Turenkarn

USSR tree grinding - what happened to it?

3 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

...

 

Yeah, agreed with most of it.

 

As for the BR 7.7 stuff I have played the M48 and M60 some time ago (both were still 7.7) and I remember the M48 as having quite decent mobility. Maybe top speed isn't that great, but I think it's more nimble than the T-54 series, accelerates better and all that. The M60 and Magach 3 really are slow, especially the latter.

The T-54 series, well yeah, would fit 7.3 A LOT better, but I still enjoyed them more than most of the tanks before them. They do need to be top tier at 7.7 to work, facing mostly 6.7 - 7.3 tanks, but when you get a match like that they're quite decent. They're okay-ish against most 7.7 stuff too, not strong, but you got a fighting chance. However - as I said - they have zero uptier resistance.

 

I also agree Britain is a lot better, starting from around the Sherman Firefly all the way up to the top, they have both better designed tanks and better lineups, they work well for the vast majority of times, and even have very good BRs. (maybe Chieftains are an exception for the BR part). I tend to think Britain has the highest uptier resistance all around, which says a lot about them.

Japanese and Germany seem definitely better as well, especially the stuff you mentioned too. Both Type 74G and the premium Leo (L/44) are just insane for BR 8.7, with superior ammo, great mobility, great gun handling, fast reloads and xxxx thermal sights... They just have it all, except for armor, but if they're halfways decent players you don't ever get the chance to shoot at them anyways, so why should they care...

 

The new Merkava Mk.2B is also a very tough opponent for a 8.7 - 9.0 USSR lineup, we struggle against them a lot with my friends... Russian APFSDS is considerably worse against angled armor than others, and it definitely shows against tanks like this... another point to the endless list of tovarish's weaknesses...

Things like the KPz-70 and the XM-1 are very problematic too, their vastly superior gun handling and especially their insane mobility just puts USSR teams at a huge disadvantage (M18 does the same in lower tiers), not to mention the XM-1 has thermals as well... There's just sooo much crap around that T-55 and T-62 series were never meant to fight against, there are the AUBLs too and the list goes on... They're all just quicker, pen you easily, see better, etc.

 

Coming to think of it, playing BR 7.7 - 9.3 russian tanks pretty much feels as if you were playing a regular FPS game like Battlefield, but cross platform, with a controller and 1080p @30pfs... against PC players who use mouse + keyboard and run at least 1440p @100fps. Your tank's agility, sights and responsiveness are just that bad, compared to theirs. Seriously.

Edited by Turenkarn
  • Upvote 6
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Coming to think of it, playing BR 7.7 - 9.3 russian tanks pretty much feels as if you were playing a regular FPS game like Battlefield, but cross platform, with a controller and 1080p @30pfs... against PC players who use mouse + keyboard and run at least 1440p @100fps. Your tank's agility, sights and responsiveness are just that bad, compared to theirs. Seriously.

 

Best quote ever :lol:

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I killed a couple of guys last night that probably would have beaten me to the punch had they been in Leopard 2 instead. 

 

The T-80s' armor can be tough sometimes but overall the Soviet MBTs are pretty easy meat for even the 105mm Abrams in most situations.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, the T-34/85 chicken coop is for sale now. What a lovely tank, but seems entirely pointless. Buy one to lose twice as often!

 

edit: and it looks like we're getting an armored car as super early premium. What an utterly cynical play from Gaijin. 

Edited by armis5738
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, armis5738 said:

edit: and it looks like we're getting an armored car as super early premium. What an utterly cynical play from Gaijin. 

 

Not even that. It's locked behind the World War mode wall... Sad, cause would've been a lovely counterpart for Puma.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23. januar 2020 at 21:57, armis5738 said:

I take it will not be easy to grind through the World War mode?

 

Have no idea, honestly, never tried it before.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've been grinding with a 8.7 lineup for quite a while now, since progress slows down a lot at Rank VI... and yeah, doesn't get any better. I often finish in the top 3 in my team, although many of those are matches we lose...

 

I rarely get 8.7 battles, it's mostly 9.0 or 9.3, where we usually face the MBT-70 (+ it's clones), XM-1, the Merkava 2B, as well as stuff like the premium Leo, Type 74G, etc. They're all just superior to everything I have, and in many ways.

 

T-55AM-1, has okay-ish mobility (not fast but works), but the gun handling is pretty bad, and in combination with the slow reload, it gets me killed a lot. You often can't take the shot you want, because of slow traverse, bad depression, etc. and then you have to wait an eternity with the followup shot.

Also the 100mm gun both the T-55 tanks have is just bad, it's weak for this BR. The APFSDS it has has a relatively low weight (low spalling), and also has a low penetration, not to mention it's really bad with angled armor... so much so that even many APDS rounds surpass it. It's just a bad gun.
On the premium version the ATGMs are fun, they have good stats, it's also fun to kill helicopters with them, but in general are very situational weapons. They get stuck on any obstacle, just like HEAT rounds, and the missile requires you to stay on target for long, and exposed. Many times I take the first shot with it, but then while the missile is traveling my opponent simply snapshots me with APFSDS (one that works, unlike mine), and I'm dead before my missile hits.

Armor on this thing is also quite lacking, it's good against 7.7 stuff and good against conventional 105mm HEAT rounds with around 400mm pen, but that's it. All APFSDS will slice through you like butter, and at 8.7 and above that's pretty much what everyone is using. Also the missiles you face, like the ones on the Type 89, M901, or choppers... they have way too much penetration for you to handle.

I'd say it's a pretty bad tank for 60€, considering the other options you can get for the same price. If you want russian tanks no-matter-what, getting the T-55AM-1 could still worth it, as (even being as lackluster as it is) it's still the best tank you have below BR 9.0.

 

The T-55A I just don't get, no idea why it is after the T-62, as it's obviously inferior to it. It's okay as a 2nd backup MBT, and thanks to the lower weight it probably has the best mobility you get at this BR, but otherwise it's really just a "meh" tank. Basically it's the same as the T-55AM-1, but without the armor that at least deflects 105mm HEAT, and without the ATGMs. It got no armor, not a single decent projectile, nothing, just crap.

 

The T-62 finally has a slightly better gun, with an additional -1° depression, better penetration, though at the price of even slower reload. It also has no access to smoke grenades and smoke shells, which doesn't make any sense... It's a good 1st backup to the T-55AM-1, but that's about it... Doesn't really bring anything to the table, no ATGM, no armor, no mobility improvement, nothing.

 

Then you have the BMP-2 which kind of works, but the mobility is really messed up, it's a lot slower than it's supposed to be. I actually have a squadron mate who drove a BMP-1 in our army and said it's a lot more mobile than how it is in the game. He just laughed at even the T-55AM-1 being faster than it, or just as fast, most of the time.

Also I don't really get why it had to have the autocannon's penetration nerfed, it really needed that extra 20mm that they just took away. Other light tanks still have around 100mm pen on their autocannons, not to mention many 8.0 SPAAs, so why the F couldn't the BMP... The 4 ATGMs you get are pretty easy to chew through too, and after that you're pretty much screwed with your nerfed gun.

 

Then finally for your 8.7 lineup you got the Shilka, which is again different than whatever other nations get. You do have a higher rate of fire, but lower caliber and - though the stat cards don't say it anywhere - I feel like lower muzzle velocity as well. It's kind of like a spray and pray AA, where you just try to get as many bullets in the sky as possible then hope for the best, as it's quite inaccurate and the bullets don't do much unless many of them hit... Not to mention the radar sucks too, has a lot narrower detection radius than most 8.0 SPAA (like Gepard clones for example).

For some stupid reason the penetration is also very very low on this one, less than half of what other SPAAs get, so you can't really utilize it as a light tank... Especially since the mobility is pretty 'meh' too. The Gepard I mentioned is just superior in every way, yet sits at the same BR... again, that's what you always get with the russians...

 

Getting quite a lot frustration from grinding this nation. It might have been OP once, russian bias at all, but with all the new **** they introduced to ground forces in the past years, these soviet tanks really struggle now...

Edited by Turenkarn
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if it makes you feel better, I'm joining you in the Soviet grind. Currently running T-62, Obj 906, BMP-1, and Zsu-57 LOL.

 

Just got burned out on the Abrams/US so figured it would be a good change of pace. Plus I just love the Soviet MBTs (look kind of like big angry bugs) so figured I'd try to grind up to the T-80s.

 

I played three matches last night for three wins (one with a 500% boost) so got "parts" and "FPE" on most of the lineup. Stock tanks are just tragic.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Well I've been grinding with a 8.7 lineup for quite a while now, since progress slows down a lot at Rank VI... and yeah, doesn't get any better. I often finish in the top 3 in my team, although many of those are matches we lose...

 

Very good summary of the Soviet Tier 6 tree, that I vehemently agree with.

 

Honestly I feel that T-55A should be 8.0 while T-55AM-1 and Obj 685 at 8.3. They are completely outclassed by everything at 8.7, not to mention 9.0, in every parameter. Armor doesn't work, mobility is average, gun handling is abysmal, ammo is laughable at best.

 

To make the situation even more ridiculous GER (who else, of course) now has a casemate with 50 hp/ton (highest in game) and two L44 cannons (with 10.0 ammo) at mere 8.3... As if that tree wasn't ridiculous enough...

 

T-55AM-1 was the worst Tier 6 premium until the Chinese T-62 and it sparked so much outrage on dev server among those who bought it that mods started summarily locking down all threads.

 

19 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Then you have the BMP-2 which kind of works, but the mobility is really messed up, it's a lot slower than it's supposed to be. I actually have a squadron mate who drove a BMP-1 in our army and said it's a lot more mobile than how it is in the game.

 

Agreed.

 

The problem of BMP-2 ammo extends to BMP-3 as well and that poor pathetic mess sits at 9.0.... Honestly at this point Gaijin are just pulling numbers for Soviet stuff out of their ases. 3UBR8 wasn't this bad and Gaijin completely ignores the existence of 3UBR11 ammo. Not to mention the complely unrealistic, unnecessary and blatantly malicious nerf of it's ATGM reload time while all other ATGM and recoilless rifle vehicles from other nations run around with completely idiotically unrealistically fast reload times, especially when some of them would be out of combat for MINUTES while their crew has to go OUTSIDE and the vehicle is completely helpless.

 

Problem is, BMP is not the only Soviet vehicle that is nerfed in performane in game, the issue is particularly notable with planes. Just look at I-16 for example the roll rate, that thing could twirl so fast your head could spin while in WT it's pathetic. That goes doubly for biplanes. MiG-15 is even worse offender, that plane was the reason US had to develop the Sabre, but it's so utterly horrible in WT... It simply won't roll, it won't turn vertically. I have 15Bis in DCS and there it's performance is much improved.

 

It gets even worse. Yes, it can.

 

Yak-15/17. They're nothing but Yak-3 with a jet engine and even less ammo. They still have the same wing-rip speed of 720kmh which means they will rip themselves apart in level flight before you can even reach top speed that the engine affords. And to make matters worse, not only do they have really pathetic and unworkable ammo count, but high BR and quite high repair costs.

 

There is an even more laughable plane.
IL-28 and 28Ish. They actually had a top speed of around 900kmh, even stat cards say so. Problem? Your wings will rip at 845kmh (which they can only achieve in a dive).... Well before the claimed top speed.

 

I honestly don't know whether Gaijin are so bloody lazy in their creation of Soviet vehicles to screw up like this, or they simply don't care if it's Soviet vehicle that's made wrongly (these vehicles have been like this from the start for years and never fixed) or whether these are intentional nerfs to keep Soviets down. I wouldn't put it past them to do the last one due to pressure from other communities with their anti-Soviet and Russophobic hatred and Gaijin's documented past with appeasing them and catering to them.

 

19 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Then finally for your 8.7 lineup you got the Shilka, which is again different than whatever other nations get.

 

I've done a lot of testing of 8.0 radar SPAA once I got them and Shilka turned out to be the worst of the lot. The issue is then compounded by the BS of US M247 being a mere 8.0 with radar guidance and proximity shells. It's basically an American Otomatic just without apfsds round and could easily be 9.0.

 

There was also APDS ammo for the Shilka, I think made by Polish, but of course we don't get it.

 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

 

Honestly I feel that T-55A should be 8.0 while T-55AM-1 and Obj 685 at 8.3. They are completely outclassed by everything at 8.7, not to mention 9.0, in every parameter. Armor doesn't work, mobility is average, gun handling is abysmal, ammo is laughable at best.

 

To make the situation even more ridiculous GER (who else, of course) now has a casemate with 50 hp/ton (highest in game) and two L44 cannons (with 10.0 ammo) at mere 8.3... As if that tree wasn't ridiculous enough...

 

T-55AM-1 was the worst Tier 6 premium until the Chinese T-62 and it sparked so much outrage on dev server among those who bought it that mods started summarily locking down all threads.

 

(snip)

 

I've done a lot of testing of 8.0 radar SPAA once I got them and Shilka turned out to be the worst of the lot. The issue is then compounded by the BS of US M247 being a mere 8.0 with radar guidance and proximity shells. It's basically an American Otomatic just without apfsds round and could easily be 9.0.

 

There was also APDS ammo for the Shilka, I think made by Polish, but of course we don't get it.

 

 

Hey Jack (I don't say "Hi Jack" anymore due to that unfortunate incident I had at the airport some years ago)...was in a battle with you the other day. IIRC, I did terrible as usual, LOL.

 

I was considering a purchase of the T-55-AM, but at 8.7 it seems unjustifiable. Will just maybe grind out the T-55A and play it with the T-62 and T-10M. The path from where I am to the T-72 seems so long, never mind the stock grind that awaits once you get there :/

And yes, the M247 is amazing. Except for long-range helicopters it is absolutely dominant over CAS, I love it.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MattS93 said:

 

Hey Jack (I don't say "Hi Jack" anymore due to that unfortunate incident I had at the airport some years ago)...

 

Okay, I'm curious... :D

 

2 hours ago, MattS93 said:

was in a battle with you the other day. IIRC, I did terrible as usual, LOL.

 

Sorry, I didn't see you, I usually don't check other players. xD What BR?

 

2 hours ago, MattS93 said:

I was considering a purchase of the T-55-AM, but at 8.7 it seems unjustifiable.

 

It's not worth it. I bought it pre-order with Mi-24D. One of the purchases I regreted most in WT, a waste of money, both of them. It's better to talisman a BMP or 906 instead (that's what I'm gonna do in China: talisman the BMP and then ZTZ59D instead of buying T-62). Cheaper, better BR and faster (good for getting cap RP). Maybe even better survivability due to speed and autocannon.

 

2 hours ago, MattS93 said:

Will just maybe grind out the T-55A and play it with the T-62 and T-10M.

 

I retired T-10M for good. I tried using it during the past few months, but I'd just die every single time OHK to darts. All that armor just to ruin mobility but offer no protection, ammo everywhere around the crew, easily penned through front or side for apfsds, atrocious reload and gun handling... Hell, even HVG can one-shot it with a snapshot.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

Okay, I'm curious... :D

 

Haha, just a joke. But I did one time say "Hi Jack" to a colleague at the airport and we both looked at each other like "Oops". 

 

16 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

Sorry, I didn't see you, I usually don't check other players. xD What BR?

 

Would've been US 10.3 for me.

 

16 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

 

It's not worth it. I bought it pre-order with Mi-24D. One of the purchases I regreted most in WT, a waste of money, both of them. It's better to talisman a BMP or 906 instead (that's what I'm gonna do in China: talisman the BMP and then ZTZ59D instead of buying T-62). Cheaper, better BR and faster (good for getting cap RP). Maybe even better survivability due to speed and autocannon.

 

Sad to hear that. If you can believe it, I regret spending the money on the XM-1.

 

Not that it isn't still good, it's that I bought it when I was on the cusp of getting the real M1s anyway and they raised the BR to 9.3. Since it got 10.3 matches all the time, there was no point in playing it for fun and grinding with the MBT-70 and XM-803 as I had planned (just went right to Full Abrams).

 

Now it's just a very expen$ive deep backup to my top tier lineup (cheap on spawn points and repair SL of course).

 

16 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

 

I retired T-10M for good. I tried using it during the past few months, but I'd just die every single time OHK to darts. All that armor just to ruin mobility but offer no protection, ammo everywhere around the crew, easily penned through front or side for apfsds, atrocious reload and gun handling... Hell, even HVG can one-shot it with a snapshot.

 

Ouch that makes me sad because the T-10M is one of the sexiest ground machines of all time LOL. I'm researching it now enroute the T-64s/T-80s...have to buy it regardless, but not sure if I will even bother crewing it.

 

It does have the last of the epic big APCBC shells so maybe I'll play it a little just for the memes.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

I've done a lot of testing of 8.0 radar SPAA once I got them and Shilka turned out to be the worst of the lot. The issue is then compounded by the BS of US M247 being a mere 8.0 with radar guidance and proximity shells. It's basically an American Otomatic just without apfsds round and could easily be 9.0.

 

There was also APDS ammo for the Shilka, I think made by Polish, but of course we don't get it.

 

Yeah, what I gathered with the Shilka by playing it some more, the problem really seems to be the ammo. It has very low penetration, which I honestly don't get... I mean if other SPAA like the Gepard or the Marksman (or pretty much anything with the 35mm Oerlikon) is allowed to have 132mm penetration and able to easily kill all light tanks, and from the sides most MBTs as well, then why shouldn't the Shilka be able to do the same? It has nothing on the other SPAAs, it's radar is worse, it's slow (well the Marksman and the M247 are slow too but they're on armored MBT hulls, whereas the Shilka is all paper), it doesn't have missiles or anything... It just has far worse ammo than the others, with no positive that would counter this negative. That's balance for you...

 

Back on the ammo I'm now fairly certain the low penetration is affecting our AA capabilities as well. If you look at the penetration values it gets at jet engagement ranges (like above 1.5 km), and the pen against angles (you rarely ever hit a plane at 0°), you can easily see what's wrong... No wonder that by my initial experience I said: "the bullets don't do much unless many of them hit". Yup, that's exactly what happens, even if you somehow manage to hit a plane or heli at long range, your ammo barely does any damage there. All you get is just "Hit"s and (if you were close enough to see) the familiar "sparkling" that you experience with 7,62mm aircraft guns in a dogfight. You might hit the target, but do no damage.

 

Meanwhile, even at range the Gepard only needs to land 1-2 successful hits and the target just rips apart... No funny Hits with no damage... And yeah, then there is the M247 with the timed-fuse HE shell...  Again, that's balance for you...

 

Even if for some unfathomable reason they want the Shilka to be the only SPAA that completely sucks against ground targets, at least they should hack the ammo to not lose the little penetration it has at range... so at least it could shoot planes and helis down...

Edited by Turenkarn
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been grinding my BMP-2

honestly, the mobility isn't its problem. It's problem is the ridiculous hullbreak mechanic that will get me killed if a high-energy round even brushes my optic plate

also, tanks shouldb't be able to be hullbroken on the engine at all, because it would absorb the energy, rather than it bending and flexing the hull instead. This applies mostly to the BMP series, as it feels like the most fragile tank series in the game.

 

just switched to grinding america from scratch as I just got the Merk mk 2B in the latest event (planning on being the very thing I swore to destroy :P)

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/01/2020 at 03:31, Turenkarn said:

 

Yeah, what I gathered with the Shilka by playing it some more, the problem really seems to be the ammo. It has very low penetration, which I honestly don't get... I mean if other SPAA like the Gepard or the Marksman (or pretty much anything with the 35mm Oerlikon) is allowed to have 132mm penetration and able to easily kill all light tanks, and from the sides most MBTs as well, then why shouldn't the Shilka be able to do the same? It has nothing on the other SPAAs, it's radar is worse, it's slow (well the Marksman and the M247 are slow too but they're on armored MBT hulls, whereas the Shilka is all paper), it doesn't have missiles or anything... It just has far worse ammo than the others, with no positive that would counter this negative. That's balance for you...

 

Back on the ammo I'm now fairly certain the low penetration is affecting our AA capabilities as well. If you look at the penetration values it gets at jet engagement ranges (like above 1.5 km), and the pen against angles (you rarely ever hit a plane at 0°), you can easily see what's wrong... No wonder that by my initial experience I said: "the bullets don't do much unless many of them hit". Yup, that's exactly what happens, even if you somehow manage to hit a plane or heli at long range, your ammo barely does any damage there. All you get is just "Hit"s and (if you were close enough to see) the familiar "sparkling" that you experience with 7,62mm aircraft guns in a dogfight. You might hit the target, but do no damage.

 

Meanwhile, even at range the Gepard only needs to land 1-2 successful hits and the target just rips apart... No funny Hits with no damage... And yeah, then there is the M247 with the timed-fuse HE shell...  Again, that's balance for you...

 

Even if for some unfathomable reason they want the Shilka to be the only SPAA that completely sucks against ground targets, at least they should hack the ammo to not lose the little penetration it has at range... so at least it could shoot planes and helis down...

 

Shilka just seems like a Soviet M163 then? I've only test-driven it and that is the impression I get...

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/01/2020 at 00:46, MattS93 said:

 

Haha, just a joke. But I did one time say "Hi Jack" to a colleague at the airport and we both looked at each other like "Oops". 

 

Lol. Yeah, I can imagine that being a risky thing to say at an airport. lol

 

On 28/01/2020 at 00:46, MattS93 said:

Ouch that makes me sad because the T-10M is one of the sexiest ground machines of all time LOL.

 

Yeah, it was gorgeous. Then T-80BV and T-80U came onto the scene. <3 Now T-10 hides in the corner and cries over it's wrinkles, laugh lines, cellulite and stretched skin

 

7 hours ago, MattS93 said:

 

Shilka just seems like a Soviet M163 then? I've only test-driven it and that is the impression I get...

 

Nah, M163 is better: superior mobility, better ammo, laser gatling, swimming ability, much smaller size (can hide). I would say the radar gives the Shilka an edge, but it's so bad it's useless most of the time; and the volume of fire is better, but then the ammo simply sparks or does no damage.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

Yeah, it was gorgeous. Then T-80BV and T-80U came onto the scene. <3 Now T-10 hides in the corner and cries over it's wrinkles, laugh lines, cellulite and stretched skin

 

I'm working my way toward the "angry bug" tanks as fast as I can but being the first time in awhile that I'm looking forward to something, the RP seem to be accumulating slowly. Thankfully I've got a premium account going, can't imagine the grind being half this speed.

 

Fortunately the T-62 is a surprisingly fun tank to play, for my sniping playstyle anyway. I also one-shot three tanks in quick succession in the desert with the glorious APHE on the Obj 906...was not expecting that LOL.

 

 

Quote

 

Nah, M163 is better: superior mobility, better ammo, laser gatling, swimming ability, much smaller size (can hide). I would say the radar gives the Shilka an edge, but it's so bad it's useless most of the time; and the volume of fire is better, but then the ammo simply sparks or does no damage.

 

That's sad, because the Shilka looks pretty badass too.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MattS93 said:

That's sad, because the Shilka looks pretty badass too.

 

Yeah even the M163's gatling has more penetration than the Shilka, and maybe even higher rate of fire too. Not sure, depends on how the stat card should be understood, as Shilka got 850 rounds / minute, but I can't tell if that's a total, or per barrel? Anyhow the gatling has 3000 rpm.

 

As for the radar, that's really bad on the Shilka. Scans very slowly, and only in a narrow, frontal arc. You can switch it to do a 360° turn, but then again it moves so slow that the match ends before it does a full turn. I rarely ever get anything spotted by the Shilka's radar, it's just weak, I have to resort to visual spotting like with old SPAA.

Once you found a target it can still lock on to it and you get the lead indicator... but you can do the same with the M163 as well, as that thing has a targeting radar too (just not a scanning one). I agree M163 is superior, even though that's only a secondary SPAA for the US... Let's not talk about the M247 with the fast scanning radar and timed fuse HE shells...

 

The lead indicator is weird btw, it often feels false. Like, I shoot at a target that is flying relatively high (so no radar noise from terrain), and doesn't change course (doesn't notice me shooting), yet somehow my Shilka manages to miss all shots, even though I fired half my magazine right in the lead indicator circle... Not sure if othe SPAA like the Gepard suffers from this issue too, but it can be quite annoying. You do everything right, you remain unnoticed, yet you still miss.

Edited by Turenkarn
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

 

The lead indicator is weird btw, it often feels false. Like, I shoot at a target that is flying relatively high (so no radar noise from terrain), and doesn't change course (doesn't notice me shooting), yet somehow my Shilka manages to miss all shots, even though I fired half my magazine right in the lead indicator circle... Not sure if othe SPAA like the Gepard suffers from this issue too, but it can be quite annoying. You do everything right, you remain unnoticed, yet you still miss.

 

I've found the lead indicators to be a little sketchy in general...don't know if the Shilka is particularly bad since I haven't played it outside of test drive.

 

I have developed a kind of technique where I spread my fire around a little ahead of and behind the circle along the target's axis of movement, which seems to work well. 

 

Good luck with it! I've got so much left to grind in Tier VI that it might be different by the time I get one LOL.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MattS93 said:

 

I've found the lead indicators to be a little sketchy in general...don't know if the Shilka is particularly bad since I haven't played it outside of test drive.

 

I have developed a kind of technique where I spread my fire around a little ahead of and behind the circle along the target's axis of movement, which seems to work well. 

 

Good luck with it! I've got so much left to grind in Tier VI that it might be different by the time I get one LOL.

this is really odd, because the Shilka is arguably the best and most reliable SPAAG system of the cold war. Some are still in use today upgraded with SAMs and improved RADAR. The M247 is a piece of American propaganda. That thing never saw actual service because it was a scam. Generals were bribed to give favourable reports and facts were doctored to make the M247 almost 6 times as effective as it was IRL. The tracking RADAR was so poor, that there are stories of it locking on to the commander's podium with its main guns pointed at the five star generals it was supposed to be showing off to. 

What we have in war thunder was the lies that the company building it sent the American top brass and is one of the most famous examples of bribery and corruption in the defence industry.

The fact that that piece of trash is better than the most reliable SPAAG ever made is just an insult to the real world veterans of both vehicles

for more information, here is the video by Matsimus describing the M247 Sargent York

 

  • Upvote 2
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, GoddePro said:

this is really odd, because the Shilka is arguably the best and most reliable SPAAG system of the cold war. Some are still in use today upgraded with SAMs and improved RADAR. The M247 is a piece of American propaganda. That thing never saw actual service because it was a scam. Generals were bribed to give favourable reports and facts were doctored to make the M247 almost 6 times as effective as it was IRL. The tracking RADAR was so poor, that there are stories of it locking on to the commander's podium with its main guns pointed at the five star generals it was supposed to be showing off to. 

What we have in war thunder was the lies that the company building it sent the American top brass and is one of the most famous examples of bribery and corruption in the defence industry.

The fact that that piece of trash is better than the most reliable SPAAG ever made is just an insult to the real world veterans of both vehicles

for more information, here is the video by Matsimus describing the M247 Sargent York

 

 

 

100% correct. That said, the M247 is a super fun vehicle to play in WT fantasyland!

 

I don't get too upset anymore about differences from reality...but the Shilka should be very effective in game, so if it's not then that is a problem for sure.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GoddePro said:

this is really odd, because the Shilka is arguably the best and most reliable SPAAG system of the cold war. Some are still in use today upgraded with SAMs and improved RADAR.

 

Shilka is legendary. And not because Pentagon and Hollywood pumped millions into scripts and propaganda to make it look awesome, but because it proved itself on every possible battlefield, even in Syria (though there against terrorists and their ground assets instead of planes). It lies only on laurels it earned itself.

 

4 minutes ago, GoddePro said:

The M247 is a piece of American propaganda.

 

I am almost at the point where my automatic response would be "What ISN'T American propaganda?".

 

4 minutes ago, GoddePro said:

That thing never saw actual service because it was a scam. Generals were bribed to give favourable reports and facts were doctored to make the M247 almost 6 times as effective as it was IRL. The tracking RADAR was so poor, that there are stories of it locking on to the commander's podium with its main guns pointed at the five star generals it was supposed to be showing off to. 

 

Lol, I had a very evil thought for a second xD :P

 

4 minutes ago, GoddePro said:

What we have in war thunder was the lies that the company building it sent the American top brass and is one of the most famous examples of bribery and corruption in the defence industry.

 

Am not surprised by MIC anymore, especially when in bed with Generals. Pentagon Wars is a fantastic way to open your eyes. I was blown away when I found it it wasn't a parody comedy movie, but a serious movie made after real events. Then life and well-informed friends served even more truths.

  

20 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Let's not talk about the M247 with the fast scanning radar and timed fuse HE shells...

 

That thing is just broken at 8.0. M247 should honestly be 9.0 at the very least. The only thing that separates it from Otomatic level of BS is the APFSDS that lolpens even the most armored tanks in game (except of course 2A5 lol).

 

On 28/01/2020 at 09:31, Turenkarn said:

Back on the ammo I'm now fairly certain the low penetration is affecting our AA capabilities as well. If you look at the penetration values it gets at jet engagement ranges (like above 1.5 km), and the pen against angles (you rarely ever hit a plane at 0°), you can easily see what's wrong... No wonder that by my initial experience I said: "the bullets don't do much unless many of them hit". Yup, that's exactly what happens, even if you somehow manage to hit a plane or heli at long range, your ammo barely does any damage there. All you get is just "Hit"s and (if you were close enough to see) the familiar "sparkling" that you experience with 7,62mm aircraft guns in a dogfight. You might hit the target, but do no damage.

 

I've also been having really serious issues with Shilka's shells just sparking on planes or simply not flying over 2km.

 

The biggest irony is that for the longest time Shilka had the most stupendous grind imaginable, comparable to 9.0+ MBTs that perform great. It took Gaijin literally years to fix that. I'm damn sure it would've taken them only a fraction of that time if it was a German or Murrican vehicle.

 

 

-

 

Bottom line: Shilka is worst, could use a lower BR. And ZSU-57-2 NEEDS to get their proximity shells (that it has in Chinese tree).

  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

And ZSU-57-2 NEEDS to get their proximity shells (that it has in Chinese tree).

 

That would be great...as it stands, it's a somewhat effective tank destroyer due to the fast turret rotation but that is about it :/

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MattS93 said:

 

That would be great...as it stands, it's a somewhat effective tank destroyer due to the fast turret rotation but that is about it :/

 

It takes just one shell to hit the turret and it's out, so yeah, it really does need the shell to make it relevant, to actually be useful as AA. But that still shouldn't "earn" it a BR raise as it did in China tree. It's a T-54 chassis with significantly less armor and is placed at same BR as radar spaa, especially BS radar spaa like M247.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.