Stridzvagn

Leopard L44 and AMX Super Battle Rating

Now that xm-1 got uptiered to 9.3

There will be no other reason for these two stay at 8.7, a person who still defends it to stay at its current BR are basically P2W Sealclubber.

If anyone say "Xm-1 is still op" and "but you have xm-1" , I'll take it as a troll because Axis have those two broken tank plus AUBL HVG, BMP-2.

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Moved to Machinery of War>Ground Forces
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Axis have those two broken tank plus AUBL HVG, BMP-2.

 

Since when did any axis country have the BMP-2? :008:

Also; BMP-2 and BMP-3 HVAP belts were nerfed for no reason.. 100 > 82 mm on flat 10 meter pen

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Whether XM-1 should be 9.0 or 9.3 is IMO a matter of debate, but considering the OF-40 is at 9.0, there's no reason for the L/44 and AMX-30 to be at 8.7, when they're all equally capable.

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I support that decision it would make 7.7 a little more bearable. Hell the L44 has thermals lmao at 8.7 with a better gun than the Xm1. It’s mobility is a little worse than the xm-1, but still very much 9.0 material. 

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5 hours ago, Stridzvagn said:

Now that xm-1 got uptiered to 9.3

There will be no other reason for these two stay at 8.7, a person who still defends it to stay at its current BR are basically P2W Sealclubber.

If anyone say "Xm-1 is still op" and "but you have xm-1" , I'll take it as a troll because Axis have those two broken tank plus AUBL HVG, BMP-2.

Do you step on your tail yourself, do you have the xm1, L44 and some more, do you complain that they raise the xm1 and you want them to also climb the L44? Seriously, think about it.
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12 hours ago, Stridzvagn said:

Now that xm-1 got uptiered to 9.3

XM-1 was 9,3 material even before thermals.

 

12 hours ago, Stridzvagn said:

There will be no other reason for these two stay at 8.7

There is, it is called M1 and IPM1. If those go up, then I am all for upping Leo/44 and SuperFrog to 9,0.

You call this seal clubbing?

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.eb7d457f3e216242dc73b82e

Then how would you call this?

Spoiler

image.png.dee9fe0cad1f3c9bad4ebb30ba015d

Both are yours... Show me which one is bigger seal clubber?

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I wouldnt have any issues to see L/44 at 9.0 with MTCA, but i cant take you seriously after call HVG "OP".

And BMP-2 with axis? 

What kind of game are you playing here?

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1 hour ago, LahvanCz said:

XM-1 was 9,3 material even before thermals.

It wasnt... go look at the stats of the XM1 over the last 12 months, January was its highest W% since it clubbed back in 2018 when it released, after that it declined to as low as 30% and climbed back up to as high as 57% with a larger spike right before Thermals arrived and gradually went back down to about 55% after thermals released. now lets compare that to all other Premiums like the Super/L44/MTCA who all had average 56% fairly balanced but when we take a look at KDR which is what gaijin balances on (most) of the time. all 3 of these TANKS had higher KDR's than the XM1 before and after Thermals released lol the only change was BR which saw its performance spike heavily. but to say it was 9.3 material before that is a blatant disregard of the facts that happened over the last 12 months.

Spoiler

1033785487_XM1stats.thumb.JPG.5e88d1f84b

As you can see KDR for the best part 9 months stood below 1.8 and in a lot of cases was 1.3/1.4 KDR (look at the graphs), now lets compare that to all 3 other premiums (Super/L44/MTCA)

 

L44: oh look, KDR again is pretty much borderline what the XM1 is sitting at even after it 'stomped' the 8.7 meta..... interesting how a tank thats so called OP (XM1) is still matched by 8.7 premiums even though winrates are massively different. 

Spoiler

2075516788_L44Stats.thumb.JPG.203d01692b

 

MTCA: stats show again lowest KDR of about 1.7 and highest being 2.1 and its currently holding at 1.8-2 in both Frags per battle and deaths give or take right now

Spoiler

139699894_MTCAstats.thumb.JPG.47ce3f9263

 

Super: notice how KDR literally has never gone BELOW 1.8 for Ground Deaths and Ground frags per battle is literally 2.1/2.2 consistently since it launched, yeah XM1 clearly is 9.3 material while the french are happy rocking much higher averages across the board, if XM1 is 9.3 before thermals then Super is 9.7 no joke looking at these stats over the last 12 months (or how far back it goes for some vehicles)

Spoiler

1240595725_SuperStats.thumb.JPG.f0e2ed99

 

XM1 is not the only problem tank but certainly has not been the 'biggest' problem till now, while L44/Super/MTCA have been happily reeping the benefits while yet again US get short end of the stick on these 'problems' lets face it mate, all premiums should be 9.0+ otherwise they are by definition P2W tanks.

Edited by TheCloop123
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All 3 tanks combined have half the spawns of XM1... More likely to have "aces" driving them.

 

Italy and French are usually not nations picked up by newbie players, but veterans, hence better K/D.

 

There was public outcry to uptier XM-1 long before thermals, now it gotten even worse.

 

But I am fine, I will retreat to funny BRs around 5-6,3 :)

Edited by LahvanCz
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10 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

All 3 tanks combined have half the spawns of XM1... More likely to have "aces" driving them.

 

Italy and French are usually not nations picked up by newbie players, but veterans, hence better K/D.

 

There was public outcry to uptier XM-1 long before thermals, now it gotten even worse.

doesnt matter who plays them........... gaijin still has to balance vehicles based on 'performance' and statistically these all performed equal or better than XM1 with much lower 'battles' which actually goes in favour because lower battles means a smaller data pool, but if the data shows huge spikes or consistent results it means on average these 'good players' are doing much better in these vehicles than 'your average' player would, implying the vehicle simply needs to balanced more. 

 

Example would be the MTCA when it was 8.7, this is what forced Gaijin to increase its BR from 8.7 to 9.0 because it was performing too good with easily 2.0+ KDR figures and as high as 2.4 in frags per battle, but somehow the AMX30 Super avoids that even though KDR wise, its the highest of the 3 right now (excluding XM1) 

Edited by TheCloop123
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51 minutes ago, TheCloop123 said:

AMX30 Super avoids that even though KDR wise

Why AMX30 Super was uptiered, I dont know. I am not Gaijin.

 

When a vehicle is popular, average Joe flock to it and is pulling the average performance down, while good player influence over average is wattered.

 

When vehicle is played only by those who are interested in given nation (mostly minor one), average Joe tend to stay away from that vehicle and with smaller pool and better players stats rise.

 

So it does matter who plays them and how much.

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17 hours ago, FreshTheGame said:

AUBL/74 HVG are overpowered tanks

 

hrrn.png.ff1c306d9f26e4e852a9c07c5f55624

 

The AUBL is actually rather average to sub-par actually.

  • Horrible gun depression, especially if you're not aiming over the left quadrant of the vehicle.
  • Almost the lowest APFSDS penetration of any APFSDS shell in the game, the reload rate for it's low calibre is also rather lackluster.
  • Anything, literally ANYTHING will instantly kill this thing, including MG's, random Artillery strikes, ANY aircraft, etc.
  • Mobility is highly dependant on the map, if it's snow, sand or mud you'll be no better off than a regular tank at this BR.
  • Close quarters mobility is atrocious, you can't turn on the spot and you often get stuck on terrain that the low weight doesn't allow you to break through (fences, barricades, brick walls, etc).

It also gets up-tiered every single match against far superior machines.

 

2 hours ago, ANDROMADA said:

Don't forget the Type 74's. They can both go up with their lolpen dart. Especially the G Kai with thermals.

 

I like how often people forget about that thing, it's literally another Leopard 1 L/44.

 

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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3 hours ago, LahvanCz said:

Why AMX30 Super was uptiered, I dont know. I am not Gaijin.

 

When a vehicle is popular, average Joe flock to it and is pulling the average performance down, while good player influence over average is wattered.

 

When vehicle is played only by those who are interested in given nation (mostly minor one), average Joe tend to stay away from that vehicle and with smaller pool and better players stats rise.

 

So it does matter who plays them and how much.

By your example, that would require Gaijin to separate who the 'average joe' player is. it would also mean no vehicle would ever get balanced by doing this.

 

Ill use Rainbow Six Siege and CSGO as a good example on why your 'explanation does not work' 

 

Siege/CSGO require players to use Operators/weapons, its the only way for the balance to team to gather stats on those specific areas of balance to then balance in future, they dont 'separate' the good from the bad players and only use a select data set for balance, that would require a huge undertaking in both stat gathering and also logging other aspects of a player's performance such as rank (something War Thunder does not have) so the only data they have is from the players (good and bad alike) 

 

So again it does not matter 'who' plays the vehicle because it would be nearly impossible for Gaijin to determine which stats to 'take' as 'accurate' hence me saying gaijin balance a vehicle based on 'performance/statistics' as a whole. therefor, when taking a look at the other Premiums (including Type 74G) they are virtually identical if not better in 'performance' 

 

Type 74G is also rocking a 55% winrate with about 1.9-2.1 KDR figure, very similar to other premiums and ironically very close to the XM1 KDR figures (minus winrate figures) and also never saw any huge 'dips' in winrates or KDR even after XM1 was happily stomping anything in its wake. so again this should tell you how good premiums are even when in a time of crisis (XM1 spam at 9.0) they still could perform in terms of kills/death ratio, I said in a previous thread and I will say it here. all premiums should have gone up to 9.0 or 9.3.

 

NO PREMIUM should be better than a tech tree equivalent.

2 hours ago, ANDROMADA said:

Don't forget the Type 74's. They can both go up with their lolpen dart. Especially the G Kai with thermals.

 

Yeah I forgot about that, and figures on that are surprisingly similar if not better than some of the other Prems. 

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22 hours ago, Stavroforos said:

Whether XM-1 should be 9.0 or 9.3 is IMO a matter of debate, but considering the OF-40 is at 9.0, there's no reason for the L/44 and AMX-30 to be at 8.7, when they're all equally capable.

 

they are not. 

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Because there is a ocean of difference between the vehicles. From one going 70km/h uphill on terrain, while the others can't reach 45km/h on tarmac, to the almost 50 degrees/sec turret rotation, while others are stuck with 24 degrees/sec, to general gun handling, in case of the XM-1, compsite armor, blow out panels, and doing circles on the spot at 20km/h, by holding the A key etc. etc. I find it funny, how US fanboys and fangirls ignore statistics whenever it suits them. Even the OF-40 MTCA is miles ahead compared to the Leopard L/44, Type 74G & AMX-30 Super, let alone the XM-1. 

 

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17 minutes ago, SaekoB said:

 

they are not. 

like they are more capable than the M60A3 TTS which currently sits 0.6 BR higher. If the L/44 is 8.7 material so is the A3 TTS. 

Edited by dutchrenzo62
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25 minutes ago, dutchrenzo62 said:

like they are more capable than the M60A3 TTS which currently sits 0.6 BR higher. If the L/44 is 8.7 material so is the A3 TTS. 

 

Agreed the A3 should be an 8.7 tank at the moment, not 9.3, don't know what Gaijin was thinking. 

 

I said numerous times that most 8.7 need to go to 9.0, but not until 10.0 vehicles like the Abrams aren't moved to 10.3, XM-1, OF-40 MTCA can play against those relatively well as they feature similar statistics, while the Leopard, Type 74, AMX-30 don't and we had the scenario already when the 105mm Abrams was released into the game at 9.0, none of those tanks stood a chance at it was a massacre, not enjoyable and almost not playable at all. 

 

If they move M1 Abrams, IPM1,  Leopard 2A4, Type 90 & B and the T-80B to 10.3, we can move all premiums and some regulars to 9.0. Likewise they should move all 10.3s to 10.7. 

 

But don't compare XM-1 & OF-40 MTCA to other 8.7s because they are not remotely similar. 

Edited by SaekoB
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