WolFie90

USA 8.0 - 10.0 is not OP by far

1 minute ago, _16_BIT_ said:

Hi guys, how can I play Abrams so that my winning percentage is <70%?

 

Less than 70%? No idea tbh

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10 minutes ago, *RAazzy91 said:

Less than 70%? No idea tbh

 

Making the mistake of moving out of a good defensive position and into an open field, right into the line of sight of perhaps several enemies.

 

 

Oh wait.... even that doesn't work.

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6 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Making the mistake of moving out of a good defensive position and into an open field, right into the line of sight of perhaps several enemies.

 

 

Oh wait.... even that doesn't work.

I beg to differ, it would have worked great but that T-64 had go an ruin it by aiming terribly ^^

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1 hour ago, Adama222 said:

Why people answer this kind of posts ? That’s a troll, move out.

Its not a troll post, its a public service announcement post ;)

Edited by Help_Bot_2000
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2 hours ago, Help_Bot_2000 said:

I beg to differ, it would have worked great but that T-64 had go an ruin it by aiming terribly ^^

Exactly.

With decent aiming any 9.3+ MBT could have done the same as the M1.

 

Note the first round could have killed the Abrams just like any other MBT if it hit 0.3 second earlier into the crew compartment. It landed too late and into engine, any tank can survive that including T-34.

9 hours ago, _16_BIT_ said:

Hi guys, how can I play Abrams so that my winning percentage is <70%?
I want a satellite gun from C & C. and a 90% chance of winning.

Time travel back when M1 Abrams was first released and spade the Abrams with GE.

If you start today you are lucky to get over 60% win with Abrams.

Edited by Loongsheep
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38 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

Exactly.

With decent aiming any 9.3+ MBT could have done the same as the M1.

Yep I do that all the time in the 9.3+ MBT range with decent aim, Nature of a gun duel.

38 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

Note the first round could have killed the Abrams just like any other MBT if it hit 0.3 second earlier into the crew compartment. It landed too late and into engine, any tank can survive that including T-34.

Indeed, it'll stop the tank from moving but it won't stop it from shooting back at you, your right any tank can and will survive that type of hit regardless what it is, that's why I'd quickly follow up with a second shot to the crew compartment but as we can see here the T-64's aim was off on the second shot and they missed that chance to save them self. They might had a third chance but they had too much of the T-64's side armor exposed and that's exactly what the Abrams went for. Even then if the Abrams had somehow survived that first hit to the crew compartment it most likely would be done for anyways as it would be be too crippled to fire back or drive away so a free kill.

Edited by Help_Bot_2000
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7 hours ago, Help_Bot_2000 said:

I beg to differ, it would have worked great but that T-64 had go an ruin it by aiming terribly ^^

5 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

With decent aiming any 9.3+ MBT could have done the same as the M1.

 

I'm not saying he didn't aim poorly, however, the difference is that playing the M1 allows you to make these silly mistakes without getting punished for them to the same degree that other nations' get punished, it's the only top-tier tank that's this forgiving when you play it.

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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7 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

I'm not saying he didn't aim poorly, however, the difference is that playing the M1 allows you to make these silly mistakes without getting punished for them to the same degree that other nations' get punished, it's the only top-tier tank that's this forgiving when you play it.

 

But your video doesn't help to proof this, because any other tank could survive a side hit to the engine.

If you are trying to convince people about this, post a video that show ammo rack hatch popping, surviving helicopter ATGM or when people fail to kill you through LFP shots multiple times.

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10 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

But your video doesn't help to proof this, because any other tank could survive a side hit to the engine.

 

It wasn't meant to ''prove'' anything, just a post with a rather funny encounter.

 

Quote

If you are trying to convince people about this,

 

post a video that show ammo rack hatch popping,

surviving helicopter ATGM

or when people fail to kill you through LFP shots multiple times.

 

As you wish.

 

Ammo rack

Spoiler

 

 

ATGM (not the best example, has to dig through some of my recordings from 2 days ago to find an example)

Spoiler

 

 

Lower glacis

Spoiler

 

 

Some bonus ones:

 

Survivability due to near limitless smoke options:

Spoiler

 

 

Oh, and the ammo racks just turning black.

Spoiler

ezgif-2-8d92a54aab2e.gif.4d1e8ae656a54bc

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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18 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

No nation has been an actual threat, perhaps if matchmaking did a better job at combining the different nations to face off against the US specifically it would've worked better, but right now we're stuck with matchmaking that somehow allows the Type 90's to support the US M1's in what is the golden combination for 50% of the time.

Mate, what? 

 

Over half my games in US at top tier are matched as US vs. The World right now.

 

God forbid another nation besides the one or two brits side with US a match or two...

 

And if you want to get political about it, pitting the Type 90's against the Abrams alongside the Russians and Germans and French and Italians sounds more like a "golden combinations" for their team; not the US.

15 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Making the mistake of moving out of a good defensive position and into an open field, right into the line of sight of perhaps several enemies.

 

 

Oh wait.... even that doesn't work.

It's the T-64's fault for both aiming badly and exposing his side to you when he clearly knew your position.

Edited by ANDROMADA
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6 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

Ammo rack

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Oof AND you frontally pen a T-80B, I wonder how people are going to move the goalposts and justify how the Abrams is underpowered now.

Edited by TheCheshireCat
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15 hours ago, Adama222 said:

Why people answer this kind of posts ? That’s a troll, move out.


Stating an opinion, if it is not same as yours, is trolling?

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9 hours ago, WolFie90 said:


Stating an opinion, if it is not same as yours, is trolling?

Yeah make you the victim, it’s obvious that USA is stomping right now with a win rate of 70% but theres always guys like you who say « nah it’s fine, let me club some more, ho and gib muh m833 round USA suffer » go play a solo game on easy if you want this kind of fun

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2 hours ago, Adama222 said:

Yeah make you the victim, it’s obvious that USA is stomping right now with a win rate of 70% but theres always guys like you who say « nah it’s fine, let me club some more,

Except it isn't. Thunderskill is no longer working since last Oct so I have asked my friends to post their own win rates since the beginning of this year.

None have them have the Abrams with 70%+ win rate. They are all between 58 and 65% so far and dropping.

 

USA definitely isn't a "victim" and remains the best team at top tier, but the difference isn't as great as people make it seem like. Back in the day both Leopard 1 and IT-1 had solid 70%+ win rate on Thunderskill.

 

Quote

ho and gib muh m833 round USA suffer » go play a solo game on easy if you want this kind of fun

The M774 got nerfed really hard and maybe it is time for M833, It will also get nerfed hard by the same formula, probably with similar performance to DM23.

Also give Germany the DM33 and UK the L26. Won't change much in gameplay, but the whining should die down a bit.

Edited by Loongsheep
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2 hours ago, Adama222 said:

Yeah make you the victim, it’s obvious that USA is stomping right now with a win rate of 70% but theres always guys like you who say « nah it’s fine, let me club some more, ho and gib muh m833 round USA suffer » go play a solo game on easy if you want this kind of fun


Are you for real ?

Here's an idea.
Please record 20 of your matches with abrams. If you get 14+ wins, your statement is true. If you get 50%ish, it's shame on you, If you get less than 50%, you will apologize.
No squadron play.


 

Capture.JPG

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Or anyone, actually...
Especially those who say USA is so OP with 188249% winrate.
Please show it to us. It's just that easy.
Nation USA, top tier vechiles. Solo, not squadron.
Play a match. Screenshot the match result.
Count em and post em here. 


Maybe someone even gets a lucky strike of 15, but I doubt it so much, that if we were in a bar, I'd lay 100€ on table.

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3 hours ago, WolFie90 said:

Or anyone, actually...
Especially those who say USA is so OP with 188249% winrate.
Please show it to us. It's just that easy.
Nation USA, top tier vechiles. Solo, not squadron.
Play a match. Screenshot the match result.
Count em and post em here. 


Maybe someone even gets a lucky strike of 15, but I doubt it so much, that if we were in a bar, I'd lay 100€ on table.

The M1 sits at 63.1% W/R

The IPM1 at a 61%

The 2A4 at 57.06%.

The Type 90 at 55.86%

 

The AMX 40 at 47.7%

The T-80B at a 44.94%.

The Challenger at 56.1% but it is common knowledge that it is being carried by the U.S team, or else I would predict its W/R fall well below 50%

 

But there is a clear pattern here. All tanks that perform well in CQC have better W/R while the less agile, more defensive tanks have worse W/R. The Abram's is the best in such CQC scenarios, it is more than capable of holding its own still due to the advantages it holds over the other tanks in such a META. The 2A4 has better pen values but worse post pen damage, the Type 90 shares the 5 second reload and much better pen values but trades it for having more limited ammo storage(unless you want to take ammo in the hull) and is distinctly worse in survivability due to the lack of internal module placements and a 3 man crew. 

 

The Top 3 have generally the same gun handling characteristics, the Abrams having better overall mobility but not by much depending on category, but only one nation is capable of bringing two 10.0 without spending gold on backups. So unless the META changes or new tanks are added with much better performances it does not need the M833.

 

This is based on before the new shell formula was added so I don't know what exactly has been changed yet or how these MBT's will perform.

 

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4 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

The M774 got nerfed really hard and maybe it is time for M833,

 

Except, others also got nerfed, so only the US receiving bandaid ammo in this situation would be rather unfair.

 

You'd essentially be giving the M1's a round that completely nullifies the Leopard 2A4's 120mm once again.

 

4 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

It will also get nerfed hard by the same formula, probably with similar performance to DM23.

 

Lanz Odermatt gives M833:

400mm @ 0°

230mm @ 60°

 

4 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

Also give Germany the DM33 and UK the L26. Won't change much in gameplay, but the whining should die down a bit.

 

No, it won't.

 

The exact opposite will happen, people just start asking for:

A) M1A1 with M829

B) M1IP with M900

 

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28 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Except, others also got nerfed, so only the US receiving bandaid ammo in this situation would be rather unfair.

 

You'd essentially be giving the M1's a round that completely nullifies the Leopard 2A4's 120mm once again. 

 

 

Lanz Odermatt gives M833:

400mm @ 0°

230mm @ 60°

 

 

No, it won't.

 

The exact opposite will happen, people just start asking for:

A) M1A1 with M829

B) M1IP with M900

 

 

So let's get this straight...

 

You mean to tell us that the L/O formula for the M833 for which the penetration is already inferior to the 120mm DM23 & 105mm DM33 while we're at this comparison of penetration...

 

image.png.ffc6def9c161c4ae2b00edc011dbc4

image.png.d94ab4dc8751cd4af9be9f903916c2

 

Is somehow going to completely nullify the Leo2A4's 120mm... Really, how is this going to work? M833 is a Long Rod APFSDS. It's just as screwed in post-penetration like 120mm DM23.

 

All we'd really be doing is renaming M735 to updated L/O M774 and then pre-nerf M774 to updated L/O M833 in terms of relevancy with the caveat of it being a long rod APFSDS.

 

A) Leo2A4 C with DM43 when? What about DM53??

B) Leo2A5 with DM53 stock like in 2017 April Fools when???

C) While we're at it, let's get in 105mm DM43 to go against M900 in relevancy and maybe a cameo with 105mm DM63 ;)

 

Edited by lVrizl
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51 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

The exact opposite will happen, people just start asking for:

A) M1A1 with M829

B) M1IP with M900

This is just your prejudice against US players.

 

The exact same will happen:

Germans:

  1. Leopard 2A5 with DM53
  2. Leopard 2A4 C with DM43

 

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58 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

This is just your prejudice against US players.

 

And this is just your way of dismissing arguments.

 

Quote

The exact same will happen:

 

Sure, where did I claim that it wouldn't happen?

 

You stated that the complaints would lessen as a result of your proposed changes, I don't think they will.

People will always find a way to cherry-pick a certain weakness of a vehicle and then blow it out of proportion in an effort to make the vehicle seem less effective than it really is.

 

Quote

Is somehow going to completely nullify the Leo2A4's 120mm... Really, how is this going to work?

 

M833 and DM23 would both have virtually identical penetration values, both would have similar, if not identical post-penetration damage, except the M68A1 just reload quicker.

So tell me, why would anyone want to use the L/44 over the M68A1 in that situation?

 

------

 

I think there's some confusion going on here, let me clarify by showing what I'd roughly want top-tier to look like:

 

8.3      M60A1 AOS /w M728    T-62A /w 3BM-6             Chieftain Mk 5 /w L15A3          Leopard 1 A1 /w DM12

8.7      M60A1 RISE /w M774   T-72 Ural /w 3BM-9        Chieftain Mk 10 /w L23             Leopard 1A4 /w DM23
9.3      XM-1 /w M735               T-64B /w 3BM-22           Challenger 1 Mk 1 /w L23         Leopard 2K /w DM13
10.0    M1 /w M774                  T-80B '83 /w 3BM-29      Challenger 1 Mk 2 /w L23A1    ----
10.3    M1IP /w M833               T-80BV /w 3BM-32         Challenger 1 Mk 3 /w L26         Leopard 2A4 B Tech /w DM23

 

Notes:

 

General:

Longrod damage modifiers removed across the board

Off-road top speed limitations for 3rd Gen MBT's removed

All NATO MBTs with blast doors will be counted as ammo racked when the blast doors are breached (and not just the M1Abrams)

 

US:

M60A1 AOS/RISE mantlets 127 > 325mm

XM-1 armour > ≈300-325mm vs APFSDS

M1IP turret cheeks 443 > 460mm vs APFSDS

M833 pen values > 400mm @ 0°, 230mm @ 60°

M1 / M1IP mantlet > (roughly) 350mm

 

Soviet:

Soviet tungsten cored APFSDS effectiveness vs composites reduced

T-80BV '85 glacis array, 460mm effective

T-72 Ural glacis vs APFSDS 270 > 310mm

3BM-32 pen values > 437mm @ 0°, 254mm @ 60°

Ammunition hit in carousel means 100% detonation rate

 

Britain:

L23A1 pen values > 230mm @ 60°

L26 pen values > (roughly) 480mm @ 0°, 265mm @ 60°

Challenger's CE protection raised to (roughly) 800mm

 

German:

Leopard 2A4 mantlet > (roughly) 400mm

Transmission rework for Leopard 2A4

(Kind of unsure what to put at the empty spot, any suggestions?.)

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

Except, others also got nerfed, so only the US receiving bandaid ammo in this situation would be rather unfair.

You'd essentially be giving the M1's a round that completely nullifies the Leopard 2A4's 120mm once again.

 

I just came across a post on a FB group and did my own test. The Abrams are now the only top tier tanks that cannot penetrate the T-64B reliably even at the driver zone at range.

Guess it is a kind of soft balance. Sure it can still pen near the top at the hatch, but that area is about as big as the Abrams turret ring.

 

On the other hand, all other top tier APFSDS rounds can easily penetrate the whole driver zone of T-64B. It is all green unlike with M774.

L23A1, DM12, DM23 and DM/JM33 can even penetrate areas outside of the driver zone. The advantage of 120mm gun is not nullified, at all.

 

DM23 > L23A1 > 3BM15 >>> M774

 

 

T64B.thumb.jpg.a1a4983114d546d5dbf2407a5

 

9 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

And this is just your way of dismissing arguments.

My argument is that German players would ask the same.

You did not debate, but dismissed it using this reply. Such irony.

:016:

Edited by Loongsheep
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12 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

The advantage of 120mm gun is not nullified, at all.

 

You're basing this conclusion off of a single example that only looks at a single weakspot of a single MBT.

 

I would argue that there are more situations in which the reload advantage plays a role than there are situations where you're forced to fire at the driver's spot of a T-64B.

 

I really wouldn't trade my M68A1 on my M1IP for the L/44 from the Leo 2A4 in it's current state, if DM23 had proper post-pen? sure, in that case I could deal with the longer reload, but not before that point.

 

Quote

My argument is that German players would ask the same.

 

And I agreed with that statement.

 

So, what are you getting at?

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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