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Leopard L44 and AMX Super Battle Rating

2 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Leopard 1A1 L44 and AMX Super have low winrates and low K/D ratios on Thunderskill. They aren't spammed like the XM-1s either. Not even remotely. 

 

Theres no need to uptier them. Just because the XM-1 is like a modern day MBT, other premiums require no uptier. Leopards have no armor, very low survivalbility (ammo racks everywhere), almost no acceleration + superslow gunhandling. Leo 1 chassis' have no buisiness fighting 10.0's. It was at BR 9.0 at release and had winrates below 20% vs. M1's and stuff. Theres no point to up its BR again. Especially not for a slow vehicle which can be frontally ammoracked by even SPAA vehicles.

 

Btw: XM-1's are clearly better than any 9.7 MBTs. Thermal view, safe ammo storage, survivalbility, high speed, excellent gun handling.  Its far better than any Leopard 2k, which has ammo stored everywhere in its hull and has NO thermal vierw. If 2k's are at 9.7, XM-1 have to be at 10.0.

 

XM-1 are like modern day MBTs, they have to be at 10.0! 9.3 is still a joke. It just creates a new freedom bubble at BR 9.3, which sucks everyone from 8.3 and higher into their matches. This tank has better characteristics than other 9.7's. I just don't understand why US always get that super low BRs for their stuff.

 

 

Joke post?

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8 hours ago, TheCloop123 said:

it ONLY HAS 3 CREW and you can literally pen the left side of turret and delete 2 of them,

 

That doesn't change the fact that the survivability of the SUPER, 74G, L/44, etc., are also garbage.

 

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thats an OHK and it also has a stupidly awful ATGM grind to go through.

 

You're comparing premiums against a non-premium.

Standard 74, A1A1, T-55, Mk2A etc., also have poor stock shells.

 

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and trash armour that protects against nothing at 9.0

 

Just like the others mentioned.

 

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the only good thing about MBT-70 is the mobility which is easily matched by [...] the 74G

 

hrrn.png.ff1c306d9f26e4e852a9c07c5f55624

 

MBT-70 accelerates TWICE as fast IN REVERSE than the Type 74G does forwards.

And that's not even mentioning the astronomical gap in traverse rate, top speed and neutral steering.

 

 

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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9 hours ago, pasiasd said:

Leopard 2K was first introduced at 8.7 and it was a mess. 7.7-8.7 one would either play Germans or lose.

XM-1 should be at 9.7 but also with correct composites and M774(?).

Gaijin is likely reluctant to uptier / properly balance the 8.7 premiums and XM-1 since they are so lucrative p2w vehicles.

Which is why I don't understand why only the MTCA got moved up..

The 2k also had a faster reload and came in with the XM-1 which caused inflated win rates. It also wasn’t fighting Abrams after Abrams(not to mention the near two years worth of vehicles that have been introduced)

 

If the XM-1 got proper armour and ammo it could go to 10.0 easily.

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2 hours ago, *CodyBlues said:

If the XM-1 got proper armour and ammo it could go to 10.0 easily.

 

More like 9.7 to be fair.

 

Properly fixed armour still would only place it in the 335mm vs KE region, which is pathetic for a 10.0 vehicle.

M774 is also not that great for 10.0, especially given the 6.7 sec reload instead of 5 seconds on the regular M1's.

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On 19/12/2019 at 17:20, TheCloop123 said:

that literally means they statistically would have higher stats over the 'average baseline' meaning the vehicle is over performing.

Which is is what Gaijin is most likely doing. They take average W/R, K/D frags per battle, perhaps also average income and put it into algorithm. Which is why MTCA was uptiered.

 

12 hours ago, pasiasd said:

Which is why I don't understand why only the MTCA got moved up..

Because it was performing better. And upping repair cost on premium vehicle is unlikely so they increased BR instead. Also it sells worse than XM-1 and Leo/44.

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3 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

More like 9.7 to be fair.

 

Properly fixed armour still would only place it in the 335mm vs KE region, which is pathetic for a 10.0 vehicle.

M774 is also not that great for 10.0, especially given the 6.7 sec reload instead of 5 seconds on the regular M1's.

True but it would be too much for any 8.7 and even 9.0s.

 

but I’m also in the camp that says literally every 10.0 should be moved up a smidge(as well as all 10.3s to 10.7) and moving up most 8.7s to at least 9.0-9.3

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9.0 seems like a fair battle rating for the AMX 30 Super, Leo L44 and Type 74G 

 

Honestly 9.0 is a pretty comfy br to be at right now (chieftain mk 10 is good) so I don't think those tanks will do badly there. 

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18 hours ago, pasiasd said:

Leopard 2K was first introduced at 8.7 and it was a mess. 7.7-8.7 one would either play Germans or lose.

XM-1 should be at 9.7 but also with correct composites and M774(?).

Gaijin is likely reluctant to uptier / properly balance the 8.7 premiums and XM-1 since they are so lucrative p2w vehicles.

Which is why I don't understand why only the MTCA got moved up..

 

Italy is a less popular nation, so the people that bought the MTCA are more likley to be experienced completionist players who want to grind the tree fast rather than your average joe who buys an expensive premium because he wants to buy his way into top tier as he doesn't have the time to play as much

 

so on average, it likley performed better than other 8.7 premiums, even though it's not really better. If anything it's a slightly worse L44. This perfectly exemplifies one way in which gaijin's use of statistical vehicle performance for balancing is flawed

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10 hours ago, raxu_ said:

Have people still not realized the mm pen differences don't really matter at a BR where everyone one tap each other?

sure but leo l44 and type 74g have thermal sights so are straight up better than their tech tree counterparts in that sense

AMX-30 super has a far better hp/ton ratio than comparable tech tree 8.7s 

 

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4 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

sure but leo l44 and type 74g have thermal sights so are straight up better than their tech tree counterparts in that sense

AMX-30 super has a far better hp/ton ratio than comparable tech tree 8.7s 

 

 

AMX-30 Super also lacks armor everywhere and that's why it got better hp/ton ratio. Its as you probably can guess an AMX-30 still. Where can we find em? Yeah at 7.7 and there they get one shot by full downtiers.

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49 minutes ago, raxu_ said:

 

AMX-30 Super also lacks armor everywhere and that's why it got better hp/ton ratio. Its as you probably can guess an AMX-30 still. Where can we find em? Yeah at 7.7 and there they get one shot by full downtiers.

But none of the other AMX-30s have a stabilizer. 

 

The M60A3 TTS is equal to or even slightly worse than the AMX-30 Super, Leopard A1A1 L/44 and Type 74G but it's still 9.3

 

That tells me that the A3 TTS is overtiered and/or the others are undertiered

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1 hour ago, raxu_ said:

AMX-30 Super also lacks armor everywhere and that's why it got better hp/ton ratio. Its as you probably can guess an AMX-30 still. Where can we find em? Yeah at 7.7 and there they get one shot by full downtiers.

 

None of the 8.7's have armour that's efficient enough to provide reliable protection.

 

So moot point.

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1 hour ago, raxu_ said:

 

AMX-30 Super also lacks armor everywhere and that's why it got better hp/ton ratio. Its as you probably can guess an AMX-30 still. Where can we find em? Yeah at 7.7 and there they get one shot by full downtiers.

Lol

The 7.7 Leopard 1 is maybe even worse than the 7.7 AMX 30.

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4 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

None of the 8.7's have armour that's efficient enough to provide reliable protection.

 

So moot point.


Reliable as in? I can say the T-55AM1 has way better protection than the Super.

The T-55 can survive downtier encounters even if it doesn't shoot first. A Super definitely can't.
 

Edited by raxu_
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1 minute ago, raxu_ said:

Reliable as in? I can say the T-55AM1 has way better protection than the Super.

No it doesn't. T-55AM is completely butter to all of the APFSDS and ATGMs it encounters. The turret armor behind the eyebrows is even worse. Yet it's slower, has worse gun handling, and way worse ammunition.

 

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8 minutes ago, raxu_ said:

Reliable as in? I can say the T-55AM1 has way better protection than the Super.

 

Better =/= Good.

 

Everything with APFSDS one-clicks the T-55AM across the entire hull.

 

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The T-55 can survive downtier encounters even if it doesn't shoot first. A Super definitely can't.

 

AMX_30 SUPER gets to roflpen everything in down-tiers as well as run circles around everything due to it's massive mobility advantage.

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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2 minutes ago, ANDROMADA said:

No it doesn't. T-55AM is completely butter to all of the APFSDS and ATGMs it encounters. The turret armor behind the eyebrows is even worse. Yet it's slower, has worse gun handling, and way worse ammunition.

 


Did you happen to not read what I said regarding downtiers? Do you face many APFSDS vehicles or relevant ATGMs then?

2 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Better =/= Good.

 

Everything with APFSDS one-clicks the T-55AM across the entire hull.

 

 

AMX_30 SUPER gets to roflpen everything in down-tiers as well as run circles around everything due to it's massive mobility advantage.

 

 

 

one-clicks in test drive or in actual game cause I doubt it. It works for me atleast, maybe you should atleast test it before talking.

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3 minutes ago, raxu_ said:

Did you happen to not read what I said regarding downtiers? Do you face many APFSDS vehicles or relevant ATGMs then?

 

First off, down-tiers are quite rare, most ofen you're facing 9.0's.

Second, even in down-tiers, your primary opponent is still the Leo L/44 and A1A1, these insta pen you anywhere.

Third, you still have garbage mobility, quite a few 7.7's have little issue getting a shot on your side.

Fourth, HEAT-FS and APDS can still pen the turret front near the mantlet without much issue, you'll always be vulnerable in that vehicle.

Edited by Necrons31467
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1 minute ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

First off, down-tiers are quite rare, most ofen you're facing 9.0's.

Second, even in down-tiers, your primary opponent is still the Leo L/44 and A1A1, these insta pen you anywhere.

Third, you still have garbage mobility, quite a few 7.7's have little issue getting a shot on your side.

Fourth, HEAT-FS and APDS can still pen the turret front near the mantlet without much issue, you'll always be vulnerable in that vehicle.

 

1) Source? My downtiers arent that rare.
2) You insta pen a L/44 just as easy.
3) Mobility is fine. It's 8.7. No need for Rooikat speed. Besides facing 7.7s means you more often than not have a stab and they don't and usually get off the first shot.
4) HEAT-FS and APDS is very unreliable.

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9 minutes ago, raxu_ said:

Did you happen to not read what I said regarding downtiers? Do you face many APFSDS vehicles or relevant ATGMs then?

Even in the context of downtiers, the AMX-30 S, Leopard L/44, and Type 74G are far superior at seal clubbing than the T-55AM. There is no armor advantage, everything pens it. All the others have better mobility, RoF, ammunition, and they all get thermals! while the T-55AM gets none of them.

 

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6 minutes ago, ANDROMADA said:

Even in the context of downtiers, the AMX-30 S, Leopard L/44, and Type 74G are far superior at seal clubbing than the T-55AM. There is no armor advantage, everything pens it. All the others have better mobility, RoF, ammunition, and they all get thermals! while the T-55AM gets none of them.

 

 

T-55AM-1 has way better armor which you notice if you ever face it in an uptier in lets say the STB-1 or AMX30 1972.

And thermals wow, just ULQ and you'll see even better than some 640x480 res black and white. Thermal argument isn't really working unless it had M1A2 level of thermals.

Ammo doesnt matter that much either since the most dangerous you'll face is a Leo 2K or XM-1(none of which are particularily protected) Challenger 2's are too rare to count with.

Edited by raxu_
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3 hours ago, *MiseryIndex556 said:

They should just give the Rise P thermals at this point. 

No offense, but that would kind of render the purpose of the M60A3 TTS being added to be even more pointless.

Edited by Digital8BitBuddy
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