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1 hour ago, _Wingman_ said:

I don't want to come off as a whiny Brit main, but why the Mk 7:

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wjldhszqauy11.jpg.c2bcb3df68d8a5838fb0b4

 

instead of the Mk 7/2 (notice the turret front shape):

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valiant1.png.3aa9fa882ab22a2d52b3af347e0

 

You know, the one that was actually tested by the British in comparative tank trials, not the cheap export version.

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9OoEWVk.thumb.jpg.015319e76d8dfdad0c94bc

 

Probably because we lack info for the Mk.7/2, as claimed by Smin.

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I don't mind which variant it is so long as it's accurate really. Of which I still have my doubts...they still haven't gotten any of the British modern ones correct yet after all, and this is even less known than anything bar perhaps the Challenger 2.

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4 hours ago, Baron_Tiberius said:

Do you have a source that the turret change is the difference between the 7 and 7/2? The A.W. devblog on the mk.7 implies that the 7 was the mk.4 with the universal turret and the 7/2 was with the Leopard 2 hull. I've got a book on vickers tanks but it doesn't help clarify this distinction.

 

The Mk.7 used the Mk.4 Valiant hull with the Mk.7 universal turret:

vicmk7.png Vickers Mk.7

 

The Mk.7/1 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but an improved Mk.7 turret with better protection and improved optics: (Note the differences in terms of mantlet, turret cheek armour and optics)

However, officially the Mk.7 name was kept by Vickers as the tank pictured above had already been proven as unsuitable due to the aluminium hull. 

 

mk7_4.png Vickers Mk.7/1

 

The Mk.7/2 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but with improved armour package (Rheinmetall didnt like this) and further improved Mk.7 turret with even better protection: (Note the turret cheek armour and mantlet change as well as the relocation of the smoke dischargers to the side of the turret bustle)

 

valiant1.png Vickers Mk.7/2

 

Hopefully this clears up the confusion. 

Edited by _Fear_Naught_
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1 hour ago, _Fear_Naught_ said:

 

The Mk.7 used the Mk.4 Valiant hull with the Mk.7 universal turret:

vicmk7.png Vickers Mk.7

 

The Mk.7/1 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but an improved Mk.7 turret with better protection and improved optics: (Note the differences in terms of mantlet, turret cheek armour and optics)

However, officially the Mk.7 name was kept by Vickers as the tank pictured above had already been proven as unsuitable due to the aluminium hull. 

 

mk7_4.png Vickers Mk.7/1

 

The Mk.7/2 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but with improved armour package (Rheinmetall didnt like this) and further improved Mk.7 turret with even better protection: (Note the turret cheek armour and mantlet change as well as the relocation of the smoke dischargers to the side of the turret bustle)

 

valiant1.png Vickers Mk.7/2

 

Hopefully this clears up the confusion. 

Person: Which Vickers Mk 7?

Vickers: "Yes"

Edited by TerikG2014

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1 hour ago, _Fear_Naught_ said:

 

The Mk.7 used the Mk.4 Valiant hull with the Mk.7 universal turret:

vicmk7.png Vickers Mk.7

 

The Mk.7/1 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but an improved Mk.7 turret with better protection and improved optics: (Note the differences in terms of mantlet, turret cheek armour and optics)

However, officially the Mk.7 name was kept by Vickers as the tank pictured above had already been proven as unsuitable due to the aluminium hull. 

 

mk7_4.png Vickers Mk.7/1

 

The Mk.7/2 uses the Leo hull and MTU power pack but with improved armour package (Rheinmetall didnt like this) and further improved Mk.7 turret with even better protection: (Note the turret cheek armour and mantlet change as well as the relocation of the smoke dischargers to the side of the turret bustle)

 

valiant1.png Vickers Mk.7/2

 

Hopefully this clears up the confusion. 

Rheinmetall was not the designer of the leopard 2 it was Krauss maffei. Why would rheinmetall not like it when the hull is nothing to do with them?

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1 hour ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

Rheinmetall was not the designer of the leopard 2 it was Krauss maffei. Why would rheinmetall not like it when the hull is nothing to do with them?

My bad im getting confused with the gun manufacturer. Basically the manufacturer of the hull did not like it and rescinded the offer for the hull mid trials for the Mk.7/2

Edited by _Fear_Naught_
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10 minutes ago, Panzerzwerg said:

So basically what we're getting is the Mk.7/1 with the worse armour of the Mk.7?

Not exactly but something similar. It'll be a carbon copy Leo2A4 hull with what looks like a Mk.7/1 turret with the protection level of the Mk.7 turret if you understand what I mean. Like all the CR turrets it'll be full of holes anyway.  

Edited by _Fear_Naught_
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8 minutes ago, _Fear_Naught_ said:

Not exactly but something similar. It'll be a carbon copy Leo2A4 hull with what looks like a Mk.7/1 turret with the protection level of the Mk.7 turret if you understand what I mean. Like all the CR turrets it'll be full of holes anyway.  

is there data on the difference in weight between Mk.7 / 1 and Mk.7 / 2?

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2 hours ago, SkyRAY said:

is there data on the difference in weight between Mk.7 / 1 and Mk.7 / 2?

There is yeah... in the archive documentation at Bovington. Like I've said earlier in this thread I read through the available information on this vehicle but that was a while ago and I cant remember specific figures for even one of the vehicles nevermind all three. What I do remember though is the information that is held in the archives is full of holes. It was explained to me that this is because these tanks never went beyond the single production tank / prototype phase and all associated information went to the company archive. When Vickers as a company got bought out by BAE in 2004 ,if I remember correctly, most of their archive disappeared. More than likely somewhere in the BAE archives now. The same can be said for the vehicles themselves. Pretty much all of them are still company owned and a few are now at the tank museum but only a couple of early models before the Mk.7. Only certain bits and pieces of information were given to the archives at Bovington which are not exactly open to the public either so information is scarce to say the least. Online information about the tanks is vague and confused as to which variant they are talking about and most sites don't even differentiate between them.

Edited by _Fear_Naught_
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4 hours ago, _Fear_Naught_ said:

There is yeah... in the archive documentation at Bovington. Like I've said earlier in this thread I read through the available information on this vehicle but that was a while ago and I cant remember specific figures for even one of the vehicles nevermind all three. What I do remember though is the information that is held in the archives is full of holes. It was explained to me that this is because these tanks never went beyond the single production tank / prototype phase and all associated information went to the company archive. When Vickers as a company got bought out by BAE in 2004 ,if I remember correctly, most of their archive disappeared. More than likely somewhere in the BAE archives now. The same can be said for the vehicles themselves. Pretty much all of them are still company owned and a few are now at the tank museum but only a couple of early models before the Mk.7. Only certain bits and pieces of information were given to the archives at Bovington which are not exactly open to the public either so information is scarce to say the least. Online information about the tanks is vague and confused as to which variant they are talking about and most sites don't even differentiate between them.

it would be great if there were any data on the weight of these machines, because the hull of the leopard 2A0 ... 4 has a lot of information.

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So how did people find it on the Dev sever any issues with I didn't pick up on much as I didn't have much time?

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On 22/10/2019 at 19:57, _Fear_Naught_ said:

 

The Mk.7 used the Mk.4 Valiant hull with the Mk.7 universal turret:

vicmk7.png Vickers Mk.7

 

I don't know where you get these information but this is wrong.

 

Firstly, this is an actual picture of the Mk. 4 Valiant that that can be found in the Ogorkiewicz's article about the Valiant.

 

1572105049-vickers-valiant-armor-1.jpg

 

 

Secondly, the design of the Universal Turret evolved throughout the Mk. 4 development/marketing.

 

1979-1980 exhibition (at that time it was only named Mark 4 and armed with a L7 gun) :

 

1572105803-vickers-mk-4-valiant-prototyp

 

1572166905-2egdvng.jpg

 

Renamed Valiant in 1982 due to the new look of the improved Universal Turret fitted with the L11 gun :

 

1572106163-mk-4-valiant-with-a-l11-gun.j

 

 

Thirdly, the book The Vickers Tanks, From Landships to Challenger clearly states that the Vickers Mk. 7 always used a German Leopard 2 chassis.

 

Edited by Auto_tracking
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So from the 1st Dev server I noticed that the Vickers Mk7 MBT had more NERA in the turret than Challenger 1 so shouldn't it have slightly better turret Armour than Challenger 1.

 

Vickers Mk7 MBT.

 

- 35mm high hardiness RHA

- 600mm NERA

- 20mm RHA

 

Challenger 1 MK2.

 

- 50mm RHA

- 300mm NERA

- 110mm CHA

 

?

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16 hours ago, duckmartin said:

So from the 1st Dev server I noticed that the Vickers Mk7 MBT had more NERA in the turret than Challenger 1 so shouldn't it have slightly better turret Armour than Challenger 1.

 

Vickers Mk7 MBT.

 

- 35mm high hardiness RHA

- 600mm NERA

- 20mm RHA

 

Challenger 1 MK2.

 

- 50mm RHA

- 300mm NERA

- 110mm CHA

 

?

Considering to the NERA in Challenger1's UFP armor we know that British NERA is useless as air .:facepalm:

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17 hours ago, Louise_So_schoen said:

 is useless as air .:facepalm:

 

We need air :vanga:

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On 10/28/2019 at 1:26 AM, duckmartin said:

So from the 1st Dev server I noticed that the Vickers Mk7 MBT had more NERA in the turret than Challenger 1 so shouldn't it have slightly better turret Armour than Challenger 1.

 

Vickers Mk7 MBT.

 

- 35mm high hardiness RHA

- 600mm NERA

- 20mm RHA

 

Challenger 1 MK2.

 

- 50mm RHA

- 300mm NERA

- 110mm CHA

 

?

Challenger has ~ 275 mm NERA(?). the package should consist of: 50 mm steel + 275 mm filler + 20 mm steel + 30 mm air gap + 110 mm steel (cast)
In LOS: 787 mm (31 in.)
LOS package with NERA: 447 mm.

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1 hour ago, Louise_So_schoen said:

Have you got a 100% correct evidence ? Comrade !

if desired, all this can be estimated from the drawings which are enough on the Internet;)

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On 26/10/2019 at 17:13, Auto_tracking said:

I don't know where you get these information but this is wrong.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my explanation...

 

What I was trying to say.... 

 

On 22/10/2019 at 18:57, _Fear_Naught_ said:

However, officially the Mk.7 name was kept

 

Is that what the Leo 2 hulled Mk.7 is the Mk.7 which is why there is no Mk.7/1 officially and it jumps straight to the Mk.7/2 from the Mk.7. Because the Valiant was cancelled due to the hull not being able to handle the characteristics of the new turret since the hull was made from aluminium and prone to fracture due to the turret weight and forces applied on the hull when firing. Upon reviewing the post maybe I didn't explain the point that well as it was a complex read.

 

I was just showing where the Mk.7 originated from to highlight the point that the turret essentially went through 3 major stages of development to the point it was installed on the Mk.7/2. The hull went through 2, both Leo2A4, with different armour array in the one for the Mk.7/2.

 

Now that it is in the game... I did a 3 second check and laughed my **** off at the mantlet amongst other things... feeling awfully familiar and hate to say it but....

 

On 22/10/2019 at 21:57, _Fear_Naught_ said:
On 22/10/2019 at 21:48, Panzerzwerg said:

So basically what we're getting is the Mk.7/1 with the worse armour of the Mk.7?

Not exactly but something similar. It'll be a carbon copy Leo2A4 hull with what looks like a Mk.7/1 turret with the protection level of the Mk.7 turret if you understand what I mean. Like all the CR turrets it'll be full of holes anyway. 

 

Told you so 

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