Stona

Server Update 11.02.2019

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Regarding the removed. Ha-Go, FCM 36 and H.35. We will have some news to share on them in the future as well as the possibility of their return / obtainment. 

 

The developers are currently hard at work on the current change and we will have further updates and news to share in the near future. 

 

Thank you all for your continued feedback. We are still reviewing and passing daily :salute:

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modifications_edfd1742edb2a34829afb14153

  • The new calculation of armour penetration in the game for armour-piercing shells has been added.
  • The armour penetration values for non-normal hitting angles (slope effect values)  have been changed for shells of types AP/APCBC/APBC.
  • Armour penetration values for shells of type APFSDS (for shells for which preliminary changes have been published previously) has been recalculated by using the Lance-Odermatt formula.
  • The following changes for ground vehicle research trees have been made:
    • France:
      • H35, FCM36 — Have been deleted from the main research tree (vehicles remain for players who already have it).
      • H39 — Has been moved to the “reserve” vehicles.
    • Japan:
      • Ha-Go — Has been deleted from the main research tree (vehicle remains for players who already have it).
      • Ke-Ni — Has been moved to the “reserve” vehicles.
      • I-Go Ko, Chi-Ha — 57 mm HEAT  shell is now available by default.
      • Type 95 — 70 mm Type 3 HEAT shell has been added.
    • USA:
      • M22 — has been moved to the 1st rank and is placed now after LVT(A)(1).
      • M3 Lee — has been moved to the 2nd rank.
      • M8 HMC — has been moved to the 2nd rank.

The current provided changelog reflects the major changes within the game as part of this Update. Some updates, additions and fixes may not be listed in the provided notes. War Thunder is constantly improving and specific fixes may be implemented without the client being updated.

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Can you please advise what is the designated target BHN used in calculation? 

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1 hour ago, Stona said:
  • The new calculation of armour penetration in the game for armour-piercing shells has been added.
  • The armour penetration values for non-normal hitting angles (slope effect values)  have been changed for shells of types AP/APCBC/APBC.
  • Armour penetration values for shells of type APFSDS (for shells for which preliminary changes have been published previously) has been recalculated by using the Lance-Odermatt formula.

So what shells were affected? And how were they affected? I recall the ASU-57 missing penetration on its stock shell (seems that the Lorraine 40T did too) did these shells change?

Stona (Posted )

Please re-read linked article.
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Why did you remove the H.35, FCM.36, and Ha-Go?

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3 minutes ago, SuperProtoMan said:

Why did you remove the H.35, FCM.36, and Ha-Go?

Long story short: Due to changes provided with latest calculation system, guns used in removed vehicles were too obsolete to provide any real firepower (old, pre-WW2 guns). In the future we will implement new low level vehicle.

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You guys should adjust BRs and ammo cost fast... Some tanks are unplayable now and some ammo is just overpriced right now.

Edited by Merlin1809
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2 minutes ago, Merlin1809 said:

You guys should adjust BRs and ammo cost fast... Some tanks are unplayable now and some ammo is just overpriced right now.

 

First we need to check how the specific vehicles perform on battlefield after this changes.

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1 minute ago, Stona said:

 

First we need to check how the specific vehicles perform on battlefield after this changes.

So whats being done about the M774 and M735 for the M1, they are nearly identical rounds thanks to this change, and with how your armour system works (angled pen means very little) so the M1 got a huge nerf thanks to this change. are we getting M735 removed and M774 as stock because I think its a joke your keeping both these shells in when there virtually identical now

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21 minutes ago, Stona said:

Long story short: Due to changes provided with latest calculation system, guns used in removed vehicles were too obsolete to provide any real firepower (old, pre-WW2 guns). In the future we will implement new low level vehicle.

Err...by this argument, there would be several more vehicles that have too weak firepower...hell...M2A2 has only ONE MACHINEGUN...

(Unless...the MG is actually better than the guns on the deleted vehicles...not impossible, actually)

 

I actually managed to unlock some cammos on HaGo...never brilliant...but pre-changes the gun was not the worst in game...early Italian tanks (L6, L3) seem much worse...no?

 

I actually have the deleted vehicles...just curious on how the decision was based...

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The Ha-Go was the most produced and iconic Japanese tank of WW2. Why remove it when you can use actual historical documentation for its ammunition or update its gun to the Type 98 with Type 1 ammunition? You are removing the face of the Japanese armored forces.

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10 minutes ago, Stona said:

Long story short: Due to changes provided with latest calculation system, guns used in removed vehicles were too obsolete to provide any real firepower (old, pre-WW2 guns). In the future we will implement new low level vehicle.

So instead of keeping the values given by documents which kept the penetration values useable and historical you just deleted some tank from the game? And you wonder why people are angry at how gaijin has been rushing out updates.

 

Some examples of the utter folly of this change.

L23A1: where do I even start? The lanz odermatt formula was part of what was used to fix this shell in the first place and now you've recalculated with the incorrect striking velocity and density after all the information we threw at you to fix it? Lets not forget that L23 is unchanged so it now has more flat pen despite being exactly the same except for being less dense. Outstanding "standardisation" there.

 

Tiger II 105: 175mm pen for the stock shell at 7.0? My god this is going to be suffering.

 

DM23: Use of a formula for unsegmented monobloc penetrators on a segmented monobloc penetrator. Astounding work...

 

This chsnge represents everything the community has been getting angry about in the past year or so. These formulae are incredibly general and are no substitute foe historical documents as they rarely provide truly accurate values. Yet instead of resorting to these formulae as a backup when no documents on something can be found you used it as your new gospel. It simply looks like you've dropped more historical accuracy for speed of new content being produced and that's a very "other game" thing to do.

 

(Oh and these guns certainly aren't historically accurate anymore so you may want to take that out your advertising...)

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26 minutes ago, Stona said:

 

First we need to check how the specific vehicles perform on battlefield after this changes.

Is there a table of changes somewhere? If not...can we get one?

 

By the way...is wiki automatically updated also?

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M8 HMC — has been moved to the 2nd rank.

Why move it to rank to? And why not move the M8A1 to Rank 2 as well?

 

And in the Future. Give people some heads up in advance that a vehicle will be removed. So they can get it before you remove it.

Why? Mainly for those of us that want to collect as many vehicles that we can. Even if they are crap :)

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Is there any chance that the removed vehicles will be returned in the future? Perhaps with an ammunition update?

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Seriously... This ain't going anywhere. Sure tanks are buffed but some upgraded shells are kinda pointless after this change.

Namely: Russian shells and Japanese APHE (37mm ones, Type 4 Kou).

Would you do some sort of soft balance for "hardened material" shells by simply changing it into APBC/APCBC shells? That being said, for example, Type 4 Kou can be switched to "APCBC" type of shell to represent its hardened material.


Would you do this kind of soft-balance?

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@Stona large caliber HE shell like kv2 and obj 268 and obj 120 don't knock out gun barrel now if u hit in the hull or in the gun itself ! is this a bug or change ?

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34 minutes ago, Stona said:

Long story short: Due to changes provided with latest calculation system, guns used in removed vehicles were too obsolete to provide any real firepower (old, pre-WW2 guns). In the future we will implement new low level vehicle.

I am looking forward to these new vehicles.  Though I will miss the tanks that are now gone.  They had character.

 

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yea unified pen system would be good but with ur calculator thats not going to work as u generalize every shell even if they are different like flat russian APCB to sharp US APCB etc. there are many more examples and with that what the calculator dosnt work 

to summarize i am 100% against the new system

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What's the point of this? Lot of tanks are now totally useless with stock shells, also why the Lorraine got 266mm instead of 290 like the calculator says?

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23 minutes ago, JG3_Luftwaffle said:

So instead of keeping the values given by documents which kept the penetration values useable and historical you just deleted some tank from the game? And you wonder why people are angry at how gaijin has been rushing out updates.

 

Some examples of the utter folly of this change.

L23A1: where do I even start? The lanz odermatt formula was part of what was used to fix this shell in the first place and now you've recalculated with the incorrect striking velocity and density after all the information we threw at you to fix it? Lets not forget that L23 is unchanged so it now has more flat pen despite being exactly the same except for being less dense. Outstanding "standardisation" there.

 

Tiger II 105: 175mm pen for the stock shell at 7.0? My god this is going to be suffering.

 

DM23: Use of a formula for unsegmented monobloc penetrators on a segmented monobloc penetrator. Astounding work...

 

This chsnge represents everything the community has been getting angry about in the past year or so. These formulae are incredibly general and are no substitute foe historical documents as they rarely provide truly accurate values. Yet instead of resorting to these formulae as a backup when no documents on something can be found you used it as your new gospel. It simply looks like you've dropped more historical accuracy for speed of new content being produced and that's a very "other game" thing to do.

 

(Oh and these guns certainly aren't historically accurate anymore so you may want to take that out your advertising...)

 

Feel free to discuss it here 

We just IMPLEMENTED the system, now it needs some time to be adjusted with BRs etc.

 

 

22 minutes ago, *GhostSoph said:

Is there a table of changes somewhere? If not...can we get one?

 

By the way...is wiki automatically updated also?

 

Table of what changes?

Wiki is made by humans, not AI ;)

 

20 minutes ago, selpulcher said:

Is there any chance that the removed vehicles will be returned in the future? Perhaps with an ammunition update?

 

We never says never (except few exceptions :D )

 

13 minutes ago, Owner203 said:

What's the point of this? Lot of tanks are now totally useless with stock shells, also why the Lorraine got 266mm instead of 290 like the calculator says?

 

I linked thread where you can discuss it. There is really no point of copy-paste discussion here.

35 minutes ago, *GhostSoph said:

 

I actually managed to unlock some cammos on HaGo...never brilliant...but pre-changes the gun was not the worst in game...early Italian tanks (L6, L3) seem much worse...no?

 

 

You still have the vehicles. If you manage to unlock them and buy, we will not remove them from your account. 

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8 minutes ago, Stona said:

Table of what changes?

Wiki is made by humans, not AI ;)

Which rounds PENETRATION, were changed and to what...? Particularly those that had MAJOR improvements or reductions...

For instance...someone said on the other topic, 17pdr got major improvement...that will be a surprise for some tankers that were used to it being ineffective against their tanks...etc...

 

Well...someone should send a memo to wiki "humans"...seems lots of info just got obsolete there... ;)

Edited by *GhostSoph
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33 minutes ago, Wolf_89 said:

M8 HMC — has been moved to the 2nd rank.

Why move it to rank to? And why not move the M8A1 to Rank 2 as well?

 

And in the Future. Give people some heads up in advance that a vehicle will be removed. So they can get it before you remove it.

Why? Mainly for those of us that want to collect as many vehicles that we can. Even if they are crap :)

 

Reserve tanks of all nations are automatically given to everyone upon first login to the game. So unless you created your War Thunder account just today after the update, you own the now hidden ones already anyway. 

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3 minutes ago, *GhostSoph said:

Which rounds PENETRATION, were changed and to what...? Particularly those that had MAJOR improvements or reductions...

For instance...someone said on the other topic, 17pdr got major improvement...that will be a surprise for some tankers that were used to it being ineffective against their tanks...etc...

 

Well...someone should send a memo to wiki "humans"...seems lots of info just got obsolete there... ;)

 

You have calculator, so you can check it by yourself. Link is in the changenotes.

 

Wiki team is aware of changes :)

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4 minutes ago, gromvoiny said:

 

Reserve tanks of all nations are automatically given to everyone upon first login to the game. So unless you created your War Thunder account just today after the update, you own the now hidden ones already anyway. 

True :) Forgot that :)

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