TM_06

Ki-44-IIIa Kou - Demon Slayer

Would you like to see this aircraft in game?  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see this aircraft in game?

    • Yes!
      60
    • No...
      2
    • I don't know yet.
      1
  2. 2. What BR do you think this should be at?

    • 4.3
      34
    • 4.7
      18
    • 5.0
      7
    • 5.3
      4
  3. 3. Should the Ki-44-IIIb be added?

    • Yes, as a premium.
      17
    • Yes, as part of the regular tree.
      43
    • No.
      2
    • Not sure.
      1
  4. 4. What BR do you think the Ki-44-IIIb should be at?

    • 4.3
      19
    • 4.7
      13
    • 5.0
      7
    • 5.3
      4
  5. 5. Would you like to see the Ki-44-III prototype added?

    • Yes!
      39
    • No...
      4
  6. 6. What BR do you think the prototype should be at?

    • 3.3
      9
    • 3.7
      15
    • 4.0
      8
    • 4.3
      11


   113069-5e01067deefabeac820aecff77dd0d91.

Artist's rendition of what the aircraft would look like

 

Hello everyone! I would like to propose the Ki-44-III, specifically the Ki-44-IIIa Kou Shoki. The Nakajima Ki-44-III was a major upgrade to the already potent Ki-44-II interceptor, designed to be a better counter to the American B-29 Superfortress bombers. It was powered by a 2,000 HP Ha-145 radial (also known as the Ha-45), the IJAAF variant of the well known Ha-45 Homare that powered the Ki-84 and N1K fighters, and featured ejector-type thrust augmentation exhaust stacks. To deal with the new powerplant, it had its wing thickness increased by 70 cm and its wing area increased by 19 square meters and every model after the second prototype had a wing area of 21 m2, along with rudder and elevator area increased and a larger vertical tail. The 3-bladed constant-speed metal propeller was replaced with a 4-bladed constant-speed metal propeller to provide more thrust and make the most out of the engine. The first aircraft was armed with the same armaments as the prototype, but was later replaced by 4 x 20 mm Ho-5 cannons in a model dubbed Ki-44-IIIa or Kou. A variant mounting two 37 mm Ho-203 cannons mounted in under-wing pylons and two 20 mm Ho-5 cannons in the nose dubbed Ki-44-IIIb or Ko Otsu existed, but was canceled in January 1945 when the Shoki went out of production. Official tests were conducted in 1943 against the Ki-84, and the Shoki was found to be inferior to the Hayate so the order was canceled. Now i must say that this aircraft did indeed exist, but there is almost no information on it or even proper pictures.

 

Characteristics

General characteristics:

  • Crew: One
  • Wingspan: 19 m2

            - Every model after the second prototype had a wingspan of 21 m2

  • Weight: 2,886 kg
  • Operational Range: 2,000 km
  • Powerplant: Nakajima Ha-45-21 18-cylinder radial, 2,000 HP on takeoff, 1,880 hp at 2,000 m, 1,450 hp at 8,000 m.

 

Perfomance characteristics:

  • Top speed: 660 - 680 km/h (410 - 422 mph)
  • Cruising speed: 605 km/h (376 mph)
  • Stall speed: 151 km/h (94 mph)
  • Service Ceiling: 11,000 m
  • Rate-of-climb: 20.1 m/s
  • Armament: Main production version - 4 x Ho-5 20 mm cannons, two in wings and two in cowling. 150 rpg, 750 rounds per minute, 750 m/s muzzle velocity.

              - Or 2 x Ho-5 20 mm cannons in the cowling and two Ho-203 37 mm cannons mounted in underwing pylons on the Ko Otsu variant. The Ho-203's had a muzzle velocity of 570 m/s and a firing speed of 100 rpm.

              - 4 x 12.7 mm machine guns in the cowling and the wings in the first prototype

  • Underwing hardpoints: 2 x 50 kg bombs or 2 x 100 kg bombs.

Images:
 

Sources:

Book sources (thanks lineins!):

  • 『航空情報』1956年3月号
  • 『航空ファン』1961年7月号
  • 『ミリタリー選書14  日本陸軍の試作・計画機 1943~1945 』
  • 『航空ファン1981年7月号』
  •  Mr. 秋本実『日本の戦闘機』
  • 『日本航空機大図鑑 : 1910年-1945年 中巻 』
Edited by TM_06
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Open for discussion. :salute:

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3 hours ago, leroyonly said:

Open for discussion. :salute:

Thank you! :salute:

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Whereabouts is the performance for this aircraft in the source you provided? What page? I remember looking for information about this aircraft a while back but the performance as far as I am aware was not available? But otherwise, support +1

 

Attached what I have.

 

Spoiler

bbbbbbb.png

 

 

Spoiler

Escanear0005.jpg

 

 

Spoiler

Escanear0015.jpg

 

 

Spoiler

Escanear0016.jpg

 

 

Spoiler

Ki-44 with individual exchausts.jpg

 

 

Spoiler

unled1fn.png

 

Edited by CherryBlossom
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23 minutes ago, CherryBlossom said:

Whereabouts is the performance for this aircraft in the source you provided? What page? I remember looking for information about this aircraft a while back but the performance as far as I am aware was not available? But otherwise, support +1

 

Attached what I have.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Escanear0005.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

bbbbbbb.png

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Escanear0015.jpg

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Escanear0016.jpg

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ki-44 with individual exchausts.jpg

 

  Reveal hidden contents

unled1fn.png

 

 

Whoa, thats a lot of information. Thanks for that stuff! i wasnt able to find a good amount of info on the aircraft, but the only performance i was able to find was projected performance on a seperate source that i forgot to link, and now i can't seem to find. Would it be appropriate to remove the performance?

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This is the material I examined before.
Forgive me for my translation because I am busy and have no time.

 

source

1980 Book name 『日本陸軍機の計画物語』

Author  Army Aviation Technology Laboratory Deputy Director of Department 1 Mr.Andou  陸軍航空技術研究所第一部第二科長 安藤 成雄


 

Spoiler

 

 

 

0ttPt2R.jpg

 

Ha-145を装着してKi-44-IIIとして1943年12月に審査を完了。

With Ha-145 installed, examination was completed in December 1943 as Ki-44-III.

 

 

Date 1941/10/10

WWHcACr.jpg

 

Document name 『陸軍機の基礎計画資料その他の表』

“Basic Plan Data and Other Tables for Army Aircraft”

Date 1971/1

lYNR1qd.jpg

 

 

 

 

Official material showing performance
Book name 『陸軍航空技術沿革史』
“History of Army Aviation Technology History”

Date 1947

 

Spoiler

 

k7qAOMo.jpg

 

TQUrFQx.jpg

 

FQkJdvZ.jpg

 

 

 

Test pilot testimony

Pilot name  Mr. 吉沢鶴寿
 

Spoiler

 

Book name  『航空情報』1956年3月号

 

 

2aFRjH8.jpg

Book name『航空ファン』1961年7月号

 

6S9U0nP.jpg

 

 

 

 

A book describing that this aircraft actually existed.


 

Spoiler

 

Book name 『ミリタリー選書14  日本陸軍の試作・計画機 1943~1945

kxwWysG.jpg

 

Book name 『航空ファン1981年7月号』

                   Mr. 秋本実『日本の戦闘機』

 

P1m3vCc.jpg

 

Book name 『日本航空機大図鑑 : 1910年-1945年 中巻

dI4OQvJ.jpg

 

Book name 『 世界の傑作機 No16』

 

 

0IwUFkO.jpg

 

 

 

The reason I can't translate is that my daily life is so busy now that I don't have much time.
I'm really sorry.

 

 

Many documents in Japan describe the maximum speed of this aircraft as 665km / h at 5,800m.

 

The engine on board the aircraft is named Ha-145, but it is very likely that it is different from the Ha-145 we know.
Ha-45 has been renamed several times during the testing phase.
Therefore, there is a high possibility that the names in the currently remaining materials are a mixture of those before and after modification.

 

It is speculated that it was after 1944 that Ha-145 was recognized as Ha-45-43.
Before that, Ha-45 may have been Ha-45-11 and Ha-145 may have been Ha-45-21.

 

Ki-44-III completed the review in December 1943.
Therefore, Ha-145 at this point is likely to point to Ha-45-21, which is an updated version of Ha-45 (-11) if it follows IJA naming conventions.

 

Ki-44 had a third performance improvement plan.
There is a description in a research report on the next fighter development produced by Mr. Ando in October 1941.
There, the second performance improvement type equipped with Ha-45 aims at 650-680km / h at 5800m, and the third performance improvement type with engine replacement aims at 740km / h at an altitude of 9300m It was described.
Ha-45-43 has the feature that it can output higher than altitude 6000m at altitude 9300m.
For this reason, the information that Ha-45-43 was installed in ki-44-III may have been confused with this information.

 

By the way, you may be wondering that the maximum speed of ki-44-III is 665km / h, which is faster than 624km / h of ki-84.
However, ki-84's data of 624km / h is very early data with Ha-45-11, and after few weeks with the same engine is recording 630km / h. 
The mass-produced ki-84otu equipped with Ha-45-21 has recorded 660km / h, and it has recorded 680km / h in the flight test conducted in Mitaka at the end of the war.
Therefore, it is no wonder that ki-44-III records 665km / h.

Edited by Lineins
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5 hours ago, Lineins said:

This is the material I examined before.
Forgive me for my translation because I am busy and have no time.

 

source

1980 Book name 『日本陸軍機の計画物語』

Author  Army Aviation Technology Laboratory Deputy Director of Department 1 Mr.Andou  陸軍航空技術研究所第一部第二科長 安藤 成雄


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

0ttPt2R.jpg

 

Ha-145を装着してKi-44-IIIとして1943年12月に審査を完了。

With Ha-145 installed, examination was completed in December 1943 as Ki-44-III.

 

 

Date 1941/10/10

WWHcACr.jpg

 

Document name 『陸軍機の基礎計画資料その他の表』

“Basic Plan Data and Other Tables for Army Aircraft”

Date 1971/1

lYNR1qd.jpg

 

 

 

 

Official material showing performance
Book name 『陸軍航空技術沿革史』
“History of Army Aviation Technology History”

Date 1947

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

k7qAOMo.jpg

 

TQUrFQx.jpg

 

FQkJdvZ.jpg

 

 

 

Test pilot testimony

Pilot name  Mr. 吉沢鶴寿
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Book name  『航空情報』1956年3月号

 

 

2aFRjH8.jpg

Book name『航空ファン』1961年7月号

 

6S9U0nP.jpg

 

 

 

 

A book describing that this aircraft actually existed.


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Book name 『ミリタリー選書14  日本陸軍の試作・計画機 1943~1945

kxwWysG.jpg

 

Book name 『航空ファン1981年7月号』

                   Mr. 秋本実『日本の戦闘機』

 

P1m3vCc.jpg

 

Book name 『日本航空機大図鑑 : 1910年-1945年 中巻

dI4OQvJ.jpg

 

Book name 『 世界の傑作機 No16』

 

 

0IwUFkO.jpg

 

 

 

The reason I can't translate is that my daily life is so busy now that I don't have much time.
I'm really sorry.

 

 

Many documents in Japan describe the maximum speed of this aircraft as 665km / h at 5,800m.

 

The engine on board the aircraft is named Ha-145, but it is very likely that it is different from the Ha-145 we know.
Ha-45 has been renamed several times during the testing phase.
Therefore, there is a high possibility that the names in the currently remaining materials are a mixture of those before and after modification.

 

It is speculated that it was after 1944 that Ha-145 was recognized as Ha-45-43.
Before that, Ha-45 may have been Ha-45-11 and Ha-145 may have been Ha-45-21.

 

Ki-44-III completed the review in December 1943.
Therefore, Ha-145 at this point is likely to point to Ha-45-21, which is an updated version of Ha-45 (-11) if it follows IJA naming conventions.

 

Ki-44 had a third performance improvement plan.
There is a description in a research report on the next fighter development produced by Mr. Ando in October 1941.
There, the second performance improvement type equipped with Ha-45 aims at 650-680km / h at 5800m, and the third performance improvement type with engine replacement aims at 740km / h at an altitude of 9300m It was described.
Ha-45-43 has the feature that it can output higher than altitude 6000m at altitude 9300m.
For this reason, the information that Ha-45-43 was installed in ki-44-III may have been confused with this information.

 

By the way, you may be wondering that the maximum speed of ki-44-III is 665km / h, which is faster than 624km / h of ki-84.
However, ki-84's data of 624km / h is very early data with Ha-45-11, and after few weeks with the same engine is recording 630km / h. 
The mass-produced ki-84otu equipped with Ha-45-21 has recorded 660km / h, and it has recorded 680km / h in the flight test conducted in Mitaka at the end of the war.
Therefore, it is no wonder that ki-44-III records 665km / h.

Incredible work on this! thank you for your research, i will try to get those documents translated as soon as i can. 

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On 15/08/2019 at 16:50, Lineins said:

This is the material I examined before.
-snip-

This is bloody excellent stuff, I did not even come close to getting the information you have. The perks of having access to Japanese records!

 

You should redirect this to secret projects forum as I am sure they would find this very useful as well. 

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Translated as much as possible.


 

Spoiler

 

Book name  『航空情報』1956年3月号

 

Interview with test pilot

 

Mr.Baba: Here is a quick review of Nakajima fighters and their opinions. First about Ki-44 before Ki-84.

Mr.Yoshizawa(ki-44-III's test pilot): When I was interviewed by GHQ in January 1946, the Australian Major asked me a lot about Ki-44.

Mr.Koyama(Ki-43、Ki-44、Ki-84's development chief): I was in trouble with an unpopular airplane in Japan.

Mr.Baba: Mr. Kuroe (Major) praised this aircraft.

Mr.Koyama: It's natural for such an experienced pilot to have such an assessment.

Mr.Yoshizawa: I agree. However, it is not an airplane that anyone can ride. Ki-44-III was tested by extending its wings and tails compared to the previous model, but it was much improved.

 

 

Book name『航空ファン』1961年7月号

 

Interview with test pilot

 

Mr.Yoshizawa: I also tested the Ki-44 counter rotating propeller testing machine. Before that, I've tried how to make Ki-44 easier to use.
After all, to make the Ki-44 easier to use, it was better to make the rudder heavier.
In particular, the helm of the elevator and the rudder will be made heavier, and the stability plate will be enlarged to increase stability. If possible, increase the wing area. Then, Ki-44 can be made much easier to use, so I actually tried it.
Regarding the wing area, the tip wing has been greatly extended. The span has increased by about 700 mm on both sides. Then, the trailing edge of the elevator was increased and heavier to improve the effectiveness of the rudder. The leading edge of the rudder was also enlarged.
We named the aircraft with these modifications as Ki-44-III.

 

Book name 『ミリタリー選書14  日本陸軍の試作・計画機 1943~1945 』

 

Ki-44-III-Kou
A performance-enhancement model that produced a small number of aircraft at the end of the war. Replaced the engine with a 2000-horsepower Ha-145 and changed the propellers to four. The main wing has been expanded to 19㎡ and the shape of the rudder has been changed to improve the effectiveness of the rudder.
Four 20㎜ Ho-5 cannons were installed in the nose and left and right main wings.

Ki-44-III-Otu
A performance-enhancement model that produced a small number of aircraft at the end of the war. The improvements are the same as Kou, but the armament has been changed.
Two 20㎜Ho-5 cannons were mounted on the nose and 2 37㎜Ho-203 cannon on the  wings.

 

Book name 『航空ファン1981年7月号』

 

Ki-44-III was changed from a collective exhaust pipe to a thrust single exhaust pipe. To improve take-off and landing performance, the total width was extended by 70 cm and the wing area was increased to 19 ㎡. The review was completed in December 1943. Although the main wing area was increased by 4 ㎡, the takeoff and landing performance could not be sufficiently improved at this level. In Type-III, the area of the rudder and elevator as well as the main wing has been increased, improving the effectiveness of the rudder.
There are two types of Type-III, Kou and Otu, and it is said that Kou has 4 20㎜ cannons, Otu has 2 20㎜ cannons and 2 37㎜ Ho-203 cannons.


Book name Mr. 秋本実『日本の戦闘機』

 

A few aircraft called Ki-44-III were made. This airframe is a performance-enhancement model that has been replaced by an air-cooled star type 14-cylinder Ha109 to an 18-cylinder Ha145 to increase the wing area to 19 square meters.
The wingspan increased by 70cm, and the plane shape of the main wing naturally changed, but the shape of the tail also changed because the area of the rudder and elevator was increased.
The fuselage weight was 2886 kg, and the change in takeoff and landing did not change much even if the wing area was increased by increasing the weight. The effectiveness of the rudder was improved by improving the rudder and elevator. The propeller was a 4 piece constant speed type.
The first machine was completed in June 1943, and the practical examination was completed in December. However, Ki-84, which is the next fighter, has already been completed and showed high performance, so Ki-44-III was not adopted.
Type-III has two subtypes: Kou and Otu, Kou has 4 20㎜ cannons, Otu has 2 20㎜ cannons and 2 37㎜ Ho-203 cannons. Type-III production is very small.


 

 

Book name 『日本航空機大図鑑 : 1910年-1945年 中巻 』

 

New Ha-145Air-cooled 18-cylinder 2000 horsepower (lift) 1880 horsepower / altitude 1800m, 1450 horsepower / altitude 6400m
Main wing area increased by 4㎡, 19.00㎡
Changed the shape of the rudder. It is said that a small number of prototypes were produced in a form that can be seen as the Ki-84 prototype.

 

 

 

The first prototype of Ki-84 was completed in March 1943. Only the first prototype had a main wing of 19㎡.

All aircraft after the prototype No. 2 were equipped with 21㎡ main wings.

Ki-44-III was completed in June 1943, three months later than that.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, CherryBlossom said:

This is bloody excellent stuff, I did not even come close to getting the information you have. The perks of having access to Japanese records!

 

You should redirect this to secret projects forum as I am sure they would find this very useful as well.  

Mr. Tarepai has even more interesting material.

I looked for material about this aircraft with him, but his material was very helpful in my research.

 

Edited by Lineins
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This is quite a well-written suggestion with a lot of interesting material.

 

Quote

Ki-44-III.jpg

Why do you think this is the photo of Ki-44III? The below text states it is a Ki-84 "Hayate" taking off from south Kyushu.

 

A major problem of Ki-44III is that there are no existed photo or profiles. It will be impossible for Gaijin to make 3D model without knowing its appearance. 

 

 

Quote

By the way, you may be wondering that the maximum speed of ki-44-III is 665km / h, which is faster than 624km / h of ki-84.
However, ki-84's data of 624km / h is very early data with Ha-45-11, and after few weeks with the same engine is recording 630km / h. 
The mass-produced ki-84otu equipped with Ha-45-21 has recorded 660km / h, and it has recorded 680km / h in the flight test conducted in Mitaka at the end of the war.

@Lineins

Could you please talk more about the source and details of Ki-84 680 kph flight test in Mitaka?  I've never heard that before, and the speed record seems to on par with the estimation of TAIC. 

 

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13 hours ago, s9723 said:

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/8816046

RD9G3aA.jpg

 

The document shows that 2 Ki-44III were completed.

Problem is the Ki-44-III Ko is different from the Ki-44-III from my undestanding, so does this mean there is 0 Ki-44-III Ko's? When is the documentation from?

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On 24/08/2019 at 04:19, s9723 said:

 

Why do you think this is the photo of Ki-44III? The below text states it is a Ki-84 "Hayate" taking off from south Kyushu.

 

i thought it was a photo of the III because of the actual "3" under the image :P ill fix that right quick

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Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the Ki-44-III Kou is coming to War Thunder in the Chinese tree. Apparently they ended up capturing the prototypes after WWII? In any case, while it's disappointing it's not coming to the Japanese tree, it being already modeled does mean it will probably (hopefully) be added to Japan soon.

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6 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the Ki-44-III Kou is coming to War Thunder in the Chinese tree. Apparently they ended up capturing the prototypes after WWII? In any case, while it's disappointing it's not coming to the Japanese tree, it being already modeled does mean it will probably (hopefully) be added to Japan soon.

 

I wouldn't get your hopes up too soon.  The M26A1 Pershing and M36B1 Jackson were added to the Italian tank tree when it launched and the U.S. tank tree still hasn't gotten them yet, even though they're American tanks and it would be a simple matter to copy-paste them over.

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9 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, the Ki-44-III Kou is coming to War Thunder in the Chinese tree. 

 

You mistake Ki-43-III ko for Ki-44-III.

 

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12 hours ago, cricket27 said:

D-does that second Ki-44-IIc-Kai have four 40mm cannons as an armament?

As far as i remember, it was only a single model. The great CherryBlossom might correct me. It would be neat to see though, probably overtiered but something that can shred anything in its sight.

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1 hour ago, TM_06 said:

As far as i remember, it was only a single model. The great CherryBlossom might correct me. It would be neat to see though, probably overtiered but something that can shred anything in its sight.

I am always impressed by the measures that Japan was willing to take to turn back the tides.

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On 24/08/2019 at 04:19, s9723 said:

A major problem of Ki-44III is that there are no existed photo or profiles. It will be impossible for Gaijin to make 3D model without knowing its appearance. 

It's not entirely out of the realm of possibilities for them to make an accurate 3D model as we have a good idea of the dimensions of the aircraft, and the only major stopgap would be the appearance of the nose, as it could either look similar to the base Ki-44, have a similar design to the KI-84, or have a similar design to the N1K. The design being similar to the N1K is the most likely since both the Ki-44 and the N1K are made by Nakajima, but i'm leaning towards a Ki-84-like nose because both of them are IJAAF fighters with the same engine.

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After a couple months of research, everything that is listed here is all that's known about the aircraft. There is still no legitimate image of the thing, but we have enough data for gaijin to make a realistic model of it. If anyone has found anything on the aircraft that is not listed here, please share!

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