CaptainBallistic

Germany is Currently Stomping Top-Tier, Solutions?

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Enough of the nonsense and toxicity in here...

 

If you want this Thread to continue.... then it will be on Topic and Civilized...

 

Report posts for any concerns and or bad behavior and we will step in and sort it out... and that may mean Warnings issued and time away for some... 

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As the title says, Germany is currently roflstomping at top-tiers, which honestly seems suprising given the fact that not too much has changed.

 

Among the issues that have become apparent are:

 

  • Leo2a5 has gotten similar invulnerability Dev to Live server.
  • XM-1 and Leopard1L/44 is still under-tiered quite massively.
  • Abrams tanks now don't really have any defense against both Leopard2a5 and even the T80u in some cases.
  • Leopard2a5 hordes have the strongest combination of firepower, protection, survivability and gun handling in the game

 

 

 

Though individually these might seem like minor things, together they've basically made German top-tier easy-mode right now,

I would not be suprised to find the Leo2a5's Thunderskill winrates to be in the mid/high '70s next month.

 

Also, for some reason these things have gotten ridiculously difficult to kill, lower glacis shots hardly deal lethal damage,

the turret cheeks are ofcourse immune and the mantlet is one of the smallest mantlet weakspots of the top-tier MBT's,

 

So, solutions?

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Funny you're having so much trouble against it considering the 2A5 is substiantially undermodelled atm.

 

But the only solution is to remove the frankenstein that is Gaijin's representation of the Leopard 2A5 and replace it with a properly modelled C-tech Leopard 2A4 instead.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

Funny you're having so much trouble against it considering the 2A5 is substiantially undermodelled atm.

 

But the only solution is to remove the frankenstein that is Gaijin's representation of the Leopard 2A5 and replace it with a properly modelled C-tech Leopard 2A4 instead.

 

 

funny that you like to imply stuff about me, the leo2a5 and T80u I already have, the M1A1 I didn't touch and given how much they are spanked right now, I'm not gonna touch it for a loooong time. in the first 3 hours yeah they were operating somewhat normally but now they might as well not exist :lol2:

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I've never killed a 2A5 yet..... I've gotten a crockpot the size of the Pacific filled with mixed battles though.... I HAAATE... ABSOLUTELY HATE mixed battles in my tank RB.... I havent touched the US since the patch dropped today, I've been having way too much fun with my baby XM-1 (the Type 87G Kai), the premium JASDF Sabre (which I found to be... very.... very underwhelming...) and my S26..... It has no problem knocking out leopard 2ks though, so I'm happy.... I kinda figured Germany would absolutely lolkrieg all over everyone else because of the hilarity that is the 2a5's cheeks of god.... I mean, I cant really think of a good way to "balance" the 2a5 out without gimping it or adding in more "modernized" versions of the current lineups... But even then, newer weapons and shells probably wouldnt crack that turret..... Just imagine if Germany made the Tiger II's turret like the 2a5....

Anyways, nothing short of ATGMs, hardcore sneaky flanks, or Russian HE could really do much damage....

Actually...... I'd say give the 2a5 roughly 3 weeks to a month to get a reasonable "overall stat" model, and if need be I'd say limit it to 2 or 3 max per game with how good the armor is... I mean it shouldnt be too much of an issue because there are so many people playing Germany and USSR, so you're gonna get quick and mixed games regardless.

Nice meme though. I gotta give you a plus 4 for the thread.

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2 minutes ago, MPRA2 said:

 

Nice meme though. I gotta give you a plus 4 for the thread.

Thank you, somebody had to do it :p:

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This is all good news... Maybe now the M1's can get a Repair deduction finally!!  Raise the Leo 2A5 to 15,000 SL and reduce  all M1s to 5,600 SL. Other than that I can wait until next major patch (1.89) 390,000 Rp grind isn't going anywhere soon!  Germans were never really favored much here in WT so I'd suspect better will come soon for other countries.

 

 Super funny and pathetic that players already have 2A5 bought and paid for with cash not even 24 hour after the patch and we have already OP mentioned (which I probably believe).  Everyone is afraid to lose:facepalm: Every patch there is some power creep omg :D   Who will have the power in 1.89?? France? Italy? Maybe the Japanese? Or will we wait because 1.89 will be Navel for Japan. Of all the tanks they pick 2A5 lol. I'll just camp at my spawn and wait for the Leo 2A5 teams of doom to roll across the maps and kill everything in sight. I'm not joining them though I can't afford 40$ tanks every week to be competitive playing WT. Tic tac toe is starting to sound fun again.

Edited by *Roger13R
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2 Leopard 2A5 + 1 T-64B = 3 dead Abrams/Challys + 2 damaged Challengers.

We did take A later after the Leopards decided to rush our spawn and got shot from behind. The 2A5 is simply invincible hull-down. I think HE-FRAG can kill it, but it is always teamed with RU.

 

2a5.png

Edited by Loongsheep
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8 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

2 Leopard 2A5 + 1 T-64B = 3 dead Abrams/Challys + 2 damaged Challengers.

We did take A later after the Leopards decided to rush our spawn and got shot from behind. The 2A5 is simply invincible hull-down. I think HE-FRAG can kill it, but it is always teamed with RU.

 

2a5.png

Well maybe Leo 2A5 needs a 25,000 SL repair cost than lol

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#GermanyCanFinallyCompete

#NowICanLOLPenAbrams

#Leo2A5 is underperforming

GG Germany

Oh forgot one

#MySuperiorityComplexIsSatisfied

 

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Time to drag the old M103 out of the hanger and start tossing big HE frags at them!!!

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The M1A1 HA and the T90A needs to be added considering the addition of the Leo 2a5, it's just not balanced when you take a look at a side by side comparison of the top tier tanks. We also need to fix compression as old 9.0 and 9.3 tanks cannot compete with these "new toys"; imagine being an MBT or T-64A driver and having to face this monstrosity.......

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They're really straining that "do not insult the devs" forum rule with this one.

 

You know what we need to do to balance against those pesky M1A1s?

Something from 10 years and 2 armor evolutions later with the same gun and engine.

 

"Zomg you can totally pen the hull and turret ring from medium range, it's balans"

(Please ignore that there is no place on Any Abrams that the DM33 can't sail right through and out the other side at 2k and beyond.)

 

 

And of course Panthera:

"It can be penetrated, it's undermodelled.

The Hull is SOOOOO much thicker than 400mm no way it's only 400mm against KE. Also!  Look at this 800mm turret ring shield I found in this picture!"

 

Tssss

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It is day TWO of the patch, how anyone can claim to suggest a nation is stomping right now with no actual evidence is beyond me. The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous already.

 

30 minutes ago, Livewyr7 said:

They're really straining that "do not insult the devs" forum rule with this one.

 

You know what we need to do to balance against those pesky M1A1s?

Something from 10 years and 2 armor evolutions later with the same gun and engine.

Leo2a4c would have been the better option in terms of date, but you do realise it would be the exact same case if that were added right? The hull armour would have been the same, and the turret would have exceeded 500mm easily. Either way abrams can't penetrate the turret cheeks, while leo2 would get dm33. 

Quote

"Zomg you can totally pen the hull and turret ring from medium range, it's balans"

(Please ignore that there is no place on Any Abrams that the DM33 can't sail right through and out the other side at 2k and beyond.)

It is possible to ohk the leo2a5 with a shot to the hull, either by hitting the ammo or the drivers position. It's not like you have to aim for particularly small weakspots.

Shooting the hull of an m1 rarely yields more than a driver kill meanwhile. 

 

 

Seriously, it's hilarious how in the other thread that this one was named after regarding US tanks (which actually were performing too well with 70% w/l) there were people pointing out how "germany is full of crybabies", "how come no one complains when germany is on top".

Now we have countless threads of US whiners with absolutely zero evidence that germany is even performing better on day two of a patch. M1a1 still gets the better internal layout over leo2a5, US still has the best CAS and the best backups. The sole advantage of leo2a5 is its turret cheeks. It's not that big of a deal, and if you struggle to deal with it when you can penetrate the entire hull and weakspots on the turret then it's simply l2p.

Yes leo2a5 (along with other rank 7s) are all undertiered at 10.0, but they should move up soon. 

Edited by Dantheman66
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19 minutes ago, Dantheman66 said:

It is day TWO of the patch, how anyone can claim to suggest a nation is stomping right now with no actual evidence is beyond me. The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous already.

 

Leo2a4c would have been the better option in terms of date, but you do realise it would be the exact same case if that were added right? The hull armour would have been the same, and the turret would have exceeded 500mm easily. Either way abrams can't penetrate the turret cheeks, while leo2 would get dm33. 

It is possible to ohk the leo2a5 with a shot to the hull, either by hitting the ammo or the drivers position. It's not like you have to aim for particularly small weakspots.

Shooting the hull of an m1 rarely yields more than a driver kill meanwhile. 

 

 

Seriously, it's hilarious how in the other thread that this one was named after regarding US tanks (which actually were performing too well with 70% w/l) there were people pointing out how "germany is full of crybabies", "how come no one complains when germany is on top".

Now we have countless threads of US whiners with absolutely zero evidence that germany is even performing better on day two of a patch. M1a1 still gets the better internal layout over leo2a5, US still has the best CAS and the best backups. The sole advantage of leo2a5 is its turret cheeks. It's not that big of a deal, and if you struggle to deal with it when you can penetrate the entire hull and weakspots on the turret then it's simply l2p.

Yes leo2a5 (along with other rank 7s) are all undertiered at 10.0, but they should move up soon. 

I honestly just find the comments by some players on the forums, on reddit and on YouTube videos about the Leo 2A5 hilarious. You would be laughing too when you see people claim that the 2nd Dev Server iteration of the Leo 2A5 was accurate or that this version is underperforming. 

 

Hell even that post somenoe created asking for the Leo 2A6 or 2A7 when the CR2 was announced made me laugh IRL. 

Edited by USVIKILLER
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I think all of it if is humorous. Funny players open there wallets up wide day 1 to buy all the goodies. I can understand players displeasure meant. Not fair current MBT 9.0 and up have to fight these monstrosities. Makes grinding more difficult.  All should wait though for results (as said by Dantgeman66). But just buy looking at the armour and hearing 2A5 is virtually impenetrable hull down already says a lot. But this Leo does not need to stay hull down to be competitive. We know its the USA syndrome all over again just with out having 3 identical back ups and proper CAS. It's only a matter of time. 

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After looking at all the values of each tank and having a crap ton of battles ( nearly 12k) under my belt most being top tier. I feel I have a very strong and unbiased exp . So looking at them all I grinded the Leo a5 out yesterday ( I save mods and power grind ) . I'm already knocking on the door of a 80% win rate and climbing . Better then I did in my Abrams lines . A good bit of battles I'm lucky to even get a kill in if it's a Leo a5 team . I one pop shot just about every Abrams I see easily if not, he is demobilized to no threat ( I pen anywhere center mass or turret cheeks with ease ). The only teams I had loses to were mixed or full on Russian t80s . The Abrams are easy to deal with in the Leo a5 , pimple popping takes more effort presently .  I'm gonna enjoy seeing how high of a win rate I can get in this unchallenged machine ;) 

Edited by Bad_MoFo
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1 hour ago, USVIKILLER said:

I honestly just find the comments by some players on the forums, on reddit and on YouTube videos about the Leo 2A5 hilarious. You would be laughing too when you see people claim that the 2nd Dev Server iteration of the Leo 2A5 was accurate or that this version is underperforming. 

 

Hell even that post somenoe created asking for the Leo 2A6 or 2A7 when the CR2 was announced made me laugh IRL. 

I've seen all of that and I do find it annoying when it was obvious that it was bugged. If it wasn't for that dev server as well as several youtubers hyping up the stats of leo2a5 maybe there would be somehwat less hysteria surrounding the tank right now. In actuality it holds no real advantage compared to what leo2a4c would have offered had it been added instead. 

 

20 minutes ago, Bad_MoFo said:

After looking at all the values of each tank and having a crap ton of battles ( nearly 12k) under my belt most being top tier. I feel I have a very strong and unbiased exp . So looking at them all I grinded the Leo a5 out yesterday ( I save mods and power grind ) . I'm already knocking on the door of a 80% win rate and climbing . Better then I did in my Abrams lines . A good bit of battles I'm lucky to even get a kill in if it's a Leo a5 team . I one pop shot just about every Abrams I see easily if not, he is demobilized to no threat ( I pen anywhere center mass or turret cheeks with ease ). The only teams I had loses to were mixed or full on Russian t80s . The Abrams are easy to deal with in the Leo a5 , pimple popping takes more effort presently .  I'm gonna enjoy seeing how high of a win rate I can get in this unchallenged machine ;) 

How many m1a1s/cr2s/t-80us are you seeing?

I have a suspicion that leo2a5 woudl draw the most attention from people wanting to wallet warrior a new tank, so it might simply be that too many people have paid for a leo2a5 while not enough have unlocked m1a1/t-80u yet to counter it. If you're facing mainly m1/ip then it's no real opposition to leo2a5 currently. 

Edited by Dantheman66
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The whole thing is such a screw up.

 

Its times like these that I really resent repair and ammo costs.  The game is often at it's most imbalanced right after a patch  ut it still costs the same to be killed by a vehicle introduced 1 BR lower than it should have been.

 

And I dont think that we'd even have the 2A5 if the USA hadn't been given stupidly OP helicopters months ago.  Instead of fixing the ranges of the missiles or making sure they could be countered, they buffed the damage they could take, reduced rewards for assisting killing them and had them spawn more easily.  All while keeping them essentially invincible to groundfire.

 

I'm one of the folk that think that the 10.0 tanks are actually quite balanced.  Not perfectly in sync, of course but balanced enough that if CAS didn't exist and back ups had to be earned like they used to, one team wouldn't be miles in front of the others.  But the USA had two top tanks and CAS which boosted their win rate to the point of ruining top tier.

 

All this did was foster this resentment against the USA. Their Abrams would take multiple shots of expensive ammo to kill and their CAS would ruin games that otherwise might have been competitive. So instead of the next tank in the line for Germany, we skip that and get something that other teams can't compete with. And they've been added at the same BR as existing vehicles.

 

The game is getting away from gaijin. 

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1520207881_straightupbadtimememe.png.dca

An appropriate meme for this situation. Also works for Chieftan mk X, MBT 70, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Matt_82 said:

 

All this did was foster this resentment against the USA. Their Abrams would take multiple shots of expensive ammo to kill and their CAS would ruin games that otherwise might have been competitive. So instead of the next tank in the line for Germany, we skip that and get something that other teams can't compete with. And they've been added at the same BR as existing vehicles.

 

The "next tank in the line" was leo2a4c, which would have the exact same hull as leo2a5, and 500 mm  KE turret armour. It would also have dm33.


The situation would therefore have been exactly the same - its turret cheeks are non-pen but the hull is penetrable. Really it doesn't matter that they added leo2a5 instead of it. 

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8 hours ago, *Roger13R said:

Well maybe Leo 2A5 needs a 25,000 SL repair cost than lol

Lol let me see if I can hit my +80% or more win rate in it first for a month before that's suggested  my friend lol 

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27 minutes ago, Bad_MoFo said:

I one pop shot just about every Abrams I see easily

i call bs on that one, since the post pen effect on the dm33 has been dogs**t tier from the start, a bit like the dm23 has been for months now.

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11 minutes ago, Dantheman66 said:

I've seen all of that and I do find it annoying when it was obvious that it was bugged. If it wasn't for that dev server as well as several youtubers hyping up the stats of leo2a5 maybe there would be somehwat less hysteria surrounding the tank right now. In actuality it holds no real advantage compared to what leo2a4c would have offered had it been added instead. 

 

How many m1a1s/cr2s/t-80us are you seeing?

I have a suspicion that leo2a5 woudl draw the most attention from people wanting to wallet warrior a new tank, so it might simply be that too many people have paid for a leo2a5 while not enough have unlocked m1a1/t-80u yet to counter it. If you're facing mainly m1/ip then it's no real opposition to leo2a5 currently. 

Honestly just as many Leo a5s as I'm seeing . The ipm1 and m1a1 don't matter as for one the ipm1 armor is better and two they both (well all 3 Abrams ) are only able to pen the same spots regardless of 829 or 774 / 735 

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