MTom

7.7-8.0 is unplayable right now, because of the unbalanced addition of all the fast vehicles.

10 hours ago, Pexitron said:

The problems is not the fast vehicules or french/italian. The problems is (Always the same) All the good "things" go to axis side. Even when soviet go to Allies US/Brits its unbalanced. Germany is perfect suited in all tier especially at T5/T6. They are fast, good relaod and good Power. Leo's variety are low Br and so powerfull with apfs-ds when you see US/Brits tank at the same Br, and so faster! All is better in axis side. Its just because of all cry about Abrams, and in US serveur the majority , of course they are Allies. In europe, even in plane, its by Far the Germany who can fight alone in a Matchmaking.

 

So bored. So tired to fall in games when its done in 2 minutes. If you valid the option (queue in already started game) you can see so crap battle. I dont know why French are go to Germany / Soviet side. By 6.7 to 9.0 Its USA/Brits VS Germany/Soviet/Italian/French so well balanced! All the crap/nerfed ammo/relaod with longueur relaod and so slow mobility. its not the IFV who change Something, we  only win when Ace battle with soviet on our side. 8/10 minmum its a pain! Go fin something good

 

 

I think the real problem is  Gaijin is so focused on pushing out new stuff and grab cash from it that they are slowly braking their game completely...the playerbase is like the third of what it was a few years ago...and because theres less player they try to milk them even more, thus the game gets more broken, more players leaving, and this goes on.

We don't need new vehicles every 2 month, and a broken tree every year, fix the problems (engine problems, physics problems), balance out the new vehicles (italians, helis and top tier in general), go back and rebalance the old ones (Chieftains in ridiculous BRs, air RB is 90% tilted to german side in props), fix the MM (ditch the +- 1.0 it is stupid)

If they can make the game enjoyable more players would come back...instead they are just focusing more and more to churn out new stuff faster and faster for a quick cashgrab.

 

I know it's a business and they need money, totally understand it, and i do have a premium account too, so i gave them money. The problem is the tech and balancing cannot keep pace with the speed they pushing out new vehicles.

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8 hours ago, lVrizl said:

If you're honestly suggesting to use APCR, APDS and especially HE on anything less than a 120mm, that's bad advice. There's a reason why using meta shells like solid shot APCBC, APHE and APFSDS shells is preferred because they work universally well in any and all situations. Using APCR is even worse off considering how poorly it performs against angled armor and the high chance of ricochet

Normally I would suggest peoples to keep using APHE even when the HE part don't trigger but as i said and keeping in mind we are talking of a 7.7-8.0BR here not all have APFSDS access and if the player deem that the APHE and HEAT shells are not working, then the alternative shell listed is a very viable option vs the new armored care and other light armor stuff you go against at that BR.

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SO that's how this battle went:

 

Leaving spawn in my Vickers drivin like 200 meters to point 1 getting shot by a Fiat car, turret broken, repair.....drive toward point 2 another 100 meters killed by an Object.

Respawn drive 200meters to point 3 get killed by a Centauro behind our spawn.

 

 

No the game is not broken at all. i could drive like 400 meters in total i should be glad.

300px-FieldsofNormandy_Domination_Map.jpg

Edited by MTom
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7 hours ago, MTom said:

Again putting the blame on the players.

 

Allied players keep pushing the bad player meme for Germans at BR's where they aren't doing too well, why can't this be a player issue? Just to understand this, you are substantially complaining about glass cannons which can be destroyed by 7.62mm MG's calling them OP and in need of a BR increase for what reason exactly?

 

7 hours ago, MTom said:

Plus they have totally unrealistic offroad abilities which needs to be addressed.

 

Proof?

 

16 hours ago, Pexitron said:

The problems is not the fast vehicules or french/italian. The problems is (Always the same) All the good "things" go to axis side. Even when soviet go to Allies US/Brits its unbalanced. Germany is perfect suited in all tier especially at T5/T6. They are fast, good relaod and good Power. Leo's variety are low Br and so powerfull with apfs-ds when you see US/Brits tank at the same Br, and so faster! All is better in axis side. Its just because of all cry about Abrams, and in US serveur the majority , of course they are Allies. In europe, even in plane, its by Far the Germany who can fight alone in a Matchmaking.

 

You clearly haven't understood anything about MM and the changes which took effect. The MM was changed when the MBT-70/KPz were released and GE/US were allied together against the soviets, after a while soveit players started complaining and obviously GJ runs in their help and puts a ban on GE/US teams from allying. Then they added the French (which are also good) and always allow it to ally with SU, this started creating imbalance for the rest but not for SU that benefited greatly as they are always paired in the best team. According to you playing GE vs the world is fair but I call bs on that as it's extremely biased and unfair (winning such battles from 6.7-7.7 is basically impossible). Plus the Germans to which you refer too as having good reload and good power is a contradiction to when you say US/UK aren't good as they are essentially using the same guns and ammo (especially US). In conclusion, these changes benefit SU/FR the most, then it depends on who allies most with them between US/UK and Germany (now with Italy the chances of allying with SU are way less).

Edited by LandKreuzer_89
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42 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Proof?

 

Well let's start with the fact they cannot roll over?

43 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Allied players keep pushing the bad player meme for Germans at BR's where they aren't doing too well, why can't this be a player issue? Just to understand this, you are substantially complaining about glass cannons which can be destroyed by 7.62mm MG's calling them OP and in need of a BR increase for what reason exactly?

 

Maybe because their armour is uneffective at any tier but their speed and gun belongs to a higher tier?

As i mentioned multiple times r3 t106 fa vs Type60 both at 6.7 neither of those have armour and have the same gun but the former is massively faster. Ergo a better vehicle ergo shouldn't be at the same BR

Centauro: laser rangefinder, speed, stabliser, and the "no armor is best armor" makes it better than 99% of the 7.7 tanks..so why is it the same BR? ANd ofc that one cant be killed with MGS (hell not even with guns. It can kill anything with one shot, but you need to be super lucky to oneshot one of these.

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9 hours ago, MTom said:

 

Again putting the blame on the players.

The little Fiat trucks could easily be 7.7 as the gun is capable of dealling even with higher BR tanks ( i know because on the japan side i get in 7.7 matches with my Type 60 and kill tanks easily) and if tge Type 60 is 6.7 with a hundred times less speed they can easily be 7.3-7.7...plus they should be able to roll over that would prevent ppl driving this idiotically. Plus they have totally unrealistic offroad abilities which needs to be addressed.

 

These are facts.

 

The Centauro again easily 8.3-8.7 material, as it can deal with everything there too, it needs it's ammo fixed, it needs eitger hullbreak or some internal parts to help spalling because so it won't tank ridiculous amount of shots.

 

Plus all wheeled vehicles need a tyre brake mechanic.

In some tanks if you hit an obstacle the tracks fall off, tgese cars pull out stunts which IRL woukd wreck the vehicle and kill the crew.

 

Not really blaming the players, its a L2P problem, The fiat trucks can be destroyed by machinegun fire for the good one and for the other 1 its RR is very slow in turning and cant fire off its left side effectively, AKA its the zoolander of AFVs. The problem your discribing is the problem of the squished BR system. As for rolling over they can, the shape however helps them to unroll, its actually a very effective shape for this with the weight low in the vehicle, meaning that centre of gravity arguably helps it to unroll, however when it rolls it "should" suffer damage to the RRs in my view. As for offroad, you say unrealistic, I say 25-30 odd HP/T ratio at extremely low weight, I have been in similar ratio vehicles over mud on farms and in the desert and I have to say they can do pretty similar stuff. The only 1 I cant comment on is heavy snow. You call it "facts" but offer no proof what so ever, those are opinions.

 

When the ammo on the centauro is fixed, it will be a vastly different game for that tank, its got great big racks in the back of the hull and turret which near consistantly get hit by incoming fire or is easy to hit at least, I suspect its survival will drop dramatically. It wont get hullbreak and as I have mentioned many times over the forum, its missing some internals, which will help detonate munitions when added (they are in the ROMOR varient for example).

 

Wheeled vehicles have a mechanic for that already, if they added a tyre break mechanic they would be double down harmed, their suspension breaks extremely easily to artillery and is fragile to local HE hits yet alone direct AP rounds making them immobile, if you add tyres to that, tanks should also have suspension systems modelled and knocked out while tracks are fine too, no?

 

 

55 minutes ago, MTom said:

 

Well let's start with the fact they cannot roll over?

 

Maybe because their armour is uneffective at any tier but their speed and gun belongs to a higher tier?

As i mentioned multiple times r3 t106 fa vs Type60 both at 6.7 neither of those have armour and have the same gun but the former is massively faster. Ergo a better vehicle ergo shouldn't be at the same BR

Centauro: laser rangefinder, speed, stabliser, and the "no armor is best armor" makes it better than 99% of the 7.7 tanks..so why is it the same BR? ANd ofc that one cant be killed with MGS (hell not even with guns. It can kill anything with one shot, but you need to be super lucky to oneshot one of these.

 

They can roll over, its not often they will, but if you actually look at the vehicle, its predispositioned to not roll over, I wouldnt be surprised if that was actually a consideration in the production of the vehicle due to the horror stories of armored cars like fox, ferret, IIRC an AML but cant confirm that having a problem of rolling and killing the turret crew when turning at decent speeds and when they dont kill them outright getting trapped upside down. Damage to the RRs should be a thing as I said though.

 

"ergo"ing a lot of vacuum there bucko, just because x is better than y doesnt mean x needs to change. We dont play 1 v 1 here.

 

I honestly am either godly at aiming or lucky then, given I have had no problems fighting the centauro in my french line while unlocking the AMX 10RC or in my US tanks at 6.7 when fighting the centauro.

 

2 hours ago, MTom said:

SO that's how this battle went:

 

Leaving spawn in my Vickers drivin like 200 meters to point 1 getting shot by a Fiat car, turret broken, repair.....drive toward point 2 another 100 meters killed by an Object.

Respawn drive 200meters to point 3 get killed by a Centauro behind our spawn.

 

Were you 1 shot or were you turret broken and repairing? Thats 2 different things for starters. I would argue the problem with that map is the design, its very unbalanced which is why I dislike it myself, its extremely easy to camp the spawns and is a problem for when fighting either a team of fast tanks or a team of super heavily armored jumbos whom can just roll forwards.

Edited by mitchverr12345
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Just the fact that they have invincible tires makes these vehicles OP. On the Centauro you have to either hit the engine, driver or transmission to stop it. All of which are hard to hit since it have so much empty space and fuses don't work on this armour.

 

On top of this Centauro is at a pretty low BR compared to it's adversaries. Name any other vehicle with similiar abilities to the Centauro which sits at 7.7.

M551 Sheridan at 8.3 is crap
Leopard 1 at 7.7 worse mobility, lacks stabilizer and laser rangefinder.
Object 906 at 8.0 worse mobility, can be hullbroken, lacks top machine gun, laser rangefinder and has a worse gun handling.
Object 120 at 7.7 worse mobility, can be hullbroken lacks top machine gun and laser rangefinder.

 

It's OP.
There aren't any vehicle at 7.7-8.3 that can be compared to the Centauro since it better in almost any way over them. At 8.7 we have vehicles that can match the Centauro but that also has APFSDS (who knows why the Chieftain Mk.5 is here.) So it could be a contender for this spot since the Cheiftain is there and I'd rather choose the Centauro over the Chieftain. But for the time they should just put it at 8.3.

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I saw such threads about M18 from German players, then complains about Pakwagen and RU251 from Allied players. As it seems people are generally incapable of coping with fast-moving flankers. Also Italian players are usually more skilled ones that know the game and maps already and are putting it to best practice.

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1 minute ago, LahvanCz said:

I saw such threads about M18 from German players, then complains about Pakwagen and RU251 from Allied players. As it seems people are generally incapable of coping with fast-moving flankers. Also Italian players are usually more skilled ones that know the game and maps already and are putting it to best practice.

No Centauro is OP. Stabilizer, great mobility, broken survivability.... There are no skills involved when the vehicle handles you so many advantages.

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3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Proof?

It affects all tanks, not only the fast ones, although they are utilizing that the most. 

 

Proof - take any vehicle, achieve top speed and then hit the huge rock. Or fall down 15 meters - nothing happens, You are good to go unless You will roll over.

 

On a user mission I've buffed Chieftain a little bit, so I was able to reach 100 kph speed. Then I hit the indestructible building. My track got yellow. To break the track by hitting I needed to get to 120 kph.

 

No bumps, rocks, obstacles are able to destroy or at least damage the vehicles, even when driving at very high speed. Not to mention that the hit I've simulated on Chieftain would kill entire crew.

Edited by Godman_82
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Just one little thing to add what everyone forgots..the Centauro with its mobility, 400mm heat , stabilizer and laser rangefinder faces 6.7-7.0 tanks many times....so yeah BR raise is a must.

Edited by MTom
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46 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

I saw such threads about M18 from German players, then complains about Pakwagen and RU251 from Allied players. As it seems people are generally incapable of coping with fast-moving flankers. Also Italian players are usually more skilled ones that know the game and maps already and are putting it to best practice.

 

People are capable...you alter your playstyle, you go carefully, look for them, spot them, shoot them....and nothing fkin happens, and they kill you.

This is what happens. Then ppl ragequit the battle and half the ally team is gone in 2 minutes.

 

Countless times i surprised a Centauro...guess who died in the end...me. Because either my shot didnt do anything, or i disabled it, but he could shoot, or i disabled his gun and he ran away to come back later.

So no this is not skill this is just abusing a broken vehizle.

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1 hour ago, mitchverr12345 said:

They can roll over, its not often they will

The small 6.7 ones? yes they can roll over and then magically get back on their wheels every time. So basically they can't

 

1 hour ago, mitchverr12345 said:

"ergo"ing a lot of vacuum there bucko, just because x is better than y doesnt mean x needs to change. We dont play 1 v 1 here.

 

Battle rating rates vehicles on their capabilities. So if a vehicle is better it should't be at the same BR.

 

 

And yes you must be extremely lucky, so you probably havent had moments like when you try to shoot a centauro from log range put 4 shots in it and nothing happens, maybe you kill one crewmember...then he hits you once and kaboom...because his round won't just sail through your tank.

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24 minutes ago, Godman_82 said:

It affects all tanks, not only the fast ones, although they are utilizing that the most. 

 

I thought he was specifically referring to the Italian tanks and their off-road ability mainly intended as in speed. As you say every wheeled (and non) has these advantages so I don't understand his post attacking only Italian wheeled vehicles.

 

2 hours ago, MTom said:

Maybe because their armour is uneffective at any tier but their speed and gun belongs to a higher tier?

 

Their guns are frequently found at those BR's as there are plenty of HEAT-FS vehicles before 7.0 and their speed is nothing extraordinary unless you are on a paved road. I mean things like RU, M56, M41 and so on can all reach over 40km/h on off-roads so the difference with the Italian wheeled vehicles isn't that much as they too average around 40-45.

 

26 minutes ago, MTom said:

400mm heat

Like plenty of the vehicles at that BR.

 

2 hours ago, MTom said:

Centauro: laser rangefinder, speed, stabliser, and the "no armor is best armor" makes it better than 99% of the 7.7 tanks..so why is it the same BR?

So what if it's better? The STB at 7.7 has been a lot better than the others for years and why hasn't it gone up then? It's the best 7.7 (which is subjective) but it's not op. Every BR has a best vehicle and it's totally normal. 

Seriously now, having a laser rangefinder is that much of an advantage? Let's be serious.

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20 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

So what if it's better? The STB at 7.7 has been a lot better than the others for years and why hasn't it gone up then? It's the best 7.7 (which is subjective) but it's not op. Every BR has a best vehicle and it's totally normal. 

 

Yes there are plenty of HEATF vehicles (but they dont have stabilizers), there are vehicles with stabilizers (but usually without HEATFS), and there are fast vehicles (but not with good suvivability)... best in everything (speed, survivability, equipment) plus broken in many ways area bit too much.

 

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i lost 10.000 SL last game, and 7.000SL the game before that.

just 7.7 russian things.

17 minutes ago, MTom said:

 

Yes there are plenty of HEATF vehicles (but they dont have stabilizers), there are vehicles with stabilizers (but usually without HEATFS), and there are fast vehicles (but not with good suvivability)... best in everything (speed, survivability, equipment) plus broken in many ways area bit too much.

 

russia only has one CHEATFS platform at 7.7, the T54 1951, meanwhile everyone else gets stabilizers, good mobility, good turret rotation and invincibility to conventional shells

 

also, best armor is no armor; since APHE shells wont detonate when they just go straight through taking out something useless in the process like commander or machine gunner, or just breaking the transmission in a centauro and the centauro not hull breaking

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52 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

So what if it's better? The STB at 7.7 has been a lot better than the others for years and why hasn't it gone up then? It's the best 7.7 (which is subjective) but it's not op. Every BR has a best vehicle and it's totally normal. 

Seriously now, having a laser rangefinder is that much of an advantage? Let's be serious.

the problem is, STB is killable; the centauro is not.

if you shoot the centauro's turret, there are 2 things that could happen: the centauro just runs away or your shell does no damage, he turns around and kills you, if you shoot the driver; again there are 2 things that could happen: he'll turn around and kill you or your shell won't do any damage, he'll turn around again and kill you. So you either have to have 2 players coordinating to take it out or you have to have a BMP and fast reaction skills.

also yes; having a laser rangefinder makes your camping spot even more one sided. even if its not that effective, it still adds to the countless reasons the centauro should be at a higher BR.

Edited by Graxum
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5 hours ago, MTom said:

SO that's how this battle went:

 

Leaving spawn in my Vickers drivin like 200 meters to point 1 getting shot by a Fiat car, turret broken, repair.....drive toward point 2 another 100 meters killed by an Object.

Respawn drive 200meters to point 3 get killed by a Centauro behind our spawn.

 

 

No the game is not broken at all. i could drive like 400 meters in total i should be glad.

300px-FieldsofNormandy_Domination_Map.jpg

similar thing happened to me, BMP1, top right spawn, halfway towards C, two centauros gank us. 2 M103s come with me, we repel the centauros, we cap C, everyone dies, the two centauros come back from A and kill us off.

 

oh and also B and A were in the enemies' hands the entire time.

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1 hour ago, Graxum said:

everyone else gets stabilizers, good mobility, good turret rotation and invincibility to conventional shells

 

Not the Americans, at least in the Patton line...

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1 hour ago, Graxum said:

the centauro just runs away or your shell does no damage, he turns around and kills you, if you shoot the driver; again there are 2 things that could happen: he'll turn around and kill you or your shell won't do any damage, he'll turn around again and kill you

This is basically what happens for every other vehicle in game, why should it be different on a Centauro? At higher BR's where turret rotation is fast and vehicles are generally more mobile failing a shot is almost always fatal as it can get you killed. It happens many times that I shoot an enemy T-54 with HEAT-FS and the damage is eaten by the fuel tank or the driver and he shoots back, shoot an OBj on the gun to get hullbreak and it does nothing, shoot an M60 center mass and all damage is absorbed by driver. The Centauro if hit on the turret has a good chance of running away but i don't see an issue with that, the driver is sitting rather far away and it's a lot more spacious and larger than an average MBT. I think the issue is that most players expected to point and click Centauros but remained disappointed when they found it to be more resilient than expected. Anyways, there are some acknowledged issues with the ammo not exploding when hit and its armor that doesn't set fuses of HE ammo, once those are fixed it will be a lot easier to destroy so it can easily stay at 7.7.

 

1 hour ago, MTom said:

best in everything (speed, survivability, equipment) plus broken in many ways area bit too much.

Fix the issues it has and it's a 7.7 vehicle. What is making it so special now is the things I explained in the last sentence on the post above this one.

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2 hours ago, MTom said:

Countless times i surprised a Centauro...guess who died in the end...me. Because either my shot didnt do anything, or i disabled it, but he could shoot, or i disabled his gun and he ran away to come back later.

What does this remind me of? Abrams anyone? :) Have you tried HESH? 

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2 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I thought he was specifically referring to the Italian tanks and their off-road ability mainly intended as in speed. As you say every wheeled (and non) has these advantages so I don't understand his post attacking only Italian wheeled vehicles.

 

He's referring that the Italian vehicles use this more than anyone else. There's a significant distinction between that. It's like everyone has access to APHE, but Russia uses them more than others.

 

2 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Their guns are frequently found at those BR's as there are plenty of HEAT-FS vehicles before 7.0 and their speed is nothing extraordinary unless you are on a paved road. I mean things like RU, M56, M41 and so on can all reach over 40km/h on off-roads so the difference with the Italian wheeled vehicles isn't that much as they too average around 40-45.

 

 

Except their guns are not stabilized, the Centauro is not hull breakable, it can actually reverse and it's not limited to being a premium vehicle. Should also mention that they're much more capable snipers as well since they actually have 12x optics.

 

Of course, how can I forget, the Centauro's HEAT-FS is substantially stronger than the 90mm HEAT-FS in post-penetration.

 

2 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Like plenty of the vehicles at that BR.

 

Plenty of vehicles don't have stabilizers, the speed nor the survivability of the Centauro. Even without the stabilizer, the actual gun handling characteristics is superior to other tanks, especially to a tank like the STB-1, allowing the Centauro to engage at any targets at different elevations quicker. Even the OF-40 is inferior to the Centauro until the Mk.2A

 

2 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

So what if it's better? The STB at 7.7 has been a lot better than the others for years and why hasn't it gone up then? It's the best 7.7 (which is subjective) but it's not op. Every BR has a best vehicle and it's totally normal. 

Seriously now, having a laser rangefinder is that much of an advantage? Let's be serious.

 

Blatantly disregarding the advantages the Centauro has. Great.

 

STB-1 had gotten nerfed for its armor on both UFP and it's turret mantlet. It can't take shots as well as it used to compared to when it first came out in the tail end of 2016. Not only that, but it's got the slowest RoF for a L7 105mm tank coming in at 8.3s Aced reload compared to the Type 74 with 6.7s Aced reload. The STB-1 is comparable to the T-54's reload of 8.5s Aced reload

 

Learn the difference between a vehicle that's significantly advantageous over others to being "Competitive" to which, the STB-1 certainly is in it's own right.

 

Also yes, having a laser rangefinder is an extreme advantage since it disregards the crewmember skill of "Rangefinding" alongside the typical "rangefinder" module by allowing the module itself make accurate readings out to even 4km. I don't expect you to get the nuance of it considering how little Tier 6 you've played outside of the Abrams

 

Besides, I very much doubt the STB-1 can take a 120mm AP shell to the turret with grace like the Centauro can

 

Edited by lVrizl
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22 minutes ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

This is basically what happens for every other vehicle in game, why should it be different on a Centauro? At higher BR's where turret rotation is fast and vehicles are generally more mobile failing a shot is almost always fatal as it can get you killed. It happens many times that I shoot an enemy T-54 with HEAT-FS and the damage is eaten by the fuel tank or the driver and he shoots back, shoot an OBj on the gun to get hullbreak and it does nothing, shoot an M60 center mass and all damage is absorbed by driver. The Centauro if hit on the turret has a good chance of running away but i don't see an issue with that, the driver is sitting rather far away and it's a lot more spacious and larger than an average MBT. I think the issue is that most players expected to point and click Centauros but remained disappointed when they found it to be more resilient than expected. Anyways, there are some acknowledged issues with the ammo not exploding when hit and its armor that doesn't set fuses of HE ammo, once those are fixed it will be a lot easier to destroy so it can easily stay at 7.7.

 

Fix the issues it has and it's a 7.7 vehicle. What is making it so special now is the things I explained in the last sentence on the post above this one.

 

Even if they fix ammo racks, have the fuses triggered by the armour and the invincible tires it's still better than anything at 7.7 and even 8.3. Name me one vehicle that has a better overall performance at that rating.

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2 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I thought he was specifically referring to the Italian tanks and their off-road ability mainly intended as in speed. As you say every wheeled (and non) has these advantages so I don't understand his post attacking only Italian wheeled vehicles.

Well, definitely fast cars/tanks can take full advantage of that, by insane driving through rough terrain, even rocks. But Italian light vehicles are not having more advantage than Hellcats, for instance.

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