MTom

7.7-8.0 is unplayable right now, because of the unbalanced addition of all the fast vehicles.

1 hour ago, KB_Martinsen said:

am curios here, why are you claim that it "the best" at 7.7-8.3BR?

It got good mobility fore a wheeled vehicle it got about the same 105mm cannon all other nato tanks have at this BR, it will get hurt by any thing sneeze at it having just thick enough armor to make sure APHE will trigger

 

Seriously?

It's got the best mobility

Most vehicles have 90mm at that BR and all without a stabiliser.

And the whole topic is about how unkillable these things are. There were countless videos linied showing they tank 3-4 tank shells or 2-3 ATGMs and coming out victorious.

Plus it's armour does not trigger APHE shells

Plus it cannot be ammoracked.

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9 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Being better is not synonym of needing an uptier.

How don't you see the absurdity in this statement?

 

25 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

maybe it's overall less maneuverable

Have you seen this video? 

Spoiler

 

 

AMX-10RC can be hullbroken and it's got worse armour since it's alumium and not RHA. All it have over the Centauro is APFSDS, 4.3 degrees faster turret rotation and -2 and +5 vertical guidance. All this tank is good for is sniping because it's a slow xxxx to drive and lacks stabilizer on a bouncy suspension. Yet it's still at a higher br than the Centauro even though it's much worse. 
 

37 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

A light tank with ATGM launcher, an amphibious light tank with similar ammo (and APHE) and a pure tank destroyer with a huge gun (and better ammo). The one you could compare it to is the AMX which on paper is seems pretty similar.

Here we have similiar vehicles that all fit light tank criterias and 2 of them are yet you dismay them all because they don't fit your narrative. 
 

18 minutes ago, KB_Martinsen said:

"Its new so must be OP"


Well that statement is true. Why do we still have a broken DM for the Centauro? It's been over a whole month since release of the patch, one would surely think some of these reports would've been fixed especially when they're broken. Ammo can still not explode nor can fuses detonate on it's armour, these bugs shouldn't even have made it out of devserver but they did and I wonder why.
 

 

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43 minutes ago, KB_Martinsen said:

I would say

I would say the AMX and object is closest I admit I haven't encountered the AMX enough to have a opinion on its performance but would say the object is same play style and pros/cons, I personal think that the 2 "fixes" to Cent would be ether add hullbreak to it and keep it at 7.7 or no hullbreak and 8.0.

 

But I also think that it is suffering from "Its new so must be OP" syndrome same as when the object 120 was new and people was screaming about how OP it was 1-2months later they learned to deal whit it and its not as bad as first encountered.

 The Object can be killed easily, the Centauro cannot.

If it would have hullbrake nobody would call it OP.

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3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Are you denying that with top tier vehicles it's easier to snipe? I doubt you realize what you are saying. Anyways I have ready stated that I'm not interested in high BR stuff as the grinds are too long and the fun isn't guaranteed (at least for me). I prefer sitting and playing 4.7-7.7 where I still have some fun. Seriously top tiers aren't as hard as you describe them, super fast ammo with super zooms and extremely mobile vehicles. This whine about Cent reminds me of people complaining about M1, just because players need a bit more aiming and need to watch their flanks they panic ams start complaining.

 

Are you denying context? Why can't you do well in your Leopard in comparison to your AMX-30 when both function the same in battle? Rhetorical question because the difference lies in between which tank has a far more suitable round which the AMX-30 gets right out of the box compared to every other 7.3+ tank that has to grind for HEAT-FS

 

Please, if you're going to say Top Tier isn't hard, then make it happen with your Leopard and prove me otherwise.

 

The M1 gets to fight opponents that don't even have APFSDS stock, that's a reality for every new Top Tier German tanker to which, you should know since you got some of them and your KD isn't exactly all that amazing in them. If you want to hide behind a singular perspective and say it's easy without addressing the obvious that most top tier tanks don't get rounds that's reliable enough to best another vehicle's armor like the Abrams, perhaps you shouldn't intentionally mislead on how Top Tier functions.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

The German TD's have almost all 10x, but this means nothing as I have already stated that I can easily acquire enemy distances regardless of zoom. Actually I never like that great zoom that some vehicles have as in most maps they are simply redundant.

 

You mean just the JagdTiger and Jpz 4-5 as the 6.3 and below TDs isn't exactly a common sight to even see at 7.7. That said, "Majority of Tier 4 Germany" still stands true.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Big deal, I do that too even without prrmium. But still having 1.8 after 200 battles (should be fully spaded right?) and calling it the most op vehicle.in game is hard to believe.

 

Tell me how well it's going for you in your Leopard 1 and again, I only have a stock crew on the Centauro

 

 

Performance on the battlefield with just a stock crew on the Centauro compared to an Aced crew on the STB-1 is practically night and day.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Which part of broken DM don't you understand? People who claim it needs hullbreak are just ignorants that don't know how to aim and do not understand how that mechanic works.

 

Still rich coming from someone that's yet to post any sort of clips to substantiate their claims of OHK using HEAT-FS

 

Edited by lVrizl
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49 minutes ago, KB_Martinsen said:

I personal think that the 2 "fixes" to Cent would be ether add hullbreak to it and keep it at 7.7 or no hullbreak and 8.0.

I don't know why people keep demanding it gets hullbreak. It's the problem with WT players that if something is fast it must be able to hullbreak. If you look at the difference between the Cent and all those other vehicles it is actually better armored and while those vehicles have their armor made of Aluminium (much weaker) while the Cent has RHA which is higher than the HB threshold. Saying that it needs HB just because its fast and mobile is an absurdity. 

 

4 minutes ago, MTom said:

 The Object can be killed easily, the Centauro cannot.

 

THE MODEL IS BUGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

How thick can a person get, damn.

Edited by LandKreuzer_89
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On 20/01/2019 at 09:38, KB_Martinsen said:

Considering those vehicles you mentioned are stuff there is large and will blow up if you sneeze at them I would say there is also a certain degree of player related issues here if you allow them to spawn camp you.

Centauro is bugged and OP. It won't die in 2-3 hits most of the time. 

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5 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

Ammo can still not explode nor can fuses detonate on it's armour, these bugs shouldn't even have made it out of devserver but they did and I wonder why.

I would guss there should not be any dif from AB/RB/SB here but at least in AB the German long 88, US T29/30 aphe do trigger its he explosion after penning.

And yes bugs like these seen here should been fixed before live but tbh gaijin is not very good that that leaving players to suffer for 1-2months usually.

3 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I don't know why people keep demanding it gets hullbreak. It's the problem with WT players that if something is fast it must be able to hullbreak. If you look at the difference between the Cent and all those other vehicles it is actually better armored and while those vehicles have their armor made of Aluminium (much weaker) while the Cent has RHA which is higher than the HB threshold. Saying that it needs HB just because its fast and mobile is an absurdity.

Dont get me wrong, if it was up to me I remove the whole hullbreak mechanic from the game as I find it ruins some vehicles game play but that just me.

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2 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Are you denying context? Why can't you do well in your Leopard in comparison to your AMX-30 when both function the same in battle? Rhetorical question because the difference lies in between which tank has a far more suitable round which the AMX-30 gets right out of the box compared to every other 7.3+ tank that has to grind for HEAT-FS

It's not only that but also the fact AMX gets better MM as it's lower in BR and it sits in a BR (7.3) where for the French is rather friendly. Plus my Leo has 1.5 KD despite it being 100% stock (only parts unlocked).

 

11 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Please, if you're going to say Top Tier isn't hard, then make it happen with your Leopard and prove me otherwise.

 

You will lose this bet. Once I start plying the Leo seriously with the intention to grind it properly my K/D will absolutely comparable with the rest of my vehicles.

 

13 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

The M1 gets to fight opponents that don't even have APFSDS stock, that's a reality for every new Top Tier German tanker to which,

I played the M1 less than 2 months ago, modern vehicles had been out for a very long time.

 

14 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

you should know since you got some of them and your KD isn't exactly all that amazing in them.

To what are you referring? A Leo with 32 battles and fully stock? My Panther II played 90% when it was 7.0 has almost 3 KD (not even finished spading)? Jagdtiger with 2.8 KD? Top BR is just boring as the WT maps are incredibly dumb and don't support the gameplay for those vehicles. It simply becomes a point and click battle to who shoots faster or who flanks the map border faster. BORING!

 

18 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

You mean just the JagdTiger and Jpz 4-5 as the 6.3 and below TDs isn't exactly a common sight to even see at 7.7. That said, "Majority of Tier 4 Germany" still stands true.

 

Ferdi has 9.2x, JP has 10.1x, even the 4.3-5.3's have 9.2x and I've played them quite a lot.

 

22 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Performance on the battlefield with just a stock crew on the Centauro compared to an Aced crew on the STB-1 is practically night and day.

 

I had a similar crew when I played my French or some of my Brits when they were 6.3, yet they all have pretty high stats. A good player should overcome those small handicaps.

 

25 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Still rich coming from someone that's yet to post any sort of clips to substantiate their claims of OHK using HEAT-FS

 

I have acknowledged that the DM is bugged as fuses don't set and ammo does not explode, this doesn't not mean it cannot be OHK as it absolutely can and I've done it. Why must I bring clips, because you don't believe me? I'm currently grinding the IT and don't have time, just have fun with the protection analysis in game for now.

35 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

AMX-10RC can be hullbroken and it's got worse armour since it's alumium and not RHA.

There is your answer.

 

35 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

Have you seen this video? 

A wheeled vehicle that drives slowly on snow and snow, how shocking.

 

36 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

Here we have similiar vehicles that all fit light tank criterias and 2 of them are yet you dismay them all because they don't fit your narrative. 

Look at my first post.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

You will lose this bet. Once I start plying the Leo seriously with the intention to grind it properly my K/D will absolutely comparable with the rest of my vehicles.

Do it

 

7 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I played the M1 less than 2 months ago, modern vehicles had been out for a very long time.

And new tankers to Top Tier still come in like yourself alongside new additions to top tier

 

7 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

To what are you referring? A Leo with 32 battles and fully stock? My Panther II played 90% when it was 7.0 has almost 3 KD (not even finished spading)? Jagdtiger with 2.8 KD? Top BR is just boring as the WT maps are incredibly dumb and don't support the gameplay for those vehicles. It simply becomes a point and click battle to who shoots faster or who flanks the map border faster. BORING!

 

That's the point, you're starting out with the best possible rounds stock compared to the Leopard and why I used your AMX-30. The gameplay hasn't honestly changed as it's still about point and click but Top Tier just does it faster and there's no handholding with APHE.

 

10 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Ferdi has 9.2x, JP has 10.1x, even the 4.3-5.3's have 9.2x and I've played them quite a lot.

 

Majority of Tier 4 Germany, read carefully

 

10 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I had a similar crew when I played my French or some of my Brits when they were 6.3, yet they all have pretty high stats. A good player should overcome those small handicaps.

 

Right... stabilized tanks firing APCBC that were already capable of penetrating the Tiger II's turret better than most Tier 4 tanks, tanks with drum autoloaders on fast vehicles that were also capable of penetrating a Tiger II's turret stock and even more so, completely outpace the rest of the opposition in their BR.

 

Seems to be an ongoing trend of either purposefully dismissive of the obvious advantages or blissfully ignorant to tank capability.

 

13 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I have acknowledged that the DM is bugged as fuses don't set and ammo does not explode, this doesn't not mean it cannot be OHK as it absolutely can and I've done it. Why must I bring clips, because you don't believe me? I'm currently grinding the IT and don't have time, just have fun with the protection analysis in game for now.

 

Because actual gameplay against Centauros is better proof than an otherwise static target. It's the same as saying a Sturmpanzer II can kill an Abrams with it's HE round but the actual reality of it happening is abysmally small.

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17 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

There is your answer.

What answer? It was you who said the AMX-10RC had better armour and I just proved it was wrong. 

 

17 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

A wheeled vehicle that drives slowly on snow and snow, how shocking.

It's the same on desert and grass but I guess it didn't fit your narrative so you're just going to ignore that. You said and I quote again "maybe it's overall less maneuverable". You even threw in a maybe so you question whether or not it's even overall less manouverable. The AMX-10RC is a xxxx compared to the Centauro, the difference in speed is like night and day. Why you are so adamant on defending this vehicle I just don't get.

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20 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Do it

 

And you think I will go play a stock Leo which will take me months to spade just to prove a point? No, I won't as I'm grinding for other things and I don't want to stop. Anyways just look at all my recent tanks, they all have close (or above) 3 K/D.

 

31 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

And new tankers to Top Tier still come in like yourself alongside new additions to top tier

 

This would be true if WT MM considered stock or spaded and made teams based on that. Since that's not the case the chances of meeting an enemy with stock shells at top BR is rather rare as A) the player change isn't that much frequent as player numbers aren't that big and B) top BR's is mostly where real fans of that gamestyle. Normal players (like me) don't like it and prefer lower BR's so most top BR players are mainly top BR-only players.

 

37 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Seems to be an ongoing trend of either purposefully dismissive of the obvious advantages or blissfully ignorant to tank capability.

 

What do you want me to say? That Centauro is OP?

 

39 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Because actual gameplay against Centauros is better proof than an otherwise static target.

You are playing against a vehicle that has a DM that is working improperly. Give any bad vehicle a model where it doesn't set fuses of HE shells and doesn't get ammo racked and every vehicle becomes difficult to kill.

 

29 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

That's the point, you're starting out with the best possible rounds stock compared to the Leopard and why I used your AMX-30. The gameplay hasn't honestly changed as it's still about point and click but Top Tier just does it faster and there's no handholding with APHE.

 

Well, the JP, SU and Leopard 2k all come with stock APFSDS.  

 

10 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

What answer? It was you who said the AMX-10RC had better armour and I just proved it was wrong. 

 

Then I made a slip there, I clearly stated that it was inferior in the post right after that one.

 

13 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

The AMX-10RC is a xxxx compared to the Centauro, the difference in speed is like night and day.

I tested and on the Kursk map in test drive (completely stock) it reaches 44km/h and averages 30-35 in turns. Compared to the Centauro its two front wheels are fixed so its maneuverability is reduced.

 

29 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

Why you are so adamant on defending this vehicle I just don't get.

I'm not defending the vehicle itself but rather pointing out the absurdity of saying a vehicle needs hullbreak, needs to be 8.7 or whatever because its hard to kill when the model is working badly giving it exceptional survivability. let them fix the damn thing and then we can decide.

 

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17 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

And you think I will go play a stock Leo which will take me months to spade just to prove a point? No, I won't as I'm grinding for other things and I don't want to stop. Anyways just look at all my recent tanks, they all have close (or above) 3 K/D.

 

And just like that, everything and anything more you can possibly say towards this discussion goes moot. So much for losing that bet

 

1 hour ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

You will lose this bet. Once I start plying the Leo seriously with the intention to grind it properly my K/D will absolutely comparable with the rest of my vehicles.

 

Forgot to mention:

17 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Well, the JP, SU and Leopard 2k all come with stock APFSDS.  

 

:my_precious:

 

Edited by lVrizl
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31 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

And just like that, everything and anything more you can possibly say towards this discussion goes moot. So much for losing that bet

 

Wow big deal. Seriously why are you doubting I can't achieve good stats with Leop? My K/D is already superior to yours on basically every tank we have in common, you think getting a 2 K/D on a leopard is so hard? Come on. Plus this discussion was about zooms and ammo types you were saying sniping with top BR's wasn't easier when you have a 16x zoom and shells moving at 1500m/s compared to shells moving at 800m/s with a 6x zoom, logic.

 

25 minutes ago, DramaticPooP said:

Alright Landkreuzer I can accept that. You are correct that it should be fixed before it get's any adjusted BR so we can see how it holds out.

Thank you.

Edited by LandKreuzer_89
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Just look at 8.7 tanks and compere it to Centauro. Centauro is even better than most of them. Yeah it doesn't have APFSDS but that why it have speed for flanking.

 

It was same as how people were saying Object 906 isnt OP. How they were saying it's fine for P47s to have airspawn, even one with good climb rate.

Then we had those special people who didn't have problem with penetrating IS-6 turret which had extra 300mm armor in front. But hey, i remember some were saying they have no problem penetrating with 280mm APDS haha

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25 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Wow big deal. Seriously why are you doubting I can't achieve good stats with Leop? My K/D is already superior to yours on basically every tank we have in common, you think getting a 2 K/D on a leopard is so hard? Come on. Plus this discussion was about zooms and ammo types you were saying sniping with top BR's wasn't easier when you have a 16x zoom and shells moving at 1500m/s compared to shells moving at 800m/s with a 6x zoom, logic.

 

Difference being, Leopard doesn't start off with a lolpen round that doesn't care about range or aiming at weakspots. To which, why can't you do the same for your Leopard to what you're able to do with your AMX-30? The opponents don't change drastically enough to note the difference between 7.3 or 7.7 when most of the common opponents are at 6.7 or 7.7+ today. The stock argument on your end falls apart since you grinded out the AMX-30. Or are you again, being dismissive about the advantages here?

 

Honestly, I shouldn't have to explain the obvious. Especially for those shells at 800m/s are APHE. You've taken these aspects far too lightly and you don't even realize it.

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7 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

 

Difference being, Leopard doesn't start off with a lolpen round that doesn't care about range or aiming at weakspots. To which, why can't you do the same for your Leopard to what you're able to do with your AMX-30? The opponents don't change drastically enough to note the difference between 7.3 or 7.7 when most of the common opponents are at 6.7 or 7.7+ today. The stock argument on your end falls apart since you grinded out the AMX-30. Or are you again, being dismissive about the advantages here?

I have already explained it, easier MM and easier BR were the main reasons. I decided to grind AMX because I was curios, played a few battles and liked it since the very first battles. With Leo it's different as I just don't like it too much, I don't like the fact I have to play so many battles to get it working, I don't like the gun that wobbles incredibly bad and I don't like MM where I'm almost always fighting Ger vs the world which is totally unfair. These are the reasons and not the fact I have to grind with APDS as HEAT on the AMX isn't really the best shell out there either. If you think about it AMX and Leo are quite similar so why do you doubt I can do well in it?

 

5 minutes ago, lVrizl said:

Honestly, I shouldn't have to explain the obvious. Especially for those shells at 800m/s are APHE. You've taken these aspects far too lightly and you don't even realize it.

US tanks all begin with AP, Brits same, French that don't use HEAT or APHE only use AP. As you see you're simply ignoring all this and fossilizing on the stock and APHE as if all vehicles have it which isn't true.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I decided to grind AMX because I was curios, played a few battles and liked it since the very first battles. With Leo it's different as I just don't like it too much, I don't like the fact I have to play so many battles to get it working, I don't like the gun that wobbles incredibly bad and I don't like MM where I'm almost always fighting Ger vs the world which is totally unfair.

 

A roundabout way of saying APDS sucks and AMX-30 has a significantly better round to use right out the gate. Not to mention MM is the same for Ger regardless of BR, moot point there.

 

12 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

These are the reasons and not the fact I have to grind with APDS as HEAT on the AMX isn't really the best shell out there either. If you think about it AMX and Leo are quite similar so why do you doubt I can do well in it? 

 

So play the Leopard and prove me wrong. Stop beating around the bush.

 

8 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

US tanks all begin with AP, Brits same, French that don't use HEAT or APHE only use AP. As you see you're simply ignoring all this and fossilizing on the stock and APHE as if all vehicles have it which isn't true.

 

Right... after all AP got buffed when French Tree released. Difference between ignoring like you think I'm doing is that I know what sort of shenanigans was going on prior. You're taken things for granted, same for the AMX-30, especially so since it's a unique case when it released

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1 hour ago, lVrizl said:

Not to mention MM is the same for Ger regardless of BR, moot point there.

  

Not really as FR has always SU/US/UK or GER/SU/JP on their side. Being always allied with soviets is their greatest advantage, something that GE and other nations don't have. I play 6.7-7.7 frequently and whenever I play GE I get the rest against me and when I play US or UK I get FR/SU/GE against (like most other people I think). It's a big difference.

1 hour ago, lVrizl said:

So play the Leopard and prove me wrong. Stop beating around the bush.

 

I have already motivated my refusal and will not do it for now. In the future I will play it again for sure.

 

1 hour ago, lVrizl said:

Right... after all AP got buffed when French Tree released.

I played Brits before that. Anyways I have nothing to prove, my stats are good on every tank since I started played (they are around 1.8-2.0 for my first vehicles) and with the more recent ones I average 2.5-3.0). The Leo won't be too different.

Edited by LandKreuzer_89
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4 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Doesn't matter man.

 

Just as much as saying you don't want to grind the Leopard 1 when it doesn't start off with a usable round. Something which the Centauro is also affected with alongside the STB-1. Please, it's clear you just don't want to admit how much you've been handheld and expect a vehicle to perform at it's best out of the gate with a stock round

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1 hour ago, lVrizl said:

Just as much as saying you don't want to grind the Leopard 1 when it doesn't start off with a usable round. Something which the Centauro is also affected with alongside the STB-1. Please, it's clear you just don't want to admit how much you've been handheld and expect a vehicle to perform at it's best out of the gate with a stock round

I doubt that what you are saying is true. i repeat I have grinded through many stock vehicles with bad initial shells, why would Leo be such an issue? I can say that even if Leopard started with HEAT-FS I would probably not play it either. I've said it 3-4 times now, the MM and grinding are what keep me away from high BRs, especially as Germans.

 

1 hour ago, Meo_Muri said:

Why add Fiat with 106mm gun ? That thing is fictional 

Is it now?

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