Turenkarn

USSR tree grinding - what happened to it?

1 hour ago, ivica70 said:

I am playing my Russian High Tier setup the last days to finalize the grind of the T-72A. Although I possess the Ka-50, Tunguska, Mig-19, BMP2 and T-55AM (also T-62 in my setup) it is very hard to counter the American versatility in vehicles. American players have by far the most vehicles that fit the meta. Every time you take one out of them the next appears which is almost as good as the one you knocked out. This is not biased talking, because I have also American, French, German and Italian High Tier setups (sometimes I lose 5 games in a row I switch to my American setup to grab a win). At the moment it is very demanding to play the Russians in High Tier, as one said here before, sometimes just the good Ka-50 players are carrying the Russian team. The grind therefore is also a pain in the A***. I grinded the medium tank line to get to the T-72 and have a lot of tanks to grind to get to the only competitive Russian medium at the moment, the T-80U... 

 

This. Not to mention if you kill an M1A2 he still has 5, FIVE, more Abramses to fall back on (not to mention backup for that M1A2), and all the other excellent vehicles, best CAS in game, best helicopter tree, best SPAA, etc. US has no bad vehicles in top tier. Yes some are mediocre, but not one outright bad like T-64A.

 

Otoh, what do you have? T-80B, T-64, inexistant CAS, mediocre fighters, so-so AA... Only good thing above 7.3 in soviet tree is BMP-2 and even that is nerfed compared to NATO what with no thermals (that all NATO 8.3 IFVs have) and ammo that got hit with 20% pen nerf recently. Then there are the Germans with their endless parade of Leopards L44 and G.91 with ATGMs and best choppers taken from both sides, etc.

Edited by jackTIGR
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32 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

 

This. Not to mention if you kill an M1A2 he still has 5, FIVE, more Abramses to fall back on (not to mention backup for that M1A2), and all the other excellent vehicles, best CAS in game, best helicopter tree, best SPAA, etc. US has no bad vehicles in top tier. Yes some are mediocre, but not one outright bad like T-64A.

 

Otoh, what do you have? T-80B, T-64, inexistant CAS, mediocre fighters, so-so AA... Only good thing above 7.3 in soviet tree is BMP-2 and even that is nerfed compared to NATO what with no thermals (that all NATO 8.3 IFVs have) and ammo that got hit with 20% pen nerf recently. Then there are the Germans with their endless parade of Leopards L44 and G.91 with ATGMs and best choppers taken from both sides, etc.

 

And the German Mig-21? Today the German Mig-21 shot down my Ka-50... :crying:

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I have to give it to OP;

   I am GFAB player and maxed USSR tonks before these current pizza-delivery systems, and thus have a bit biased opinion.

 

All the way until T-62 you YOLO the enemy since you can not snipe for xxxxxxx your life, while most of the enemy have Lazor-accurate guns that can and will decimate you from range if still. You will need to know the terrain -because turret traverse-, the reload of the enemy and use this knowledge together with the agility and hard suspension of USSR tonks to either get your hull to raise or go down while doing some cracy :curious: manouvers! You will need to sacrifice many goats babys... er, just sacrifice, everything! so this comes from your spine.

   And remember, you mostly count on flanking shots, because your pen& accuracy are so low, to deliver those juicy mini-nukes... Okay, I'll admit it, sometimes shell normalization works wonders

 

After reaching top ranks on USSR, the game changes a bit since you can now snipe but think twice if you think you will pen your opponent in hull-down F2F encounters! Just use the, by now developed, berserker-ability to get flanks or you can relay on HE shells and just plant one above enemys hull into their turret... with a bit of luck, you get the same effect that HESH has against you and you detonate their ammorack/fuel tank with shrapnel

 

It was different game before lol-penning shells, when KV-2 was skillbased vehicle for killing multitude of Mauses but try to hang on there in this current meta :noob:

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12 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

Personally I'll take with a big grain of doubt everything said about vehicles by someone who only plays AB where you have the pen indicators, UFO vehicles and all kinds of helping hands, crutches and other BS. RB is completely different from AB, from team composition (less fair than in AB), to unbalanced BS like extremely low tier thermals, to very significant differences in vehicle performance, turret traverses, etc.

 

Exactly. It's not even worth talking to him cause his perspective is completely skewed what with him only playing a mode that is made to make all vehicles as equal as possible and

suppresses defficiencies and disadvantages that are obvious in RB.

You could take a huge grain of doubt, as far as I am concerned there is no problem with Russian grind in AB.

AB just makes a good vehicle better, it won't make a bad vehicle good.

 

14 hours ago, Pelegai said:

And what has that exactly to do with the Russian powercreep/ grind ?.. 

 

I never have to wait longer then maybe 1minute at max on the EU/US server (although EU servers is way harder to play imo, more stomps)

About as much as BR compression has to do with this thread.

On a personal note, 1 minute is kinda long, I like it when I find matches under 20s.

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36 minutes ago, ArthurWood said:

You could take a huge grain of doubt, as far as I am concerned there is no problem with Russian grind in AB.

AB just makes a good vehicle better, it won't make a bad vehicle good.

 

About as much as BR compression has to do with this thread.

On a personal note, 1 minute is kinda long, I like it when I find matches under 20s.

You take the huge difference between ab and rb with a huge grain of salt...so do i with your clearly biased view, try it...it may open your eyes...

Edited by Pelegai
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9 minutes ago, Pelegai said:

You take the huge difference between ab and rb with a huge grain of salt...so do i with your clearly biased view, try it...it may open your eyes...

What is biased here? Everything I said is first hand experience.

Would my own stats support that? I mean heck, the toughest opponent I could met at low BR is a T-34 and Sherman. On the other end of the scale at 5.3-5.7 the best vehicle for me to play is a T-34-85 and everything else is subpar.

It's a level playing field no matter AB or RB, sure someone has stabilizers and better gun depression and you don't but why complain? It's reality and nothing that could not be overcome with playing better, you can't play better, then stop playing.

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I don't see problem here. You claim that soviets are good in AB and I will take your word for it. At same time me and others are saying that after 5.3 soviets tanks are struggling in RB. Since soviets don't have 6.7 lineup everything from 5.7 and up gets dragged to that 6.7 black hole where they are useless. T-44-100 sits at 7.0 while its direct competitors like panther 2 are at 6.7. IS-3 is 7.3 while tiger 2 with 105 got dropped to 6.7. Jagdpanther and Ferdi are 6.3 now. Jagdtiger got dropped to 6.7 while object 268 still sits at 7.3. Waffletrager is at 5.7 while its carbon copy in sov line SU-100P is at 6.7! Other sov TD are just as overtiered. There is no AA to speak off until shilka at 8.0. No CAS at all after Su-6 at 5.3. Like no CAS plane all at way to 10.3. NONE!  BMP-1 at 7.3 is nice but you don't have anything to pair it with since IS-3 is joke at that br. T-54 at 7.7 is way worse then anything else. At 8.3 we get T-55A, T-62, BMP-2 and obj 906. That would be nice lineup if not for black hole of 8.7 thermal premiums that club everyrhing. 9.0 and up is graveyard for soviet tanks :burned:

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it really amazes me how many people think their is russian bias in this game after all these years on top of it there are some Youtubers still promoting this kind of stuff 

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13 minutes ago, *sageman901 said:

it really amazes me how many people think their is russian bias in this game after all these years on top of it there are some Youtubers still promoting this kind of stuff 

 

To be honest russian tanks were op at the start of ground forces back in 2014, but since then germans got br handouts, us tanks arrived at generous br, brits arrived with apds and stabs, ita meme pizza carts came etc... Now is 2020 and soviets still don't have CAS, still don't have AA, still don't have 6.7 tanks, one of the most popular br in game!

Edited by Zoky
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2 hours ago, ArthurWood said:

What is biased here? Everything I said is first hand experience.

Would my own stats support that? I mean heck, the toughest opponent I could met at low BR is a T-34 and Sherman. On the other end of the scale at 5.3-5.7 the best vehicle for me to play is a T-34-85 and everything else is subpar.

It's a level playing field no matter AB or RB, sure someone has stabilizers and better gun depression and you don't but why complain? It's reality and nothing that could not be overcome with playing better, you can't play better, then stop playing.

Wow....i wished i had your closed mind setting, life in general is so much easier if you cant see things from other perspectives, i envy you for that matter...

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4 hours ago, ArthurWood said:

AB just makes a good vehicle better, it won't make a bad vehicle good.

 

That is exactly where you're wrong, and probably all the other disagreements everyone has here with you originate from this single incorrect assumption.

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1 hour ago, ArthurWood said:

Yeah, I wish I had a lot of other things, well I'll leave you guys my way of playing the game:

 

If the vehicle has no exceeding qualities over it's opponents = stop using it.

Ok...abandon the russian tree then in RB? And hop in the american tree, no thanks..

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On 15/01/2020 at 01:50, ArthurWood said:

BR compression is part of the problem, the bigger issue is lack of players.

Just look at how many places Gaijin splits players:

  1. AB Planes
  2. AB Tanks
  3. AB Ships
  4. RB Planes
  5. RB Tanks
  6. RB Ships
  7. Simulator battles
  8. Assault Air
  9. Assault Tank
  10. &Other events and tournaments

That's a lot of places to separate them, add in relatively early time of day and finding a match at certain BR takes a lot of time in AB and especially other modes.

Having only 30-50k players for all this IMO is just too little. There is also a lack of incentive to play the lesser vehicles, things are starting to devolve into only certain vehicles getting played because all the others are not worth it, they are not competitive or fun to use.

I remember when War Thunder had 70k and even passed 100k players online in-game, those were fun times.

Maybe if AB didn't have such OP crew skills less people would play it and seed into other modes. 

 

AB ships don't even make sense either right now. 

 

 

Edited by DaffanZ
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I'd like to give my perspective as a new player who, to his loss, chose Soviets. I'm doing RB at 3.7-4.0 at this point, basically 76mm armed T-34s everywhere. They are useless against everything. They even struggle with side armor because they do no damage. I can shoot a StuG from the side and it's even odds whether he'll win because he can turn and shoot before I can reload. Frontal engagements basically cannot be won against any German tank of BR 3 or more. The balance is completely off because your max 1942 Soviet tanks are put against late war Germans with probably tungsten ammo on all of them. I'm having a better kill ratio with American Stuarts against these very same StuGs and Pz IVs.

 

And this is the point where the grind starts slowing down, so you're stuck with autoloss garbage. I tried to offset this by buying an SMK because it was cool and some videos said it was good. But no, it's far worse than any of the T-34s, basically abandoned content because there's no way any developer has even paid attention to that "premium" tank in years.

 

So in sum, based on the Soviets, this game is worthless and clear that the developers don't care about the experience at all. They just want you to become a whale and pay your way to top tier.

 

edit: oh and a pet peeve. Zis 12 must be bugged. I haven't hit an airplane with it, ever. Not a single pip of damage after dozens of spawns. Meanwhile, I have downed aircraft with a main gun and just about all of the AA mounts on regular tanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by armis5738
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3 hours ago, armis5738 said:

I'd like to give my perspective as a new player who, to his loss, chose Soviets. I'm doing RB at 3.7-4.0 at this point, basically 76mm armed T-34s everywhere. They are useless against everything. They even struggle with side armor because they do no damage. I can shoot a StuG from the side and it's even odds whether he'll win because he can turn and shoot before I can reload. Frontal engagements basically cannot be won against any German tank of BR 3 or more. The balance is completely off because your max 1942 Soviet tanks are put against late war Germans with probably tungsten ammo on all of them. I'm having a better kill ratio with American Stuarts against these very same StuGs and Pz IVs.

 

And this is the point where the grind starts slowing down, so you're stuck with autoloss garbage. I tried to offset this by buying an SMK because it was cool and some videos said it was good. But no, it's far worse than any of the T-34s, basically abandoned content because there's no way any developer has even paid attention to that "premium" tank in years.

 

So in sum, based on the Soviets, this game is worthless and clear that the developers don't care about the experience at all. They just want you to become a whale and pay your way to top tier.

 

edit: oh and a pet peeve. Zis 12 must be bugged. I haven't hit an airplane with it, ever. Not a single pip of damage after dozens of spawns. Meanwhile, I have downed aircraft with a main gun and just about all of the AA mounts on regular tanks.

If you want to grind out of 4.0+- BR. I'm suggest you using KV-1 tank line. Since at those BR Its armor still hold advantage enough.

While 5.0+- is where you get bigger gun trade with reload rate. Around there meduim tank is decent enough but nothing special. Most heavy tank playstyle is "hit n hide" since they get big gun like 122mm. 

 

Overall the reason why you feel that enemy has stronger tank is because BR compression as many people mention. (it is why your 4.0 tank meet enemy 5.0 tank. which they shouldn't )

 

Yup grinding Soviet might be stuggle. But So does other Nations. (At some point or BR ) .

Premuim vehicles and such are shotcut for grinding in this game.(Of cause it would be money grab just like most online game) It will only worth if you "really" want to grind to top tier.

The reason why i'm keep grind to Soviet Top tier is because i like their Cold war tank. And need Top tier line up to play with Mi-24s. "Not because Soviet is alway fun to play nor easy". Similar reason as i'm grind to USA Top tier tank and Plane.

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On 14. januar 2020 at 22:04, JointtiTonttu said:

or you can relay on HE shells and just plant one above enemys hull into their turret... with a bit of luck, you get the same effect that HESH has against you and you detonate their ammorack/fuel tank with shrapnel

 

I've been reading for the last many years whines by Teabs about how useless HESH is now (and how much Gaijin seems to hate them - hell, when the ATGM-guidance nerfed was announced there was a bunch of them screaming about this being only a UK tank nerf and Gaijin hating UK, even though it affects all nations). Well, I was playing Brits today with a friend and even used HESH and have to wonder what drugs are using those who claim HESH is useless. It still one-shots Soviets as reliably as it did 5 years ago. It's still using the same broken mechanic that OF26 that made those same Brit-fans apoplectic when it was put in game. Honestly, Cent 10 and Vickers could easily be 7.7 cause T-54s at that BR are just garbage compared to the Brits. Today also confirmed why I stopped playing Brits: there is simply no challenge, no struggle; it's too bloody easy, everything gets handed to you on a silver platter almost even more than to GER.

 

You're too lazy to learn weakspots? Here you go, APDS with 6 sec reload at 5.0.

Don't want to stop and aim? Have yourself some cheery stabilizers in Tier 4!

Don't want to bother shooting at a German tank more than once? Why, old chum, we have given a jolly old tweak to the game that makes your jolly old solid shot act like 122mm APHE. You can now reliably one-shot Germans all you want. Honestly whenever I play any QF-17 tank (especially my AC IV) I have easier time killing Panzer 4s with it's Shot Mk.8 than with any T-34. Not to mention at 4.0 in Achilles I've got better pen than a Soviet with his 5.7 T-34.

 

Gaijin of course plays the stupid repair cost game with Brits, instead of making the repair costs normal and uptiering the tanks in question.

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 08:35, ArthurWood said:

You could take a huge grain of doubt, as far as I am concerned there is no problem with Russian grind in AB.

 

And we're talking about RB, which is something that continues to stubbornly elude your understanding. Nobody cares to talk about AB cause we all know the vehicles in AB are just utter BS.

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 08:35, ArthurWood said:

AB just makes a good vehicle better, it won't make a bad vehicle good.

 

Cue in John Cleese guffaws. Yep, sure it won't, Chief!  :D

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 10:44, Zoky said:

I don't see problem here. You claim that soviets are good in AB and I will take your word for it. At same time me and others are saying that after 5.3 soviets tanks are struggling in RB. Since soviets don't have 6.7 lineup everything from 5.7 and up gets dragged to that 6.7 black hole where they are useless. T-44-100 sits at 7.0 while its direct competitors like panther 2 are at 6.7. IS-3 is 7.3 while tiger 2 with 105 got dropped to 6.7. Jagdpanther and Ferdi are 6.3 now. Jagdtiger got dropped to 6.7 while object 268 still sits at 7.3. Waffletrager is at 5.7 while its carbon copy in sov line SU-100P is at 6.7! Other sov TD are just as overtiered. There is no AA to speak off until shilka at 8.0. No CAS at all after Su-6 at 5.3. Like no CAS plane all at way to 10.3. NONE!  BMP-1 at 7.3 is nice but you don't have anything to pair it with since IS-3 is joke at that br. T-54 at 7.7 is way worse then anything else. At 8.3 we get T-55A, T-62, BMP-2 and obj 906. That would be nice lineup if not for black hole of 8.7 thermal premiums that club everyrhing. 9.0 and up is graveyard for soviet tanks :burned:

 

This. So much this.

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 11:15, Zoky said:

To be honest russian tanks were op at the start of ground forces back in 2014,

 

Until Leopard arrived. T-54 vs panther 2 was the last time Soviet top tier was stomping. Leopard 1 was just utterly broken, from armor that would bounce everything in the side to utterly idiotic HEATFS that was so broken it was name cheatfs to mobility like a squirrel on crack to....

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 11:51, Pelegai said:

Wow....i wished i had your closed mind setting, life in general is so much easier if you cant see things from other perspectives, i envy you for that matter...

 

Hehehehe, so true!

 

On 15. januar 2020 at 13:27, ArthurWood said:

If the vehicle has no exceeding qualities over it's opponents = stop using it.

 

Man, it's a good thing you're not a doctor, you would amputate an arm for a twisted finger. What you're saying is basically that Soviet tree should be abandoned instead of fixed. Logic and clear thinking don't seem to be your friends.

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

I can shoot a StuG from the side

 

I had exactly this experience today with Pz 4s. I kept shooting them in the crew compartment from the side and nothing. Where is that broken APHE filled with Russian Bias that has been so complained about? I don't see it anywhere. Every single possible Soviet shell was systematically ruined by Gaijin. German ammo with 69g of TNT does more damage than Soviet ammo with 440g of bigger caliber. You would've had to see it to believe it IRL, but here it's true.

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

and it's even odds whether he'll win because he can turn and shoot before I can reload.

 

And even if you do reload you won't have much chance to do anything since those bloody things seem to have a hidden modifier called "autobounce" when you're facing it from front while he has that magical German 75mm that can pen and one-shot you any time from any angle.

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

Frontal engagements basically cannot be won against any German tank of BR 3 or more. The balance is completely off because your max 1942 Soviet tanks are put against late war Germans with probably tungsten ammo on all of them.

 

Wanna know what's ironic? Ever since I can remember I've been reading Wehraboo crocodile tears and sobbing of "Why am I fighting Cold War tanks in my WW2 machine?! WAAAAA!!!" and they keep doing it even today, but if you look at it you discover just the opposite. You've got Italian vehicles from 1980s starting in Tier 2 fighting tanks from 30's and slaughtering planes from 20's and 1980's cars armed with 380mm pen SPGs at 6.3 killing Allied tanks from 1943. God forbid Gaijin decides to put the Vespa with recoilless rifle into this game, that thing would be the most broken addition ever.

 

German experiemental light tanks and casemates from deep in Cold War, both driving like freaking gokarts fitted with Hayabusa engines, are sitting at BR 6.7, again armed with HEATFS and game-breaking mobility.

 

Leopard 1 at same BR as IS-4 that's 20 years older, has no heatfs, no mobility, no gun depression, no gun handling, no.... Leopard 1 from 1960's a whole two steps lower tiered than Soviet heavy tank from 1950s!

 

You've got German heavy vehicles tiered so low they are literally invulnerable to anything enemy at their tiers. You have broken German vehicles like VFW criminally undertiered and left broken with no hull break for months on end. Can anyone imagine the screaming and hatred spewed by German (or US or UK) community if there was a Soviet vehicle like that?

 

German vehicles keep going down in BRs, but when was the last time you saw an older Soviet vehicle go down?

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

I tried to offset this by buying an SMK because it was cool and some videos said it was good.

 

Oh god, I can already see where this is going. Bro, step away from that POS! I tried it again just hours ago, and it's hopeless. Yes, it was fun once, long time ago. A VERY long time ago. When there weren't plenty of enemy vehicles over a BR lower than you who could lolpen you from every direction, that is. Now it's so idiotically overtiered I can't even cry over it anymore, I've run out of tears. I've loved that thing, but it's been useless for so long now.

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

But no, it's far worse than any of the T-34s, basically abandoned content because there's no way any developer has even paid attention to that "premium" tank in years.

 

Pretty much yeah. Only I-153P (oh look, again a Soviet vehicle) is in a worse state - Gaijin actually removed from it the only bullets that actually worked and left only the bullets that are sparking! I could get 3 kills per battle with it once, it was my most played vehicle in game; but now I can't even get one kill cause it's simply not doing any godamn damage!

 

9 hours ago, armis5738 said:

edit: oh and a pet peeve. Zis 12 must be bugged. I haven't hit an airplane with it, ever. Not a single pip of damage after dozens of spawns.

 

Oh, I've hit planes with it. Except it didn't do anything. I saw the puff of the HE shell exploding on the body of a 109 many times, but did it even register? In my dreams only. at this point it's in the same basket as ZSU-75-2: it's a TD, not SPAA.

 

5 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

If you want to grind out of 4.0+- BR. I'm suggest you using KV-1 tank line. Since at those BR Its armor still hold advantage enough.

 

not really. Remember, long German 75mm starting with 3.0, not to mention Marders can lolpen you from any angle. Plus, your mobility is sheet, your gun handling is sheet, you have no gun depression, your ammo is much worse... I've recently tried every single Soviet KV-1 in game, even the premiums, but found them all equally hopeless.

 

The game has progressed, enemies have moved on, gotten new vehicles, more modern guns and ammo, or simply been downtiered from their previous BRs and made KV-1s basically obsolete.

 

5 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

While 5.0+- is where you get bigger gun trade with reload rate.

 

With severely nerfed HE filler. With heavy armor that does nothing but ruins your mobility while not giving any protection. At the same BR as German tanks that can't be one-shotted from front by you, have much better armor that actually works, have 1/3!!! of your reload time, start stock with ammo that is better than the one you have to grind to, actually have a gun depression and handling and their faithful lackeys will swarm your flanks with 1980's armored cars that go 120kmh and have 380mm of pen with their SPGs that they can magically reload from the inside going full speed, while BMP-3 has been nerfed too it's claimed "historical" reload (that nobody can find any reliable documentation claiming it's 38 sec instead of original 12 sec) and their 3.7 SPAA will absolutely shred any plane of yours that attempts to come to your help.

 

5 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

Yup grinding Soviet might be stuggle. But So does other Nations. (At some point or BR ) .

 

Except while with other nations it's, as you said, "at some point or BR", while with Soviets it has become across the entire BR. THAT is why we're angry.

 

5 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

"Not because Soviet is alway fun to play nor easy". Similar reason as i'm grind to USA Top tier tank and Plane.

 

If I wanted easy mode I'd play US, UK or GER. But they're so easy I get bored quickly.

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6 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

not really. Remember, long German 75mm starting with 3.0, not to mention Marders can lolpen you from any angle. Plus, your mobility is sheet, your gun handling is sheet, you have no gun depression, your ammo is much worse...

 

I've recently tried every single Soviet KV-1 in game, even the premiums, but found them all equally hopeless.

 

The game has progressed, enemies have moved on, gotten new vehicles, more modern guns and ammo, or simply been downtiered from their previous BRs and made KV-1s basically obsolete.

 

and their faithful lackeys will swarm your flanks with 1980's armored cars that go 120kmh and have 380mm of pen with their SPGs that they can magically reload from the inside going full speed,

 

while BMP-3 has been nerfed too it's claimed "historical" reload (that nobody can find any reliable documentation claiming it's 38 sec instead of original 12 sec)

 

and their 3.7 SPAA will absolutely shred any plane of yours that attempts to come to your help.

 

 

Except while with other nations it's, as you said, "at some point or BR", while with Soviets it has become across the entire BR. THAT is why we're angry.

 

 

If I wanted easy mode I'd play US, UK or GER. But they're so easy I get bored quickly.

I didn't say it was immute to every things it face and you wouldn't expect it to be like that right ?. If so Jumbo would still be at 4.7 which every one complain because they have a hard time against them.

Most enemy (at same BR or below) would still stuggle with early KV-1 armor .

 

Of cause you wouldn't expect KV-1 to alway be the Top dog forever. Do you ?

Again with BR compression isn't effect only Soviet alone. Look there is 76mm Jumbo face with  6.7 tank that use HEAT or King tiger 2H face with 7.7 MBTs. I'm agree this is a big problem. And they really need to decompression BR soon.

 

Right ? But last time i play is that Soviet "aren't the only one" who have to face Italy armor car from 1980+. Gaijin already show that late Cold war tech can be in WW2 battle as they want it to be. 

 

BMP-3 isn't only victim of these kind of things. M60s still has broken mantlet. Even there is bug report 2+ year old. And there is US 90mm T44 which can't have right stat even with proper bug report for more than years. Both of them didn't even have any anwser yet.

These show how well Gaijin handle things their way.

 

Same with US they haven't got any more than .50 and crappy 37mm till 4.0BR . Still 40mm didn't have proper fire rate to shoot at planes and have to stuck with them untill M163.

 

"At some point" in my post also mean long back before Italy , France nor Japanese ground force came. Because grinding to the top tier with out premuim take a couple month or year. unless you play all day all night.

 

Honestly about this it really up to each player . You could said UK is easy while there are peoples saying that UK stuggle with how AP and APDS behave. or German lack these , US don't have that , etc . I wouldn't say so sure out of it.

 

Overall i didn't refuse that Soviet grinding has gone worst. But i could say that other nations didn't "alway" have easy time either.

Right now lot of ground Vehicles in War thunder need BR adjustment. And mainly BR decompression to fix this problem.

Edited by CodeNameColdWar
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At the end of the day, all I know is that as Soviets it's not possible to advance in ranks unless you're a complete no lifer. I don't understand this at all, why is making a good game unplayable an idea the developers thought good?

 

edit: the sheer badness of it is literally making me not buy anything from Gaijin. I would've been a good whale. But when their initial welcome is a middle finger, well, I guess I'm not welcome.

Edited by armis5738

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23 hours ago, armis5738 said:

At the end of the day, all I know is that as Soviets it's not possible to advance in ranks unless you're a complete no lifer. I don't understand this at all, why is making a good game unplayable an idea the developers thought good?

 

edit: the sheer badness of it is literally making me not buy anything from Gaijin. I would've been a good whale. But when their initial welcome is a middle finger, well, I guess I'm not welcome.

 

You don't know the half of it... Early T-34s with the 76mm and the T-34-57 (and especially the premium version) are actually quite good, in case you're not uptiered. All you need to learn is to face the edge of your hull (diagonally) to the target and most of them can't pen it, while you can easily get through all of them, with the 57mm even Churchills can be taken down. Your turret is a weakspot, but it's relatively small and not everyone seems to know they need to hit that.

 

After the T-34-57 though it's just a big black hole, the late T-34s like the 85 variant just suck, they're sluggish in every way (same engine with a lot heavier and slower rotating turret), their armor doesn't work anymore, and the 85's penetration proportionally isn't really good. At least not as good for it's BR as the 57's was for it's own. APHE is still very strong and generally has a high chance for one-shot kills, but penetrating with it becomes tricky around here (BR 5.3).

Except for the IS-1 the heavies are even worse. Their armor is just not enough, and their guns reload extremely slowly, have really bad depression, etc. The IS-1 can at least brawl with the 85mm's reload speed and the lowest BR of the IS series, but the things that come after it... just forget them.

 

From that point on there is quite a big black hole where you lose and fight and lose and fight and lose and go insane from the slow grind... The T-44 series could be a saving grace, they aren't very bad, but not good either... The first one really struggles with the 85mm gun, it's just not enough for that BR... The T-44-100 finally gets a really nice (albeit still very slow) gun, which tends to annihilate whatever you point it at, but the BR is too high on it. You'll often face gun stabilized opponents and the T-44 wobbles reeeeeeaaaaaally bad. Depression is still quite a big issue too.

 

Then (with greater hair loss) you finally get to the T-54 series, which are about the only tanks worth mentioning at Rank 5. They aren't very great, but a definite improvement, they work well in BR 7.7 battles. Their turret rotation will often get you killed, probably the gun depression too, but finally, all the way from the T-34-57 you again get a tank with armor that (more-or-less) works. You need to angle it (same way as T-34) and even then HEAT (mostly US) and 105mm+ APDS (mostly Britain) you can face will still mean serious threat, but you will again bounce shots, you can push. (which is the only thing you're good at, since you have slow muzzle velocity, bad depression and bad zoom / sights) The BR-412D is a very powerful round btw, probably the best (at any given BR) you'll ever have (T-44-100 has it too, but it's just not fit to wield it properly)

With all their mediocrity T-54s are a joy to play after the hell you've been through to get them. Just forget the heavies here, however BMP-1 can be fun too if you handle it well. Yeah and ZSU-57-2 is kind of okay-ish as a light tank, but is really just useless as an AA.

Also your BR 7.7 lineup has literally zero uptier resistance***, meaning you'll suck hard against anything bigger.

 

After that little oasis at BR 7.7, you step into hell again... With tanks like the T-62 you will be very happy to finally get a gun stabilizer, but then realize you're seriously lacking and dated in many other departments. Your armor no longer works (no, not even on the T-55AM-1), your slow reload time will get you killed a lot, your APFSDS is mediocre at best (straight up bad on the T-55 series), and the serious lack of thermal sights will make you suffer as well, especially on big, open maps, and night battles. Your opponents will just best you, with better mobility, better gun handling and guns, better sights, better everything, your stuff is just dated.

 

I'm afraid the next step where your tanks become useful again doesn't arrive before the T-80 series... Which is again an awful lot of a grind (thanks to the RP cost of high tier stuff), especially with a lineup that puts you at a disadvantage to begin with. You'll just lose a lot, both on encounter and on match level, not to mention your sanity.

 

***by uptier resistance I mean how useless your stuff becomes when it's uptiered. For example Britain tends to have very high uptier resistance.

Edited by Turenkarn
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On 20. januar 2020 at 12:32, CodeNameColdWar said:

Of cause you wouldn't expect KV-1 to alway be the Top dog forever. Do you ?

 

The last I remember them being top dogs was 2014 or 15. Mostly cause most GER players still haven't gotten used to using their long 75mm that can easily kill a KV. SMK was also fun back then because you had so many crew that you could lose. But with magical KwK ammo whose 29g of TNT does more post-pen than 120g it's now pretty much useless unless you take a very very good camping spot and ambush.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

 

You don't know the half of it... Early T-34s with the 76mm and the T-34-57 (and especially the premium version) are actually quite good, in case you're not uptiered.

 

I didn't play Tier 2 for a while, but when I came back a few years ago I was surprised by the abysmal mobility T-34s seemed to suffer from suddenly, while OTOH Panzer 4 was like a freaking race car all of a sudden with excellent offroad mobility when it wasn't like that when I still played that tier. When doing events in this rank I always use my German lineup for good reason. Especially the German KV-1 C which is far better than any Soviet KV, including KV-85 and KV-122 (both of which I have). Unless of course I do the event 6 kill-streak in SB and can take my Brit AC IV to club Panzer 4s with it's magical Shot Mk.8 that acts like a buffed APHE.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

After the T-34-57 though it's just a big black hole, the late T-34s like the 85 variant just suck, they're sluggish in every way (same engine with a lot heavier and slower rotating turret), their armor doesn't work anymore,

 

Because it's the exactly same armor as it is on Rank 2 versions of the tank. You're not facing puny American 75mm guns anymore, you're facing Ferraris with 380mm HEATFS and HESH, you're facing BMWs (RU 251 and Jpz) with HEATFS as well, Americans with impenetrable heavy front armor and heavy-hitting guns, Brits with APDS fired on the move thanks to stabilizers...

 

T-34-85 is in a bad spot and it's gun isn't working at it's own BR anymore unless it's against M36. It can't one-shot panther from front, even if it actually pens that blackhole Panther has for turret cheeks; it definitely can't pen it's UFP - while OTOH Panther can happily pen AND OHK you from any side, any angle and any distance.

 

The fact that PREMIUM T-34-100 is at 6.7 is a bloody disgrace that Gaijin can only get away with cause it's a Russian vehicle. Imagine the response if Gaijin did that to German or Murrican tank...

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

The T-44 series could be a saving grace, they aren't very bad, but not good either... The first one really struggles with the 85mm gun, it's just not enough for that BR...

 

Honestly, T-44s should be lowered down to 6.0 if not 5.7. They are perfect counter for Panthers who are two whole BR stops below it (Russian Bias I guess). It's got functioning armor, good turret traverse and good mobility, but as you said their guns are just letdowns.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Then (with greater hair loss) you finally get to the T-54 series, which are about the only tanks worth mentioning at Rank 5. They aren't very great, but a definite improvement, they work well in BR 7.7 battles.

 

 Imho they should be 7.3, especially T-54-47 and T-54-49. I've been playing Brits, US and Japanese of this tier a lot recently and I saw just how bad T-54s actually are at their tier compared to other tanks from that BR.

 

If you are facing them remember this rule: always carry HESH. It's still as ridiculous as it was. If a T-54 is hiding behind some wreck or building just hesh him in the turret. Insta-kill.

 

Unless you're driving M48 or M60 you will be more mobile than him and have a faster reload. Your APDS and HEATFS can help you pen his UFP to go straight for ammorack. Your HESH will nullify his cover.

 

I spaded my STB-1 yesterday in less than 15 battles - the fastest I ever spaded any tank over Rank 4 except for Panther 2; my WR was around 80%, I've got 3.6 KD with it and 1.9 kills/battle. I'm not saying this to brag, but to point out what else is also 7.7. To illustrate: my best KD in a T-54 is with 51 version at 1.9 KD and 1.2 kills/battle.

 

Spaded it can keep up with my friend's Warrior, it's got stabilizer, fast turret, hydropneumatic suspension, .50 cal on the roof, mind-blowingly good armor (the side of my turret bounces easily), apds, heatfs, hesh and smoke grenades both from gun and separately. And it's 7.7. Even with repair costs being 11.000 lions the only time I had a loss was on Frozen Pass when Italian wondercar was faster spawncamping us than we could actually leave our spawns and I was too angry to want to respawn.

 

Leopard 1 is also better in every respect I can imagine. The only ones lacking are M48 and M60, but only in mobility and size, armor is good unless they get heafsed.

 

Yes, T-54s were awesome, they still kinda work, but when fighting against their own BR they are ALMOST underdog (the D shell and sometimes trolly UFP is what holds it above waterlevel), even with recently improved mobility. Their slow turret rotation, gun handling, ballistics, lack of ammo choices for early versions and reload are still what kills them.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Their turret rotation will often get you killed, probably the gun depression too,

 

Agreed, turret rotation and reload will be what kill you, plus poor ability to shoot at ranges due to very low muzzle velocity and horrible ammo choices for early versions and the fact that you start with bloody basic shell and then have to GRIND for the D shell (which tier is it for 47, again?).

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

With all their mediocrity T-54s are a joy to play after the hell you've been through to get them.

 

I really like T-54s because the army base just 800m from where I grew up had them and T-55s, so they were a very regular sight in my childhood when they rolled out to a nearby proving ground and all of us kids immediately ran to watch them and wave to the soldiers. But their BR is what kills them for me. The 8.7 black hole. That's why I avoid 7.7 and rather play 7.3.

 

Type-74/G, L44, A1A1, OF 40, not to mention all that stuff even lower like Centauro (cause thermals as first level mod at 8.0 is SUCH a great idea /sarcasm), HVG, Leo 1, Bradley, Warrior, Type 89, STB, etc.

 

7.3 doesn't suffer as much from uptiers. Yes, the lineup is not OP, but it works well enough to be enjoyable (IS-3, T-44-100, BMP-1, Su-122-54, MiG-9L). T-54s should really be 7.3, especially since M47 which is a good counterpart (back in the old IS4 SB event where I mostly played T-54s the M46 and M47 tanks were the ones I really feared)..

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Just forget the heavies here, however BMP-1 can be fun too if you handle it well. Yeah and ZSU-57-2 is kind of okay-ish as a light tank, but is really just useless as an AA.

 

The Chinese ZSU-57-2 has proximity fuses... Sure, it's 8.0; but I really want proximity fuses for the Soviet one as well. If you play it well, 57-2 is a very good TD on urban maps like Rhine, Poland, etc. unless you get air-molested or heshed or heatfsed. It's quick gun traverse and ammo (even if the best ammo was nerfed by Gaijin with unrealistic HE shell in the mix) serve it well. I carry only half the ammo load for better survivability.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

Your armor no longer works (no, not even on the T-55AM-1), your slow reload time will get you killed a lot, your APFSDS is mediocre at best (straight up bad on the T-55 series), and the serious lack of thermal sights will make you suffer as well, especially on big, open maps, and night battles. Your opponents will just best you, with better mobility, better gun handling and guns, better sights, better everything, your stuff is just dated.

 

This. So much this.

 

18 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

I'm afraid the next step where your tanks become useful again doesn't arrive before the T-80 series... Which is again an awful lot of a grind (thanks to the RP cost of high tier stuff), especially with a lineup that puts you at a disadvantage to begin with. You'll just lose a lot, both on encounter and on match level, not to mention your sanity.

 

Very true.

 

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21 hours ago, Turenkarn said:

 

You don't know the half of it... Early T-34s with the 76mm and the T-34-57 (and especially the premium version) are actually quite good, in case you're not uptiered. All you need to learn is to face the edge of your hull (diagonally) to the target and most of them can't pen it, while you can easily get through all of them, with the 57mm even Churchills can be taken down. Your turret is a weakspot, but it's relatively small and not everyone seems to know they need to hit that.

 

After the T-34-57 though it's just a big black hole, the late T-34s like the 85 variant just suck, they're sluggish in every way (same engine with a lot heavier and slower rotating turret), their armor doesn't work anymore, and the 85's penetration proportionally isn't really good. At least not as good for it's BR as the 57's was for it's own. APHE is still very strong and generally has a high chance for one-shot kills, but penetrating with it becomes tricky around here (BR 5.3).

Except for the IS-1 the heavies are even worse. Their armor is just not enough, and their guns reload extremely slowly, have really bad depression, etc. The IS-1 can at least brawl with the 85mm's reload speed and the lowest BR of the IS series, but the things that come after it... just forget them.

 

From that point on there is quite a big black hole where you lose and fight and lose and fight and lose and go insane from the slow grind... The T-44 series could be a saving grace, they aren't very bad, but not good either... The first one really struggles with the 85mm gun, it's just not enough for that BR... The T-44-100 finally gets a really nice (albeit still very slow) gun, which tends to annihilate whatever you point it at, but the BR is too high on it. You'll often face gun stabilized opponents and the T-44 wobbles reeeeeeaaaaaally bad. Depression is still quite a big issue too.

 

Then (with greater hair loss) you finally get to the T-54 series, which are about the only tanks worth mentioning at Rank 5. They aren't very great, but a definite improvement, they work well in BR 7.7 battles. Their turret rotation will often get you killed, probably the gun depression too, but finally, all the way from the T-34-57 you again get a tank with armor that (more-or-less) works. You need to angle it (same way as T-34) and even then HEAT (mostly US) and 105mm+ APDS (mostly Britain) you can face will still mean serious threat, but you will again bounce shots, you can push. (which is the only thing you're good at, since you have slow muzzle velocity, bad depression and bad zoom / sights) The BR-412D is a very powerful round btw, probably the best (at any given BR) you'll ever have (T-44-100 has it too, but it's just not fit to wield it properly)

With all their mediocrity T-54s are a joy to play after the hell you've been through to get them. Just forget the heavies here, however BMP-1 can be fun too if you handle it well. Yeah and ZSU-57-2 is kind of okay-ish as a light tank, but is really just useless as an AA.

Also your BR 7.7 lineup has literally zero uptier resistance***, meaning you'll suck hard against anything bigger.

 

After that little oasis at BR 7.7, you step into hell again... With tanks like the T-62 you will be very happy to finally get a gun stabilizer, but then realize you're seriously lacking and dated in many other departments. Your armor no longer works (no, not even on the T-55AM-1), your slow reload time will get you killed a lot, your APFSDS is mediocre at best (straight up bad on the T-55 series), and the serious lack of thermal sights will make you suffer as well, especially on big, open maps, and night battles. Your opponents will just best you, with better mobility, better gun handling and guns, better sights, better everything, your stuff is just dated.

 

I'm afraid the next step where your tanks become useful again doesn't arrive before the T-80 series... Which is again an awful lot of a grind (thanks to the RP cost of high tier stuff), especially with a lineup that puts you at a disadvantage to begin with. You'll just lose a lot, both on encounter and on match level, not to mention your sanity.

 

***by uptier resistance I mean how useless your stuff becomes when it's uptiered. For example Britain tends to have very high uptier resistance.

 

It does sound like I need to stop grinding once I get the full 4.3 set and then switch to Americans. I try to angle as best as I can, but with all the endless non-ricocheting tungsten rounds, it doesn't seem too effective. Maybe at long range but it's not like you ever get long range maps. And at that point the Soviet wunderwaffe tank guns won't pierce even an Italian sports car.

 

edit: looking at win rate differences on Thunderskill, the win rate discrepancy is routinely so big (40/60) that other games would be doing emergency bans or patches to fix the situation. So that leaves two choices for why Gaijin is doing this: apathy or design. So either they broke the game on purpose or don't care. 

 

Edited by armis5738

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2 hours ago, armis5738 said:

 

It does sound like I need to stop grinding once I get the full 4.3 set and then switch to Americans. I try to angle as best as I can, but with all the endless non-ricocheting tungsten rounds, it doesn't seem too effective. Maybe at long range but it's not like you ever get long range maps. And at that point the Soviet wunderwaffe tank guns won't pierce even an Italian sports car.

 

edit: looking at win rate differences on Thunderskill, the win rate discrepancy is routinely so big (40/60) that other games would be doing emergency bans or patches to fix the situation. So that leaves two choices for why Gaijin is doing this: apathy or design. So either they broke the game on purpose or don't care. 

 

 4.3 is good, your issues there probably arise from 5.3 being a very popular tier and you getting dragged up there a lot. Against 5.3 stuff your armor won't work anymore, and only the 57mm can pen stuff there.

 

Gaijin always hated thunderskill and whenever you bring it up to them they just say it's a 3rd party site that must be incorrect and they don't care about it. They have their own, in-house statistics that they use to balance the game, at least that's what they say, but they never share any of them and keep making bad decisions (in terms of BR and repair cost changes), so I have my doubts...

 

IMHO it's kind of both. For one part they did break the game on purpose and they keep on doing it. They keep shifting the powercreep between sides / nations so the top OP crap is always somewhere else, forcing people to grind multiple nations to top, and hoping they'll speed that process up with spending real money. That is for top tier, BR 10.0 - 10.3 is intentionally broken.

As for lower tiers, they simply just don't give a flying xxxx anymore, would be too much trouble keeping it all balanced, and they obviously don't want to take it on.

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