AJAtcho

Stormer HVM Short-range air defense missile system

3 hours ago, zuadao said:

 

i allready did. as soon as the second dev came out.

 

prints also taken and i advise you to do the same

@Smin1080p

 

deleting my posts wont shut me up. you ppl need to take care of this or release an official statement saying war thunder no longer follows historical accuracy.

 

I have deleted nothing so im not quite sure as to what your referring too? 

 

The Stormer is not the only machine coming in the next update and not the only bug report the tech mods have to process. The dev server section currently has a lot of reports on many other subject areas such as the Japanese Fleet, of which there are many machines. The tech mods will get to the report. 

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16 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

I have deleted nothing so im not quite sure as to what your referring too? 

 

The Stormer is not the only machine coming in the next update and not the only bug report the tech mods have to process. The dev server section currently has a lot of reports on many other subject areas such as the Japanese Fleet, of which there are many machines. The tech mods will get to the report. 

 

its the only machine with such a game breaking bug feel free to prove me wrong. 

 

kudos for fixing the leo 2a5 neutral turn. it was rly needing it. hope they fix everything on it so the devs can finaly focus on the challenger 2.

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1 hour ago, zuadao said:

 

its the only machine with such a game breaking bug feel free to prove me wrong. 

 

Im sure the Leclerc and M1A1 players also submitting bug reports also feel the same way about their issues. 

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2 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

Im sure the Leclerc and M1A1 players also submitting bug reports also feel the same way about their issues. 

This is true, everyone feels there problems are the most important and deserve priority truth is the only way anything is going to get done is if everyone stops getting so hostile and actually starts working together. In te case of the Starstreak it will require everyone to be patient with Smin is right, it's a big update and there will be a lot of bug reports for the moderators to go through permanently pestering them won't speed them up. but Zuado is right this is an important issue but the best way he can help it is to be patient.

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The problem with the starstreak right now is for some reason we have to guide and lead it like an ATGM. What doesnt help it has a stupid circle tank site, these missles were aimed using a square screen. In real life the target is kept in the centre of the screen because the laser has to be projected on the target which the data gets sent back down and fed to missle for course correction. Once the missle is fired no human control is required the tracking and guidance system guide the missle onto the target. It's a fire and forget system the thales documentation says so. The current system you have in game makes it so damn hard to hit targets when you lock because you have to lead for some reason the missle goes off screen because of the stupid aiming system. @Smin1080p is there plans to change this? Because currently it makes the starstreak useless in it's current state. Look under the features and benefits part of the document it states fire and forget.

Screenshot_20190507-183601_Dropbox.thumb

Edited by *oppsijustkilledu
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24 minutes ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

The problem with the starstreak right now is for some reason we have to guide and lead it like an ATGM. What doesnt help it has a stupid circle tank site, these missles were aimed using a square screen. In real life the target is kept in the centre of the screen because the laser has to be projected on the target which the data gets sent back down and fed to missle for course correction. Once the missle is fired no human control is required the tracking and guidance system guide the missle onto the target. It's a fire and forget system the thales documentation says so. The current system you have in game makes it so damn hard to hit targets when you lock because you have to lead for some reason the missle goes off screen because of the stupid aiming system. @Smin1080p is there plans to change this? Because currently it makes the starstreak useless in it's current state. Look under the features and benefits part of the document it states fire and forget.

Screenshot_20190507-183601_Dropbox.thumb

 

We dont have immediate plans to create a unique sight for 1 machine in the game, but there are several things to this:

 

1) You can create / download custom sights

2) Feel free to make a suggestion in the correct section and we can always pass the idea on. 

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7 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

We dont have immediate plans to create a unique sight for 1 machine in the game, but there are several things to this:

 

1) You can create / download custom sights

2) Feel free to make a suggestion in the correct section and we can always pass the idea on. 

I'm on ps4 so that's not even possible. It's not just the site I'm on about it's missing its fire and forget system. It doesnt even have to be a unique site just give the same view as the CR2 it's full screen with no circle. Your current system makes so the moment you lead the missle it goes of out the stupid circle along with the target if they are going left to right and right to left. It makes the missle near impossible to aim. If the system worked as it should where you have to keep the target in the centre of the site it it wouldn't be so bad. But because both the site and guidance system are both incorrect its makes it stupidly hard to use unlike the other missle AA. If the bug report from over a week ago got approved it may get fixed for patch release but no it's going to enter in a broken state because as far as the dev team is concerned it's currently correct.

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1 hour ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

The problem with the starstreak right now is for some reason we have to guide and lead it like an ATGM.

 

Starstreak works just like an ATGM: Semi automatic command line of sight (SACLOS). The missile goes wherever the sight is pointing. Leading the target should not be necessary, but solely because of the high speed of the missile. There are no technical reasons preventing you from leading the target, it's just highly ineffective and inaccurate, and indeed shouldn't be necessary within normal engagement parameters.

 

1 hour ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

 In real life the target is kept in the centre of the screen because the laser has to be projected on the target which the data gets sent back down and fed to missle for course correction. 

 

 

This is incorrect. No laser energy whatsoever has to be projected on the target. You are confusing semi automatic laser homing with laser beam riding. Starstreak uses laser beamriding.

 

1 hour ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

Once the missle is fired no human control is required the tracking and guidance system guide the missle onto the target. It's a fire and forget system the thales documentation says so.

 

Fire and forget? Upgraded version yes, pre-upgrade no. The Automatic Target Tracking (ATT) can automatically track the image in the sight, On pre-upgrade models the operator must manually track the target until impact. So it depends on which version Gaijin has modeled.

 

1 hour ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

The current system you have in game makes it so damn hard to hit targets when you lock because you have to lead for some reason the missle goes off screen because of the stupid aiming system.

 

As noted above, leading the target should not be necessary under normal engagement parameters, if modeled correctly.

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43 minutes ago, krise_madsen said:

 

Starstreak works just like an ATGM: Semi automatic command line of sight (SACLOS). The missile goes wherever the sight is pointing. Leading the target should not be necessary, but solely because of the high speed of the missile. There are no technical reasons preventing you from leading the target, it's just highly ineffective and inaccurate, and indeed shouldn't be necessary within normal engagement parameters.

 

 

This is incorrect. No laser energy whatsoever has to be projected on the target. You are confusing semi automatic laser homing with laser beam riding. Starstreak uses laser beamriding.

 

 

Fire and forget? Upgraded version yes, pre-upgrade no. The Automatic Target Tracking (ATT) can automatically track the image in the sight, On pre-upgrade models the operator must manually track the target until impact. So it depends on which version Gaijin has modeled.

 

 

As noted above, leading the target should not be necessary under normal engagement parameters, if modeled correctly.

Starstreaks guidance system works different to your usual beam riding missle though. The system fires 2 beams and paints a 2 dimensional matrix onto the target and the sub projectiles keep themselves within the middle of the matrix. So it shouldn't work like your typical atgm.

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28 minutes ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

Starstreaks guidance system works different to your usual beam riding missle though. The system fires 2 beams and paints a 2 dimensional matrix onto the target and the sub projectiles keep themselves within the middle of the matrix. So it shouldn't work like your typical atgm.

 

This is incorrect. The two beams do not "paint" the target. Any laser energy hitting the target or reflecting off it is entirely indifferent. The laser sensor is at the back of the dart and looks back at the laser emitter next to the sight.

 

In a typical wire-guided ATGM like BGM-71 TOW, Hot or Milan an infrared sensor on the sight measures the angular difference between an IR source (flare or lamp) on the missile and the line of sight, then the guidance electronics generates course corrections and sends them through the wire to the missile.

 

In Starsteak the sensor at the back measures the angular difference between the darts own central axis and the laser emitter next to the sight, then the guidance electronics inside the dart generates course corrections for the fins at the tip of the dart.

 

While the technology is different they work in exactly the same manner: Measure angular difference between line-of-sight and projectile and generate course corrections. The missile or dart goes wherever the sight is pointing. It works exactly like an ATGM: Stick a hollow charge warhead on the tip of the Starstreak dart and you got yourself a bog-standard ATGM.

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5 minutes ago, krise_madsen said:

 

This is incorrect. The two beams do not "paint" the target. Any laser energy hitting the target or reflecting off it is entirely indifferent. The laser sensor is at the back of the dart and looks back at the laser emitter next to the sight.

 

In a typical wire-guided ATGM like BGM-71 TOW, Hot or Milan an infrared sensor on the sight measures the angular difference between an IR source (flare or lamp) on the missile and the line of sight, then the guidance electronics generates course corrections and sends them through the wire to the missile.

 

In Starsteak the sensor at the back measures the angular difference between the darts own central axis and the laser emitter next to the sight, then the guidance electronics inside the dart generates course corrections for the fins at the tip of the dart.

 

While the technology is different they work in exactly the same manner: Measure angular difference between line-of-sight and projectile and generate course corrections. The missile or dart goes wherever the sight is pointing. It works exactly like an ATGM: Stick a hollow charge warhead on the tip of the Starstreak dart and you got yourself a bog-standard ATGM.

Yes I know the sensors in the dart look back at the sight. But as I said the 2 beams paint a 2 dimensional matrix on the target so the darts can figure where within the matrix they are and then steer themselves into the centre of it. This system allows the lasers beams to be larger than the target unlike your typical beam riding system. The centre of the matrix is locked onto the target by the tracking system. The centre of the matrix moves wherever the target goes within the matrix. Each dart individually move them selves constantly within the matrix keeping a 1.5m spread following the centre of the matrix. If you had no target and fired it then yes it would work like your standard atgm. If you have a target though the 2 lasers paint a grid matrix larger than the target over it this is where it differs from normal beam riding system. Yes the darts are constantly looking back but they freely move within the grid following the target. The target is always the centre even if it moves within the grid because of the tracking system. I guess I should of been clearer when I was saying it needs to be kept in the centre I was referring to in game with how sights work that centre of the sight needs to  e kept on the target. Your typical beam riding system would require you kept that single beam on the target at all times to make a successful hit. The starstreaks system on the other hand the tracking system always keeps the target within the matrix and and you might be thinking how do the projectiles now where the tracking system is keeping the target within the matrix the lasers modulate and the sensor in the back of projectiles move around that following the target within the grid.

 

Its 2am and I've probably repeated myself quite a few times in this post because I'm half asleep and I keep losing concentration. 

 

Tldr, unlike normal beam riding systems where they just follow the laser the starstreak system it moves itself within what's essentially a laser grid covering the whole target using the tracking system.

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5 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

We dont have immediate plans to create a unique sight for 1 machine in the game, but there are several things to this:

 

1) You can create / download custom sights

2) Feel free to make a suggestion in the correct section and we can always pass the idea on. 

Then why release something that is dependent on a specific aiming system? If it is released without further changes then it is an absolutely useless vehicle and an alternative should have been chosen.

 

 

At least the bug reports went through... for now

Edited by IStrykerI
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9 hours ago, IStrykerI said:

Then why release something that is dependent on a specific aiming system? If it is released without further changes then it is an absolutely useless vehicle and an alternative should have been chosen.

 

 

At least the bug reports went through... for now

Have they gone through? I cant find them

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15 hours ago, IStrykerI said:

Then why release something that is dependent on a specific aiming system? If it is released without further changes then it is an absolutely useless vehicle and an alternative should have been chosen.

 

 

At least the bug reports went through... for now

 

You would prefer we release nothing for Britain ?

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20 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

You would prefer we release nothing for Britain ?

 

With the current state of British Rank 6/7 ground and air compared to other nations you may as well of not bothered releasing anything.

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21 minutes ago, Mippie said:

 

With the current state of British Rank 6/7 ground and air compared to other nations you may as well of not bothered releasing anything.

That's hardly fair. They've made a noticble effort with the HMV, yes there are some mistakes but we can work on getting those corrected over time. Be happy that we have a missile system that is holey unique and that they have actually moddled the missile accurately. What would you rather, we got a tracked rapier? Which would be even less effective.

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1 hour ago, TerikG2014 said:

That's hardly fair. They've made a noticble effort with the HMV, yes there are some mistakes but we can work on getting those corrected over time. Be happy that we have a missile system that is holey unique and that they have actually moddled the missile accurately. What would you rather, we got a tracked rapier? Which would be even less effective.

 

The issue is that the "issues" that get raised take months and months and months to get fixed, and in the case of the challies not at all. We have the marksman which is all but useless due to some quite random radar issues (not locking or tracking). There are issues with the current Stormer in dev but things dont seem to be moving forward. So the reality is that we are going to get a missile system that whilst unique could potentially not be usable, considering the release goes live in a few days (I think)

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6 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

You would prefer we release nothing for Britain ?

Why my bug report about Starstreak penetration has been deleted from DEV 1.89 forum brunch? 

Edited by erilon03
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1 hour ago, erilon03 said:

Why my bug report about Starstreak penetration has been deleted from DEV 1.89 forum brunch? 

It might have been put into the compiled report.

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9 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

You would prefer we release nothing for Britain ?

@Smin1080p

 

Yes. If there is no use in something, why should it be released? It is just insulting us. Why should we waste our time trying to fix something that won't be implemented? It is less useful than a paper weight. At least a paper weight fulfills its sole purpose.

Edited by IStrykerI
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2 hours ago, erilon03 said:

Found the info that Starstreak should pen atleast 120mm

How did you get that? Last time I saw a number that big for starstreak was when someone forgot to take into account that it isn't a solid tungsten dart.

Edited by TerikG2014
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