Ouiche,

¿why is the US T95 RB repair cost so high and it even got upped?

it's a very ineffective vehicle, extremely slow and not very manouverable, which makes it unsuitable/unusuable in a lot of RB maps and it regularly faces post-war tanks with heatfs and APDS that ignore the frontal armor completely(leo 1 for example). The side skirt armor is also behaving incorrectly, acting as if it were "last armor" and ignoring the internal parts of the tracks meaning that shells that should fuze and detonate inside the skirts or tracks are passing through and detonating inside the main compartment, of the shrapnel passes through ignoring the side armor.

The gun is nothing to write home about either, it has no heatfs and the APHE round has problems with heavy tanks at the ranges this TD is supposed to be engaging in the first place(which is long range +500m, due to lack of mobility), for example it can't pen an IS6 even with APCR at those ranges(maybe a small pixel or a random shot trap), the optics are also very bad lacking any kind of meaningul zoom for long range, reload is nothing special either

 

yet it got upped by 460 to 10740 which is the 3rd highest repair cost of all GF(after the T32's, not even M1A1 has such high cost, you can repair 10 M18 for one T95, when M18 is a plague at its BR) but in SB it got raised by more than 50% to 17K!!!

         
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1 hour ago, przybysz86 said:

P-47M in SB with 240% SL reward?  you got to be joking.

That's 30 euro, rank 4 premium plane that have lower earning than regular rank 2 planes - what the hell? 

EDIT:
another one: premium Do-335 B-2 with 180% :facepalm:
rank I He-112 have higher reward than rank 4 premium?
 

 

Thanks for pointing that. Going to have a look.

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SILVER LIONS repair costs

for france : RB

-AMC-30 DCA, still 4x/5x more than the  german Gepard, (Gepard is better than the AMX-30 DCA)

-S.O.4050 Vautour IIB/IIA repair cost is too high, (before heat seekers the ycould run, now they are easy targets)

-Lorraine 40t, only lost 3000 SL (24k to 21k), at 7.3, br it can go back at 8000 SL repair cost

-AMX-50, still no change or its unnoticable, lower it to under 10k (currently at 20k)

 

and other french tanks that makes no sence what so ever in SL repair cost,

they have most of them got a BR up, so why keep they SL repair cost high ?

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3 minutes ago, Ouiche said:

 

Thanks for pointing that. Going to have a look.

thank you - there are more planes like that (Hudson for example)_but those two I've mentioned are most obvious being rank IV and having lowest rewards of the lot.

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1 hour ago, freejones12 said:

While this is a step in the right direction, there is still work to do. Some countries still have egregious repair costs. I do not believe that the T32E1 deserved to have its own repair go up to 15k, ESPECIALLY after the nerf to 7.3. Its only just competent there and will get absolutely smoked in an uptier. If you are going to make the vehicle easier to kill and less effective overall, do not increase its repair costs. Also, French tanks are STILL too expensive. 16k for the Lorraine 40t is asanine, and the AMX-50 is probably too expensive as well. I truthfully don't understand what repair costs are even for. They don't balance the tanks at all. A 40t is going to be as effective with a 2k repair cost as a 16k. Perhaps you should focus on making the game FUN before you make a virtual economy based off of it. Fun is being able to play your favorite tanks, not manage repair costs.

I agree that the T32 is too expensive! but Lorraine is very OP because it has good mobility and sequential shots, with only 3 shot the Lorraine destroyed my Merkava from the front!

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23 minutes ago, Ouiche said:

On the AMX-10RC (...) modules, they got an SL reduction, but no RP reduction.

 

So this is intentional? I'm just wondering, because when you compare the two Me 262 Cs, for one the airframe (just as an example) costs 14k, for the other 56k, despite them being at the exact same BR.

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Good changes overall, but for goodness sake, stop using repair costs as a means of balance!. It does not work, and it punishes players. Set a repair cost for each vehicle, and NEVER touch it again. Not a single player wants rep costs to be used for balance.

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Chieftain Mk10 - you did a typo while doing the update and put the ammo at 200 instead of 610 ;)

120mm_britain_L23_APDSFS   = 820   200   -620

 

Edited by Trud3R
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19 minutes ago, strayk9BR said:

I agree that the T32 is too expensive! but Lorraine is very OP because it has good mobility and sequential shots, with only 3 shot the Lorraine destroyed my Merkava from the front!

Okay, but how is making the Lorraine more expensive going to keep it from blowing your merkava away in an individual battle? You see my point is that repair costs do not affect the performance of a tank. You will always encounter that tank regardless of its repair costs, so perhaps an alternative balancing method is required.

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11 minutes ago, Galaxiesaver said:

Good changes overall, but for goodness sake, stop using repair costs as a means of balance!. It does not work, and it punishes players. Set a repair cost for each vehicle, and NEVER touch it again. Not a single player wants rep costs to be used for balance.

I understand the rationale; higher repair costs means less of the tank being used. HOWEVER that does not change the fact that there are enough players that you'll usually encounter the same tanks anyways, and you'll usually be killed by them because the tank performs the same regardless of its repair. There needs to be a different system to balance.

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1 hour ago, AscallonX said:

further examples:

german Mig-15bis

Meteor F mk 8 g41k

 

if somebody find other vehicles pls add

 

 

 2nd Me-262C

and both japnese F-86

 

all no rp reduction on modules

 

more to come

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@Ouiche

@Scarper

 

I understand that balancing some vehicles is a hard task but for me BR indicates the capabilities of a vehicle. So following that logic all vehicles with the same BR should perform similar and have similar repair costs. You can add slight differences but 20k+ repair cost indicates clearly that something is wrong. If the BR change would lead to impossible constellations then maybe after years a decompression and total overhaul of the system is required. I think a lot of players don't mind waiting 3-5 minutes when they can get fair matches without looding tons of SL while playing their favourite vehicles.

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RB repair cost :

 

this is stil too high , it shouldev not been above 8K all modes.

Lorraine 40t       18650 16200 -2450
AMX-30 DCA 16960 14710 -2250 4800 3730 -1070
AMX-50       15360 15470 110

 

why are these even getting a price raise ? whene they are performing just average

AMX-13 DCA 40       1100 2280 1180
AMX-50       15360 15470 110
M.D.450B Barougan       8982 9400 418
M.D.452 IIC 2880 2880 0 8010 10960 2950

 

this does not make sense.

the Vautours cant run anymmore becaus of the heatseekers,and can be easily catched up. there is no reason to rain the SL.

and on top of that , the Vautour that gets the heatseekers gets price lowered ?

S.O.4050 Vautour IIB 17000 21960 4960 11376 12520 1144
S.O.4050 Vautour IIA 17000 21280 4280 10584 16000 5416
Vautour IIA IDF/AF 7200 5690 -1510 5823 5720 -103

 

these are just a small portion of the frnech vehicles that needs a SL reduced repair cost, much more of them are needing a reduce cost !

 

in the end, playing france is punishment and does not reward you playing the nation.

only a small fraction (less than1%) can play them without dying all the time, and if you die it takes away 10 victories worth of money.

you are looking at vehicles stats that are only give to you by the best of the best players,

you need to look with an eye that is for average casual players,

 

if the price dont get much much lower, nobody will play them,

Edited by AlphaVI
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I am really surprised the Repair cost of the Tunguska did not increase so far.

 

I am really aware of the things that that SAM can do at any game mode and I really think that 8k Repair cost does not make enough justice.

 

I think that SAMs that will come (including the Tunguska) will have to have ONLY 1 SPAWN in Simulator battles first off. Secondly the repair cost shall have some additional data in the equation so that the repair cost becomes more fair, that is: how EASILY can you gain/get kills with that tank?

 

THE WIN LOSS RATIO: If you consider the Win/Loss ratio you will likely meet FALSE POSITIVES, WIN/LOSS ratio is not a good indicator of how good a SAM is.

 

If you do not agree please read the following and give a score to the following Facts from 1 to 10 - these are the current CAPABILITIES of the TUNGUSKA

 

1. Erase every kind of Enenemy Air Support / CAS / CAP and give way to the Russian Aviation (there is absolutely NO WAY you can take down a Tunguska with your plane) - and tell me

how easy is that on a 1-10 scale? I would say 9 missiles out of 10 hit me at the first attempt in my F-100D (not mentioning the Helicopters, it's a SLAUGHTER) - I give 9/10

 

2. Sit in your spawn and look at your radar, you will just have to look at the radar, you don't need any visual contact and you don't have to go beyong your spawn place (seems pretty easy ay?)  - I give 9/10

 

3. Even when you meet other MBTs you still have a chance to kill them, not very easily, it happens rarely...YET IT HAPPENS. I would say 5/10

 

If you comply all the above (more likely 1 and 2, less likely 3) terms and your team loses it doesn't mean that your vehicle does not have enough power to win the match but it either means that

 

1. Your team had too many Tunguska's deployed, hence its strenght to fight other ground vehicles gets highly reduced (yet not a problem of the Tunguska but "team-vehicle management")

2. Your team is full of unexperienced players (yet not a problem of the Tunguska)

3. All the other Russian MBTs or Light Vehicles are not as strong as the other ones (yet not a problem of the Tunguska)

 

As you can see the Tunguska IS NOT the reason why your team loses, on the contrary the more Tunguskas the russian team has, the more likely it will lose due to it being useless against other Tanks.

 

Now the point is simple: since the Tunguska IS NOT MEANT to fight other tanks (and if people die with it, this will happen cause your team is not covering you or because of yourself not playing your SAM as you are supposed to play it) COST should rely GREATLY on its EASY GAMEPLAY/EASY GAIN capabilities and to a LESSER EXTENT to its K/D Ratio-W/L Ratio since this data, as demonstrated above gives false positives as far as SAM type vehicles are concerned.

 

CONCLUSION: One should decide to play Tunguska as it will give a very good advantage and good "no fly zones"

 

but the equation at the current point is "LOW RISK (almost no loss in money) - VERY HIGH (easy) GAIN"


The equation should change in this way "HIGH RISK (much higher Repair cost) - VERY HIGH (easy) REWARD".

 

TL;DR Tunguska deserves a much higher repair cost for its potential and capabilities.

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Some of the changes are very welcome, but I have to ask and I hope that someone gives an honest response, but what are your plans for strategic bombers? Many are overtiered, most are overpriced for repair costs, and all of them can be shot down easily by an enemy who has all the advantages going for him. Considering both the neglect in terms of bomber gameplay that we have had for many patches now as well as the refusal to have a meaningful reexamination of BRs and repair costs, I would really like to know what Gaijin is aiming for. 

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I just can't do it, took out the Leo2A5, capped, got killed, 20k repair after earning 3k. After dying i don't want to take anything else in my line up, this is really frustrating, this needs a response. This repair balance is heavy handed. leo2a5 23k to repair, leo2a4 14k, bagel is like 5k for me atm. 1.7k for the gepard atm. 10k for my mig19s... If i play the 2A5, im just taking it out alone and when i die i'm gonna return to hanger. I'm not wasting more SL on other tanks which will further increase the cost per game.

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So everything got a repair reduction expect for the E100, which got an increase again. It is now 31,000 silver lions to repair, explain that one to me. :facepalm: You should at least add the change to the google doc.

 

Edited by *BATTLEIRON13
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Please lower the repair cost of the B-29A because it is pretty damn hard to break even with it let alone profit. Also, although I do play America top tier and have suffered under the reign of the Leopard 2A5, there is no need to dramatically increase it's repair cost and make it basically the Abrams 2.0. I also noticed the standardized she'll cost for top tier which I do appreciate. One thing I would like is the lowering of the purchase price of APFSDS to somewhere below 600 SL per round. Overall good changes throughout, however, there is still some left to be desired.

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1 hour ago, AlphaVI said:

SILVER LIONS repair costs

for france : RB

-AMC-30 DCA, still 4x/5x more than the  german Gepard, (Gepard is better than the AMX-30 DCA)

-S.O.4050 Vautour IIB/IIA repair cost is too high, (before heat seekers the ycould run, now they are easy targets)

-Lorraine 40t, only lost 3000 SL (24k to 21k), at 7.3, br it can go back at 8000 SL repair cost

-AMX-50, still no change or its unnoticable, lower it to under 10k (currently at 20k)

 

This^^

 

Also the repair cost of Tier 7 and some Tier 6 like the m11p for example are still way too high, for the Tier 7 balance you need to play with their Br not their repair prices.

Same goes for the AMX 10 rc, it got the same repair price as the centauro which is faster and stabilised could be great to have a bit more of a reduction on it.

 

Edited by unwinder66
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6 minutes ago, Galaxiesaver said:

Good changes overall, but for goodness sake, stop using repair costs as a means of balance!. It does not work, and it punishes players. Set a repair cost for each vehicle, and NEVER touch it again. Not a single player wants rep costs to be used for balance.

 

It's not that easy. We don't buff / nerf vehicles specs (it would solve a lot of problems, but players would raid our offices with real tanks), but some vehicles get changed (bug fixes), some game parameters are modified / fixed (eg : thermodynamic adding overheating, leading to a reduction in effective climb rate, ballistic system, shell netcode synchro), and vehicles do not fight in a vacuum : they fight other vehicles. If you add a vehicle in one BR bracket, the balance will change. The game keep evolving.


Now, despite our ~1100-1200 vehicles in game there are still problematic area because the real vehicles were never meant to be balanced. They were tools made to solve one problem, and often the goal was to basically sealclub the enemy (physically, economically). At the same time, a game can't truly model reality (yet!) and vehicles are only a part of the big picture (range, production cost, fuel consumption, crew training, reliability, upgrade capability...). New generations of vehicles led to massive performance increase, some nations had issues continuing development at some point in the last 80 years... real life is not balanced and we have to deal with it.

 

We understand it's frustrating and players dislike variations of the repair cost (there was a lot of chat in the team on economy, br in general), unfortunately it's apparently really complicated to get something with similar or better performance. (or with a better positive / negative ratio, depending of your point of view).

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