Thurny

The Vespa 150 TAP - The Scoot gives the boot

Vespa 150 TAP  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like this vehicle to be implemented into the game?

    • Yes.
      50
    • No. (please explain in the comments)
      16
    • I don't know/undecided
      4
  2. 2. How would you like to see this vehicle being introduced?

    • As reward for an event.
      33
    • As part of the tech tree.
      17
    • As a premium/bundle vehicle.
      9
    • Not at all.
      18
  3. 3. What battle rating should it have?

    • 4.3
      25
    • 4.7
      10
    • 5.0
      4
    • 5.3
      8
    • Some other br (please specify)
      5
    • None. I don't want it.
      18



Vesp1.thumb.jpg.9cb03d270b9222411866a61e

Introduction
During the mid and late-1950s, a terrifying machine was making an appearance everywhere enemies of the French Republic dared to show their faces. Dropped into hostile lands via parachute, a devastating machine made its' way toward the enemy, being controlled by the elite of the French Army. The Vespa 150 TAP.

This anti-tank scooter was a novel concept at its' time and still probably is for most people as it is the only machine ''commonly'' known as an ''anti-tank scooter''. And that really is what it was. The Vespa 150 TAP used a 75mm recoilless rifle, which was located right under the driver's seat. Normally, of course, it was not supposed to fire while on the move, although that was a possibility too. In concept, this special Vespa was supposed to merely carry the gun with itself, as well as some ammunition, as the gun was mounted onto a tripod and the Vespa would not be needed anymore. But that just wouldn't be as much fun, would it?

I think this vehicle would be great for War Thunder and I hope I can convince you to share this sentiment.
For one, the Vespa 150 TAP would be a fun vehicle to play. The speed and nature of the gun would make getting kills challenging and also satisfying. Flanking and good positioning would be rewarded and a single shot with a low caliber machine gun could be enough to kill the bugger in most cases, thus making it very far from overpowered, yet valuable in the right hands. Overall, the Vespa could fill the role of a quick and deadly tank destroyer, while at the same time being very fragile, thus, making it a very desirable vehicle and surely something of a meme to behold.


Representation in the game and playstyle

As mentioned earlier, it would play like a very light and fast tank destroyer with virtually no armor and a decent gun (depending on the battle rating). Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Vespa itself could not take a lot of ammo with itself. Looking at pictures a maximum of about 6-8 rounds comes in mind. Also, reloading times would be rather long due to the fact, that in reality, the rounds needed to be taken out of their protective cases and then loaded into the back of the scooter, making the process cumbersome and creating a long reload time for an 75 mm gun, also shooting it on the move should be avoided, just like in real life, as you don't have many shells in the first place and firing on the move would be very inaccurate. Also, it would only consist of two crewmen: a loader and a gunner/driver/commander. To make my point clear: If you were to shoot, you better hit. Once you're spotted, your chance of survival is basically non-existent. Keeping all that as well as the time frame it was produced it makes me think of a battle rating around 4.3-5.3, as it would really struggle to pen any frontal armor even at a lot of the tanks at this battle rating.


Why is this not a suggestion for the Italian tech tree? After all, the Vespa is an Italian vehicle.
This is actually fairly simple to answer. This vehicle was simply never used by the Italian Army and manufactured in France.

Usage in real life
In real life, this vehicle was rarely if ever used against enemy tanks. The French Paratroopers mostly used it to destroy makeshift shelters and bunkers built by the Vietnamese or Algerians. In this role, it proved to be very good, since the scooter design made it fairly suited for the terrain, easy to conceal and transport. It was reportedly also cheap to produce, making it overall a fairly effective weapon for its' time. Although I could not find the date of its retirement, I am fairly certain it was retired by the mid-'70s or early '80s at last.

Vesp.jpg.c087a78dac846fa3a7c53fa74991fb2

Data
Crew: 1-2
Mass 145 kg

Maximum Speed: around 60 kph
Engine: 150cc two-stroke engine

Armament:  75 mm M20 recoilless rifle
Shell types: HEAT, HE, Smoke
Muzzle Velocity: 300 m/s
Reloading time: 7-10 seconds
Gun traverse: very limited (probably about 315°-355° at max, there's no sources on this)

Shell storage: 6-8 shells

Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP (English)
https://wiki.germanscooterforum.de/index.php/Vespa_150_ACMA_TAP (German)
https://newatlas.com/vespa-150-tap-cannon-scooter/30620/ (English)
https://www.motor1.com/news/75728/a-scooter-on-steroids-the-vespa-150-tap/ (English)

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Open for discussion. :salute:

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1 minute ago, onemax9000 said:

+1 now we need this

 Related image

and this

Image result for sled with recoilless rifle

Ah, someone remembered the early versions! Truly!

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No for me

Translated into English:

The Vespa 150 TAP ("Airborne Troops" TAP) or "Bazooka Vespa" is a Vespa scooter modified to carry a 75 mm M20 recoilless gun. It was used in the late 1950s by French airborne troops during the Algerian war. Built by the Motorcycle and Automobile Building Workshops (ACMA) in 1956 and 1959, an assembler licensed from Vespa in France, this relatively inexpensive scooter made it possible to quickly deploy by parachute dropping a team of two people (shooter and charger) with a vehicle. The gun was never designed to be fired from the scooter, which is only a means of transport. The barrel was thus mounted on a foldable tripod delivered with the scooter. About 600 of these scooters ("TAP 56" and "TAP 59" versions) were produced. The project dates back to the Indochina war.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

https://www.vespa.com/be_FR/histoire.html

Edited by Xenecrite
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6 minutes ago, Xenecrite said:

No for me

Translated into English:

The Vespa 150 TAP ("Airborne Troops" TAP) or "Bazooka Vespa" is a Vespa scooter modified to carry a 75 mm M20 recoilless gun. It was used in the late 1950s by French airborne troops during the Algerian war. Built by the Motorcycle and Automobile Building Workshops (ACMA) in 1956 and 1959, an assembler licensed from Vespa in France, this relatively inexpensive scooter made it possible to quickly deploy by parachute dropping a team of two people (shooter and charger) with a vehicle. The gun was never designed to be fired from the scooter, which is only a means of transport. The barrel was thus mounted on a foldable tripod delivered with the scooter. About 600 of these scooters ("TAP 56" and "TAP 59" versions) were produced. The project dates back to the Indochina war.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

https://www.vespa.com/be_FR/histoire.html

 

Yet, when it was capable of firing in the configuration it is seen above, why not use that potential?

It would make for an interesting vehicle in the game and playing it would be fun. War Thunder was always prioritizing fun over realism. Otherwise, you wouldn't even be able to drive down a hill at too high of speed without your transmission breaking or the driver being wounded.

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This is simply too hilarious not to be in the game.

Will it be good? Obviously not. Will it be fun? Sure as hell!

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28 minutes ago, Poussin_Pouipoui said:

IRL you cannot shoot directly on the scooter. Sorry but that’s a no for me now.  Funny vehicles are cool but too far from the reality this time.

And the Panther II and R2Y2 isn't?

Edited by TerikG2014

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11 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

And the Panther II and R2Y2 isn't?

 

It's not the same thing. The Vespa 150 TAP has existed, has been operational, and has been deployed in the field. It was never meant to shoot from the bike, and wasn't designed to. Hell, the machine was a broken piece of equipment anyway, reports and interviews from the paras who used it shows that the gun was too heavy for the Vespa, and the bike broke down so often that they ultimately dismounted the guns and installed them on fortifications. The bikes were used as courrier and liaison.

 

The only way in my opinion this could get in the game is as an April Fool's vehicles. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.

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3 hours ago, Arghail said:

 

It's not the same thing. The Vespa 150 TAP has existed, has been operational, and has been deployed in the field. It was never meant to shoot from the bike, and wasn't designed to. Hell, the machine was a broken piece of equipment anyway, reports and interviews from the paras who used it shows that the gun was too heavy for the Vespa, and the bike broke down so often that they ultimately dismounted the guns and installed them on fortifications. The bikes were used as courrier and liaison.

 

The only way in my opinion this could get in the game is as an April Fool's vehicles. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.

Do you have any source to back that up? Because a good few sources say it was capable of shooting on the move.

4 hours ago, Poussin_Pouipoui said:

IRL you cannot shoot directly on the scooter. Sorry but that’s a no for me now.  Funny vehicles are cool but too far from the reality this time.

What source do you have to put that into question? There is a few that say it was able to shoot on the move.

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54 minutes ago, Thurny said:

Do you have any source to back that up? Because a good few sources say it was capable of shooting on the move.

What source do you have to put that into question? There is a few that say it was able to shoot on the move.

 

The infos I have are from the mouths of vets I either met myself or heard during interviews that are not on in the internet. More specificaly, the manual and the mecanos who worked on it said the same thing. It was never designed to fire on the move, and it was dropped with another scooter equiped with a tripod and a load of ammunitions, and it broke down often.

 

Now, there are testimonies from paras who used it (whom I have never met myself) who indeed said they used it during tests and possibly on the battlefield, from the bike, but in a very peculiar way: given the very poor accuracy of the gun if mounted on the bike, they would stuff it with improvised "shrapnel boxes" to shoot it in a general direction, and they would explode, covering a wide area with deadly shrapnel. Some other testimonies also tells of warning shots fired from the bike. Naturally, neither those situations fit to a game like War Thunder.

 

Here are a couple shots of the parachuting of those machines :

 

http://vintagescooters.free.fr/vespa/acma/v_acma150tap-59.htm

 

bazooka-6.gif

v_acma-150TAP-photo1.jpg

v_acma-150TAP-photo4.jpg

v_acma-150TAP-photo5.jpg

Edited by Arghail
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11 minutes ago, kamikazi21358 said:

 

What are you doing?  This is FRENCH ground forces suggestion!

french_mega_land_battleship_by_anandafau

This should deal with the 2A5 at rank 7, right?

Make this an actual suggestion
please

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On 29/04/2019 at 13:55, kamikazi21358 said:

 

What are you doing?  This is FRENCH ground forces suggestion!

french_mega_land_battleship_by_anandafau

This should deal with the 2A5 at rank 7, right?

 

What in the name of Charles De Gaulle is this monstrosity?  :D

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