MTom

Air RB not woth playing anything but germans?

4 hours ago, Youda008 said:

This is possible only when the enemy is either flying completely in a straight line, or he is constantly turning in a same direction. But that doesn't happen most of the time, most players will perform random turning and rolling maneuvers in which if you don't have a rudder, especially if your roll rate also isn't stelar to keep up with him, you will always miss.

 

The only times it isn't possible is when they are jinxing about defensively or trying to get you to overshoot via changing direction in their maneuvers a lot.

 

If they are jinxing about they are burning energy quite a bit and will relatively quickly be at speeds where rudder stiffness will not be an issue. The answer there is for you to be patient and not roll about like a mad man after their maneuvers. They aren't trying to commit to turns themselves so don't try to follow. If you want to take a shot in those scenarios anticipate where they might try to change direction and try to pop them then.

 

If they are trying to get you to overshoot avoid rolling with them. Your only making it easier for them to get a counter attack into you. Rather wait for them to commit into a turn or do like above and try to anticipate them crossing your sights and try to pop them then.

 

3 hours ago, Youda008 said:

Just a quick demonstration

  Hide contents

 

 

Sometimes the aim problems aren't just due to weak rudder, but also due to poor roll rate or high rolling innertia, which means you always over-roll, and the rudder can't compensate. So everytime you want your plane to go left, it goes right and vice versa, so you're just spraying everywhere in vain, wasting more and more energy in a turn because why would you abort the maneuvers now, when you are right behind him, he's there, right in front of you, but you just can't put the crossair on the right place ... until you're too slow and can't turn anymore, and then you get outturned and killed.

 

And this is why the high speed maneuverability on the US planes don't matter at all, because you can't get the guns on target until you're too slow.

And it's also why the high ammo count isn't that much of an advantage as people say, because you need the hell ALL of it, thanks to high miss-rate due to aiming problems.

 

The entire issue with the latter 2 of those videos is that you are following the maneuvers too much which is causing the rudder stiffness to be an issue. You're over controlling your own airplane trying to force the shot rather than lining up the shot. I've been in those exact same scenarios myself yet because I know how to use roll to mitigate the issue and I don't over fly my airplane I don't have near the issue with it that you do. It is something that you have to practice to get better at. Once you get better at it you yourself will be disagreeing with what you typed.

Edited by silentrain
  • Thanks 3
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, s9723 said:

BR change table from Russian forum 

A8704053-1C8A-477F-9BA7-EB0E572E8613.png

 

 

While its not on official forum, it means nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, BrassWolf said:

 

Something wrong here. Why those changes are not in .com forum?

Because stuff is published in russian before it's published in other languages. It will probably be published tomorrow.

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Rclz said:

Because stuff is published in russian before it's published in other languages. It will probably be published tomorrow.

 

Same tank BR changes are published on .com for a few days already. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, silentrain said:

The entire issue with the latter 2 of those videos is that you are following the maneuvers too much which is causing the rudder stiffness to be an issue. You're over controlling your own airplane trying to force the shot rather than lining up the shot. I've been in those exact same scenarios myself yet because I know how to use roll to mitigate the issue and I don't over fly my airplane I don't have near the issue with it that you do. It is something that you have to practice to get better at. Once you get better at it you yourself will be disagreeing with what you typed.

I'm not denying that there are workarounds, but it's yet another issue the US players have to deal with while the others don't, worsening the game experience and decreasing the chances of winning an air combat and getting a kill.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Einherjer1979 said:


Great news!
 

Let's keep fingers crossed that it's not a fake!

 

vBDZ3EK.jpg

 

 

Check La-7b-20 old BR. It doesn't correspond to what we got ingame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, BrassWolf said:

 

Check La-7b-20 old BR. It doesn't correspond to what we got ingame.



If so, what are we dealing with? This post on the Russian forum was published by the "community manager", it would be strange if it was just a fake / joke / trolling..whatever.

Maybe @Smin1080p or @Stona could comment it:
 

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/260347-izmeneniya-boevykh-reitingov-200219/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/2/d/e/2PACX-1vQjcGww6PNxNGCHevwBC9tr-_tt4c5F5oiTYj3Y4UyTYxaHdZDzQe-j4SpBr3tSIIBNHAN1W9UVfpXn/pubhtml

Edited by Einherjer1979
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Einherjer1979 said:

If so, what are we dealing with? This post on the Russian forum was published by the "community manager", it would be strange if it was just a fake / joke / trolling..whatever.

 

I've just noticed some mistakes there. And this sheet is not on .com... Something stinky here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Youda008 said:

I'm not denying that there are workarounds, but it's yet another issue the US players have to deal with while the others don't, worsening the game experience and decreasing the chances of winning an air combat and getting a kill.

 

It isn't just US planes with stiff rudder at speeds in all fairness so it is not a US exclusive thing. Also the issue pops up consistantly for those overflying their airplanes. Do I miss opportunities because of rudder stiffness? Yes. However I also do due to lack of roll and elevator authority. All 3 occasions are a varying combination of lack of skill and aircraft limitations. In the videos that you provided above a lack of skill is as much at fault, if not more so, than aircraft limitations. The aircraft was capable of lining up and landing the shots in those scenarios. Understand that I am not calling you a bad player. Rather I am saying that you made mistakes. One of which caused you to unnecessarily collide with the Do-217. Those mistakes are correctable though and if you can correct them then this would become less of an issue for you than it currently is.

  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BrassWolf said:

 

I've just noticed some mistakes there. And this sheet is not on .com... Something stinky here

But this is part of Gaijin community. I tried to log in only by clicking "log in" bar and it redirected me straight into the forum as member without registration - God... I hate cyrillic despite that I can read it.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/02/2019 at 22:09, BrassWolf said:

 

I've just noticed some mistakes there. And this sheet is not on .com... Something stinky here


В таблицах возможны ошибки. Мы их исправим. = The tables may have errors. We will fix them.

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/260418-izmeneniya-boevykh-reitingov-22-fevralya-novaya/&tab=comments#comment-7369856

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/02/2019 at 21:17, Youda008 said:

How? You already tried it, and it didn't go very well for you. If you had a competent teammate, that would be a different story maybe, but alone? Not a chance.

Average Japan plane is already less of an issue than Bf-109, because it's at least slow and easy to get away from. If a Bf-109 catches you little offguard, you're done, can't run, can't climb, can't turn.

 

In fact American planes aren't that hard to deal with when above. They bleed more energy in their BnZ attacks than other fighters, so if he keeps booming and zooming on you and you keep carefully and thoroughly evading, after 2-4 passes you will be on his energy level denying him next pass, and then you can just pitch your nose up at 15 degrees and soon you are in a position where you would be in the beginning of the match after climbing to the center - above your enemy.

 

 

 

That's exactly correct.

 

Is why you can be 2km above a 109 who is turn fighting on the deck and you really don't have a clear advantage!

Your BnZ has to be pristine perfect. All he has to do is evade then turn on you and with his massively superior totally broken instantaneous energy (that came out of where???) stick to your tail and shoot you down. He can prop hang and spray his broken 151 nukes at you, and you know that just one single round landing blows off your wing or your fuselage. Making a perfect zoom climb impossible. You simply must evade as you zoom and every milometer of movement drains your energy massively.

 

You get 1-2 passes of this at best and he has the energy advantage. And you're dead.

  • Confused 3
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or you can actually learn how to attack an enemy below you to keep your energy advantage.

 

When people claim that the opponent got 'energy out of nowhere', that's generally wrong. 

But it's much easier to claim that a fighter generates energy out of thin air than to understand how to deny it the time to build it while not wasting yours.

  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rapitor said:

Or you can actually learn how to attack an enemy below you to keep your energy advantage.

 

When people claim that the opponent got 'energy out of nowhere', that's generally wrong. 

But it's much easier to claim that a fighter generates energy out of thin air than to understand how to deny it the time to build it while not wasting yours.

 

Oh sure, its just 1000x more difficult and unforgiving to do with USA since he is literally throwing grenades at you, you must evade at least a little while zoom climbing.

 

A clean zoom climb is only a dream when a 109s acceleration allows him to go from maximum elevator turn fighting to leveling out and at full speed in a couple seconds then just prop hanging and spray and praying his hundreds of grenades at you.

 

I agree with Youda 100% on this one. Germans don't have to watch their energy at all. They can just turn fight on the deck and recover from their mistake in seconds.

 

USA however is completely unforgiving.

 

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, DaGreenBolt said:

So if k4 is going to 5.7br, where is the p-51H br raise to 6.7br so it would be the same br as the spitfire mk 24. Where's the uptier in br for the d28, p-51D 30, and f82. In all honesty the d28 should be at 5.0br, f82 at 5.3 or 5.7 along with the p-51D 30. 

 

The K4 is very close to the P-51H so yes the P-51H should also be lowered in BR while the K4 is raised.

Phly Daily even did a video to show the K4 has superior energy to a P-51H, you should watch it. It's true.

 

The Spitfire MK24 was great. A very long time ago. It's as history as the Bearcats.

The D28 is worse than the 109G2 so where is the downtier you mean?

The D30 is the least competitive it's been in years. In fact I find none of the D mustangs worth playing in the latest 3 patches. It has one of the worst if not the weakest damage model in the game and virtually never survives even a single round from anything, let alone German nukes. A 109F4 or a J2M2 are both extremely competitive with a D30, and at much lower BRs.

The F82 is the only competitive T4 option for USA, since 14 50 cals are what it takes to better a single German 20mm these days. And even then head ons are very much not advised vs Germany.

 

'Honestly' if you want to use that word:

The E1 should be 3.0

The F4 should be 4.7

The G2 should be 5.0

The TA154 should be 4.7.

The K4 should be 5.7

The TA 152 should be 6.0

The ME163 should be exploded at the silly unrealistic maneuvers it pulls.

The 262C2 should be 8.3 and never see 7.0 again!

The R2Y2s should all be 8.0 and above.

The CL13 should be on the USA team and not Germany. Since when would USA give it's best jet away???

Edited by slipnslyde
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 3
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slipnslyde said:

 

The K4 is very close to the P-51H so yes the P-51H should also be lowered in BR while the K4 is raised.

Phly Daily even did a video to show the K4 has superior energy to a P-51H, you should watch it. It's true.

 

The Spitfire MK24 was great. A very long time ago. It's as history as the Bearcats.

The D28 is worse than the 109G2 so where is the downtier you mean?

The D30 is the least competitive it's been in years. In fact I find none of the D mustangs worth playing in the latest 3 patches. It has one of the worst if not the weakest damage model in the game and virtually never survives even a single round from anything, let alone German nukes. A 109F4 or a J2M2 are both extremely competitive with a D30, and at much lower BRs.

The F82 is the only competitive T4 option for USA, since 14 50 cals are what it takes to better a single German 20mm these days. And even then head ons are very much not advised vs Germany.

 

'Honestly' if you want to use that word:

The E1 should be 3.0

The F4 should be 4.7

The G2 should be 5.0

The TA154 should be 4.7.

The K4 should be 5.7

The TA 152 should be 6.0

The ME163 should be exploded at the silly unrealistic maneuvers it pulls.

The 262C2 should be 8.3 and never see 7.0 again!

The R2Y2s should all be 8.0 and above.

The CL13 should be on the USA team and not Germany. Since when would USA give it's best jet away???

i can't tell if the BR proposals are sarcasm or not

  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slipnslyde said:

Germans don't have to watch their energy at all. They can just turn fight on the deck and recover from their mistake in seconds.

Even if this was true, what would you do about it?  It's a disadvantage of the plane irl.

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Spindash64 said:

i can't tell if the BR proposals are sarcasm or not

 

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic about thinking I'm being sarcastic.

Which of the totally broken OP vehicles do you think actually deserves to stay so?

I'm convinced you could raise literally all of the BRs noted and several others as well, and Germany would still be better than USA in the entire Air RB game.

23 minutes ago, fufubear said:

Even if this was true, what would you do about it?  It's a disadvantage of the plane irl.

 

I don't buy the realism argument for OP Germany.

Germany was only OP in the very early stages of the war, and only because they caught everyone else off guard.

Just one example, by the time the 109F was introduced, it was about the same time as the 190 was introduced.

And the allies from then on considered the 109s obsolete. They only worried about the 190s from that point on.

 

IRL USA had 50:1 KD in the South Pacific with F6F Hellcats, right up to the end of the war.

Not exactly modeled in the game where the entire USA tree struggles with Japan!

 

I'm willing to throw out IRL because it's just a game. But then every game should be balanced with all factions winning 50% of the time.

Not exactly what we get with OP Germany/Japan/Italy!

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 2
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, slipnslyde said:

I don't buy the realism argument for OP Germany.

Germany was only OP in the very early stages of the war, and only because they caught everyone else off guard.

Just one example, by the time the 109F was introduced, it was about the same time as the 190 was introduced.

And the allies from then on considered the 109s obsolete. They only worried about the 190s from that point on.

 

IRL USA had 50:1 KD in the South Pacific with F6F Hellcats, right up to the end of the war.

Not exactly modeled in the game where the entire USA tree struggles with Japan!

 

I'm willing to throw out IRL because it's just a game. But then every game should be balanced with all factions winning 50% of the time.

Not exactly what we get with OP Germany/Japan/Italy!

Read what I posted.

 

US planes poor climb rate is a result of the planes themselves being heavy.  The US had a very powerful and reliable engine in the r2800 but they stuck them in big heavy airframes so the ptw (and the ttw) were all lower than their axis counterparts.  Messerschmitt inversely took a high power engine and stuck it in a very light airframe granting the 109 opposite side effects compared to a plane like the p47.

 

Western allies considered it obsolete because they faced a whole bunch of teenagers flying G6s in P51s and tempests.  The Soviets inversely said the 109 is great.

 

Hellcat is said to have 19:1 not 50:1 but that factors in bombers too.  Regardless, kill count speaks nothing of how good a plane is.  There is no reason an A6M5 could not deal with an F6F3.  The issue is just that pilot quality declined in Japan.

 

So this brings me back to my question.  If the Germans dont have to care about energy then what are you going to do to balance it?  Add 500kg to every 109 like gaijin did with the D13 wayback? Because in that case I'd like to add invisible bombs on F8Fs and P51s so I can catch them in my Japanese planes.

Edited by fufubear
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.