Praevasc

What's the point in the Stug III F?

I want to use the Pz IV F2 extensively, and I'm searching for companions to respawn into, when the inevitable happens.

For AB, the only vehicle of the same BR (besides AA-guns) is the Stug III F.

 

However, comparing this Stug to the Pz IV F2, and to it's predecessor, the BR 3.0 StuH 42 G, I fail to understand what it's doing at BR 3.7.

 

I thought (and until now it seemed so) that tank destroyers sacrifice a rotating turret to be able to carry either a more powerful gun, or more armor, or both.

However, the Stug III F carries the exact same gun as the Pz IV F2, and its armor is also the same. So what did I sacrifice the turret for?

 

My point was not to complain, but to ask whether the Stug III F has some advantages I failed to consider.

 

Comparing it to the StuH 42 G, it has

- a BR 0.7 higher

- much weaker armor!

- besides the already thinner armor, no possibility for add-on armor

- only marginally better gun (and a much worse HEAT shell!)

 

Comparing it to the Pz IV F2, it has

- the same BR (and in realistic, 0.4 higher BR)

- the same gun, same armor thickness, but no rotating turret

- no smoke, no artillery, no machinegun

- smaller crew, with 3 of them sitting right behind each other behind a thin frontal plate

 

The StuH 42 G could stop plenty of shells, the Stug III F will be penetrated by pretty much anything. Penetrated from the front? Losing 3/4 of the crew. Penetrated from the side? The engine, the driver or the transmission knocked out, and while the PzIV coud lat least rotate the turret to defend itself, the Stug will sit motionless until the enemy reloads, then it dies.

 

What positive points of the Stug III F did I fail to take into account? Yes, lower profile. That's it?

If it's really that underpowerd for its level, what should I put into the lineup of my Pz IV F2 ? I don't want to purchase reserves for every battle.

Edited by Praevasc

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Yeah it's weaker than the F2. It's been there since tanks came out and nobody has really cares about it enough to get it's BR changed.

 

It's decent enough to go along with the F2 in your lineup.

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One set of advantages that hasn't been mentioned is that the Stug does earn more SL and RP then the F2 for the same actions. 

 

In Arcade mode, the stug's modifier for RP is 130% and 100% for SL, while for the F2, it's only has a RP modifier of 124% and 80% for SL. Needless to say a 20% modifer for SL definetly a small but substantial bonus for its BR. (imagine earning 800SL for capping a point with the F2, while the Stug gets 1000SL for the same capping)

 

In Realistic battles, its not so much with the Stug's modifier being 130% for RP and 120% for SL while the F2 gets 124% for RP and 110% for SL.

 

However, the above point can be moot when comparing the Stug III F rewards stat with the StuH 42 G model, as they both has nearly the same numbers. (The 42 G has +10% SL in Arcade)  Though in another perspective, the Stug F could probably get things done better/more efficiently with it's cannon then the StuH 42 can if they're facing the same enemies (since you want something to pair with the Pz.IV F2)

 

Though Overall, I agree with the above assessment.  The Stug III F really needs to be a notch below the F2 in BR, if not at least the same BR in all modes.  Though it can still make a great back-up vehicle for your line-up with the Pz.IV F2.

Edited by JackRob7
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I think some BR levels depend more on what the vehicle can kill rather than what it can survive.

 

StuG 42 G = 70-115 mm of penetration

StuG III F = 135-175 mm of penetration

Pz IV F2 = 135-175 mm of penetration

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4 hours ago, LelandBuzzHarley said:

I think some BR levels depend more on what the vehicle can kill rather than what it can survive.

 

If that was true, the SU-5-1 would be BR 4.0 instead of 1.3

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5 hours ago, Praevasc said:

 

If that was true, the SU-5-1 would be BR 4.0 instead of 1.3

 

I said some BR levels. The StuG III F can still hold it's own alongside the Panzer F2, they're just different vehicles. Every BR has a mix of different vehicles that can kill whatever they come up against. Some are well armored tanks, some are light tanks, some are tank destroyers with anywhere from inpenetrable to zero armor. The Pz 4H and Dicker Max is another example. Roughly same penetration but one is a tank, the other an open top with no turret and very light armor.

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On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 21:45, Praevasc said:

Comparing it to the Pz IV F2, it has

- the same BR (and in realistic, 0.4 higher BR)

- the same gun, same armor thickness, but no rotating turret

A StuG IIIF has a few advantages over a Pz IV F2:

- The armor of the hull is sloping (a bit), which makes the effective armor 57-74 mm

- The StuG is lower and is therefore a smaller target and less visible (Pz IV F2: 98%, StuG IIIF: 73%)

I use the StuG more for fighting from a larger distance, where the absence of a turret is not that important.

 

But no vehicle is the same as another vehicle at the same BR. Gaijin reduced the number of possible BR's and therefore you will always have some vehicles which are clearly weaker than another at the same BR. Or even weaker vehicles at a higher BR.

If you for instance compare the StuG IIIA with the Italian 75/34 M42 you see this:

Frontal armor:        StuG IIIA: 50mm      72/34 M42: 50mm

Side armor:            StuG IIIA: 30mm      72/34 M42: 25mm

Penetration HEAT: StuG IIIA: 100mm    72/34 M42 100mm

Speed:                   StuG IIIA: 47 km/h   72/34 M42: 41 km/h

Crew:                     StuG IIIA: 4 men      72/34 M42:  3 men

Smoke ammo:       StuG IIIA: yes           72/34 M42:  no

On a whole the StuG III seems a little bit better, so let's have a look at the BR's of these vehicles:

BR:                        StuG IIIA: BR 2.3     72/34 M42: 3.0 (originally this was even 3.3)

I still don't understand this. Maybe it is because the standard ammo of the Italian vehicle penetrates better, but since both vehicles have no turret and are not massively armored I keep the enemy at a distance and just about always use the HEAT ammo.

 

Edited by *a-prost15
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4 hours ago, *a-prost15 said:

- The armor of the hull is sloping (a bit), which makes the effective armor 57-74 mm

And the StuH 42 G just below it at 3.0 has 80 mm armor and can have add-on armor on top of it.

 

4 hours ago, *a-prost15 said:

If you for instance compare the StuG IIIA with the Italian 75/34 M42

One advantage of the Italian is a higher shell velocity, therefore flatter firing arc, so better long-range accuracy. (of course, this still doesn't warrant the BR it's at)

Edited by Praevasc

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18 hours ago, Praevasc said:

And the StuH 42 G just below it at 3.0 has 80 mm armor and can have add-on armor on top of it.

But that one has a very long reload (10-13 seconds depending on crew level). I do prefer the StuG IIIF over the StuH 42 G, but that's my preference. When I attack these vehicles I always try to attack then from the side (as head on attacks usually result in my death) and then the extra frontal armor makes no difference (as long as you don't use HEAT ammo when shooting at its side...).

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This game is based on real vehicles mostly and it tries to include the bunch of statistics and performances to asses the ability and BR of any given vehicle - for the most part this does fairly good but the system is far from perfect. You will find imbalances like that not just in between various BRs and nations but within the same nation tree as well. 

 

Realistically, not all vehicles are equally good. Some shine in their respective BRs, some are a true pain to play. In earlier BRs you can afford to play because of historical value or cool factor whatever you like. Later, you may want to be more pragmatic if you wanna keep your sanity and pick what works best for you. Not all researched vehicles need to be taken onto the field. 

 

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