Helicopters SB EC

[Twisted 3,112]

Well, look at the bright side . . . we have a really spiffy poll

They even put a pin in it

Edited November 15, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

42 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Well, look at the bright side . . . we have a really spiffy poll

They even put a pin in it

 

not optimal but good enough and somethin that is neutral. And the optimal solution would be more technically optimal not content wise. 

 

See making a decent poll has a way better effect (as you can see by the poll being pinned). 

 

A charged poll with a loaded question would never have this effect. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by DerGrafVonZahl

[Twisted 3,112]

Yes, your objective of a really cool poll was achieved and you completely F***ed the objective of a good natured conversation about making helicopters part of EC and getting the community on board.

 

This is ordinarily the problem with people who like to be heard but don't actually have anything important to add beside a load of paper work that achieves nothing but makes them feel important.

 

This is where most projects go to die

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

3 hours ago, Twisted said:

Yes, your objective of a really cool poll was achieved and you completely F***ed the objective of a good natured conversation about making helicopters part of EC and getting the community on board.

 

That is BS and you know... Hell the poll even shows it. People want Helis in EC. (that's the point of a poll isn't it?) 

 

Also you harbor resentment for quite a while don't you? 

 

 

3 hours ago, Twisted said:

This is ordinarily the problem with people who like to be heard but don't actually have anything important to add beside a load of paper work that achieves nothing but makes them feel important.

 

Yeah because a poll like

 

"Option1: this is the option I want you to pick

 

Option2: you are being a big meanie." 

 

Is definitely so much more effective in getting the community on board. You are delusional. 

 

3 hours ago, Twisted said:

This is where most projects go to die

 

 

 

Yeah it is definatley the pinned thread and not the fact that the SB forum section gets ignored by gaijin for years... 

 

 

[Twisted 3,112]

Oh wow . . . I didn't realize that if it wasn't for your poll that asks the same question in 6 different ways, it would have taken a lot less than 1 whole years to come to the conclusion that  . .yes . . .there are quite a few people who would like to give helicopters a try.

Of course  . .its Gaijin's fault that they did not pay attention to your brilliantly crafted poll, they put a pin in it

So like I said then, you simply wasted  time with a bunch of meaningless questions that diluted the entire argument, because you wanted to impress us with your intelligence.

 

I am really impressed .. . .

 

Any news on the helicopters that your poll so brilliantly proved SIM players want in a variety of emotions  from flaccid through chubby to extremely hard?

 

No.  ..ok . .so now that you have the rapturous support of the on board community . ..

 

Go make a fresh suggestion

 

I have complete faith, that an intelligent person such as your self, will surly have Gaijin's undivided attention.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

4 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Oh wow . . . I didn't realize that if it wasn't for your poll that asks the same question in 6 different ways, it would have taken a lot less than 1 whole years to come to the conclusion that  . .yes . . .there are quite a few people who would like to give helicopters a try.

 

No it asked the question in a neutral way... That was the important bit. Your questions were loaded and the result would have been useless. 

 

But it seems that bitching about criticism is more important to you than the actual discussion. Because there was a discussion going on but you could let it go, you had to still be salty and now you derailed it. Good job. 

 

 

 

Quote

Of course  . .its Gaijin's fault that they did not pay attention to your brilliantly crafted poll, they put a pin in it

 

You don't seem to understand the point of a poll. It's not gaijin you need to see it, but the players. If you wanted to reach gaijin this forum section would be the wrong place anyway. 3rd person view gunners are complained about for ages now... In many different forms. It never got resolved. 

 

 

69 participant isn't to bad by this forums standards. 

 

 

This is a poll that runs since 2017 about a topic pretty much everyone here is passionate about and still it only has 2/3rds the votes. 

 

Quote

So like I said then, you simply wasted  time with a bunch of meaningless questions that diluted the entire argument, because you wanted to impress us with your intelligence.

 

Me... You couldn't let it go and had to be snarky. Just let it go and let the discussion continue. 

 

Quote

I am really impressed .. . .

 

Any news on the helicopters that your poll so brilliantly proved SIM players want in a variety of emotions  from flaccid through chubby to extremely hard?

 

Again a poll is to gauge the players opinion... And it achieved that perfectly. It served it's purpose. 

 

A poll is a measuring instrument not an argument in itself. The point is that you now have something objective to show what the players want. And yes it achieved that. 

 

Quote

No.  ..ok . .so now that you have the rapturous support of the on board community . ..

 

Go make a fresh suggestion

 

If you wanted a suggestion why did you try to make a poll at the beginning? 

 

The post I criticised you for was a poll not a suggestion. Those are mutually exclusive. you don't put a poll in a suggestion that skews the result... Making the poll useless. 

 

You first poll the players what they want and than use that independent poll to back up the suggestion. That way you can see the poll is objective and the result is indeed the opinion of the playerbase... 

[Twisted 3,112]

Oh gosh . . .you mean that there could be something more useless than your poll?

 

let me let you on to a little secret . . the war thunder forum is populated by a special class of moron that has has only two modes,

 

1. Oh I am really intelligent and can use big words and sound logical

2. Oh, I am deeply aggrieved because I am so pro that what Gaijin has done is sending me into spasms.

 

Neither of these approaches has ever worked . . . and your great effort to make a poll . . resulted in only that

 

make a poll . . .

 

You seem really good at it . .you should make many more and I am sure that you will get great support from the community

 

My Lord . .you may even get elected to the War Thunder Player Council where like minded people like you can fill pages and pages of what you can't get done

 

Understand this . . . you achieved nothing, and before you start to make excuses about how Gaijin dosen't listen and nobody could have got anything done because Gaijin isn't interested, then you should have kept your mouth shut instead of trying to hijack a matter that could have followed a different path than your insipid weak attempt to act pro.

 

The state of things here are because of people like you, who don;t really care what is happening with the game, but they must take every opportunity to share with us their pro opinions. . . . of course when all else fails . .must be pro because, you know, IL2 and DCS

 

Good job . . .so whats the next step?

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

35 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Oh gosh . . .you mean that there could be something more useless than your poll?

 

How is it useless? it does exactly what a poll is supposed to do.

 

We now have objective evidence that with 95% confidence about 73-91% of the players want helicopters in current EC. i think that is quite useful to know.

 

it gathered the indformaion it was supposed to gather.

 

Quote

let me let you on to a little secret . . the war thunder forum is populated by a special class of moron that has has only two modes,

 

1. Oh I am really intelligent and can use big words and sound logical

2. Oh, I am deeply aggrieved because I am so pro that what Gaijin has done is sending me into spasms.

 

Neither of these approaches has ever worked . . . and your great effort to make a poll . . resulted in only that

 

So why did you initially try to mae a poll? if polls are useless?

 

you went for a poll, and as i said before it was massively skewed and therefore would
t even have worked as a poll. so what was he point of that exercise?

 

Quote

make a poll . . .

 

You seem really good at it . .you should make many more and I am sure that you will get great support from the community

 

Well the poll did wok well, i isn't skewed and does portray the opinion of the playerbase.

 

You seem undeception, that a poll is to gather support and to work like an argument. A poll cannot convince anyone, it's ot the purpose it is to gauge.

 

Quote

My Lord . .you may even get elected to the War Thunder Player Council where like minded people like you can fill pages and pages of what you can't get done

 

I really don't get it, a poll is a measuring tool, nothing more. It doesn't get anyhing done, it doesn't change peoples minds... it isn't supposed to. 

If it changes peoples minds it would actually fail in polling the players opinion...

 

It's not the intention of a poll to change things.

 

Thisentire thing is the result of you making a completely skewed poll in the hopes that it achieves something instead of measuring... therefore your poll was skewed and useless ()well usually it is also an indication of dishonesty, as usually people skew polls un pupose because they have a predetermined outcome which they want to show, which was the case with you wasn't it, you already had an utome in mind when yo created your poll. You clearly wanted Helo EC to be the favored result otherwise you wouldn't think the poll is to achieve something else then gauging the playerbase). Why did you even think polls should be a tool to convince people? 

 

Quote

Understand this . . . you achieved nothing, and before you start to make excuses about how Gaijin dosen't listen and nobody could have got anything done because Gaijin isn't interested, then you should have kept your mouth shut instead of trying to hijack a matter that could have followed a different path than your insipid weak attempt to act pro.

 

Actually i did achieve something, i even achieved the goal: i have successfully have gained objective information about the wishes of the community. Exactly what a poll is supposed to do.

 

You are under the misconception that th poll should convince people about hlos in EC being a good idea... but you are putting the cart before the horse. The argument that should convince gaijin ist that players want helos in EC, but for that we first need to know if the player really want that and need a mehod to prove it. Now that measuring tool is the poll, and it worked. Why you expect a magic bullet that gauges the community and convinces gaijin at the same time is beyond me.

 

Quote

The state of things here are because of people like you, who don;t really care what is happening with the game, but they must take every opportunity to share with us their pro opinions.

 

getting mad at anyone disagreeing with you isn't very helpful either.

 

Quote

Good job . . .so whats the next step?

 

well, technically the polling isn't done. But with the overwhelmlingly onesided result i think this poll is fine nd pretty much done. there is only a 5% chance that the result is less than 73% in favor of Helos in current EC. And for the "What is the favorite?" Question the margin of error is a lot higher but the lead of "Helos in current EC" is overwhelming so it doesn't really matter. So next step would be closing the poll or wait for more votes.

 

The next step depends on what yo want to do with the poll. i mean all it does is measuring. That was my issue with your poll in the firs place, you put a measuring tool in a suggestion and created loaded questions. That made the poll useless, as it no longer showed the objective will of the players. I a suggestion you can either link a closed poll (so the poll isn't influenced by the suggestion) or leave it out all together. A poll inside the suggestion can be disregarded anyway as it is guaranteed to be skewed, making the poll redundant. I wanted to stp that from happening and wanted to objectively gauge the community... and it worked.

 

My guess is that you added the poll so you can have your suggestion backed up by the poll to show the players are agreeing with you. However as you poll was skewed it never would have done that and would simply be disregarded as it was obviously not objective. This poll can not be disregarded and can really be used to show that the players want this.

 

So if you think 69 votes is sufficient than the poll can be closed. or screenshotted with a timestamp. Because as soon as you link the poll to a suggestion for getting helos in Air EC, while the poll is still open, the poll no longer is objective and it no longer shows the objective opinion of the playerbase.

 

That was the idea of you initial poll wasn't it? to show that the players want helos in SB EC? Now you have something that actually does that and does it obectively.

 

 

 

edit: i have set the poll to clise by the end of this month. So the next step is to wait for this to happen.

Edited November 16, 2020 by DerGrafVonZahl

[Twisted 3,112]

You are indeed a tedious little creature with your cut and paste, one of the signs of intelligence is to be able to hold on to the thread of a conversation, try and keep up.

 

You can have 3 Million % confidence and it means nothing if nothing gets done. 1 year has passed  . . . I have double the confidence you have in your poll, that you have achieved nothing.

 

Now let me enlighten you in what you have achieved.

 

 

The object of this poll was to build consensus and convince Gaijin that the SB community was willing to participate in an EXPERIMENT  with helicopters in Standard EC. That SB players would take it as a light hearted thing and would gather data and see how it would go and maybe a great game mode would emerge, very much in the manner that EC it self evolved. Something that you would have understood if you actually had any interest in the game and actually read the poll, rather than trying to prove how pro you are because of your evenly balanced benign repetition of the same question.

 

Instead the message that was sent was that the morons that fall into category 1 & 2 as mentioned above, have a stick so far up their arse, that they are hopping mad just about the poll, an actual experiment with rotary wings will have them spinning so fast it will chew the bark off the stick. They are unable to participate in a development effort and will waste every bodies time with their inane bull s.h.i.t.

 

Had the conversation continued along the lines of an experiment, with out the usual cardic arrest pros such as yourself go into at every small issue, there exists the possibility that LGA or a similar programmer may have taken on the task to conduct this experiment and we could have seen how it went.

 

Your guarantee to b.i.t.c.h about every aspect , starting from the poll . . . till today's grand achievement of NOTHING, simply succeeded in convincing anybody who had any interest, to simply look the other way than have you and your ilk whine at every stage and try and prove how pro you are by nit picking about every thing.

 

You effectively convinced gaijin, that it was better to do nothing.

 

So . . there you have it

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

You are indeed a tedious little creature with your cut and paste, one of the signs of intelligence is to be able to hold on to the thread of a conversation, try and keep up.

 

Well i am forced to, because i need to repeat the point of a poll over and over again... kind of exhausting.

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

You can have 3 Million % confidence and it means nothing if nothing gets done. 1 year has passed  . . . I have double the confidence you have in your poll, that you have achieved nothing.

 

no you cannot have 3million percent confidence... that would quite literally be impossible. Confidence in this case is a probability so it is never more than 100%. Confidence in that context doesn't mean how sure i am but the probability of the result not being radom chance.

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Now let me enlighten you in what you have achieved.

 

This is what irritates me. I tell you what the objective of a poll is and you want it to achieve something completely different.

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

 

The object of this poll was to build consensus and convince Gaijin that the SB community was willing to participate in an EXPERIMENT  with helicopters in Standard EC. That SB players would take it as a light hearted thing and would gather data and see how it would go and maybe a great game mode would emerge, very much in the manner that EC it self evolved. Something that you would have understood if you actually had any interest in the game and actually read the poll, rather than trying to prove how pro you are because of your evenly balanced benign repetition of the same question.

 

See so i was right, you don't understand the point of a poll. A poll measures it doesn't convince it does not create consensus it only shows it if it exists. 

You could have neutrally ask if people are interested, but you didn't. What you don't realize is that the result of your poll can be disregarded as it was never objective. It's like making a poll in a xxxx forum about if they prefer men over women... it's is biased in it's very nature and noone in his right might would accept the result as a crosssection of the female population.

 

So my initial criticism was correct, the poll was redundant. It isn't about being pro it is about having an objective sample, so the poll can actually say something about the community. a skewed poll cannot do that. And it baffles me that i even need to explain that.

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Instead the message that was sent was that the morons that fall into category 1 & 2 as mentioned above, have a stick so far up their arse, that they are hopping mad just about the poll, an actual experiment with rotary wings will have them spinning so fast it will chew the bark off the stick. They are unable to participate in a development effort and will waste every bodies time with their inane bull s.h.i.t.

 

Had the conversation continued along the lines of an experiment, with out the usual cardic arrest pros such as yourself go into at every small issue, there exists the possibility that LGA or a similar programmer may have taken on the task to conduct this experiment and we could have seen how it went.

 

all it woud have needed was to accept that the poll was useless and BS. Because it was. it was skewed and even gaijin would see through that.

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Your guarantee to b.i.t.c.h about every aspect , starting from the poll . . . till today's grand achievement of NOTHING, simply succeeded in convincing anybody who had any interest, to simply look the other way than have you and your ilk whine at every stage and try and prove how pro you are by nit picking about every thing.

 

again... polls do not achieve they gauge... so of course it doesn't achieve anything it isn't supposed to... this is why i said the poll was redundant. i mea what was the poll supposed to show? it couldn't show that people are interested because the entire poll was so heavily biased that it was practcally meaningless. I am sorry that i told you that obvious fact...

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

You effectively convinced gaijin, that it was better to do nothing.

 

you are delusional...

 

you just want to complain. Because Gaijjin would totally already have tested it, if it wasn't for me criticism a biased poll and you going ballistic over it.

Because all the other things people wanted to test all totally have happened. Like the removal of 3rd person gunner view, Tank only RB, Mixed enduring confrontation.... yeah riiiight. 

 

19 minutes ago, Twisted said:

So . . there you have it

 

 

[Twisted 3,112]

Let me know when we get helicopters in SIM genius . . .as far as your poll is concerned, wrap it around the stick and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

Let me know when you have achieved any objective beside wasting time

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

18 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Let me know when we get helicopters in SIM genius . . .as far as your poll is concerned, wrap it around the stick and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

Stop being a child.

 

It's sad that i have to repeat again, that a poll isn't supposed to get you anything. That was the cause of the initial problem of your poll, that made it biased.

You created a biased poll in the irst place and could not deal when someone pointed that out. You still don't get the purpose of a poll and still want it to change something... maybe you need to take a walk and take a deep breath, this seems to be rather about emotions atm. since you don't even try to understand the point i am trying to make.

 

i get that you simply want gaijin o test EC with helicopters, but pointing out that using a poll for that is inherently dishonest as those are tools for measurement, your reaction wasn't just to make a suggestion without a biased poll or accepting the issues with it. And now you use this as a convinient excuse why you won't get helo EC.

 

You also don't want to admit that you wanted the poll in your initial thread to have something to shw as "ook the community agrees with me" but you didn't care if it was actually true if the community does agree with you, so you didn't care if it was neutral or not. This is also the reason why you wanted it to achieve something... even though that is oppoosite wha a poll is supposed to do. A poll should not influence the voters decision.

 

Quote

Let me know when you have achieved any objective beside wasting time

 

as stated already i achieved gauging the community, which is the only objective a poll has. so 100% success. 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by DerGrafVonZahl

[Twisted 3,112]

The problem  here is that it is extremely difficult to converse with a moron who's greatest claim to fame is that in spite of the passing of 12 months, he has failed to even achieve a conversation that has a snow balls chance in hell during summer.

 

However, I will endeavor to humor you, only endeavor, as any attempt at humor will obviously be lost on you . . . because you are still stuck on your pointless and inane poll.

 

The purpose of the poll was to display one singular fact:

 

The SIM community was willing to participate in the exercise with good humor and understood that there would be problems and that the entire effort may fail or succeed.  The approach was to be an experiment. There were additional options for those who could not resist their urge to be an arsehole.

 

You of course went a step ahead than the simple options with your poll which amounted to:

 

We want a full fledged SIM EC Mode with helicopters.

 

The answer to which of course was as you can see . .just ignore and do nothing because its not worth the effort to have to listen to the endless b.i.t.i.c.h.i.n.g and whining of our forum pros.

 

In case the two neurons in your brain seem to have lost what tenuous connection they had, I am simply pointing out, that your objective was never to have helicopters implemented or tested, it was simply to attempt to show how smart you are by your idiotic poll.

 

The result is , your idiotic poll got pinned because it was easier to do nothing . . . and helicopters in SIM EC were never considered.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The problem  here is that it is extremely difficult to converse with a moron who's greatest claim to fame is that in spite of the passing of 12 months, he has failed to even achieve a conversation that has a snow balls chance in hell during summer.

 

see and i have to deal with a muppet that thinks, that a poll magically creates change instead of just polling people.

 

Not having a discussion here is rather useful, as the gal is to influence the voters as little as possible (having a poll only would be preferable)

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

However, I will endeavor to humor you, as any attempt at humor will obviously be lost on you . . . because you are still stuck on your pointless and inane poll.

 

if the poll is inane, why could you not get over that fact that yours was useless... i mean disregarding it would have not be a desaster (as it would be disregarded anyway)

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The purpose of the poll was to display one singular fact:

 

The SIM community was willing to participate in the exercise with good humor and understood that there would be problems and that the entire effort may fail or succeed.  The approach was to be an experiment. There were additional options for those who could not resist their urge to be an arsehole.

 

If that was the purpose then it failed spectacularly anyway. As you could only do that with a neural objective poll. So my initial criticism was right all along... good to know.

 

Th issue is that you don't understand why your initial poll would never be able to do this. 

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

You of course went a step ahead than the simple options with your poll which amounted to:

 

the main issue was the bias in your poll and the biased sampling. But you hop in the 5 option version as if that was the important bit... go ahead, but you are only lynig to yourself

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

We want a full fledged SIM EC Mode with helicopters.

 

That was unclear before we had a neutral poll. Before you had ust a claim, now you have evidence.

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The answer to which of course was as you can see . .just ignore and do nothing because its not worth the effort to have to listen to the endless b.i.t.i.c.h.i.n.g and whining of our forum pros.

 

i just corrected a mistake, the only emotional whining comes from you. 

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

In case the two neurons in your brain seem to have lost what tenuous connection they had, I am simply pointing out, that your objective was never to have helicopters implemented or tested, it was simply to attempt to show how smart you are by your idiotic poll.

 

No, my problem was with your poll being incredibly dishones annd i don't care for lying to get wha you want. I am rather interested in what the community truly wants instead of just getting what i want and being dishonest to get it. 

 

and yes to find ut what the community actualy wants you only can do hat by a neutral objective poll... and i am baffled that this is a hard conept to grasp.

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The result is , your idiotic poll got pinned because it was easier to do nothing . . . and helicopters in SIM EC were never considered.

 

Again, and i don't know why i have to repeat that:

 

A POLL IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CHANGE ANYTHING!!!!

 

your expectation of what a poll does is simply idiotic.

 

The fact that it is pinned increased the range it has in te playerbase, making it more likey to get more votes in an unbiased way... this is a good thing. A poll needs to reach players, not gaijin.

 

 

After (!!!!!) the poll is closed it is usable as evidence for the interests of the community and can be used to back up a suggestion. Because i objecively can show th interest of the community (the point of a poll).

 

 

 

[Twisted 3,112]

The purpose of a Poll is to establish an opinion and then act on it.

 

The purpose of the pole you seem to be stuck on . . .

 

is I guess

 

nothing . . .except your personal satisfaction

 

Good job . . .mission achieved

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

3 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The purpose of a Poll is to establish an opinion and then act on it.

and to ge the true opinion it needs to be neutral and objective, with no influence on the voters... and that was the issue.

 

we are still establishing he opinion. You are putting the cart in front of the horse.

 

3 minutes ago, Twisted said:

The purpose of the pole you seem to be stuck on . . .

 

Want some bread to that whine?

 

You don't really have any arguments and create strawmen that the poll did't magically solve everything.... come back if you have annything substantial. All you got is a poop flinging contest.

 

3 minutes ago, Twisted said:

is I guess

 

nothing . . .except your personal satisfaction

 

Good job . . .mission achieved

 

you are stll ignoring that there is now neutral obecive evidence for the players opinions... but you never cared for that did you?

[Twisted 3,112]

Why don't you simply admit what you knew on day one, 1 year ago, and you know today, your poll was meaningless and would have 0 result, you just felt the urge to shoot your mouth off.

 

As far as polls go . .You could just as easily had  1 question, yes/no that meant same thing as the other tedious options and that being said, missed the entire objective of conducting an experiment, that could easily have been conducted informally as helicopters are till today spawning in EC.

 

So for all your jibber jabber . . .in spite of 1 year elapsing, you have failed to generate any meaningful discussion or way forward towards a possible solution, because your objective was never helicopters, it was to shoot your mouth off.

 

And here is your result. Nothing

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Why don't you simply admit what you knew on day one, 1 year ago, and you know today, your poll was meaningless and would have 0 result, you just felt the urge to shoot your mouth off.

 

No, only because you don't understand the point it does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Of course i knew that it will not change peoples minds... but it would have been completely idiotic to think that.

I knew that it will show the true interests of the playerbase and it was supposed to do it. And it did.

 

It didn't do what you wanted, but that isn't the point of polls.... it is like expecting a knife to work as a hammes.... expecting it would do that would be idiotic.

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

As far as polls go . .You could just as easily had  1 question, yes/no that meant same thing as the other tedious options and that being said, missed the entire objective of conducting an experiment, that could easily have been conducted informally as helicopters are till today spawning in EC.

 

well yes/no would have been an ption yes. but this gives more information. 

 

The problem was never the number of options, but that the poll was loaded and biased....  how often am i supposed to repeat that?

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

So for all your jibber jabber . . .in spite of 1 year elapsing, you have failed to generate any meaningful discussion or way forward towards a possible solution, because your objective was never helicopters, it was to shoot your mouth off.

 

Yes i did not create a discussion. Because that wasn't the intention... the intention was to poll the community.... which shoud be rather obvious as this is quite literally a POLL!!!

 

2 minutes ago, Twisted said:

And here is your result. Nothing

 

 

you should read up on what the purpoe of apoll is. The idea was to gauge the playerbase and it did tha... so it did exactly what it is supposed to do...

 

You expect something completely irrational here.... 

 

but we are going in circles. you thing polls should introduce change instead of simply gahering information.

[Twisted 3,112]

On 13/11/2020 at 00:19, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

well as there is still a little bit missing for being able to play helicopter sim alltogether, i really don't see the problem. (yes helos are a bit better than bombers, but really not much)

 

To me, SB Air should not be polluted by non-sim-ready vehicles. If the helos get an overhaul.... fine. If not it's the same as adding tanks: a hard pass.

 

 

 

 

This is what you wanted, and this is what your poll was about . . you just wanted to derail and you are quite happy with the result which is nothing.

 

Your objective was a meaningless poll with absolutely no chance of any positive outcome

 

And you are trying to talk down to me in defense of abject arseholery

 

You represent the exact group of clowns, because of whom SIM is ignored and nothing ever gets done.

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

6 minutes ago, Twisted said:

 

This is what you wanted, and this is what your poll was about . . you just wanted to derail and you are quite happy with the result which is nothing.

 

Nope, tat is my opinion, on helos atm.

 

Why would i make a neutral poll, which in the end showed that the community has a different opinion?

I it was about that i would have made a biased loaded poll...like you did.

 

I can live with people not agreeing with me. I can concede that the community in it's entirety has a different opinion than me.

This sounds like projection to me, as you made a biased loaded poll to skew the resut.. not me. You are the one that thinks polls should achieve your goals.

 

i only use them to objectively gauge the opinions of the players. And i can see that most people disagree with me.

 

i don't want to hide it or go ballistic if this doesn't go my way... This perfectly demnstrate why neutral polls are important, because this poll is not influenced by my opinion, i did not try to dishonestly skew the result by loaded questions. This IS the communities opinion and there is no denying that, because i used a proper poll. There is no wiggle room for me to say "oh but this poll is totall BS because of the way the questions are asked"... this was possible wih you BS poll... but not this one, this is completely neutral. And this is what it has achieved and what it was supposed to achieve, evidence of the opinion of the playerbase that cannot be disregarded.  A loaded biased poll (like yours) would never have achieved that.

 

I didn't create the poll to get a specific outcome, i did it to really get the players opinion. And to achieve that polls need to follow some criteria. I judged you attempt by these exact same criteria and it failed, it was dishonest and loaded. you also never did deny that. you even stated outright the poll should convice players...

 

6 minutes ago, Twisted said:

Your objective was a meaningless poll with absolutely no chance of any positive outcome

 

if you cannot see why a neutral objective poll isn't meaningless than this is your problem not mine.

 

6 minutes ago, Twisted said:

And you are trying to talk down to me in defense of abject arseholery

 

Nope i am trying to explain the issue, sorry if it appeared condescending, that was not the intention. But it is frustrationg if one has to repeat hiself over and over, to explain the point of polls.

 

6 minutes ago, Twisted said:

You represent the exact group of clowns, because of whom SIM is ignored and nothing ever gets done.

 

If that is the explanation yu go by... fine, i mean there is no evidence, but you obviously don't care for that anyway.

 

The more likely explanation is that the sim elements of this game require the most work, as it has a way higher level ofdetail then AB and RB, while at the same time gives the least reward due to the low playerbase... therefore it is not profitable to put work into it... 

 

But yeah, me criticising your dishonest poll was definately the reason we still have all the issues in SB like Bomber abuse... i think you use this as a convenient excuse.

[Twisted 3,112]

yes . .that was your opinion, and being a disingenuous twit who had no desire to actually see helicopters implemented, you went against the desire of the entire SIM community and derailed any possibility of such a test being conducted.

 

The rest of all your text is bull s.h.i.t  and your sole purpose was to be b.i.t.c.h and whine, as has been your habit in your entire existence in War thunder . . and just like you did in your own poll because you think that it makes you look like a pro

 

Now I don't really have any hope of Helis in SIM EC, I am just enjoying the sheer pleasure of exposing you as the complete piece of crap and poser you truly are.

 

I also hope to send a message to the crowd of losers you represent, that the current state of SIM and the inability of the community to get any thing done and get any improvements, is because of morons like you, who think they have an opinion and will ignore an easy and obvious path, because they cannot prevent their verbal diarrhea. 

 

For your information, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one . . .on special occasions, one meets an arsehole with an opinion.

 

People like that are a misery to be around and to get any thing of any value done around them is impossible, due to their consistent negativity and absence of any optimism.

 

These useless wastes of space usually end up not having any thing to offer themselves and so end up imagining themselves as critics, pretending to be knowledgeable and wise and spouting meaningless information that has nothing to do with the objective to be achieved.

 

I bring you back to the singular fact of this entire conversation

 

You achieved nothing

Edited November 16, 2020 by Twisted

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

yes . .that was your opinion, and being a disingenuous twit who had no desire to actually see helicopters implemented, you went against the desire of the entire SIM community and derailed any possibility of such a test being conducted.

 

are you serious? it seems you are projecting hard here. So lets get this straight: 

-you created a thread with a biased loaded dishonest poll so it gets the answer you desired

-i call you out on that BS

-i create a neutral unbiased poll

 

and i am disingenuous? 

 

What would you call you BS loaded poll?

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

The rest of all your text is bull s.h.i.t  and your sole purpose was to be b.i.t.c.h and whine, as has been your habit in your entire existence in War thunder . . and just like you did in your own poll because you think that it makes you look like a pro

 

Weird but i don't need to fling insults around or anything, also i am not lying that my poll is neutral and unbiased... otherwise you would have atteckd me on that angle.

 

My poll does indeed honestly reflect the players opinion, as i claimed it would and as it was my stated objective. So why would i hand you objective evidence that the playerbase does indeed want helos in EC?

Seems counterproductive to me...

 

Or maybe, and just maybe, i really don't like people being dishonest and misusing loaded fraud polls to further their goals, instead of actually asking what the playerbase wants.

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

Now I don't really have any hope of Helis in SIM EC, I am just enjoying the sheer pleasure of exposing you as the complete piece of crap and poser you truly are.

 

yeah that seems to be your priority since the first snarky remak, as there was indeed a discussion going on and you are now handed objective evidence that the community is on your side. But you are so resentful because of simple (and let's not forget appropriate) criticism, that you disregard all that just to make this a poop flinging contest.

 

You got the discussion and the proof that the community wants Helos in EC here... but now that was no longer important. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

I also hope to send a message to the crowd of losers you represent, that the current state of SIM and the inability of the community to get any thing done and get any improvements, is because of moron like you, who think they have an opinion.

 

Let's not forget that your approach that would totally have been successful was a random thread not a moderated suggestion. Don't act ike it would totally have worked.

 

And what a monster i am for using a more methodical approach instead of using dishonest polls.

 

I mean what use coud objective evidence be in any of this....

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

For your information, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one . . .on special occasions, one meets an arsehole with an opinion.

 

wow never heard hat one... and it seems your opinion is the only right one, no need to obectively ask the cmmunity for it's opinion first is it?

Because that's all i did, ask hem without trickery.

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

People like that are a misery to be around and to get any thing of any value done around them is impossible, due to their consistent negativity and absence of any optimism.

 

if your done with your psychology from womens magazines let me know. I must be the worst erson ever because i wanted the objective view of the community instead of misrepresenting them... 

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

These useless wastes of space usually end up not having any thing to offer themselves and so end imagining themselves as critics, pretending to be knowledgeable and wise and spouting meaningless information that has nothing to do with the objective to be achieved.

 

Luckily we have you, the one who knows everything, towering above us mere mortals with our flaws... We shouldn't have opinions anyway. And asking the idiot community honestly what they actually want is such a waste of time if we have you...

 

1 minute ago, Twisted said:

I bring you back to the singular fact of this entire conversation

 

You achieved nothing

 

Again, yes i am i actually get the opinion of the commmunity without dishonesty... the entire point of this exercise. Of course not a magic bullet but expecting that would be stupid.

 

But before one solves a problem you need to know one exists. Before enacting the will of the people it might be a good idea to know what this will actually is. I know you don't care for these pesky things.

[Twisted 3,112]

I will leave you to your misery

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

9 minutes ago, Twisted said:

I will leave you to your misery

 

if that's what you need to tell yourself then fine.

 

how mean of me to get the objective view of the community anyway...

[Kaasjager010 248]

So is this integration with Air SB EC still happening? Got some heli's now and not really enjoying the ground rb/sb or heli arcade EC. Heli's aren't really meant to fight other heli's. Better off being prey hiding from fixed wing and taking out ground objectives in Air SB EC. Would be fun to hide on the deck traversing large sim maps. Could spawn at airfields if implementing helipads is too much of an effort.