kleinerPanzer

T-35 Model 1938: Upgrading a Disaster

T-35 (1938)  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the T-35 Model 1938 be implemented?

    • Yes, in the tech tree
      27
    • Yes, as a premium (please explain)
      7
    • Yes, as a gift/rare (please explain)
      8
    • No (please explain)
      1


The T-35 Model 1938 was a futile attempt at upgrading and prolonging the lifespan of the T-35 heavy tank. Despite the many, many flaws the tank had, the only major design change that came with this was the addition of conical turrets to increase the armor protection.

 

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OVERVIEW

This tank is much the same as the T-35 currently in-game (as a premium): the same weaponry, the same mobility, and more or less the same armor. It would not warrant an increased battle rating, especially considering how unarmored and cumbersome the T-35 already is.

 

Images

Spoiler

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The T-35 Model 1938 on parade. The conical turrets and new hatches on the main turret can be seen. Note that there is no rear-facing machine gun, despite the fact that it had become common practice for the Soviets at the time.

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One, if not the only T-35 Model 1938 equipped with the horseshoe radio. Standard T-35 Model 1935s can be seen in the background.

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A side profile. 

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Two T-35 Model 1938s. 

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A similar view to the previous image.

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An abandoned T-35 Model 1938 being inspected by German troops.

T-35_soviet_heavy_tank_28.jpg

A Model 1938 abandoned by the roadside.

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The same tank, viewed from the front. The roof hatches were adjusted between the two photographs.

 

HISTORY

The T-35, after it was first produced on a large scale* in 1935, already suffered from many, many issues. The suspension and transmission were horribly overstressed, the powerful M-17 engine was just not enough, the tank was too large and heavy, and even still, the armor protection was vastly insufficient, especially for a heavy tank. Additionally, the crew layout was less than ideal, as multi-turreted tanks were already being phased out as the 1930's closed. Visibility out of the tank suffered from the poor arrangement of optics, while communications were severely hindered by the lack of good radios. Even the firepower of the main turret, the 76,2 mm KT-28, was beginning to be considered underpowered, as plans to refit the T-35's little brother, the T-28, with the more powerful L-10 gun were already underway. Long story short, the T-35 was not fit for combat. In fact, while the rest of the Red Army's tanks went off to fight against Finland in the Winter War, the T-35s were kept behind for parade purposes.

 

In 1938, new, conical turrets were designed and fitted to the T-35. They featured a slight improvement in armor, as well as the increased effectiveness from the sloping. However, that was more or less all there was, with a  revision to the shape of the side skirts and new idler wheels being the only other changes. None of the issues with the suspension or drivetrain were fixed, nor were the problems with being overweight, underpowered, or generally unreliable. Only six of these new tanks were produced. It is unclear whether the Model 1938 was ever fitted with the P-40 mount, as there doesn't appear to be photographic evidence of it despite the possibility. 

 

The new main turret also featured the new twin-hatches which could hold the P-40 anti-aircraft mount, as already found on the T-28 (Models 1936 and 1938) and the BT-7 Model 1937.

 

No T-35 Model 1938 tanks exist, as all six were destroyed or abandoned in 1941. There are surviving Model 1935 T-35s, as well as reproductions.

 

* In all only 61 were produced. This hardly can be considered large-scale, but prior to 1935, the rate of production was noticeably slower.

 

STATISTICS

Crew

11 (Commander, Driver, Radio-Operator, Primary Loader, Primary Gunner, 2 Secondary Loaders, 2 Secondary Gunners, 2 Machine Gunners)

Length

9.72 m

Width

3.2 m 

Height

3.43 m

Ground Clearance

53 cm

Weight

50 t

Ground Pressure

0.70 kg/cm2

Engine

M-17T V12 Petrol

500 hp at 1445 rpm

Power-to-Weight Ratio

10 hp/t

Transmission

4 forward, 1 reverse

Speed

30 km/h (road), 19 km/h (cross-country)

Fuel

920 L

Range

150 km (road),  70 km (cross-country)

Wall-Climbing

1.2 m

Trench-Crossing

4.00 m

Max Gradient

57%

Max Fording Depth

1.2 m

Armor

Hull:

 30 mm front

 20 mm sides

 20 mm rear

 15 mm roof

 16 mm floor

Primary Turret:

 30 mm front

 30 mm sides

 30 mm rear

 15 mm roof

Secondary Turrets:

 30 mm front

 30 mm sides

 30 mm rear

 10 mm roof

Additional Turrets:

 30 mm front

 30 mm sides

 30 mm rear

 10 mm roof

Smoke

None

Armament

1x KT-28

2x 20-K

5x DT (or 6x DT)

Primary

76,2 mm KT-28 (96 Rounds)

 Elevation: Manual, -5 to +25°

 Traverse: Powered, 360°, 10.5°/s

Secondary

45 mm 20-K x2 (220 Rounds)

 Elevation: Manual, -8 to +25°

 Traverse: Manual, 360°, 9.5°/s

Additional

7,62 mm DT x5 (10080 Rounds) or x6

Primary Coaxial:

 Elevation: Manual, -20 to +30°

 Traverse: As Primary Armament, 10° left and right without turning turret

Secondary Coaxial:

 Elevation: As Secondary Armament

 Traverse: As Secondary Armament

Hull Turrets:

 Elevation: Manual, -30 to +30°

 Traverse: Manual, 10° left and 20° right without turning turret

AA: (Optional)

 Elevation: Manual

 Traverse: Manual


 

 

SOURCES

1 - Russian Tanks of World War II - Stalin's Armoured Might by Tim Bean and William Fowler

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-35

3 - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-35

4 - http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_T-35.php

Edited by kleinerPanzer
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3
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Open for discussion. :salute:

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3 hours ago, Milocat said:

Would it be a regular vehicle or premium?

The problem is the fact that the other T-35 exists already and how unique this is.

 

The T-35 already is quite a beast in-game, albeit a relatively immobile one. Adding it to the tech tree (i.e. before the T-28 and after the T-26-4) would be problematic, as it would get immediately spammed to oblivion like the Char B1 bis and ter. However, making it a premium wouldn't really prevent that either.

 

Additionally, having two such similar premiums would make the worse of the two, especially if they had the same BR, unpopular. There would be no reason to purchase the T-35 Model 1935 instead of the Model 1938, if looking for performance and such. Unless they did something like with the Boomerangs or American Rocket Tanks where one must be purchased to progress to the next. If implemented as a premium, I think that'd be the best way, even though it'd be unreasonable considering how low-tier the T-35 is.

 

I really wouldn't want to see it as a gift/rare vehicle either; these Soviet pre-war tanks are a joy to play.

 

As for my opinion, I'd prefer to see it in the main tech tree, after the T-26-4. If some of the other T-28's with the KT-28 I suggested also get added, I wouldn't want to see it interrupt the T-28s.

 

 

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Yess, let me feed on the salt of those who can't handle my precious land battleship 

 

Probably an event prize, but I want it anyway.

 

+1

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On 23/07/2019 at 19:24, HugoTroop said:

Additionally, having two such similar premiums would make the worse of the two, especially if they had the same BR, unpopular. There would be no reason to purchase the T-35 Model 1935 instead of the Model 1938, if looking for performance and such. Unless they did something like with the Boomerangs or American Rocket Tanks where one must be purchased to progress to the next. If implemented as a premium, I think that'd be the best way, even though it'd be unreasonable considering how low-tier the T-35 is.

 

Well, the 1935 would have it’s own advantage, it would assumably be a lower BR.  At 1.3, it is in a lineup with tanks like the BT-7, and would be practically guaranteed to fight 1.0s, so it would be more appealing for it’s tier possibly.  While the 1938 would be slightly higher assumably — 1.7 I think there are no 1.7 Soviet tanks as far as I am aware, 2.0 it would face 3.0s as well, and still doesn’t have the lineup, while 2.3 has the T-28, but still not very many tanks, and would now face the Pz IV F2 and friends.  So until they add the BT-7M or so, it would be rather alone, and have a higher chance of fighting tougher opponents.

 

So I think any of the three would work:

 

> Premium, slightly higher, perhaps just slightly more expensive.

 

> Premium, have the 1935 as a prerequisite, though it shouldn’t be as expensive though if that is the case: you already bought the 1935, you shouldn’t have to spend thousands more to get yet another Rank I tank that frankly, you’re probably just using for fun tbh.

 

> Regular tree, perhaps either have thre T-26 line, then the last produced T-26 have the T-26-4 in a folder (because tbh, it’s a prototype, it should be in a folder), and then the 1938 after it?  That, or behind all the T-28s perhaps, after the T-28 (1940) in a folder?

Or it might not even need to be in a folder, it could be used to transition to the KV-1:  have the best or 2nd best (if the 1940 is in a folder) at 2.7 or 3.0, wherever it fits, have the T-35 (1938) between the T-28 and the KV-1, and it could be a lower Br — just because it’s after a higher tank doesn’t mean it has to go in order, there are rare exceptions of vehicles ‘downgrading’ in the tech tree, going from one Br to another BR slightly lower, before going back up.

Just speculating around.

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I'd say make the current T-35 we have ingame a hidden vehicle, and add this version in in it's place. The T-35 we have right now is I think a Model 1936.

This improved T-35 would be a good replacement because of it's better turret armour and overall improvements.

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On 30/04/2020 at 04:28, super_cacti said:

I'd say make the current T-35 we have ingame a hidden vehicle, and add this version in in it's place. The T-35 we have right now is I think a Model 1936.

This improved T-35 would be a good replacement because of it's better turret armour and overall improvements.

I don't like the idea of permanently hidden vehicles on principle, why not just tab it or something? Or make it an event vehicle maybe?

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10 hours ago, PrussianOwl said:

I don't like the idea of permanently hidden vehicles on principle, why not just tab it or something? Or make it an event vehicle maybe?


Could be like the Calliope and M26 T99. They have a prerequisite between them.

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I'd like to see this in the main tree, perhaps at 1.7. While this is barely any tougher than the 1935(?) version already in the game, the T-35 barely bounces any shots as it is; its toughness comes from the ludicrously large crew it carries. Being 1.7, it would fight 2.7s and not just 2.3s, but its 45mm gun should still be able to pierce tanks at its maximum uptier like the M3 Lee, Lago I and Pz.III J1, which all have 50mm or less armour. If it needed a buff, and if it was historically plausible, it could get the same 45mm APCR as T-50 to help it with these tougher targets (I haven't been able to find when the APCR for the 20-K was introduced). I wouldn't expect it to play all that much differently at a slightly higher BR, and it would help fill out Soviet Tier I, which currently has huge gaps between 1.0/1.3 and 2.0/2.3. This would fit well at 1.3 or 1.7 in the T-26 / T-28 line, possibly followed by one of the early model T-28s with the same KT-28 gun as T-35 instead of the better L-10. There would be the issue of lineup, since there are no 1.7 Soviet tanks, but there are options. For the BT line, there is the faster BT-7M and the tougher BT-7E (name unofficial, but all other up-armoured models got the -E suffix); for the T-60 / T-70 line there are prototypes with the 37mm ZiS-19 gun and the 40mm 20-K to bridge the gap between 1.0 and 2.0; for the TD line there's the SU-5-2 (the 122mm howitzer SU-5, which was the only one mass-produced; SU-5-1 and SU-5-3 were only prototypes); and the AA line could get either the triple-DShK GAZ-AA or the T-90 SPAAG (a T-70 with twin DShKs in an enclosed turret). This would be a great addition to the tree and one that would fit right in with a number of fairly easy additions that would add a lot more variety to Soviet Tier I.

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