Jump to content

Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire (Premium or Event tank)


Would you like to see the "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 in the game?  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 in the game as a Premium tank or as the prize of a specific Event?

    • Premium tank
      64
    • Prize of a specific Event
      33
    • No. I do not want this tank to be implemented in the game
      7


Historical background
Between 1944 and 1945, FFI fighters (Forces Françaises de l'Intérieur, the reunion of the main Résistance groups) captured 59 Panther Ausf. A & G. After the end of WW2, the French Army temporarily equipped some tank units with the surviving "stolen" Panthers. 49 tanks were rehabilitated and used by various units or for experiments. In particular, the 503e RCC (see the photo below) was partially equipped with Panther Ausf. A & G. The lack of spare parts and their obsolescence led to the abandonment of these tanks in the early '50s, the 503e RCC receiving their ARL-44 in 1951 and their American M47 in 1953.

 

image.png.c7d1b4bef722d7a5753c056c41fea9

Above: Panthers A & G of the 503e RCC after the war.
 

image.png.e6c7dcfd37d4420f695f5530a49fe1

Above: 2 Panthers captured by the FFI in Dompaire and carrying the insignias of the France Libre (Free France). On September 12-13, 1944, after a fierce battle, the 2nd Division Blindée (2nd DB; attached to the US 3rd Army) assisted by 4 raids of Thunderbolts of the US Air Force destroyed more than half of the 120 Panthers and Pz. IV of the 112th Panzerbrigade. Several Panthers abandoned by their crews were ultimately captured by the FFI, including the Panther Ausf. G #332 that I propose to add as a Premium or an Event tank in the French tech tree (see below). See many more photographs and historical notes (some used in this post) on www.chars-francais.net, the best reference on French tanks on the Web.

 

 

The "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332
This Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire (see the historical notes above and the photos below) was displayed until 1975 at the Esplanade des Invalides in Paris. Recently restored (see also this link), it is now displayed at the Muséum des Blindés de Saumur in its original colors after its capture.

image.png.04f64a6c5565e68a362457a7d4d001

Above: the Panther Ausf. G #332 of the 112th Panzerbrigade just after its capture in Dompaire and before receiving the insignias of the France Libre (Free France).

 

image.png.bc2300ee8afacae6a58132f0e70f93

Above: The "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 displayed until 1975 at the Esplanades des Invalides in Paris.

 

Below: 3 photographs of the "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 restored in its original state after its capture by the FFI, and now displayed in Saumur.

image.png.e42199beb1bb2b49086c6fcb49a851

image.png.6f2ea527fce5fd680b8e4469b297e2

image.png.bed150a7473c3858711784069985eb

 

Suggestion
Add the Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire as a Premium or Event tank to the French tech tree (like the Event T-V/T-5 in the Russian tech tree). In addition of filling a gap in the line of French Premium tanks (between the M4A1 (FL10) at BR 4.7 and the AMX-13 (SS11) at BR 6.7), this tank would also be valuable at the popular BR range 5.7-6.0 where there are currently only 2 tanks in the French tech tree (the ARL-44, the natural companion of a "French Panther", and the AMX-13).

Edited by No_Camping
  • Like 3
  • Confused 3
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 17
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Open for discussion. :salute:

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as a like the Panther, and as legitimate this is (since our boys litteraly used these kitties longer than Germany I believe) I have to say "Please no". We already have Shermans in every trees, I don't want the Panther to be the next one (USSR have one already as you mentioned, the UK can get Cuckoo, pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to find one for the U.S...). Now, I get that it's not a problem in Arcade, and neither in RB (you can see that I have a fair amount of match in my T-V in RB, I mean I had it for free so might as well use it) but in Sim ground there is already enough "accident" due too lend-lease/captured tanks, no need to add another one. It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part. 

  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 3
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Lycos_Luppin said:

but in Sim ground there is already enough "accident" due too lend-lease/captured tanks, no need to add another one. It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part.  

This is not the problem of "stolen" tanks. Gaijin could simply not put stolen tanks in the list of allowed tanks in any given simulator battle events. This could actually be a valid suggestion to post in the forum...

7 minutes ago, Lycos_Luppin said:

It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part. 

Oh man, come on. Look at this tank again. It has history and plenty of "flavor" for it!  :wub:

Edited by No_Camping
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, No_Camping said:

This is not the problem of "stolen" tanks. Gaijin could simply not put stolen tanks in the list of allowed tanks in any given simulator battle events. This could actually be a valid suggestion to post in the forum...

 

That's how it was originally. Well in the case of the T-V it was, I can't remember if it also was the case for every captured tanks... I wish they would revert that change to be honest.

 

11 minutes ago, No_Camping said:

Oh man, come on. Look at this tank again. It has history and plenty of "flavor" for it!  :wub:

It has a cool story, I give you that. But beside that it's just a regular panther with a fancy camo. If it had been actually modified by french forces like the German KV with a long 75, or the russian P-40 with a Klimov instead of the Allison engine (Actually, I don't know if this one is modelled as such in game? ) I'll be all for it. You said some of these Panthers where used as testbeds, any of them with a particular feature that would make it truly unique on a gameplay point of view (and without going all Sci-Fi of course, trying to please all sides here lol)

  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 

I hav no qualms on historical foreign vehicle use. It would certainly help fill the French tech tree.

  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 08/03/2019 at 10:13, onemax9000 said:

1 here there this video talks about the French panther tanks.

You actually see one of the photographs of the Dompaire Panther G (and A) I posted, although the video does not mention the story.

  • Like 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

I'm surprised France doesn't have any captured tank available, I think every other country does, I would like to see this 1+

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

The French Panther's name is indeed "Dauphiné" (a French region; most French tanks are named after cities/regions), not "Dauphine" ("heiress" in French)
The mix-up by Gaijin is that the name is written on the tank in non-accentuated capital letters (although there may be an accent on the final "E" in the picture below). It is usual in French not to put accents on capital letters.

I still think that the Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire would have been a better choice for a Premium Panther in the French tree: better looking (see above) and with a well referenced and nice history from its capture to its display in the Jardin des Tuileries and now, in Saumur.

 

The first photograph is right after the capture of the Panther G "Dauphiné" in 1943 (before getting its French insignia an losing the German ones). The soldier with the binoculars is Captain Besnier, head of the squadron which also incorporated the Tiger I "Bretagne" (which you can guess on the left of the 4th photograph, and which is shown on the 5th)
panther20g2013.png
04112009_001-14f28fe.png

panther20g2009.png

panther20g2007.png

tiger_01.png

 

 

Edited by No_Camping
  • Like 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The name of the French Panther G on the dev server is currently "Dauphine" ("heiress" in French), whereas it should be "Dauphiné" (a French region; city and region names are used to name most of French tanks, still today)
 

I found an historical notice by Michel Gautier (many new photographs in this document), following the death of Pierre Jarno in 2017 who served as the gunner on the Panther G "Dauphiné". Michel Gautier became a friend of Pierre Jarno and published "Poche de Saint-Nazaire – Neuf mois d’une guerre oubliée" (Geste Editions, 2017; The stronghold of Saint-Nazaire - 9 months of a forgotten war" - see Amazon link), relating the combat operations of the escadron Besnier. This book is based on extensive interviews of Pierre Jarno and his family and friends, among many others.

The excerpts from his book selected by the author himself to honor Pierre Jarno clearly mention Besnier and Jarno's Panther G as the "Dauphiné", named after a French province/region (see below), like all the German tanks of the Besnier squadron. I guess the gunner of the Panther G "Dauphiné" knew the name of his tank and that this book should hence be considered as an official and bullet-proof source!

 

Here are 2 excerpts from the book taken from the document I provide above (with their lose English translations) proving that the name of the Panther was indeed "Dauphiné", and not "Dauphine":
C’est à la mi-mars 1945 que Pierre Jarno devenu tankiste, accompagné de son chef Besnier, aurait le plaisir de passer aux travaux pratiques : grâce à la lunette de visée très perfectionnée de son Panther « Dauphiné », il pulvérisa de quelques obus de 75 bien ajustés un observatoire allemand...

It was in mid-March 1945 that Pierre Jarno, who had become a tanker, accompanied by his leader Besnier, would have the pleasure to do some practical work: thanks to the very sophisticated aiming scope of his Panther "Dauphiné", he fired a few well-aimed 75mm shells and destroyed a German observation post...


Ces chars d’origine allemande arborant les trois couleurs et la croix de Lorraine étaient baptisés de noms de provinces françaises, ce qui ajoutait bien sûr à l’amertume de l’ennemi.

These tanks [of the Besnier squadron] of German origin sporting the three [French] colors and the cross of Lorraine were baptized with names of French provinces/regions, which added of course to the bitterness of the enemy. [Well, I am not so sure o_o]

 

Diapo.jpg

 

All document available on this safe Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2klv6maceagqwxw/AACjrnkikVP59Fwem_6JL8rJa?dl=0

 

Bug report on the dev server (link will be ultimately closed)

 

Edited by No_Camping
  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been reported folks.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...