kentwong4a28

My Complete Italian Ground Force Tech Tree (Rank I-VII)

 

1429394313_italianGFtech.thumb.png.99a611727883695_nightvision.png.0104981ad9fe6

1.There is no relationship between the Rank and Battle Rating of the vehicles.

2. * = Romanian or Hungarian vehicles

272117624_ammoavailable.png.610fae0ccb93

 

ROMAR upgrade is available to both B1 Centauro. The B1 Centauro ROMAR is removed.

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Principles and assumptions I follow when I making tech trees.

 

1.

I assume that the performance and stats of all vehicles in the game are as historically accurate as they can be. Proper BR is given to vehicles after they are given the correct performance. This is a dream of course.

 

2.

High-quality tech trees should be able to show the development history of vehicles(tanks, aircraft, ships etc) of the respective countries and vehicles that the countries’ armed force used.

Furthermore, it should be competitive in all game modes and enjoyable to play with.

 

I add non-domestic build vehicles and important experimental vehicles even there is no “BR Gaps” in the tech trees.

 

3.

Minor countries, like Poland, Romania, and Hungary, produced and used many interesting and unique vehicles.

Vehicles of these countries should be added into the existing 8 fractions: USA, USSR, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, China. Here’s the detail.

 

France: Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Czech, and Slovakia

Italy: Hungarian and Romania.

Britain: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa.

 

Minor counties vehicles must be domestically produced. Imported vehicles are allowed, but they must be unique designs. In other words, imported reskinned vehicles are not allowed for these countries. Furthermore, the political background of all countries in one fraction should be the same.

 

Here are some examples to explain how it works.

 

Since France belong to the fraction of Allies of WW2 and NATO, there should not be any vehicles that are used only by Czechoslovak and Polish People’s Army.

 

Romanian imported P.11b fighter, which is an export model of P.11, from Poland. P.11b is very similar to Polish P.11s, so it is a reskinned plane. However, France and Romania belong to allies and axis fraction respectively, so P.11b is added into the Italian aviation tech tree instead of French aviation tech tree.

 

Hungarian imported He 112Bs from Germany. Hungarian He 112B is reskinned plane and Hungary belong to axis fraction, so Hungarian He 112B is added into the German aviation tech tree instead of Italian.

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Additional assumption for making Ground Force Tech Trees

 

1.

Certain researchable upgrades will increase a vehicle’s BR. 
 
There are 2 types of researchable upgrades which are Upgrades and Modernization.
 
Upgrade are small modifications that will not result in an increase of BR.
Modernization will increase the BR of the vehicle.
 
I use BMP-1 and M60A1 as examples to explain this Modernization system.
There is BMP-1P Modernization that can be researched in the vehicle modification of BMP-1. After BMP-1P Modernization is installed, 9M113 missile is available. Its BR increase.
There is AOS Modernization that can be researched in the vehicle modification of M60A1. After the AOS Modernization is installed, M735 APFSDS and gun stabiliser are available. Its BR increase .

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update 2019/5/5: Make a slight change to the tech tree

 

update 2019/9/6  :

C1 Ariete(P), C1 Ariete PSO.is added

Adds information about the night vision system of some cold war vehicles.

 

update 2019/9/16: Palmaria SPG is added. 

Edited by kentwong4a28
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4 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

After the RISE Passive Modernization is installed, M833 is available as upgrade ammo.

You know that the RISE is not just the era pack installed? The tank is different. If a tank is the same Gaijin already did a researchable add on like the BV version. But if the tank got other modifications like engine, cannon and other stuff... Well it's another tank

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6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

979107850_italianGFtech.thumb.png.4b1c63

Too many "paper" vehicles.  They aren't coming so concentrate on stuff that did exist, and make this a REAL discussion.  It needs to happen.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

 

Principles and assumptions I follow when I making tech trees are explained first before I present my tech tree.

 

I assume that the performance and stats of all vehicles in the game are as historically accurate as they can be. Proper BR is given to vehicles after they are given the correct performance. This is a dream of course. WT is neither balanced or historically accurate since 2013. Since fully flushed out tech trees is a dream, I think it is alright to include this assumption.

War Thunder plays realism only when it suits them, and ignores it when it doesn't.  The best example is load times for the M1 and IPM1.  A basically trained neophyte crewman MUST be able to load the main gun in 5 seconds.  This is well documented as well as a fact.  Gaijin does not give these load times because if they did soviet era tanks would be unplayable in the game paradigm.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

2.

High-quality tech trees should be able to show the development history of vehicles(tanks, aircraft, ships etc) of the respective countries and vehicles that the countries’ armed force used.

Furthermore, it should be competitive in all game modes and enjoyable to play with.

 

I think Gaijin does the best job with this that they can.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

 

There are numerous designs remained at the stage of prototypes and did not entering mass production, due to the one or several of the following reasons: existing mass-produced designs could already satisfy the needs; the war was going to end or had already ended; they were too expensive compared to other alternatives; the military or the government changed their mind at the last second and canceled the production plan due to all sorts of reasons; other less common reason like the designers died so his/her projects (even it is promising ) were canceled. I think these designs should be added to the game.

 

 

Gaijin has an unshakeable criteria here. They did not in the past. (Ho-Ri, Tiger II 10.5....etc.), but they do now.  The vehicle must have actually been built to prototype stage.  It would be important to highlight these as "maybes" if Gaijin goes back to the old way of doing business.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

I add non-domestic build vehicles and important experimental vehicles even there is no “BR Gaps” in the tech trees.

 

We all want as much diversity as possible.  Good move.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

3.

I will not add fictional designs and unrealistic designs. I add blueprint designs that have detail information (so no proposal or sketches) to fill gaps in tech trees if necessary. Fictional designs(yes that’s right, there are fictional vehicles in the game) and unneeded blueprint designs that present in the current in-game tech tree are removed in my tech tree.

 

This isn't going to be enough, but I appreciate your rigor.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

4.

Minor countries, like Poland, Romania, and Hungary, produced and used many interesting and unique vehicles.

Vehicles of these countries should be added into the existing 7 fractions: USA, USSR, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan. Here’s the detail.

 

France: Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Czech.

Italy: Hungarian and Romania.

Britain: Australia, Canada, and South Africa.

Minor counties vehicles must be domestically produced. Imported vehicles are allowed, but they must be unique designs. In other words, imported reskinned vehicles are not allowed for these countries. Furthermore, the political background of all countries in one fraction should be the same.

 

Here are some examples to explain how it works.

 

Since France belong to the fraction of Allies of WW2 and NATO, there should not be any vehicles that are used only by Czechoslovak and Polish People’s Army.

 

Romanian imported P.11b fighter, which is an export model of P.11, from Poland. P.11b is very similar to Polish P.11s, so it is a reskinned plane. However, France and Romania belong to allies and axis fraction respectively, so P.11b is added into the Italian aviation tech tree instead of French aviation tech tree.

 

Hungarian imported He 112Bs from Germany. Hungarian He 112B is reskinned plane and Hungary belong to axis fraction, so Hungarian He 112B is added into the German aviation tech tree instead of Italian.

 

Fascinating tank.  Don't 100% agree, but would accept it if it meant more cool vehicles.

 

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

Additional assumptions for making Ground Force Tech Trees

 

1.

I assume that the night vision system had been implemented in the game.

 

I accept that there is no fire control system in the game since it causes nearly unsolvable balance issue. Night vision is a must otherwise the difference between cold war vehicles and ww2 vehicles is too little.

 

Starting from around BR7.0 (BR of early cold war MBT), players will get into night battles frequently.

We all want it.  The problem is all the potato computers out there.  Gaijin wanting to keep the game accessible to them is fine by me.  More players is always better.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

2.

Implement Researchable Modernization Upgrades

Balance nightmare.  I'm fine with the current system.

6 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

During the cold war, many vehicles were upgrades. After they were upgraded, they were given new designations. In the game, these “Modernization” should be presented as researchable upgrades in the vehicle modification. They should not be presented as separate vehicles as it makes the game too grindy. AMX-30B2 BRENUS is just BS in my opinion as it should be presented as an upgrade to AMX-30B2.

 

I use M60A1 (AOS) as an example to explain this system. There is RISE Passive Modernization that can be researched in the vehicles modification of M60A1 (AOS).

Certain models of ammunition can only be used after the necessary Modernization upgrade is unlocked and installed. When stock as M60A1(AOS), the stock ammo is M735 and the upgraded ammo is M774. After the RISE Passive Modernization is installed, M833 is available as upgrade ammo.

 

The vehicles’ name will change when Modernizations are installed, so others can know the exact model or configuration of the vehicles in battles. For example. The name will change from M60A1(AOS) to M60A1 RISE Passive when the RISE Passive Modernization is installed.

M1's don't even have M833 or M900.  Which is insane actually.

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56 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Too many "paper" vehicles.  They aren't coming so concentrate on stuff that did exist, and make this a REAL discussion.  It needs to happen.

There are only 3 paper vehicle: P30/34 bis, Dovunque 90/53 gun truck, Tas ( 2 incomplete prototype).

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2 hours ago, kentwong4a28 said:

Tas ( 2 incomplete prototype).

paper does not equal 1 complete iron p. and 1 incomplete armor plate prototype, that was only missing the third 75mm gun which was in production.

Still in this state its eligible for at least a premium vehicle status.

Edited by Jacky95
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1 hour ago, Jacky95 said:

paper does not equal 1 complete iron p. and 1 incomplete armor plate prototype, that was only missing the third 75mm gun which was in production.

Still in this state its eligible for at least a premium vehicle status.

you and I think so...will Gaijin?

 

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56 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

you and I think so...will Gaijin?

 

well yep..gaijin that puts a prototype into the normal tech tree and puts actually produced ones into the premium tree......

still whether or not gaijin does it, in theory, prototypes are accepted and are eligible for addition.

there was a pic some time ago that showcased these phases and some criterias..cant find it tho

Edited by Jacky95

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On 24/04/2019 at 18:33, BlueBeta said:

You know that the RISE is not just the era pack installed? The tank is different. If a tank is the same Gaijin already did a researchable add on like the BV version. But if the tank got other modifications like engine, cannon and other stuff... Well it's another tank

I change my assumption slightly.

 

Ok, RISE is indeed a significant upgrade so it should be a separate vehicles. However, I think small upgrades like AOS can be a searchable upgrade for M60A1. The BMP-1 has BMP-1P upgrade.

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I personally prefer if Italy get's Spanish and/or Portuguese vehicles instead of Romanian or Hungarian vehicles because these nations tho being neutral has strong axis leanings and unlike Hungary or Romania which became part of the Iron Curtain, in extension is geopolitically closer to the Soviet Union than to the west and both countries have enough designs to fill in a TT's of their own, Spain and Portugal though still being "neutral" have strong ties to Italy and the West. Spain and Portugal have some native designs and unique variants of existing vehicles they don't have enough to fill in a TT even with rampant Copy & pasting of existing vehicles from other TT's

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