Chuck_RCAF

Spitfires oil overheating

1 hour ago, s9723 said:

 

A lot of info can be obtained through localhost:8111 with the browser.  There is also a tool that can help to display and record info from 8111.

 

 

 

I am very familiar with the JSON data. In fact, I just finished heavily modifying the War Thunder Betty app to suit my purposes.

I would need to see the data comparing various boost/RPM/power outputs/temperatures from the data before I would be convinced that RPM had a greater influence on heat generation at equal power outputs. That would be an error in the engine modeling worthy of a bug report.

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@_Dawger_

I did some testing with spit Mk.Ia first controlling just throttle, second time controlling only RPM. The results are simply incredible. Just leave throttle at 100% and controll the engine only with RPM:

 

Reducing only throttle:

 

Throttle 100% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=378
H, m=179
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=100
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=893.6
RPM 1=2998

manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44
water temp 1, C=95
oil temp 1, C=78
pitch 1, deg=31.7
thrust 1, kgs=568
efficiency 1, %=88

 

Throttle 94% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=378
H, m=144  
throttle 1, %=94
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=785.2
RPM 1=2998

manifold pressure 1, atm=1.4
water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=78
pitch 1, deg=31.2
thrust 1, kgs=496
efficiency 1, %=87

 

Throttle 86% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=359
H, m=339
throttle 1, %=86
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=642.2
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.35

water temp 1, C=90
oil temp 1, C=84
pitch 1, deg=29.6
thrust 1, kgs=423
efficiency 1, %=86

 

Throttle 76% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1    
TAS, km/h=338
H, m=411
throttle 1, %=76
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=405 (!!!! less than half !!!!)
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.28

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=86 (temp is still rising)
pitch 1, deg=27.2
thrust 1, kgs=271
efficiency 1, %=83

 

Throttle 71% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=310
H, m=410
IAS, km/h=304
throttle 1, %=71
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=262 (lost another 150hp only 0.03 atm manifold pressure less than above!!!!)
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.25

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=86 (temp still high)
pitch 1, deg=24.6
thrust 1, kgs=178
efficiency 1, %=77

 

Throttle 60% RPM 100%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1   
TAS, km/h=248
H, m=198
throttle 1, %=60
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=199.9 (my car generates the similar hp as merlin at 60% throttle and 2600rpm... 2.0L 4 cylinder inline vs 27.0L V12)
RPM 1=2616
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.18

water temp 1, C=89
oil temp 1, C=80 (temp drops finally)
pitch 1, deg=23
thrust 1, kgs=172
efficiency 1, %=78

 

Reducing only RPM:

Throttle 100% RPM 87%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=397
H, m=217
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=87

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=881.8
RPM 1=2798
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=96
oil temp 1, C=81
pitch 1, deg=34.9
thrust 1, kgs=543
efficiency 1, %=89

 

Throttle 100% RPM 75%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=401
H, m=262
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=75

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=854.3
RPM 1=2616
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=94
oil temp 1, C=81
pitch 1, deg=37.2
thrust 1, kgs=524
efficiency 1, %=90

 

Throttle 100% RPM 62%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=392
H, m=346  
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=62

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=810.7
RPM 1=2422
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=81 (you can cruise on Sicily map with this setting without overheating)
pitch 1, deg=39.2
thrust 1, kgs=510
efficiency 1, %=90

 

Throttle 100% RPM 48%

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=409
H, m=306
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=48

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=744.1
RPM 1=2217
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=86
oil temp 1, C=79
pitch 1, deg=42.7
thrust 1, kgs=452
efficiency 1, %=91

 

Bonus - overboosting with +12lbs boost (WEP) and 48% prop pitch (2200RPM) which according to manual should only by applied when RPM is above 2800.

Look at horsepower and speed (!!!!), while temperature does not raise quickly at all. Of course such a setting wont destroy your engine in WT due to state of art engine modelling way ahead of other simulators:facepalm:.

Spoiler

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=432
H, m=331   
throttle 1, %=110
RPM throttle 1, %=48

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=989.5
RPM 1=2218
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.85

water temp 1, C=90
oil temp 1, C=83
pitch 1, deg=45.3
thrust 1, kgs=570
efficiency 1, %=91

 

5min flight time at 770hp comparison:
 

Throttle 93%, RPM 100%, oil temp 90oC

Spoiler

TAS, km/h=388
H, m=296    
throttle 1, %=93
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=770
RPM 1=2998
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.39

water temp 1, C=99
oil temp 1, C=90

pitch 1, deg=31.7
thrust 1, kgs=473
efficiency 1, %=87

 

 

Throttle 100%, RPM 53%, oil temp 77oC

Spoiler

TAS, km/h=406
H, m=270
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=53

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=768.6
RPM 1=2293
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=81
oil temp 1, C=77

pitch 1, deg=41.5
thrust 1, kgs=469
efficiency 1, %=91

 

CONCLUSION

With Spits keep throttle at 100% and only control the engine by changing prop pitch, you will keep high power and cool engine.

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8 minutes ago, Sputnik_77 said:

CONCLUSION

With Spits keep throttle at 100% and only control the engine by changing prop pitch, you will keep high power and cool engine. 

works well with most planes but in spits that's a must

great test!
I have exactly the same observations

Edited by przybysz86
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10 hours ago, Sputnik_77 said:

@_Dawger_

I did some testing with spit Mk.Ia first controlling just throttle, second time controlling only RPM. The results are simply incredible. Just leave throttle at 100% and controll the engine only with RPM:

 

Reducing only throttle:

 

Throttle 100% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=378
H, m=179
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=100
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=893.6
RPM 1=2998

manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44
water temp 1, C=95
oil temp 1, C=78
pitch 1, deg=31.7
thrust 1, kgs=568
efficiency 1, %=88

 

Throttle 94% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=378
H, m=144  
throttle 1, %=94
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=785.2
RPM 1=2998

manifold pressure 1, atm=1.4
water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=78
pitch 1, deg=31.2
thrust 1, kgs=496
efficiency 1, %=87

 

Throttle 86% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=359
H, m=339
throttle 1, %=86
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=642.2
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.35

water temp 1, C=90
oil temp 1, C=84
pitch 1, deg=29.6
thrust 1, kgs=423
efficiency 1, %=86

 

Throttle 76% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1    
TAS, km/h=338
H, m=411
throttle 1, %=76
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=405 (!!!! less than half !!!!)
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.28

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=86 (temp is still rising)
pitch 1, deg=27.2
thrust 1, kgs=271
efficiency 1, %=83

 

Throttle 71% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=310
H, m=410
IAS, km/h=304
throttle 1, %=71
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=262 (lost another 150hp only 0.03 atm manifold pressure less than above!!!!)
RPM 1=2992
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.25

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=86 (temp still high)
pitch 1, deg=24.6
thrust 1, kgs=178
efficiency 1, %=77

 

Throttle 60% RPM 100%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1   
TAS, km/h=248
H, m=198
throttle 1, %=60
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=199.9 (my car generates the similar hp as merlin at 60% throttle and 2600rpm... 2.0L 4 cylinder inline vs 27.0L V12)
RPM 1=2616
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.18

water temp 1, C=89
oil temp 1, C=80 (temp drops finally)
pitch 1, deg=23
thrust 1, kgs=172
efficiency 1, %=78

 

Reducing only RPM:

Throttle 100% RPM 87%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=397
H, m=217
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=87

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=881.8
RPM 1=2798
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=96
oil temp 1, C=81
pitch 1, deg=34.9
thrust 1, kgs=543
efficiency 1, %=89

 

Throttle 100% RPM 75%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=401
H, m=262
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=75

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=854.3
RPM 1=2616
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=94
oil temp 1, C=81
pitch 1, deg=37.2
thrust 1, kgs=524
efficiency 1, %=90

 

Throttle 100% RPM 62%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=392
H, m=346  
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=62

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=810.7
RPM 1=2422
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=92
oil temp 1, C=81 (you can cruise on Sicily map with this setting without overheating)
pitch 1, deg=39.2
thrust 1, kgs=510
efficiency 1, %=90

 

Throttle 100% RPM 48%

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=409
H, m=306
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=48

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=744.1
RPM 1=2217
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=86
oil temp 1, C=79
pitch 1, deg=42.7
thrust 1, kgs=452
efficiency 1, %=91

 

Bonus - overboosting with +12lbs boost (WEP) and 48% prop pitch (2200RPM) which according to manual should only by applied when RPM is above 2800.

Look at horsepower and speed (!!!!), while temperature does not raise quickly at all. Of course such a setting wont destroy your engine in WT due to state of art engine modelling way ahead of other simulators:facepalm:.

  Reveal hidden contents

type=spitfire_mk1
TAS, km/h=432
H, m=331   
throttle 1, %=110
RPM throttle 1, %=48

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=989.5
RPM 1=2218
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.85

water temp 1, C=90
oil temp 1, C=83
pitch 1, deg=45.3
thrust 1, kgs=570
efficiency 1, %=91

 

5min flight time at 770hp comparison:
 

Throttle 93%, RPM 100%, oil temp 90oC

  Reveal hidden contents

TAS, km/h=388
H, m=296    
throttle 1, %=93
RPM throttle 1, %=100

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=770
RPM 1=2998
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.39

water temp 1, C=99
oil temp 1, C=90

pitch 1, deg=31.7
thrust 1, kgs=473
efficiency 1, %=87

 

 

Throttle 100%, RPM 53%, oil temp 77oC

  Reveal hidden contents

TAS, km/h=406
H, m=270
throttle 1, %=100
RPM throttle 1, %=53

mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=100
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=768.6
RPM 1=2293
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.44

water temp 1, C=81
oil temp 1, C=77

pitch 1, deg=41.5
thrust 1, kgs=469
efficiency 1, %=91

 

CONCLUSION

With Spits keep throttle at 100% and only control the engine by changing prop pitch, you will keep high power and cool engine.

If you have a JSON datalogger I would suggest compiling data showing the heat progression at various power combinations. With that sort of data I can present it to the developers in a reasonable fashion.

 

Ideally graphs showing throttle, RPM, thrust, HP, oil and water temperature over time with data tables to back up the graphs.

 

 

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10 hours ago, _Dawger_ said:

Ideally graphs showing throttle, RPM, thrust, HP, oil and water temperature over time with data tables to back up the graphs. 

 

 

do you also want proposed changes to FM values with that? ;)

c'mon - devs should have enough with what @Sputnik_77 provided already

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22 hours ago, Sputnik_77 said:

 

Bonus - overboosting with +12lbs boost (WEP) and 48% prop pitch (2200RPM) which according to manual should only by applied when RPM is above 2800.

Look at horsepower and speed (!!!!), while temperature does not raise quickly at all. Of course such a setting wont destroy your engine in WT due to state of art engine modelling way ahead of other simulators:facepalm:.

Could you post that manual page from spit Ia?

I could only find IIa and b and there is written that at 2270 rpm for 3 minutes or up to 1000ft limited, you can have +12lbs. It is a different motor but made me curious.

Screenshot_20190210-125816.thumb.png.066

Edited by nazradu2
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37 minutes ago, nazradu2 said:

Could you post that manual page from spit Ia?

unknown.png

 

good luck cruising at 2600 and +4,5 or worse +2,5 lbs ;)

Edited by przybysz86
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56 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

good luck cruising at 2600 and +4,5 or worse +2,5 lbs ;)

Thanks. Checked that. 2600 and +2,5lbs gives gorgeous 94hp:good:

+4,5 about 520hp

I do not understand to the fullest what in terms of technical stuff is going wrong here with the spitfires, but I do understand now where all the complaints come from, especially from the aec users. I somehow doubt that gaijin will make it right for those. I did some long time testing on the testmap with mk IIb and whilst flying with recommended 2650 and not recommended +9lbs (100% thrust), it gave me constant 84 to 85 degrees on oil temp and about 960hp, with closed rad 460km/h at 1000ft. I checked what throttle you have to set in aec to get 2650 rpm. Turned out, that you end up at 85% throttle with only 750hp. Problem seems to be that thrust is bound to rpm control. Would it be a solution to change code to constant 2650 rpm and make it kick in 3000 rpm if WEP is set?

Edited by nazradu2
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4 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

do you also want proposed changes to FM values with that? ;)

c'mon - devs should have enough with what @Sputnik_77 provided already

Snapshots of a few data points without any real trend over time isn't anywhere near enough information to determine where the problem lies and what a solution might look like.

 

What is really required is data from several aircraft.

 

 

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I dont have json data logger so I wrote my own little app to store json data in a csv file, recording every 10 seconds.

 

I was flying Spit Mk.Ia at 750hp engine power, first using max RPM and adjusting only throttle, second is adjusting only RPM.

Temperature chart, where values #1 are for just throttle and #2 for just RPM (radiators 100% open all the time)

image.thumb.png.5ba11ec2f7391a110e8c0c69

 

DATA

 

TEST 1. Spitfire Mk.1a, Radiators 100%, 100% prop pitch, 92% throttle

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.f951bcd5258b6bc8fe3c1729

 

TEST 2. Spitfire Mk.1a, Radiators 100%, 49% prop pitch, 100% throttle

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.1cfaf4696843902651532513

 

RPM is major heat generation factor.

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6 hours ago, nazradu2 said:

Could you post that manual page from spit Ia?

I could only find IIa and b and there is written that at 2270 rpm for 3 minutes or up to 1000ft limited, you can have +12lbs. It is a different motor but made me curious.

Sorry I read it in some recommendation document issued after 20 march 1940 for Mk.Ia spits with engines converted for +12lbs boost, however cannot find it now, so maybe I should not mention this at all.

 

Edited by Sputnik_77
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5 hours ago, nazradu2 said:

+4,5 about 520hp

and that's maximum cruise setting - not economy cruise or anything.

+2.5 is econ. cruise :)

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11 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

and that's maximum cruise setting - not economy cruise or anything.

+2.5 is econ. cruise :)

With lean mixture.

 

Unfortunately in WT you cannot lean mixture in Spit - in game it goes nicely from 100% down when pressing button, but localhost:8111 reveals what really happens - it is always 100%.

 

Another thing - spitfires were overheating when stationary for too long before takeoff right? Then leave spit in test flight on runway with engine on for half an hour and check the temps.

Edited by Sputnik_77
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1 minute ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Unfortunately in WT you cannot lean mixture in Spit - in game it goes nicely from 100% down when pressing button, but localhost:8111 reveals what really happens - it is always 100%.

yes but going from rich to lean at +2.5lbs should not have that huge impact on power output. Some yes but less than 100hp?

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1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

 

Another thing - spitfires were overheating when stationary for too long before takeoff right? Then leave spit in test flight on runway with engine on for half an hour and check the temps.

This is also true for 109s DB 605A. Did read about a privat owned G4 and they have to get it airborn within 7, on cold days 10 minutes to prevent engine from overheating.

Get the feeling, that thermodynamic in WT is a little bit far away from beeing a simulation of physics...

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3 hours ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Another thing - spitfires were overheating when stationary for too long before takeoff right? Then leave spit in test flight on runway with engine on for half an hour and check the temps.

most air sims hve this one wrong and frankly I think we can leave without this feature when there are more pressing problems.

That said - it is possible to implement in WT as some planes do have this feature - they do overheat when stationary.

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3 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

yes but going from rich to lean at +2.5lbs should not have that huge impact on power output. Some yes but less than 100hp?

Leaning primarily should affect heat generation. Leaning makes an engine run hotter.

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50 minutes ago, _Dawger_ said:

Leaning primarily should affect heat generation. Leaning makes an engine run hotter.

exactly my point. possibly leaning too far can impact power output a little but I think we can assume that at +2,5lbs power should be similar between auto rich and auto lean and now in game at auto rich we get less than 100hp

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1 hour ago, przybysz86 said:

exactly my point. possibly leaning too far can impact power output a little but I think we can assume that at +2,5lbs power should be similar between auto rich and auto lean and now in game at auto rich we get less than 100hp

Leaning too far will damage the engine over time. 

 

I had a friend who flew a Beech 18 for a company that had a leaning policy that was pretty extreme in an effort to save money on gas and get longer legs out of the plane. After about 1000 hours of this the engines were in pretty poor shape. The right engine failed about 2 AM over north Louisiana. The left engine would not produce enough power to keep the airplane flying. He tried to land on a 2 lane road and hit a telephone pole.

 

The investigation determined both engines had serious degradation of all valves, pistons, and rings due to excessively lean mixtures.

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Too lean too long too bad is the saying. Dropping to stoichiometric ratios is not a good idea, I little bit of excess fuel both cools and lubricates the top end of engines. 

 

A big big thank you to Sputnik_77 for the very detailed and comprehensive testing.

 

 

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On 13/02/2019 at 10:44, nazradu2 said:

Thanks. Checked that. 2600 and +2,5lbs gives gorgeous 94hp:good:

It does not make sense.

I mean I don't really know how much power the engine should generate. I tried to search for equations, found this one:

https://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Engineering/PistonEngine_Power.htm

However I dont know what BMEP Merlin III produces at those settings.

 

I also found this:

http://www.weakforcepress.com/merlin_20.shtml

 

And especially this graph showing power curves for Merlin XX engine (1940 Hurricane Mk.II or Spit Mk.III):

PowerCurves.jpg

 

Notice the engine generates over 500hp at 1800RPM and +2.5lbs boost at 6000ft.

It really seems odd that in game engines spit engine generates such a low hp when reducing boost.

 

EDIT:

Testing Hurricane Mk.II/trop which has Merlin -XX engine as above, generates a bit higher hp values than above chart, for example at +2lbs at 6k ft and 1800RPM it generates 675hp

image.png.5e4690a1eb5fa98f785927dcade510

Edited by Sputnik_77
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I tested Spit Mk.1a and Hurricane Mk.I/L which have the same Merlin III engine.

 

I tested two cruise settings and it seems the Hurricane generates around 130hp more:

 

+4lbs, 2600RPM

Spoiler

type=hurricane_mk1
H, m=512
TAS, km/h=342
throttle 1, %=83
RPM throttle 1, %=74
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=0
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=651.7
RPM 1=2605
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.28
water temp 1, C=94
oil temp 1, C=72
pitch 1, deg=36.4
thrust 1, kgs=484
efficiency 1, %=93

 

type=spitfire_mk1
H, m=517
TAS, km/h=366
IAS, km/h=357
throttle 1, %=76
RPM throttle 1, %=74
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=89
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=528.6
RPM 1=2604
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.28
water temp 1, C=89
oil temp 1, C=79
pitch 1, deg=33.7
thrust 1, kgs=349
efficiency 1, %=88

 

+2.5lbs, 2600RPM

Spoiler

type=hurricane_mk1
H, m=657
TAS, km/h=310
IAS, km/h=300
throttle 1, %=67
RPM throttle 1, %=74
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=0
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=355.9
RPM 1=2605
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.18
water temp 1, C=90
oil temp 1, C=73
pitch 1, deg=30.9
thrust 1, kgs=291
efficiency 1, %=93

 

type=spitfire_mk1
H, m=528
TAS, km/h=277
IAS, km/h=270
throttle 1, %=61
RPM throttle 1, %=74
mixture 1, %=100
radiator 1, %=89
magneto 1=3
power 1, hp=234.8
RPM 1=2604
manifold pressure 1, atm=1.18
water temp 1, C=85
oil temp 1, C=77
pitch 1, deg=25.7
thrust 1, kgs=191
efficiency 1, %=82

 

I'm confused already, should they both be similar since it is exactly the same engine operated at the same parameters?

medal

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On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 06:19, Sputnik_77 said:

I tested Spit Mk.1a and Hurricane Mk.I/L which have the same Merlin III engine.

 

I tested two cruise settings and it seems the Hurricane generates around 130hp more:

 

<data deleted>
 

I'm confused already, should they both be similar since it is exactly the same engine operated at the same parameters?

 

Great catch, and great question … something appears to be wrong there.

 

The data from http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ is interesting, with climb and speed test data from 1940 for both Hurricane and Spit Mk.1 versions equipped with the Merlin III and the 3-blade 10'9"  Rotol prop. Only difference is the slightly higher prop pitch angles for the Spit (both ranging total 35 deg, but Spit just under 2 deg higher on both ends):

 

Hurricane Mk.1 L-2026  and Spitfire Mk1 N.3171:

 

IPSEYJY.jpg

 

The level speed test curves at 3,000 RPM are intriguing as well (need to squint for the Spit data):

 

p9WhyJT.jpg

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On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 06:53, Tamamonomae said:

What can't be dealt with is the horrendous stability issues that every single spitfire in the line seems to have where they're constantly flopping around and trying to flip over. I've flown Spitfires in at least 3 other different simulators and none of them behave even remotely close to how they do in Warthunder currently. You can tell something is horribly wrong just by taking off because you can get off the ground in 3-5 seconds at way below the speed you'd expect the plane to stall and no WW2 fighter behaved like this even many biplanes don't behave like this. It isn't an issue you can just fix with trim either and it's the main reason that literally nobody is flying spitfires in SB at the moment especially at lower tiers. Sure you CAN fly spitfires and get kills in them but between the horrendously broken flight model, the dramatic overheating, and the unfavorable matchups it faces in the 109 E-1 and E-4 (both of which also have broken flight models) they're just painful to fly now.

 

Funny you mention this because I flew EC Stalingrad yesterday with a squad mate who is a very good sim pilot, and he flew the Spit for about 45 minutes out of about 2 hrs 30 minutes of flight time … 5 deaths during that time in the Spit, with 3 deaths in the other 1 hr 45 min, and by the end of the battle he was spewing venom at the spin-deaths and swore the Spitfire off forever. I made this painful realization a few weeks ago and now choose the Hurricane instead. :018:

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1 hour ago, JR_Strane said:

 

Funny you mention this because I flew EC Stalingrad yesterday with a squad mate who is a very good sim pilot, and he flew the Spit for about 45 minutes out of about 2 hrs 30 minutes of flight time … 5 deaths during that time in the Spit, with 3 deaths in the other 1 hr 45 min, and by the end of the battle he was spewing venom at the spin-deaths and swore the Spitfire off forever. I made this painful realization a few weeks ago and now choose the Hurricane instead. :018:

Wanted to test the mec results from this thread myself yesterday in battle surrounding and flew EC2 Sicily. After the first short game I had a similar opinion to what you wrote about your friend. Then I digged a little in old threads about spit elevator. Did read an advice from IFF about multiplier and set pitch multiplier to 0.75. Not perfect, but a good point to start fine tuning. Made a short second game of 30 or 40 minutes and landed at 4 kills 0 deaths, two from Mk Ia and two from MkIIb and had not the feeling of beeing in trouble. For the next time I will also raise the multiplier of roll, cause I reach the end of the stick very often. After the second game I was more anoyed by the workload that mec gives me in that plane and with Oculus on I don't want to check localhost and all I did was trying to keep boost high and temp low. 

Edited by nazradu2
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