Stona

Update 24.06.2019 (1.89.1.73)

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After multiple tests, we improved the scoring of critical hits, vehicle eliminations, and kill assists to aircraft/helicopters:

Critical damage

  • The damage is now considered critical only when it directly affects flight characteristics, not when merely dealing damage to certain portions of an aircraft. This makes scoring damaging effects more adequate, since similar impairments work differently for different aircraft: some become uncontrollable, while others are still able to fly.
  • One target may receive several critical hits from different players. Now every shooter is able to score his/her own critical hits each time.
  • Critical damage still has its effect period, this period is now 90 seconds. During this period, each similar hit won’t count as an additional critical. When this period expires, you are able to re-inflict critical damage to the same target.
  • Critical damage may also have delayed effect. For example, a disabled radiator could cause an engine to overheat and fail or may be followed by a fire destroying multiple parts of an aircraft. In this case, the scoring of  critical damage occurs immediately after these damaging effects occur on the target aircraft. Such critical damage has no effect period and is considered active at all times.
  • You’ll get an on-screen notification each time critical or serious damage is dealt.
  • Critical damage notifications appear only when critical damage is dealt.

Serious damage

  • Serious damage is damage to certain parts and modules of an aircraft that does not directly affect its flight characteristics and controls, but is close to inflicting Critical damage.
  • Serious damage is less than Critical, but may always lead up to Critical.
  • Serious damage has an effect period and is active for 15 seconds in able to allow a player to score a kill, or 30/60/80 seconds (AB/RB/SB) to score a kill assist.
  • Unlike Critical damage, Serious damage is removed from the target when the timer expires, although it can be ‘refreshed’ on a target by scoring more hits.

Simple damage

  • Simple damage is any damage that is not Critical or Serious.
  • Active for 15 seconds, then it is removed from the target.

Target destruction

  • Target destruction is scored immediately when lethal damage is done to any target (i.e. pilot knock out, destruction of a main support inside the wing, tail cut, or a fuel explosion inside the aircraft)
  • If a target crashes, the following scoring scenarios are implemented;
    • When a targets damage affect period refreshes (after 90 seconds) Critical damage and target destruction score goes to the pilot who inflicted the heaviest supplemental damage, not the last one;
    • Without new Critical damage occurring, the score goes to the last pilot which inflicted Serious or Simple damage in the last 15 seconds before the crash (as it was previously in the game);
    • Without any additional Critical, Serious or Simple damage, but Critical Damage was inflicted previously. The score goes to the one who inflicted the heaviest Critical damage before the damage effect timer expired.
  • Target destruction does not score if a target aircraft successfully lands on an airfield and is able to repair.

Kill assist

  • Kill assist scores occur when any pilot inflicts new Critical (less than 90 seconds) or Serious (30/60/80 for AB/RB/SB) damage before the targets destruction.
  • Simple damage will not score a Kill Assist.
 
Examples 
 
Spoiler

 

Example 1

You and your teammate are shooting together at an enemy aircraft, dealing several Critical hits. Your target crashes within 90 seconds. The “frag” score goes to the one who inflicted the heavier Critical damage. The same situation will occur if the timer expires, and none of the other players managed to deal any decent damage to the target.

Example 2 (same rule as before)

You have given critical damage to the enemy aircraft after which it was able to continue the battle and after 90 seconds, got hits from an ally and then immediately crashed. In this case destruction will be counted for your team mate because of your Critical Damage has lost priority.

Example 3

You have given critical damage to an enemy aircraft and it crashes after 90 seconds. In this case you will still get the kill counted for you if the hits of other players does not lead to the destruction of the aircraft.

 

 


The current provided changelog reflects the major changes within the game as part of this Update. Some updates, additions and fixes may not be listed in the provided notes. War Thunder is constantly improving and specific fixes may be implemented without the client being updated.

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Excellent changes.  The whole kill attribution system has been giving a lot of players grief for quite some time now, and it's good to see Gaijin reworking the system to be more fair to the players that did the most work to get the kill.  Hopefully this also means that critical damage is now truly "critical," and an aircraft won't be able to just shake off a direct tank shot as though it was nothing.

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OK. Looks complicated and we will have to see how it works in practice. I'm sure many folk will have complaints and some suggested improvements. Very pleased that Gaijin have take the time to review, change and (importantly) describe the nature of the changes. We are often left in the dark when small changes happen. Fabulous to get such good communication.

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Thank you! I hope this will work as you said and dont lead to weird problems. The old kill system was broken and obsolete (i must say it was not very easy to understand in some situations) so its always nice to see an "upgrade". 

Edited by onebullet95SPAIN
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I heavily disagree on minor damage not counting for an assist or kill. If I graze someone with a bullet and he proceeds to maneuver himself into ground or overload his wings and breaks them I should be credited kill. 15 seconds is not going to cut it. Alternatively if I do simple damage to the plane and he proceeds to alter his flight to get caught by ally I should also be credited an assist regardless of the damage I dealt.

 

There is more to air combat than just putting bullets in each other's plane.

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Reading the first part looked like it was getting worse for players, but reading the rest it doesn't sound too bad.

 

Overall though I would say it will take some time of experiencing these changes before being able to pass judgement on this.

 

Best regards,

 

Phil

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This is definitely a step in the right direction! Just a couple of things:

 

56 minutes ago, Stona said:
  • The damage is now considered critical only when it directly affects flight characteristics, not when merely dealing damage to certain portions of an aircraft. This makes scoring damaging effects more adequate, since similar impairments work differently for different aircraft: some become uncontrollable, while others are still able to fly.

 

Could you guys clarify this point? How much damage must be inflicted to be critical? 

 

For example, a light/medium-Yellow wing on a Jet plane severely affects its combat capabilities and might lead to a crash on landing and is effectively a Critical or at least a Serious damage. However on a Porp plane the effect is less prominent and considering it Simple or at best Serious damage wouldn't be a mistake.

 

1 hour ago, Stona said:

Example 2 (same rule as before)

You have given critical damage to the enemy aircraft after which it was able to continue the battle and after 90 seconds, got hits from an ally and then immediately crashed. In this case destruction will be counted for your team mate because of your Critical Damage has lost priority.

 

I don't agree with this decision. Once a plane receive a critical hit, in most cases becomes combat ineffective and little to no effort is required to finish him off. Kill should go to the first critical hit regardless. That's just my opinion. 

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Looks pretty good to me.

 

Just a little bit confused by this though -

  • Critical damage still has its effect period, this period is now 90 seconds. During this period, each similar hit won’t count as an additional critical. When this period expires, you are able to re-inflict critical damage to the same target.

The '90 second effect period' thing seems a bit vague. What happens if you critical someone - say, you shoot their wingtip off, or shoot their tail off, etc - but they still manage to fly on, and crash in (for instance) 3 or 4 minutes time? Do you not receive a kill because it has been more than 90 seconds?

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I don't agree with the time limit. I've been beaten over this far too many times.

I also done agree with some of the "criticals", like losing flaps on the wing, as this doesn't actually do much to stop anyone.

 

This does look nice and all but 90 seconds is so short...

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52 minutes ago, gaiacheck said:

I heavily disagree on minor damage not counting for an assist or kill. If I graze someone with a bullet and he proceeds to maneuver himself into ground or overload his wings and breaks them I should be credited kill. 15 seconds is not going to cut it. Alternatively if I do simple damage to the plane and he proceeds to alter his flight to get caught by ally I should also be credited an assist regardless of the damage I dealt.

 

There is more to air combat than just putting bullets in each other's plane.

this resumes how assit works, not just because you put bullet and imediatly crashes in is wwhaty ou call assist

 

assits shoul be attributes to eve nthe minor damages, becaus even the slightest damages contributes to one diying due to his inability to controle/move.....short to the super long term of the battles

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In general, I agree with the changes. However, I disagree with critical damage timing out. It's happened more than once that after I critted an aircraft in ground RB, he tried limping back to base but the damage I inflicted made him fail the landing and lose his aircraft. Sometimes that happened more than 90s after I damaged him, especially when I hit the control surfaces in a way that he could not maneuver well. As that enemies crash is a direct result of my damage I should be credited for the kill.

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1 hour ago, Atsuk0 said:

Looks pretty good to me.

 

Just a little bit confused by this though -

  • Critical damage still has its effect period, this period is now 90 seconds. During this period, each similar hit won’t count as an additional critical. When this period expires, you are able to re-inflict critical damage to the same target.

The '90 second effect period' thing seems a bit vague. What happens if you critical someone - say, you shoot their wingtip off, or shoot their tail off, etc - but they still manage to fly on, and crash in (for instance) 3 or 4 minutes time? Do you not receive a kill because it has been more than 90 seconds?

 

That's what I am asking myself as well. The example would say the enemy has to crash within 90 seconds, but the explanation does not. Can someone clarify this?

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Thanks for reworking the kill system which was utterly broken. I'll still wait to see how it really behaves ingame.

 

However once again you don't take putting fire to an enemy plane  into serious consideration. A burning plane should be considered as a "death pending" while fire is still lit... so if player A puts enemy on fire, player B shouldn't get the kill if it destroy the target while fire is still on, B should get an assist instead and A take the kill.

Of course, if fire puts out before player B kill the enemy, then player B should have the kill and player A just an assist.

 

Please take this into consideration, it would avoid some serious rage between players.

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FINALLY, i have reported issues with the Kills/Assists on helicopters and other aircrafts like 6 months ago.

I need just a clarification.

Will now a Crew kill on a Plane/Helicopter be considered as Critical/Serious hit? Till today, if you killed the Gunner of a Apache helicopter, and someone else kills the vehicle, you will not get an assist.

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2 hours ago, gaiacheck said:

I heavily disagree on minor damage not counting for an assist or kill. If I graze someone with a bullet and he proceeds to maneuver himself into ground or overload his wings and breaks them I should be credited kill. 15 seconds is not going to cut it. Alternatively if I do simple damage to the plane and he proceeds to alter his flight to get caught by ally I should also be credited an assist regardless of the damage I dealt.

 

There is more to air combat than just putting bullets in each other's plane.

 

I disagree with your thought, minor damage shouldn't award kills at all. If the pilot is still fully in control of the aircraft and maneuvers it to the point that either the wings break off or they hit terrain or a tree after a few minor hits, then you aren't the reason that aircraft isn't in the fight anymore, so you shouldn't get a kill for it. An assist maybe, but definitely not a kill.

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3 hours ago, Stona said:

cover_facebook_answers_developers_07a5fc

After multiple tests, we improved the scoring of critical hits, vehicle eliminations, and kill assists to aircraft/helicopters:

Critical damage

  • The damage is now considered critical only when it directly affects flight characteristics, not when merely dealing damage to certain portions of an aircraft. This makes scoring damaging effects more adequate, since similar impairments work differently for different aircraft: some become uncontrollable, while others are still able to fly.
  • One target may receive several critical hits from different players. Now every shooter is able to score his/her own critical hits each time.
  • Critical damage still has its effect period, this period is now 90 seconds. During this period, each similar hit won’t count as an additional critical. When this period expires, you are able to re-inflict critical damage to the same target.
  • Critical damage may also have delayed effect. For example, a disabled radiator could cause an engine to overheat and fail or may be followed by a fire destroying multiple parts of an aircraft. In this case, the scoring of  critical damage occurs immediately after these damaging effects occur on the target aircraft. Such critical damage has no effect period and is considered active at all times.
  • You’ll get an on-screen notification each time critical or serious damage is dealt.
  • Critical damage notifications appear only when critical damage is dealt.

Serious damage

  • Serious damage is damage to certain parts and modules of an aircraft that does not directly affect its flight characteristics and controls, but is close to inflicting Critical damage.
  • Serious damage is less than Critical, but may always lead up to Critical.
  • Serious damage has an effect period and is active for 15 seconds in able to allow a player to score a kill, or 30/60/80 seconds (AB/RB/SB) to score a kill assist.
  • Unlike Critical damage, Serious damage is removed from the target when the timer expires, although it can be ‘refreshed’ on a target by scoring more hits.

Simple damage

  • Simple damage is any damage that is not Critical or Serious.
  • Active for 15 seconds, then it is removed from the target.

Target destruction

  • Target destruction is scored immediately when lethal damage is done to any target (i.e. pilot knock out, destruction of a main support inside the wing, tail cut, or a fuel explosion inside the aircraft)
  • If a target crashes, the following scoring scenarios are implemented;
    • When a targets damage affect period refreshes (after 90 seconds) Critical damage and target destruction score goes to the pilot who inflicted the heaviest supplemental damage, not the last one;
    • Without new Critical damage occurring, the score goes to the last pilot which inflicted Serious or Simple damage in the last 15 seconds before the crash (as it was previously in the game);
    • Without any additional Critical, Serious or Simple damage, but Critical Damage was inflicted previously. The score goes to the one who inflicted the heaviest Critical damage before the damage effect timer expired.
  • Target destruction does not score if a target aircraft successfully lands on an airfield and is able to repair.

Kill assist

  • Kill assist scores occur when any pilot inflicts new Critical (less than 90 seconds) or Serious (30/60/80 for AB/RB/SB) damage before the targets destruction.
  • Simple damage will not score a Kill Assist.
 
Examples 
 
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Example 1

You and your teammate are shooting together at an enemy aircraft, dealing several Critical hits. Your target crashes within 90 seconds. The “frag” score goes to the one who inflicted the heavier Critical damage. The same situation will occur if the timer expires, and none of the other players managed to deal any decent damage to the target.

Example 2 (same rule as before)

You have given critical damage to the enemy aircraft after which it was able to continue the battle and after 90 seconds, got hits from an ally and then immediately crashed. In this case destruction will be counted for your team mate because of your Critical Damage has lost priority.

Example 3

You have given critical damage to an enemy aircraft and it crashes after 90 seconds. In this case you will still get the kill counted for you if the hits of other players does not lead to the destruction of the aircraft.

 

 


The current provided changelog reflects the major changes within the game as part of this Update. Some updates, additions and fixes may not be listed in the provided notes. War Thunder is constantly improving and specific fixes may be implemented without the client being updated.

 

Can we also have some examples of the different damage types?

Ie:

Lethal damage =  pilot knock out, destruction of a main support inside the wing, tail cut, or a fuel explosion inside the aircraft :good:

Critical damage = a disabled radiator could cause an engine to overheat and fail or may be followed by a fire destroying multiple parts of an aircraft.:good:

Serious damage = Serious damage is less than Critical, but may always lead up to Critical.... :dntknw:So a fire that leads to Critical damage?:dntknw:

Simple damage = Simple damage is any damage that is not Critical or Serious. :dntknw:Thinking some thing like shots passing through the fuselage of a wellington with out hitting any crew or aircraft components other than the skin maybe? So I'm asking for more precise examples of serious and simple damage. As it is now its kind of vague. :salute:

 

Also is this "The damage is now considered critical only when it directly affects flight characteristics, not when merely dealing damage to certain portions of an aircraft. This makes scoring damaging effects more adequate, since similar impairments work differently for different aircraft: some become uncontrollable, while others are still able to fly." indicating it will be vehicle specific now?

 

Ie: 1 pilot knock out to a spitfire will be lethal damage but 1 pilot knock out to a wellington will be less than lethal damage because it has more than one pilot?

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There shouldn't be an expiry timer for serious and even "light" damage. Many a time, I have been only lightly clipped on one wing, but this damage was enough to throw my plane off balance later in the dogfight? Should a player who, through superior manoeuvring, forces his opponent to the ground, really not be rewarded?
It's especially ridiculous for "serious damage", since damaging a wing enough to force a flat spin wouldn't necessarily require critical damage (depending on the aircraft), but the simple physics of the time it takes to fall now mean that doesn't get counted as a kill?

Also, why no mention of the effect of killing additional crew members (gunners, navigators, co-pilots) on awarded kills / assists? I should think that a pilot who kills off turrets on a bomber is well deserving of an assist : his work quite simply made the other's job easier 

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3 hours ago, Atsuk0 said:

Just a little bit confused by this though -

  • Critical damage still has its effect period, this period is now 90 seconds. During this period, each similar hit won’t count as an additional critical. When this period expires, you are able to re-inflict critical damage to the same target.

The '90 second effect period' thing seems a bit vague. What happens if you critical someone - say, you shoot their wingtip off, or shoot their tail off, etc - but they still manage to fly on, and crash in (for instance) 3 or 4 minutes time? Do you not receive a kill because it has been more than 90 seconds?

 

 

5 hours ago, Stona said:

 

    • Without any additional Critical, Serious or Simple damage, but Critical Damage was inflicted previously. The score goes to the one who inflicted the heaviest Critical damage before the damage effect timer expired.
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Example 3

You have given critical damage to an enemy aircraft and it crashes after 90 seconds. In this case you will still get the kill counted for you if the hits of other players does not lead to the destruction of the aircraft.

 

 

According to what is written in the changelog, you will receive the kill.

 

After testing, I can say I've confirmed that with this update, we now get proper kill credit for making someone crash after an oil leak! Yay! I've tested it in a custom battle with bots, my Spit Mk Ia got hit by a 30cal and the oil radiator quickly changed status to EMPTY, my engine soon blacked out and when I used up my gliding range (and intentionally didn't perform a completely soft landing), the bot gained a kill:good::DD:B10:

Edited by DestroyDaDa
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