisers due to having 12 guns.

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M4A1 (76) W to 5.7 in RB
M4A3 (76) W (US and japan) to 5.7 in RB
M18 to 5.7 in RB

Those changes are completely unnecessary. At batte rating of 5.7 you have much better medium tanks like Panter, which has better armament and better armoured and is more mobile. Similarly with Centurion Mk 1, while being less mobile it also has better cannon and more armour. Both M4A1 (76) W and M4A3 (76) W weren't overpowered at their battle rating, those tanks were just good. They are going to suffer if those changes come live, at 6.7 they'll fight much better tanks like Kingtigers or RU-251s. Moreover there are better variants of Sherman tanks at lower battle rating like French M4A1 FL-10 (at 4.7) that has 7,5cm auto-loader, M4A4 (SA50) (also at 4.7) that has a 7,5cm cannon from Panther.

               
 
 
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Vehicle: Black Prince (Churchill)

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: 6.0 BR to 5.7 BR

Reason for change: Outdated Tank should be at BR

 

Vehicle: Chi-To

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: Keep it at 4.3 BR

Reason for change: There is no need to up tier the Chi-To its fine where it is

 

Vehicle: Chi-To (Late)

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: 4.7 BR to 4.3 BR

Reason for change: Offers nothing better over the early Chi-To

 

Vehicle: M4A1 (76) W

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: Keep it at 4.7

Reason for change: The M4A1 is fine at 4.7
 

Vehicle: M4A3 (76) W

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: Keep it at 5.3

Reason for change: The M4A3 is fine at 5.3

 

Vehicle: 75/46 M43

Mode: RB

Suggested Change: Keep it at 4.3

Reason for change: The only good Semovente Tank Destroyer

Edited by Cpt_Jack_Irons
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This is a 2nd feedback, I up votes many battle rating change:

 

Amx 13 Hot can 8.3, reason for Hot, no thermal, no night vision. This is why.

The Ka-50 need 10.3 or 10.7, but actually in ec heli mode... Is too good and i never face or see Ka-50 spam have kill ratio 2/1 all the times...

Many player say for R3 t20 can go 5.0+, and i agree (or 6.0), the reason is not the guns, Is the speed to go very fast in capture zone, and last event tank is full R3 T20. I have play this... And is not fair for WW2.

For the R3, i think he can preserve the AA role, but i think he can have the scout ability, and i think is a good buff for go 6.0.

Up vote For the heavy's Is3, Is4 and T10M. Low to 0.3 in 7.0/7.3/8.0, for Maus and E100, 7.3? Why not try reduce many battle rating.

 

 

Thinking a match making 0.7 is a good idea.

The reason to have this 0.7, is for have 1-1-1 (.0 .3 .7, .3 .7 .0, .7 .0 .3),

Reduce to 1.0 in 0.7 this is a way to compress the Br and have no problem for match making,

Compress the match making by 0.7, add many tech tree in the same br but have not the problem to Low high.

And reduce match making br = reduce max Br in actual game, to go in a real 10.0 match making. It's a + + +.

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Hello.

River will be at 3.7 in RB useless. At 3.3 is OK, let's keep it there. It is uniqe ships with only 2 4" guns and no armor. It is huge and slow. At 3.3 is fine.

Pls. finally move Fairmile Ds (697) and (5001) down to 3.3 from 3.7. So high are not played and useless. 6pdr guns are not so effective to be at the same BR as Pr.35 and Pr.159.

At 3.7 will those boats (and River) compete the Narvik DD with 150mm guns :facepalm:

 

Decrease repair cost of Maus and Conqueror in the SB. Compare to IS-4 are those tanks crap - guns not so good, slow, large with paper armor (yes, T-34/100 is able to kill Maus to turret front) and without the 20mm .50 cal on the roof. While the IS-4 will cost 11.000cr, Maus at 28.000 is a joke (i know, it is a German vehicle, but again, not so effective and easy to kill). The same Conqueror.:facepalm:

Edited by Packal
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First off, thanks for the opportunity to voice our opinions.  Second it is nice to see the 8.7 premiums going up in BR.

 

All my suggestions apply to Ground RB

 

M60A1 (AOS) 8.3>8.0

This tank is outclassed by almost everything at its current BR of 8.3.  It has a super tall profile making it very easy to spot and kill.  The Italian M60A1 is at 7.7, and the only difference is no stabilization.  So clearly the armor doesn’t make it any better than the regular M60 at 7.7.  The STB-1 has way better mobility, a smaller profile, and very similar if not better gun/ammo options and it sits at 7.7.  Or the Shot Kal Dalet is at 8.3 with similar mobility, but a little smaller profile, has some ERA, and it even has APFSDS.  So what makes the M60A1 (AOS) need to be so high in BR?

 

M60A3 TTS (US) 9.3>9.0

Here we have a tank that is completely outclassed in every way.  This tank never got an increase to its mobility from the original M60.  Still has the huge profile that makes it easy to spot.  Can we honestly compare it to the XM-1 or the MBT-70 and say that they are equal? It’s not like the Chinese Tree CM11 where it gets a better reload rate to help compensate. I’d be fine with getting rid of the M774 it shoots and put this tank at 8.7.  But either way it should not be able to get pulled into the top tier matches.  So it needs to get reduced to at least 9.0.

 

Thanks for your consideration 

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Oh great, the Lorraine 40t is going up again in repair cost and in BR (with the AMX-50; in RB: 6.3->6.7->7.0->7.3->7.7... What's next?), and that, just after its shell has been severely nerfed... This is simply becoming absurd.

Gaijin should start understanding that the more they are massacring this tank the more it will only be played by SL-rich players (I have 175+ million, so I do not give a baguette), and very good players which will be the only ones to be able to play successfully this glass cannon at such a high BR.
Far many months now, the Lorraine 40t has been the most expensive tank in the game, after the marginal/rare E-100.

 

More generally, here is the list of Russian and French (non premium/event) tanks costing more than 5300 SL in RB:

 

Russia           AB           RB

IS-4M            5000        7030  (pretty hard to understand, by the way; as if the IS-4M were such a monster spammed by so many players)
T-80U            3600        6100  (here, we have a cheap monster for sure)

That's it! Most Russian tanks, even at high BR, cost between 2000 and 4000 SL to repair.

 

France                     AB          RB      (with a tentative comparison to a somewhat equivalent Russian tank)

Lorraine 40t            5840      19310    (Object 906       1190    3000) - Object 906 has a much bigger autoloader, and a choice of shells
AMX-50                   4760      12410    (T-44-100          2800    3900)
Leclerc                    9100      10000    (T-80U               3600    6100) - France has only one good MBT after the severe AMX-40 nerf; AB cost is absurd
Char 25t                  4320        8560    (T-44-100          2800    3900) - This one is particularly ludicrous for such a mediocre Char 25t at BR 6.7
AMX-13                   2100        7000    (T-44                  2920    4500) - Also 3 to 4 times more expensive than any German Panther
AMX M4                   2750        6910    (T-44                  2920    4500) - Also 50% more expensive than the superior Panther II
AMX-13-90              5000        6300    (T-44-100           2800    3900) - Also 80% more expensive than the Ru 251
AMX-40                   3800        6300    (T-80B                 2600    3880) - This is absurd, especially after the severe nerf of the shell of the AMX-40
AMX-30 (1972)        4000        5860    (T-54 (1951)       4300    3820) - Also more than twice more expensive than a similar Leopard 1
Roland 1               15230         5500    (ZPRK 2S6        11000    4700)
AMX-50 Foch          3760         5410    (SU-122-54        1600    2600)    
AMX-50 Surbaissé  2520         5300    (T-10M                2820    3540)

 

Considering that there are much more Russian tanks than French tanks, these two lists sure point to a clear imbalance.

What can justify that the Lorraine 40t is more than 6 times more expensive than the Object 906 in RB (5 times in AB)?

How can the Roland 1, inferior in all accounts to the ZPRK 2S6, could be more expensive than the latter (50% more in AB)?

What justifies that the AMX-40, especially after the huge nerf of its shell, is 50% more expensive in AB/RB than the T-80B (a grossly superior tank)?

 

Even below the 5300 threshold, the same pattern repeats:

AML-90                  3460        4900    (PT-76B              1270    1600; no, I am - almost - not kidding)
AMX-30B2              4900        4700    (T-62                   3700    3500)      
AMX-30 ACRA        2400        4410    (IT-1                    4000    2500)
AMX-10RC              2700        4100   (Object 906         1190    3000)

 

Should we really believe that the mediocre paper AML-90 and AMX-10RC (both killed by 0.5 cal) deserve to be that expensive and are spammed in the game? Or that the AMX-30B2 (and Brenus), without a stabilizer at a BR where most of its opponents have one should be 35% more expensive than the T-62?

 

French tanks (in particular, in the 6.0-8.0 BR range) are currently prisoners of their absurd repair cost. As a consequence, they can only be played by SL-rich players and the good players (which are often SL-rich) able to exploit their overall good mobility, despite their general total lack of significant armor. As a direct consequence of being played by above average players, these tanks have very good stats, and their BR and repair costs are then again continuously increased, which further help to sustain this absurd vicious circle.

 

The only fix I see is a drastic reduction of the cost of French tanks (in particular, above BR 6.0) in order to encourage more players to research them. As the player base playing French tanks widens, it is expected that the average performance of French tanks will mechanically decrease. Then, and only then, BR and cost adjustments could be made in a rational manner.


As a side note, the case of these French tanks above BR 6.0 (and of several other tanks of other nations) shows again that balancing tanks with repair costs is simply wrong, and that it has unintended negative consequences which strongly affects the balance of vehicles in the game, like the vicious circle described above.

 

 

Edited by No_Camping
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my feedback regarding the 8.7 premiums going to 9.0: can those then please get thermals in 'commander view' then? at least with the Type 74 i already get uptiered to 9.7 almost all the time, meaning i fight vehicles that have the thermals in commander view already and during day battles they're able to see me way, way earlier then i am. unless this is something regarded as "unrealistic" 

 

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9 hours ago, Wolf_89 said:

People PLS! Stop asking Gaijin to lower many vehicles. Ask them to increase the BR of other vehicles instead.

Because if you lower some vehicles. You only move the problem to the lower Rank/BR vehicles.

So they will suffer instead of your Fav vehicle.

 

This . this is crazy seeing peoples still asking for stuff to go down like if it wasnt reasonable to ask for top tier stuff to go up

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I didn't notice this on my first comment, but M18 has absolutely no place at 5.7, unless Gaijin's objective is simply to make it ineffective, since it will be regularly going up against 6.7 tanks now. 

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I personally feel that the 76 Sherman variants and T20 shouldn't have a BR raise. Where they currently sit is perfectly balanced, and there's little to no reason to change them. The same goes for the Centurion Mk. 10, which does perfectly fine at 7.3. At 7.7. The Lorraine 40t would be acceptable at 7.7, if you lowered its repair costs, but in this state, I think this is simply unfair. None of these tanks deserve to get a BR raise of any sort.

There are a few vehicles I would like to suggest for a BR increase or decrease. Mind you, I haven't played the game a ton, but I'm kind of going from some of my experiences in playing, as well as what some of my friends have said while playing the game.


America
M26 Pershing 6.3 -> 6.0 
M26E1 Pershing 6.7 -> 6.3
T29 6.7 -> 7.0
T34 6.7 -> 7.0
T30 6.7 -> 7.0


Britain/UK
Black Prince 6.0 -> 5.7
Tortoise 6.7 -> 6.3


France
ARL-44 5.7 -> 5.3

Germany
Panther A 5.7 -> 6.0
Jagdtiger 6.7 -> 7.0
Leopard 1 7.7 -> 7.3 (Only if Vickers MBT stays 7.3)
TAM 8.7 -> 9.0


Italy
M26 Ariete 6.3 -> 6.0

(Side note, can Italy ever get something to fill their 4.7 - 6.3 gap? Its so... Yikes.)

Japan
Chi Ri II 5.0 -> 4.7

USSR
T-34-57 4.3 -> 4.7
T-34-57 (1943) 4.3 -> 4.7


I've probably forgotten a few that I feel should be changed, but these were the first ones to come to mind! :3

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Why are a bunch of random vehicles that pretty much no one construes to be OP or bad, being flopped up and down in BR without much consideration or consequence to what it can face, and what it can be taken out with?

 

All those french and american tanks back down to their normal BRs please. There is nothing overpowered about any of them, - how is an M4 comparable to the Panther A?

 

And why is the german M48 going down to 7.0...? Who? What? I wish the centurion mark 10 got the same treatment, but I guess its really 0.7 better?

Edited by *XreGenerations
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I'm very disappointed how little attention the over tiered japanese vehicles received.

At least Type 16 in AB is down to 9.0 so that is something to looking forward to.... i guess.

 

Type 5 Chi-Ri 

From BR: 5.0

To BR: 4.7

Mode: All 

The Type 5 Chi-Ri has been over tiered since it was introduced into the game and it has been long overdue for a buff !

This vehicle has absolutely no reason to be at a higher BR than the M4A1 FL 10.

It has large profile, not enough penetration against 5.7 let alone 6.0, small magazine size of only 2 rounds for the auto loader, weak armor and very flat, mobility of a heavy tank, horrible turret traverse speed, no coaxial machine, no anti-air machine gun ETC ETC...

 

Type 5 Ho-Ri Production

From BR 7.0

To BR 6.7

Mode: AB 

This vehicle kinda struggle at 7.0 in AB. While it has amazing hull armor but everything that is important s behind the flat part of the vehicle ie. ammo racks, loaders, gunner and commander and anything with 200+ mm of pen can lol pen this thing easily and kill all the 4 crews in fighting compartment, and a lot of stuff from 7.0-8.0 even at 6.7 can easily pen the super structure of the Ho-Ri with APHE round.

Not to mention in AB you have aiming indicator so you can not hide the massive flat parts with stuff like bushes.

 

The gun looks decent at a first glance but then it start to even bounce the Panther hull armor because it is the only vehicle at this BR that has regular APHE without cap as its best shell, and it struggles to pen stuff at far distances, at 1000 m it barely pen 180 mm even the German 88 can still pen 200 mm of armor at 1000 m.

I barely touch this vehicle any more, the repair cost is ridiculous, its armor only protect driver, it's gun has been nerfed for the longest time and it is not worth for 7.0 just no way.

 

Type 75 MLRS

From BR 7.0

To BR 6.7

Mode: All

Like seriously this thing is a thin can with rockets, it can not pen anything directly, you have to always aim for weakest parts of a vehicle then spam at least 10 rockets at one single vehicle and hope for the best.

Worst thing of all it has 0 gun depression and no scouting.

Absolutely no reason for such vehicle to be in the same BR as things that can one shot this thing from 5000 meter away.

I say keep it at rank 7 but make it go down to 6.7 like the T114 premium.

 

Type 75 SPH

From BR 7.0

To BR 6.7

Mode: All

Same reason as MLRS, the BR of these meme vehicles don't make any sense! Why a derp vehicle with only 61 mm pen is at a higher BR than Tiger 2, T30 or Jagdtiger ??? It has lesser chance to pen anything than any other vehicle of the same BR, it has no armor and often get machine gunned to death by aircraft especially in AB where you have people flying every 20 second, it is so frustrating! Also despite the MRLS get access to arty but this vehicle for some reason doesn't. It also has no scouting which would making it slightly more useful.

 

Type 60 ATM

From BR 7.0

To BR 6.7

Mode: All

Well, what can i say, it is the worst ATGM vehicle in the entire game and it still at a higher BR than Strv 81 or AMX 13 SS.11 which are both at 6.7 ?

How is the Type 60 a better vehicle than those two by having only 2 or 3 more missiles and its missile is way inferior to theirs ! I don't think i have to say much about this thing, we all should know that it is simply not a good vehicle to be using at 7.0 - 8.0...

 

Pretty much all 7.0 should go down to 6.7,all of them are bunch of derp and meme machines that are not competitive at what they are right now!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by I_NAMELESS_I
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5 hours ago, JohnF0X said:

Vehicle: M1 and M1IP
Mode: RB
BR Suggestion: 10.0 -> 9.7
Reasoning: More competetive vehicles have Been introduced at the 10.0 BR Range, making these Vehicles pointles if not useles. (Powercreep)
AMX40, Leo2K and 2A4, T64B, T80B have Better armament and in some cases even Better protection.

Nononono! You do not move tanks down to fix it. Move other tanks up!

AMX -> leave at current BR

2a4 -> 10.3

2a5 -> 10.7

T-64B -> keep at 9.7 (baaad mobility, survivability, no thermals)

T-80B -> keep at 10.0 (still bad reverse gear, survivability, and lack of useful armor versus M829)

 

While the Abrams armor and gun pen has been powercrept, everything else is good.

 

However the T-80B for example has had it's armor powercrept, everything else sucks.

 

Edited by ColdMatches

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Just my opinion and take on BR changes I think should be made:

 

R3 T20 FA-HS - 3.7 to 4.7, vehicle is extremely derpy and somewhat overpowering, espiecally when seeing 2.7 vehicles thanks to a combination of a resonable autocannon and excellent speed.

Firefly (all) - 4.7 to 5.0, primarly so the vehicle can get the Shot SV Mk I

Achilles (all) - 4.0 to 4.7, same as above, so the vehicle can recieve the Shot SV Mk I, plus due to its 17 Pounder it is quite capable at 4.7, turret rotation speed withstanding.

Avenger - 4.7 to 5.0, same as above, so the vehicle can recieve the Shot SV Mk I

IS-2 - 5.7 to 6.3, excellent main gun, with mediocre speed and armour, arguably on par with the Tiger II (P)

IS-2 1944 - 6.3 to 6.7, excellent main gun and armour, with mediocre speed arguably on par with the Tiger II (H)

T-34-85 - 5.7 to 6.0, excellent speed and main gun, mediocre armour, arguably on par with the Panther.

T-34-57 - 4.0 to 4.3, excellent speed, main gun and armour for its BR

Challenger 1 Mk. 3 - 9.7 to 10.0, reasonable trade off for the L26A1 Jericho round

Edited by GrandMoffTano
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