AdelWolf

JU 288C - Be-6

Had this sim battle yesterday, ju288 pilot made no attempt to play simply spawned and flew towards the enemy base without climbing after bombing the base he would simply J out rather than trying to land if he survived. I don't know why but he did not have the 5 minute spawn cooldown it does when I fly mine. At all times there was about 3 or more fighters waiting in his path to shoot him down, he still made it to the base  60% of the time.

 

By itself it wasn't that bad, it was fun coming up with ways to sabotage his runs. All of the annoying issues it caused were a result of poor economic and gameplay design. All the people who were intercepting him lost SL for their kills. The reward is almost 10% of killing ju288s in air RB on top of that many people would not get kills from destroying him anyway, you would shoot off his tail and it would be counted as a crash, if it was near the base AI AAA could be credited with the kill. Additionally the single bomber was able to inflict more points than our entire team completing objectives could, early in the game his team was poorly populated and we still couldn't keep up in points. Due to the ease of winning he was able to ignore spawn costs as the victory bonus pushes him into a significant SL profit while the opposing team is stuck with almost nothing or negative income for 2 hours of gameplay.

 

All of this could be easily be fixed without annoying the ju288 owners, drastically reduce the number of tickets base bombing does it needs to be 25% of where it is. If the sabotage to the kill and assist system in air isn't fixed SL rewards for kills probably need to be increased by 5x to 10x. Alternatively it might be possible to to fix it by creating an achievement for killing certain bombers in sim mode, if there was a 10k or 20k SL reward for killing them it would make the risk/reward viable.

ju288.jpg

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The bomber spam wouldn't be as bad if they were at least playable in rb. A single round hits one and it explodes. People always want to argue that planes aren't as strong as others make them out to be. That may be true in some cases, but irl it wasn't as easy to aim and there were many more bombers all in formation. People get angry at bombers like the b29 space climbing, but what choice do they have? Dive down and pay 50k repair? When you land, you get an air spawn so you can't j out. People are just responding to the decisions made by gaijin.

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32 minutes ago, SgtStryker said:

When you land, you get an air spawn so you can't j out. People are just responding to the decisions made by gaijin. 

ell them that if you land immediately after air-spawn (dob't drop bombs or shoot even single round from turrets) they should not get timer and should be able to j-out but it might still count as death

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2 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

ell them that if you land immediately after air-spawn (dob't drop bombs or shoot even single round from turrets) they should not get timer and should be able to j-out but it might still count as death

 

Does not, but that inability to leave aircraft until repair is an issue.

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Might be time to rename EC-4 to BC-4... Bomber Command

 

Maybe we should ask if LastGreyAngel can use the proceeds of these sales to hire a programmer to help Dawger in his project to improve SIM Air? 

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2 minutes ago, *Nobody__0wens said:

Might be time to rename EC-4 to BC-4... Bomber Command

 

Maybe we should ask if LastGreyAngel can use the proceeds of these sales to hire a programmer to help Dawger in his project to improve SIM Air? 

We will get there. I try to do at least one bug report each day and work on follow up. It may not seem like it, but progress is happening.

 

 

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I played some BC4 yesterday in German and Russian fighters vs USA... The joyful by product was I had a wealth of fighters to face. As soon as I engaged, there were 3 or 4 americans waiting to pounce! 3 vs 1 is a hard situation... so I figured I'd "escort" a friendly 288, maybe I could use him for cover... he team killed me.

 

Can someone send us a letter announcing when EC4 has returned to a semblance of balance?

 

My address until then is:

Mr. Lonely Fighter

288 Satans Alley

Stalingrad, Russia EC22EC3

 

 

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Yes, I thought the bad days of ECs being decided simply by the tonnage dropped were over, as since the last changes it appeared capping zones, CAS, bombing all contributed roughly equally to victory, with no one method being disproportionately effective. Then I joined a game a couple days ago with just one 55 mins on the clock so plenty of time left. Got into the game and see we’ve already lost one base.... wrong, before I can select an airfield, we’ve lost another.  Spawn at the remaining base and see we have almost 50k AS points, but the 288s already have over 100k.  They have so much “air superiority” due to throwing away brand new Ju 288s right after every bomb drop. Loss of aircraft ought to be more significant when it comes to determining “air superiority” - there’s a clue in the term.

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On 11/05/2019 at 22:54, _Dawger_ said:

We will get there. I try to do at least one bug report each day and work on follow up. It may not seem like it, but progress is happening.

 

 

I don't understand why it isn't just fixed, the bombers are given more points for base bombing than the entire enemy team doing objectives are, while bomber earnings are hugely disproportionate with bombers earning perhaps 5 to 6 times as much while fighters earn 10% what they do in air RB for a kill and basically have to pay SL to try and kill the bombers. You could simply reduce the tickets given by base bombing to 25% and boost rewards for kills. Bombers could still grind but without determining the outcome of the match and if there's decent rewards for kills people will hunt them. Adjusting balance by changing a few variables shouldn't take much time.

 

From a logical perspective if you want to win and earn SL there's no reason for players to use anything besides bombers, the rewards and ticket values have been set in that way.

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1 hour ago, lizardmech said:

I don't understand why it isn't just fixed, the bombers are given more points for base bombing than the entire enemy team doing objectives are, while bomber earnings are hugely disproportionate with bombers earning perhaps 5 to 6 times as much while fighters earn 10% what they do in air RB for a kill and basically have to pay SL to try and kill the bombers. You could simply reduce the tickets given by base bombing to 25% and boost rewards for kills. Bombers could still grind but without determining the outcome of the match and if there's decent rewards for kills people will hunt them. Adjusting balance by changing a few variables shouldn't take much time.

 

From a logical perspective if you want to win and earn SL there's no reason for players to use anything besides bombers, the rewards and ticket values have been set in that way.

War Thunder is a pretty big enterprise and simulator battles is only a small portion of it. 

 

Attention is being called to the bomber issues in SB EC. How it will be addressed is not certain but I do know I am writing bug reports every day aimed at improving the SB game play. Bugs do get addressed as long as someone is championing there progress and I am doing that.

 

The economics of WT are never as simple as portrayed above. All this stuff is data driven. I will continue to push for bug fixes. Personally, I think if third person was removed from SB and the major bugs fixed the bomber problems would go away.  

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1 hour ago, _Dawger_ said:

War Thunder is a pretty big enterprise and simulator battles is only a small portion of it. 

 

Attention is being called to the bomber issues in SB EC. How it will be addressed is not certain but I do know I am writing bug reports every day aimed at improving the SB game play. Bugs do get addressed as long as someone is championing there progress and I am doing that.

 

The economics of WT are never as simple as portrayed above. All this stuff is data driven. I will continue to push for bug fixes. Personally, I think if third person was removed from SB and the major bugs fixed the bomber problems would go away.  

Dawger,

 

Glad you are workin the field.

 

Whatever algorithms are being used it appears they apply across modes and have some latency. What is difficult, I imagine for gaiijin, is to predict what the humans in their equations are going to do, AND unless they have boots on the ground, they desperately need feedback from people like yourself. The most someone like me can do is point to the problems I CAN smell. How this feedback is factored into the game (if at all) is a mystery.

 

Being DATA driven is great until your algorithms produce the 2008 financial collapse.

 

War thunder is a VERY complex environment... so I remain patient. BUT, the current state of EC4 is pretty abysmal compared to EC2 and EC3. The obvious factors to us boots on the ground are a few bombers and their costs/rewards and their "abilities" (3p view, mouse gunnery, etc). The more complex factors involve the grind as a whole, the META of RB/AB, and humanity itself.

 

My patience means I play occasionally, yet less, and even with sales I find myself less likely to spend real dollars... Until the bottleneck of EC4 is fixed. And the bottleneck at EC4 means half of the EC AIr levels will remain mostly unplayed by people such as myself and the lower levels played less.

 

But I am just one data point in the complex system.

 

Thanks for your good work.

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image.png.48a0e0aa9ee6d0d10bba163114844f

This was posted on our discord today by one of our members, pretty much sums up the situation.

Bomb/Bail Out & Repeat

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1 hour ago, _Thrash_ said:

image.png.48a0e0aa9ee6d0d10bba163114844f

@Me4huk I'd say that this is typical EC4 RU team these days (definitely not an execption) - just in case you need something to show to someone ;)

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23 hours ago, _Dawger_ said:

 

 

The economics of WT are never as simple as portrayed above. All this stuff is data driven. I will continue to push for bug fixes. Personally, I think if third person was removed from SB and the major bugs fixed the bomber problems would go away.  

How is this remotely reasonable? 1 hour in my ju288 vs two hours trying to stop them in a wyvern and scoring multiple kills. The spawn costs for the Ju288 match were 13k, and something like 50k for the fighter one. I did not use third person gunner in the Ju288 even once. Had I not used my wyvern with it's cheap spawn costs I would be negative SL just from fighting enemy bombers. I also discovered if you join a game with a ju288 and no other planes it completely bypasses the 5 minute span cooldown. There's a guy who does this every single day, bails out of the bomber everytime and spawns a new one, he inflicts so much base damage it's a guaranteed win and the money from the win prevents him losing any SL. He has 36 sim battles in his Ju288 with 100% win rate.

 

Their algorithmic balance system is totally broken, I like to play ground RB T5+m, naval RB and Air Sim, since they started messing with all the repair costs and earnings via the algorithm a year or two ago I have been unable to reliably earn SL even with premium time and premium vehicles. It's very frustrating I have something like 15 million SL worth of researched vehicles I can't afford to buy.  What is crazy is they are rewarding people for disruptive gameplay, I could get the 15 million SL by bombing bases for 50 hours in the Ju288, if I buy a bunch of premium fighters and play sim properly for 50 hours I might make a few hundred thousand or possibly nothing at all.

ju288income.jpg

wyvernincome.jpg

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3 hours ago, cpt_nosh said:

...I bought the Be-6 yesterday...

and here's your answer on why GJ won't change a damn thing. You are just feeding the beast

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1 hour ago, przybysz86 said:

and here's your answer on why GJ won't change a damn thing. You are just feeding the beast

 

Yes, yes I am. Do you know why? Because I liertally can't afford what I like to play anymore despite the "Economy changes" recently. SL income is just so incredibly bad. You know what answer I got on this forum over the last 3 years? Buy premiums. I was against it. But I arrive at the point where I cannot play anymore because I can't afford it SL wise. Seems like their strategy was good after all.

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4 minutes ago, cpt_nosh said:

 

Yes, yes I am. Do you know why? Because I liertally can't afford what I like to play anymore despite the "Economy changes" recently. SL income is just so incredibly bad. You know what answer I got on this forum over the last 3 years? Buy premiums. I was against it. But I arrive at the point where I cannot play anymore because I can't afford it SL wise. Seems like their strategy was good after all.

to clarify - you did what is best for you.

I do not despise people using Be-6 or Ju-288 in EC (even if they normally play AB or RB). People will do what's best for them and now Be-6 is better investment than year worth of premium account.

Problem is GJ allows that, which ruins the game for everyone else.

Edited by przybysz86
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I wonder where is the promised BR change patch. The promised economy patch came already. Raising the BR of Be-6 and Ju-288 would probably make the EC IV more playable.

Edited by esapekkis
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On 13/05/2019 at 05:15, cpt_nosh said:

Hey I bought the Be-6 yesterday for exactly this now, don't you dare change anything!

Noooooo!!!!!

 

Nosh has been bit by a zombie!

 

Another good soul lost to the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!

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Honestly, it's quite a relieve to get out of matches with some SL now... Can't do but tell you to give in if you're depenant on the SL.

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On 26/04/2019 at 08:09, esapekkis said:

Apparently there is a bug which allows Ju288C respawn immeadiately again without any cooldown. This does not happen in every game. Another 5.3 BR plane I have seen doing the same was a Pe-8. I have no idea what might cause this (haven't personally been able to respawn in a 5.3 fighter without the timer yet), but especially the Ju288C "pilots" really take full advantage of it whenever it is possible.

 

Seems like the people who can spam the Ju288C endlessly* have only that plane on their lineup and nothing else. Just tried to join a battle with my Fw190 D9 while I had sent every other crew slot to holidays. And I was able to respawn immediately again to the BR 5.3 Fw 190 right after I died without any timers. This did not work when I joiend an EC IV game with lineup of 3x 4.7 BR plane and the Fw190 D9, so seems like you have to keep the 5.3 BR as your only crew slot if you want to spawm it endlessly.

 

*(as long as you have enough sapwn points)

 

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I've been taking out my He 219 to take out the Be6's its satisfying, all that firepower.

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4 hours ago, esapekkis said:

 

Seems like the people who can spam the Ju288C endlessly* have only that plane on their lineup and nothing else. Just tried to join a battle with my Fw190 D9 while I had sent every other crew slot to holidays. And I was able to respawn immediately again to the BR 5.3 Fw 190 right after I died without any timers. This did not work when I joiend an EC IV game with lineup of 3x 4.7 BR plane and the Fw190 D9, so seems like you have to keep the 5.3 BR as your only crew slot if you want to spawm it endlessly.

 

*(as long as you have enough sapwn points)

 

does it work if you have 5.3 + higher BRs or does it have to be 5.3 and only 5.3? ALso what if you have more than one 5.3 in that case?

 

Edited by przybysz86
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