MTom

Air RB not woth playing anything but germans?

P-38G/XP-38G and the F6F-5 are also both fun to fly once fully upgraded, sitting just outside the reach of the K-4 and the Doras. the 5N "blackcat" less so, since it's heavier and at a worse BR, but the extra cannon punch can be appreciated at times, and its performance isn't THAT much worse, all considered (once radar is added, I see it becoming a popular choice as an All weather fighter)

 

I've also found the P-40F to be worth flying as well

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3 hours ago, Ska_King_Felix said:

Don’t forget the F2A-1.  Insane turn rate rivaling that of a Chaika, can climb near vertically, and has 3 .50’s and a .30.

 

I didn't want to add any more really low BR planes since things don't matter much down there. Anything at BR 2.3 or less comes down to an experienced pilot beating up on new players, honestly. I was even hesitant to list the P-36G for that reason.

 

3 hours ago, Spindash64 said:

P-38G/XP-38G and the F6F-5 are also both fun to fly once fully upgraded, sitting just outside the reach of the K-4 and the Doras. the 5N "blackcat" less so, since it's heavier and at a worse BR, but the extra cannon punch can be appreciated at times, and its performance isn't THAT much worse, all considered (once radar is added, I see it becoming a popular choice as an All weather fighter)

 

I've also found the P-40F to be worth flying as well

 

My personal opinion is that the F6F-5 is not a good plane at 3.7, and I think they only reason that some people manage to do well with it is because (if it has some energy) it can turn really well for a few turns. I gave spading the F6F-5N an honest try but gave up, it's just pure misery at 4.3, about as bad as trying to spade the Firebrand or Whirlwind at their old BR.

 

Also personal opinion, but I don't think the P-40F is very good, either. What benefit it gains over the P-40E at altitude is lost in worse performance pretty much in every other regard, or at least that's how it feels.

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11 hours ago, Ska_King_Felix said:

I’ve beaten K-4’s in sustained dogfights at low speeds in the P-47D-28 and P-38J/L.  It’s really just a matter of flaps/throttle usage, as 109’s have some of the worst flaps in game and U.S. planes have some really nice ones.  190’s turn like bricks with flaps or without, so you can maneuver with them without flaps.  Of course, not recommending you try this, but if you get caught in a 1v1 against the last fighter alive, it’s worth a try.

 

On another note, MG151 are pretty much the best guns in the game.  They’re absolutely OP.

Not buying it for a second. 109 is much better then your making out. 

 

7 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

P-36G

F4U-1A

P-39N

P-63A-5

P-63A-10

P-63C-5

P-47D-28

P-51D-30

F4U-4B

*XP-38

*XP-55

*P-51D-20

*P-47M

 

That's my list of American planes to fly if you want to do well flying USA without having to go full try-hard.

 

Why would you put the D-20 on this list

Edited by DaffanZ
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11 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Why would you put the D-20 on this list

 

Well, I meant whichever of the Premium Mustangs is essentially the same as the D-30, can't remember if that's the D-10 or D-20.

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2 minutes ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

Well, I meant whichever of the Premium Mustangs is essentially the same as the D-30, can't remember if that's the D-10 or D-20.

D-10 but it's worse then D-30 but pretty close. D-20 is the broken one they never went back and retroactively adjusted.

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2 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

Not buying it for a second. 109 is much better then your making out. 

 

I know the 109's are maneuverable (actually think the F-4's near equal to the later Spits at very low speeds due to the LE slats), but the flaps are horrendous and the P-47 outrolls them at all speeds.  Plus, he did make a few mistakes (reversing his turn), and if he did keep turning, I would have lost eventually.

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It used to be nice when we had regular Historical Events and could fly realistic matchups and not this Arcade+ garbage RB has become over the past few years.

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16 hours ago, BrassWolf said:

 

Tell this to A6M, Yak and Spitfire pilots

A6Ms, Yaks and Spitfires are not on low energy below US planes unless they do something wrong. They still have climb rate over them. Corsairs over Bf-109s do not.

 

5 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

Well, I meant whichever of the Premium Mustangs is essentially the same as the D-30, can't remember if that's the D-10 or D-20.

None of them. D-20 is 67, D-10 72 and D-30 75. D-10 is decent plane, but you still need to sideclimb in order to do something usefull.

Edited by Youda008
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Just finished a battle against Germans TAs and 109Gs, which pretty much sums up the entire state of RB, map designs and matchmaking, and why it's completely broken and not worth anybody's time, if you're anything but German/Italian/japan...

 

Allies spawned in with with 4 premium wyverns, I in my Tempest V, a few sptifires and a couple bombers.

 

Note that not even one fighter thought it would a good idea to climb, and everyone was just hugging the ground like plebs.

 

Game started with the usual suicide bombers going straight for bases.

 

Then the first wave of  about 3-4 low alt german fighters came in and got taken down by the ground hugging premium plebs in their wyverns, until there was about 5 fighters left in the opposing team, 3 TAs, and 2 109Gs, and us about 8 fighters left.

 

That remaining enemy were all in high altitudes obviously, about 6-7k high. I was pushing 7k sideclimb myself at that time in my tempest and started heading towards them.

 

They started easily picking off the 4 desperately attempting to climb Spits from above, while the self-defeated wyvern plebs remained on the ground not doing jackshit and killing as many ground units as possible, before their forseen inevitable end.

 

At that point I was pushing 7.5k above the enemy group as they picked off allied planes one by one, and began identifying a possible target to dive on before the remaining allies died and the enemy's attention would turn on me. 

 

Although, *Gasp* shock horror! 

What do you know! 

 

Even after all that time and effort sideclimbing, a lone TA, obviously still in a MUCH HIGHER position above me appeared out of nowhere and shot me down before I could be of any use at all.

That was 15 mins of my time I'll never get back.

 

The rest of the match was then pretty much the same old picking off of the remaining useless allied planes on the ground from above and yet another easy AF win for the germans.

 

To sum up, if we compare the level of freedom and choice as a 4.7 fighter (and below) in an allied team : 

 

I can choose to sideclimb but will nontheless be faced with much more powerful planes that will still outclimb me if they choose to, hide well above, tip over, and pick me off before I even know it.

 

I can choose to stick with the group of low flying plebs, and hopefully maybe get an opportunistic kill or 2, but knowing we would all pretty much die and lose the match at this current state.

 

Either way, 90% chances of getting fecked as allies in that BR and below, and thanks to an absolutely broken balance with climbrates, spawnpoints, team collusions, matchmakings and map designs.

 

Unless you get a seriously underskilled german/axis team (as if, they weren't enough as easymode plebs to begin with...), as allied, you have next to zero chance in every match.

 

So I rest my case, this game is done for me.

Unless Gaijin adresses some core design changes for matches, I'll not be wasting any more of my time and money with it.

 

And if you're allied, and also having a hard time, neither should you, and if you're german/axis, welp, good on you for feeling satisfied and proud about clubbing new players and biplanes in your HE 100s, low alt players in your 109Gs and TAs, and setting it all up to cruise in Easymode, along with Gaijin's benediction...(aka: complete scrublords)

Edited by xXElemarXx
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It's a vicious circle.

When an average player realizes how bad it is, and how futile are his attempt to fight for air superiority against hordes or space climbing Axis planes, he will simply try something else. If he wants to play fighters and dogfight, he will switch to other nation. If he still wants to grind the US tree, he will rather kill some low flying attacker and few ground units before dying as that yields higher score and rewards than trying it up high and dying without doing anything.

US lacks dedicated and motivated fighter pilots, because they either left for other nation or gave up on fighters and play attackers or bombers.

Despite how unpopular and seemingly illogical it may be, the only way to balance the game is to increase incentive to play US fighters and use them as fighters by buffing their capabilities, either by reworking the game mode to put more emphasize on their strengths or by tweaking BRs.

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I'm more of a Britain player, and have a few US planes too, but it got to the point where it's not even worth grinding to save up lions to use for br 4.0 and above fighter battles, and facing up to such utterly useless losses and wasted time at each match. 

 

I switched to Germans for about a week just to see, and I could go as far as to say that if I needed my steady influx of lions, Id only have to stick to them for a while, and return to playing Britain again later ...


Yea just that shows how proper screwed it's become, being forced to switch to stay afloat... lol

Edited by xXElemarXx
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I stuggled with the british honestly i just wanted toget to something to pair with my top tier tanks (Attacker) and after i got it i found that the early jets are much better balanced in air RB than props...not 100% balanced (HO229 turning on a dime without losing any speed seemingly) but much better, as early jets can't climb that well on neither side, but going for speed, they usually  clash around 2-2.5k alt with 1-2 climbers higher on both sides.

 

I do suck at jets (still earning them), but here at least it feels i have a chance, not like in props where no matter what you do you play from a HUGE disadvantage.

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6 hours ago, Ska_King_Felix said:

I know the 109's are maneuverable (actually think the F-4's near equal to the later Spits at very low speeds due to the LE slats), but the flaps are horrendous and the P-47 outrolls them at all speeds.  Plus, he did make a few mistakes (reversing his turn), and if he did keep turning, I would have lost eventually.

109 has almost no compression in this game. K4 is insane at 5.3, because of it's BS performance at that BR, it's basically the only 109 in service other then G2, therefore P-47 vs K4 in every game. 

Edited by DaffanZ
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On 22/01/2019 at 03:06, Youda008 said:

It's a vicious circle.

When an average player realizes how bad it is, and how futile are his attempt to fight for air superiority against hordes or space climbing Axis planes, he will simply try something else. If he wants to play fighters and dogfight, he will switch to other nation. If he still wants to grind the US tree, he will rather kill some low flying attacker and few ground units before dying as that yields higher score and rewards than trying it up high and dying without doing anything.

US lacks dedicated and motivated fighter pilots, because they either left for other nation or gave up on fighters and play attackers or bombers.

Despite how unpopular and seemingly illogical it may be, the only way to balance the game is to increase incentive to play US fighters and use them as fighters by buffing their capabilities, either by reworking the game mode to put more emphasize on their strengths or by tweaking BRs.

 

There are numerous issues that lead to this:

 

  1. The majority are not experience with fighter tactics and the pros/cons of their aircraft. They just want to jump in and shoot stuff. You need to rethink your expectations if you expect anyone in an online game is going to be a team player. The developers can put all the rewards there to increase interest, but you can't force them to play something they have no interest in. It's like taking the horse to a water well, but you yourself can't do much if it doesn't feel like drinking from it.
  2. Certain nations at certain BRs have ineffective tech vehicles starting off against what they face in that BR bracket. Also, they are not easy to get results when starting to grind them in stock configuration. So climbing is not possible, leaving ground targets as the only option to gain some RP to get the much needed upgrades.
  3. We know the maps with the Arcade+ layout ripped from Arcade Ground Strike is a factor, but also the scoring system is another problem as well. I'll break this down below.

 

Prior we had bombers earning their keep with bombing of bases, often going to the top of the scoreboard. Last year they did a hard nerf on them, so blowing a base barely nets you around 500 points (depending on TNT amount dropped). In my opinion, this nerf was needed to prevent many abusing bombers in a way to farm income. But the amount was so overdone that it makes grinding a bomber very slow and frustrating for anyone grinding them right now. So it forces most to do the typical suicide run hitting ground targets at the match start. Why?

 

Because ground targets nets you a lot of points in RP and Silver Lions. Air kills does too, but ground pounding is consistent...as air kills are not and takes time to setup. This is why most are flying low, especially when grinding out a stock aircraft. Just taking out one Light Pillbox can net you around 100 RP. Even a Medium Tank can net you around 70 RP, with AA guns being around 10 RP each as a bonus. You multiply that over time with 20+ kills and using a booster for bigger rewards, you can go to town on earnings (win or loss).

 

Changing the meta with map designs and the game mode is not going to solve all the issues Air RB has until they revamp the scoring system itself as well. And it shouldn't be to a point it favors fighters, or just attackers/bombers only. It needs to be balanced out between all these units as a combined air battle that communicates and work together. Like a fighter should be rewarded for escorting a bomber/attacker by staying within a certain distance of it. Even if no fighters attack that bomber, that escorting player should be fairly rewarded and compensated for his/her time being a team player.

 

This is why I believe Enduring Confrontation is the future for Air RB. Having missions up like fighters providing CAP (Combat Air Patrol) over an area, while the attackers do CAS (Close Air Support) for your teams ground forces. Bombers and certain strike aircraft get strategic missions to focus on the enemies logistics. The point is everyone has a purpose and a role, breaking away from the typical Arcade+ team arena we've been having for many years.

Edited by I_Termx_I
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11 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

109 has almost no compression in this game. K4 is insane at 5.3, because of it's BS performance at that BR, it's basically the only 109 in service other then G2, therefore P-47 vs K4 in every game. 

K-4 is very, very good for 5.3, and could probably move up to 5.7, but it rolls quite poorly and loses a lot of thrust at low speeds.  You can exploit that.

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Allied teams are weird. Every time i see mustangs, corsairs and all sorts of p38 i cant help but think "well that could ve been a spitfire and it better would have been one too".

 

I think that la7 3b20 and i185 m71 are good planes to fight the germans at tier 4. Yak3 vk107 is another good plane. La9 is ok.

 

You should stick to these or griffon 14, bearcat, tempest. Spitfire lf9 of course.

 

You probably should stay away from p38, yak3 and yak9, evn the corsairs are controversial. A huge amount of firepower but they will lose dogfights to k4 and d9.

 

I ve played countless games and im pretty much used to getting outclimbed in my soviet planes. It doesnt matter all that much if you are skilled and help each other (in theory). Especially helps to have a good roll rate like i185 and la7, bearcat.

Edited by Max__Damage
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3 hours ago, Ska_King_Felix said:

K-4 is very, very good for 5.3, and could probably move up to 5.7, but it rolls quite poorly and loses a lot of thrust at low speeds.  You can exploit that.

But Allied planes are even worse at low speeds. 

 

Of course it should be 5.7, because right now it shares the same BR as the G10 and G14 which are worse. 

Edited by DaffanZ
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I am a quite dedicated axis player, in the 3.3 - 4.7 range, mainly howling my fw's and bf's in simulator ec.

 

When i'm in the right mood for having some fun, i bring my fw a1 in realistic battles, keeping my sim setup. ( flying from cockpit view, using joystick and full real controls)

 

To my surprise, 60 /70 %  of the time, allied teams just go down low, there, low, where pidgeons like to hang arround.  Making my engagements risk free.

 

Altough they usually have better climbing, better turning and faster airplanes.

 

They seldom try to outfly you, for the most part, they point their nose up, firing from 2 km.

 

And i just get away more than half of the matches, alive, with 1/2/3 kills and mission victory. 

 

It's just that allied pilots are usually bad, they do not know how to use their planes. 

 

But when you encounter a good pilot, applying energy fighting doctrine, keeping speed and altitude, it is pretty much untouchable.

 

( he will loose the match because his team went pidgeon mode and got rolfstomped by axis players )

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30 minutes ago, ArhanghelGavriil said:

I am a quite dedicated axis player, in the 3.3 - 4.7 range, mainly howling my fw's and bf's in simulator ec.

 

When i'm in the right mood for having some fun, i bring my fw a1 in realistic battles, keeping my sim setup. ( flying from cockpit view, using joystick and full real controls)

 

To my surprise, 60 /70 %  of the time, allied teams just go down low, there, low, where pidgeons like to hang arround.  Making my engagements risk free.

 

Altough they usually have better climbing, better turning and faster airplanes.

 

They seldom try to outfly you, for the most part, they point their nose up, firing from 2 km.

 

And i just get away more than half of the matches, alive, with 1/2/3 kills and mission victory. 

 

It's just that allied pilots are usually bad, they do not know how to use their planes. 

 

But when you encounter a good pilot, applying energy fighting doctrine, keeping speed and altitude, it is pretty much untouchable.

 

( he will loose the match because his team went pidgeon mode and got rolfstomped by axis players )

They go low because, it takes 6-7 minutes to climb and the enemy will be there in 4-5 minutes. This is plain as day. 

 

Japanese planes like German can just afk climb into center of map and nobody will beat them there. The simple 4.0 J2M2 climbs 2 minutes FASTER to altitude then the P51D. It's even faster then a Bearcat at 6.3 by 45 seconds.

Edited by DaffanZ
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4 hours ago, Max__Damage said:

Allied teams are weird. Every time i see mustangs, corsairs and all sorts of p38 i cant help but think "well that could ve been a spitfire and it better would have been one too".

 

I think that la7 3b20 and i185 m71 are good planes to fight the germans at tier 4. Yak3 vk107 is another good plane. La9 is ok.

 

You should stick to these or griffon 14, bearcat, tempest. Spitfire lf9 of course.

 

You probably should stay away from p38, yak3 and yak9, evn the corsairs are controversial. A huge amount of firepower but they will lose dogfights to k4 and d9.

 

I ve played countless games and im pretty much used to getting outclimbed in my soviet planes. It doesnt matter all that much if you are skilled and help each other (in theory). Especially helps to have a good roll rate like i185 and la7, bearcat.

P-38 will out dogfight Bf 109’s and 190’s but lose to Italian planes and Ta 152H.  Yak-3 will win against everything at low speeds besides maybe expert  Ta 152H pilot.  Haven’t flown Yak-9.  Corsairs roll like 190’s and turn slightly worse than the F6F.

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4 hours ago, ArhanghelGavriil said:

It's just that allied pilots are usually bad, they do not know how to use their planes.

They are "just bad" because all the good ones were driven away from US fighters by the unfair game mechanics.

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59 minutes ago, Youda008 said:

They are "just bad" because all the good ones were driven away from US fighters by the unfair game mechanics. 

What do you mean with unfair game mechanics? Giving one side the advantage which causes far longer queue times? We had Airspawns for the P-47s which sent them 0.7-1.0 BR higher. Maybe, just maybe the good players were driven away from the Allies because they are fed up of having to carry a team always? Allies, especially the US have the most undertiered planes and yet are incapable of winning. My theory is that most RB pilots who fly Allies are mainly tankers and only grind their planes there for the groundpound ordinance.

Most times when the Allies have one or two competent pilots axis has no chance of winning.

Honestly i dont get it why people complain about the Axis when they have plenty of options to fight them but dont use them. The problem i see mostly with this game mode is that skill isnt rewarded or wanted anymore. The new maps are won by ticketbleed and are honestly badly designed. You cant win by manouvering anymore due to the removal of wing ripping. RB has many problems but the allies machinery isnt one of them.

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3 hours ago, Karatekakerlake said:

What do you mean with unfair game mechanics? Giving one side the advantage which causes far longer queue times? We had Airspawns for the P-47s which sent them 0.7-1.0 BR higher.

They were just too high, you and the devs really need to stop thinking in black&white (airspawn or groundspawn), there are solutions that would make it perfect, but they take more than 5 seconds of thinking.

 

3 hours ago, Karatekakerlake said:

Maybe, just maybe the good players were driven away from the Allies because they are fed up of having to carry a team always?

They wouldn't have to carry anyone, if the Bf-109/A7M masses would be playing Spitfires and US planes, if there they wouldn't be constantly bullied by climbing meta, overheating, weak (comparatively) Hispanos, low alt engame with fast ticket bleeds, etc

 

3 hours ago, Karatekakerlake said:

Allies, especially the US have the most undertiered planes and yet are incapable of winning.

That's your opinion. The only trully undertiered US planes are

F4U-1A, F4U-4B, P-51D-30 and maybe, just maybe P-51H-5

whereas Germany has

He-100, Bf-109F-1, Bf-109F-4, Bf-109K-4 + several airspawning troublemakers

Edited by Youda008
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17 minutes ago, Youda008 said:

They wouldn't have to carry anyone, if the Bf-109/A7M masses would be playing Spitfires and US planes, if there they wouldn't be constantly bullied by climbing meta, overheating, weak (comparatively) Hispanos, low alt engame with fast ticket bleeds, etc

Ticket bleed goes both ways. Too bad the only Axis only have built two main fighter lines which are armed with cannons. Next point about climbing meta goes also both ways same as overheating. Hispanos are maybe weak but they are on fighters that can stay on you forever so they have more time to compensate for that weakness.

27 minutes ago, Youda008 said:

He-100, Bf-109F-1, Bf-109F-4, Bf-109K-4 + several airspawning troublemakers

7,92mm MG´s missing armament, 60cannon rounds, fights P-51D-30, F-82 etc now and the K-4 is in that state because otherwise Allies would have Hokkaido 24/7. If the K-4 offends you then the LF mk.9 has to be the bane of existence. Regarding the Airspawning troublemakers dont tell me that the Do335 and 190A´s are troublemakers same as the Ta´s which are countered by griffon spits.

 

29 minutes ago, Youda008 said:

F4U-1A, F4U-4B, P-51D-30 and maybe, just maybe P-51H-5

You forgot to add to that list the P-400, P-39. P-63, P-38´s, P-47´s, P-51D-10 (mini D-30), theoretically A-36 also because its a early P-51 with airspawn and optional 10 .50s.

 

44 minutes ago, Youda008 said:

They were just too high, you and the devs really need to stop thinking in black&white (airspawn or groundspawn), there are solutions that would make it perfect, but they take more than 5 seconds of thinking.

Even if it was lower then the P-47´s still would get an even higher BR then now especially the D-28 since its a mini P-47M. I mean even before the airspawn when the P-47´s were still at 3,3/3,7 they couldnt win so it doesnt have to do with the machinery rather the pilots.

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He 100 should get the propper armament and damage model for a D version and go up to 3.0. The worse climbing P-47s (D-25 and N) should get an airspawn directly above the airfield.

Edited by Nanotyrann
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