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AA on ships way to accurate


kongman27
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planes seem to be getting relegated to an interesting time killer when you have lost all your ships

i am more than happy with that .. its a ship scenario and planes should not control the game

 

i also laud their move to have some of the low tier games ships only

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I do agree plane´s should have role in this game. But same time it´s just hard to balance it as in real life when you fly plane and start bombing run. You wont be calm and do kamikaze like japanese did order to sink the ship. Hey in this game majorty bombing runs to tanks are ww2 kamikaze pilots who ram and drop them bomb. Try order brittish or american pilot practice ram and drop the bomb enemy ground tank. They wont do it. Also staticly there were lot of factors what ruined lot of air operations like flaks, heavy anti-air etc. Hell even mg´s of tank´s made lot of issues to pilots who tried to bomb enemy ground forces. Where they could not hit accurate way because fear of death.

Edited by elite930
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I would love my maxed out cruiser gunners to actually be way better than they curretnly are.

Those ships have a ton of AA and most fighters have 0 difficulties to not only launch torps at me but are able to drop bombs right on top of my ship.

If you see how many planes usually attacked a big ship irl you would think that a single plane should be easy to stop. Sure in some cases they work on great distances but maybe that is due to VT-Fuses. My time fuses on the german 88 just can't hit a bomber flying high in a straight line but I have no idea what could be done to tune them but prevent them from beeing OP.

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The only ships that are capable of reliably sniping from 4+ km distant are those with HE-VT.

 

According to the Navweaps article on the Mk. 12 dual-purpose gun (easily the finest anti-aircraft system during WW2):

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.php

image.thumb.png.b223532471cf5ace56935aed

Against a single aircraft, achieving kills at that distance isn't exactly difficult. It seems ship AAA is working as intended. It is essentially multiple OTOMATIC autocannons firing at your plane at once.

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On 14/08/2019 at 06:02, kongman27 said:

i can imagine close up pretty deadly , but get killed 3-4 km from the target is hard to believe 

 

Actually the AA on player controlled ships is fine in my opinion. Otherwise it would be way to easy for planes, especially the ones with bombs and torpedos :-)


However, the AA capabilities of AI controlled vessels is ridiculous. I'm regularly getting sniped by them from kilometers away. Even if they are just small patrol boats and i'm in 2500++ meters altitude, they often kil me with one hit.

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I have mixed feelings (from a high tier perspective, 3.0+)

 

There are times where I'm very effective at shooting down aircraft and able to survive a few aircraft attacks with little or sometimes no damage taken. Granted, most of the time pilots aren't making it that difficult when they fly in a straight line at medium-high altitude. But then again, there are times when I am scoring air kills and its 100% my ai-controlled gunners doing all the work which I get the frustrations my players have with it.

 

On the otherhand, I do think it's effectiveness is about right. I mean, with how devastating torpedoes and bombs are against large ships, I don't think it would be healthy for the game if planes were able to stomp on ships with even more ease. And ignoring the torp/bomb damage, I don't think flying is that difficult even with the AA as is.

 

Now as a pilot, I do get shot down a lot but more often than not, I am usually dragging someone with me. While it's not ideal to trade a kill for a kill, being able to knockout the other team's toughest ships with relative ease cannot be understated. And I do mean relative ease.  90% of my deaths are well after I released my ordnance and most of the time, I am scoring a kill... The times I don't get the kill are mostly because I miss or I'm going too fast for the torpedo (explodes on contact with water). It is rather rare that I do not get my ordnance dropped... When I die it's usually right after I pass over the ship and begin to turn for cover (if available, like islands and stuff...)  If you fly in a straight line at a decent altitude, you'll get shot down a lot. But if you fly low, fast and use islands for cover, most of the times the enemy ship just does not have enough time to get adequate fire on you and by the time they do, it's too late for them...

 

My advice is to get low and use islands as much as possible. I try to cruise under 50m, use my speed and islands to close the distance.  Also, avoid clusters of ships if at all possible. Try to pick off a straggler.

 

Edit: I should say, as a pilot, my planes are using the improved torpedoes (which allow you to drop up to 518kmh). That's where a good bulk of my air kills are coming from.

Edited by Al_Capwned
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18 hours ago, Al_Capwned said:

I have mixed feelings (from a high tier perspective, 3.0+)

 

There are times where I'm very effective at shooting down aircraft and able to survive a few aircraft attacks with little or sometimes no damage taken. Granted, most of the time pilots aren't making it that difficult when they fly in a straight line at medium-high altitude. But then again, there are times when I am scoring air kills and its 100% my ai-controlled gunners doing all the work which I get the frustrations my players have with it.

 

On the otherhand, I do think it's effectiveness is about right. I mean, with how devastating torpedoes and bombs are against large ships, I don't think it would be healthy for the game if planes were able to stomp on ships with even more ease. And ignoring the torp/bomb damage, I don't think flying is that difficult even with the AA as is.

 

Now as a pilot, I do get shot down a lot but more often than not, I am usually dragging someone with me. While it's not ideal to trade a kill for a kill, being able to knockout the other team's toughest ships with relative ease cannot be understated. And I do mean relative ease.  90% of my deaths are well after I released my ordnance and most of the time, I am scoring a kill... The times I don't get the kill are mostly because I miss or I'm going too fast for the torpedo (explodes on contact with water). It is rather rare that I do not get my ordnance dropped... When I die it's usually right after I pass over the ship and begin to turn for cover (if available, like islands and stuff...)  If you fly in a straight line at a decent altitude, you'll get shot down a lot. But if you fly low, fast and use islands for cover, most of the times the enemy ship just does not have enough time to get adequate fire on you and by the time they do, it's too late for them...

 

My advice is to get low and use islands as much as possible. I try to cruise under 50m, use my speed and islands to close the distance.  Also, avoid clusters of ships if at all possible. Try to pick off a straggler.

 

Edit: I should say, as a pilot, my planes are using the improved torpedoes (which allow you to drop up to 518kmh). That's where a good bulk of my air kills are coming from.

 

In general it is pretty easy to destroy destroyers or (even easier sometimes) light cruisers in a single engine plane using some fancy manouvers. It's pretty easy in - for example - the FW 190 F-8 and it's 1000kg bomb and in many cases you even get a away with it, just to get shot down by an AI controlled vessel on your way back to the airfield. It's harder for me doing this with torpedos, but mainly because you have to drop most of them with a speed below 280 km/h in naval RB (except some british and us ones). So i don't get when people in planes get frustrated, especially if you read how many planes it took in reality to destroy a well protected vessel, except in some crazy cases like fairey swordfish approaching the battleship Bismarck.

And as you said, if you enter dangerous areas (patrol boat zone) with mountains and other obstacles in your DD or light cruiser, you are doing those planes a huge favor. But in open water it would be a joke if they could reach your ship without any trouble.

On the other hand, i completely understand people (including myself) getting salty who spawn a bomber with horrendous repair costs just to get sniped with a single shot by AI ships at high altitude.

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I'm getting killed mostly by planes, if I play DDs or CLs. The main problem is that planes are killed easily, bit they almost always manage to crash into your ship and drop the bomb or torp just a second before impact.

 

When I intend to bomb a DD or cruiser, I'll also sink it in most cases. It's pretty easy to fool the AA with up and downs. You will always get into drop range. Also most air torpedos can be used as bomb and thrown directs into/onto the ship.

Edited by Thodin
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They seem super inconsistent. Sometimes I kill/get killed from 3-4km away with some magic radar guided shots, sometimes I dive right in for ships/have people dive me and the gunners somehow miss all their shots, and I die unless I kill them myself. I just want some damn consistency.

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just played a bunch of arcade naval matches and have to say it's ridiculous how strong planes are there with extremely fast torpedos (especially on large targets, dropped at a very high speed), crazy manouvering and easily dropped bombs that reload in a few seconds.
I thought the naval RB mode feels arcade enough, but this is insane :-) So in my opinion, gunners are not overpowered at all.

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Planes are nothing but an annoyance. You kill someone in your cruisers? They spawn in a torpedo bomber, and suicide rush you to death in revenge. If anything I'd love AI gunners to be able to actually hit planes before they can revenge bomb ships.

 

However, I agree that AI gunners are very inconsistent. Sometimes I end up with swatting 4 planes, another time, the same ship gets blown apart by the first plane that it couldn't hit with half a minute of constant shooting.

 

I would also like AI shooting surface vessels to be a little more accurate too, not too accurate, just enough to at least hit every now and then at ranges greater than point blank. Though this could lead into problems like all seeing AI making sneaking impossible, and taking some skill out of equation too. But against aircraft, the more aircraft are swatted out of sky, the merrier!

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Planes can be annoying enough as it is. Especially those that go for revenge kamikaze bombs. Or if one catches you off guard then you're basically dead. We don't need planes to become any more powerful and take over the mode.

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The answer to this question, which is both a nerf and buff for ship anti-air, is to increase their spread so they can hit maneuvering targets more easily, while reducing their DPS to unaware aircrafts.

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2 hours ago, kololz said:

The answer to this question, which is both a nerf and buff for ship anti-air, is to increase their spread so they can hit maneuvering targets more easily, while reducing their DPS to unaware aircrafts.

Seems counterproductive to nerf the skillful pilots and buff the braindead ones

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7 hours ago, ReimuHakurei_ said:

Seems counterproductive to nerf the skillful pilots and buff the braindead ones

Shaking mouse randomly isn't exactly "skillful".

 

Another question is that twin engine bombers will be useless at torpedo run and skip-bombing because they can't do sharp manoeuvre by shaking mouse, which means they stand no chance to get in drop distance unless covered by terrains.

 

Also, from the perspective of "productive", increasing AI accuracy seems to buff the brain-dead ship players on the other side. 

Edited by HK_Reporter
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12 hours ago, ReimuHakurei_ said:

Seems counterproductive to nerf the skillful pilots and buff the braindead ones

 

Well do be fair, dodging anti-air right now is much easier than playing yourself against animal spirits in some sort of Japanese bullet hell shooter.

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how about nerfing the AA capabilities of AI controlled ships and keep those on player controlled vessels? It's just ridiculous if on a confrontation map those AI patrol boats drive against mountains and islands but snipe you in high distance on the other hand.

By the way, do you guys notice a big difference on expert / ace crews regarding aaa accuracy compared to beginner crews?
I don't unterstand the unit of measure when it comes to the "AAA gunner accuracy" or "auxiliary gunner accuracy" since it is in percentage...
for example: top for 20mm Oerlikon  Mk. II cannon on the River class is 0.08%.
My crew currently has 2 points + 3 (expert crew) in this "skill", means 0.12% (Base = 0.16%).
What does that mean / how to read it?

Thanks in advance

Edited by Yakrider
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20 minutes ago, Yakrider said:

how about nerfing the AA capabilities of AI controlled ships and keep those on player controlled vessels? It's just ridiculous if on a confrontation map those AI patrol boats drive against mountains and islands but snipe you in high distance on the other hand.

 

Ah, yes, the AI ships. The worst nightmare to aircrafts. Yes please, their main guns should prioritize any naval targets they see over aircrafts.

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8 hours ago, kololz said:

 

Ah, yes, the AI ships. The worst nightmare to aircrafts. Yes please, their main guns should prioritize any naval targets they see over aircrafts.

I'd rather not get shot by Pr59s for ten years honestly. Just nerf their accuracy and rate of fire (to simulate ranging shots and splash spotting) and keep them pointed away from me

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In the actual state of the game it feels like either the AA is overwhelming opressive and kills planes flying at 2-3 km altitude in one shot or is just doing nothing at all. it feels really weird and unpredictable.

 

Even though i don't want planes to dominate naval battles, i would like to see the naval AA to be more realistic (establishing a Flak screen) instead of shooting down planes with pin point accuracy. This way the planes can't get too close and might have to drop their torpedos for example at higher distances, which decreases their accuracy.

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  • The accuracy of AI anti-aircraft gunners has been reduced.

Literally the one thing that they shouldn't have done, they did it. Sigh. Hope you guys like kamikaze revenge bombers because they're about to get even worse.

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