MTom

7.7-8.0 is unplayable right now, because of the unbalanced addition of all the fast vehicles.

Just try to play the US 7.7-8.0 guys.

If there are no italian and/or french tanks the battles are good. But when these are in the battles are reduced to a fkin spawncamp fest 2 mins into the battle, because the AMX10/Centauro/AUBL already picking off tanks who just left the spawn, then they are just spawncamping.

 

Before all you start to say the usual BS "look" for them" "cover the flanks" etc. If we do that the rest of the enemy team takes all the caps, and/or taking over the whole map, and key positins...not to say after we killed these troll crap cars they will come back in a plane and bomb us finally trying to push on.

Edited by MTom
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34 minutes ago, MTom said:

Just try to play the US 7.7-8.0 guys.

If there are no italian and/or french tanks the battles are good. But when these are in the battles are reduced to a fkin spawncamp fest 2 mins into the battle, because the AMX10/Centauro/AUBL already picking off tanks who just left the spawn, then they are just spawncamping.

 

Before all you start to say the usual BS "look" for them" "cover the flanks" etc. If we do that the rest of the enemy team takes all the caps, and/or taking over the whole map, and key positins...not to say after we killed these troll crap cars they will come back in a plane and bomb us finally trying to push on.

AMX 10RC mobility is actually underperforming due to buggy gear ratios especially in first and fourth gears, also they are not stabilized and are hullbreakable like nothing else. It is true that they are still much more mobile than the standard medium tank at that BR but it's the only thing it has going for it with also a great gun and ammo. However usually AMX 10RC players wont rush straight in because they do not have a stabilizer not the BS survivability of the Centauro which is the real cancer of this bracket. Hopefully it gets uptiered to 8.3. AMX 10RC at 8.0 is painful to play mostly due to it's horrendous handling which once fixed will make it a very balanced vehicle at 8.0

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That's because no armor is best armor. Little or no armor won't fuse APHE and you don't have to carry the weight around, which makes you faster.

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well, i would not blame it all on the vehicles, i would blame most of it on poor map designs that allows spawncamping from 1-3km away.

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1 hour ago, KB_Martinsen said:

Considering those vehicles you mentioned are stuff there is large and will blow up if you sneeze at them I would say there is also a certain degree of player related issues here if you allow them to spawn camp you.

 

Yeah because it works like that..not like spawncampers hide in a spot and shoot you first right? And the Centauro which can eat 3x90mm HEATFS and shrug them off.

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20 minutes ago, MTom said:

 

Yeah because it works like that..not like spawncampers hide in a spot and shoot you first right? And the Centauro which can eat 3x90mm HEATFS and shrug them off.

Map awareness and shoot it whit just about anything non heat shells as HEAT is pretty bad atm, tbh a Centauro is one of the easier enemy's to deal whit in a spawn camp case if it was some thing lobbing atgms over hills while not exposing it self then you might have a prob or something well armored sitting at ranges like an IS-7.

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13 hours ago, KB_Martinsen said:

Map awareness and shoot it whit just about anything non heat shells as HEAT is pretty bad atm, tbh a Centauro is one of the easier enemy's to deal whit in a spawn camp case if it was some thing lobbing atgms over hills while not exposing it self then you might have a prob or something well armored sitting at ranges like an IS-7.

 

Well you are wrong...the Centauro is the hardest to kill them all. Shoot the body it shoots back, shoot the turret, it will smoke and run away, shoot it with anything not HEAT...yeah..too bad it cannot be ammoracked, and for some reason the APHE shells don't activate on it either.

Btw the whole italian tree is broken AF and have wrong BRs across the board, but Gaijin won't do anything until they can milk the cash from it...ppl will pay to grind it quickly and use the broken OP vehicles.

The small cars at 6.7 are much faster than many enemies with more HP/ton ratio, and they cannot roll over (seriously what the F is this gaijin?) so they drive arond like crazy. They have the same BR as the japanese Type 60 which hase the same recoilles gun...just 1/10 of the speed and even less armour.

The Centauro is as i said above is really hard to kill, it's idioticly fast, cannot be ammoracked, no hullbrake either etc.

 

As someone else saidin the Centauro topis, and this basically sums it up, no other word needed:

 

" Why on earth would you play a leopard or OF 40 or magach 3 or even T54 when you have a tank at the same or lower BR with just as good/better a gun, a laser rangefinder, a STABILIZER?!?!?!?!??, infinitely better mobility, oh and better survivability because of reasons before like not setting off fuses, ammo racks that act like fuel tanks, and no spalling. "

Edited by MTom
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Firstly, the fact you are complaining about the AMX 10 made me giggle, I dont think many people consider it that good right now, given its buggyness in mobility (do I have to get the video? Imma go get the video).

 

 

 

Now for other points,

 

You see the enemy team has the vehicles and I am very much of the camp those whom complain about them dont prepare for them, I personally have no complaints about them myself because I always look to see if they are in my game, if they are, I plan accordingly, know thy enemy, know thyself.

 

If spawncamping, on many maps they will show up on the little minimap, it also helps if the team actually use comms and tell each other its happening, this is a team issue, many tanks spawncamp in the game, I see pleeeeeenty of T54s trying to do this too lol.

 

And it isnt "bs", look for them and covering each other wins games, going barreling down the road loses them, you can do this while taking cap zones, it isnt that hard to do. Also the Centauro stab is pretty bad, it rarely is helpful on the move for me at least, if I want to fire accurately I still need to stop, to me its stab in name only, it acts much like amx 30s when moving.

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1 hour ago, mitchverr12345 said:

Firstly, the fact you are complaining about the AMX 10 made me giggle, I dont think many people consider it that good right now, given its buggyness in mobility (do I have to get the video? Imma go get the video).

 

 

 

Now for other points,

 

You see the enemy team has the vehicles and I am very much of the camp those whom complain about them dont prepare for them, I personally have no complaints about them myself because I always look to see if they are in my game, if they are, I plan accordingly, know thy enemy, know thyself.

 

If spawncamping, on many maps they will show up on the little minimap, it also helps if the team actually use comms and tell each other its happening, this is a team issue, many tanks spawncamp in the game, I see pleeeeeenty of T54s trying to do this too lol.

 

And it isnt "bs", look for them and covering each other wins games, going barreling down the road loses them, you can do this while taking cap zones, it isnt that hard to do. Also the Centauro stab is pretty bad, it rarely is helpful on the move for me at least, if I want to fire accurately I still need to stop, to me its stab in name only, it acts much like amx 30s when moving.

 

Mhm how do you plan accordingly when you move 300 from your spawn and they shoot you in the back?

And yes looking for them calling them out, and while 3-4 tanks from our team try to hunt them down the enemy is free to move on. Honestly these are just barely better addition than helicopters..both braking the game for the ones who want to play tanks, and both are reducing the game to borderline stupid running around.

 

And yes many vehicles try spawncsamping but not 2 minutes in the battle..

finally everyone knows the Centauro is broken in it's current state...defending it is kinda....foolish so to say

 

Edited by MTom
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haven't seen all that much centauro's apart from one match in which I blapped four of them in the Bradley in a rather short timespan

 

I do agree that the thing has no business being at 7.7, it's basically a faster, less armoured (but more survivable due to lack of hullbreak and the non-fusing of APHE) wheeled M60A1 (AOS)

 

meanwhile the OOF-40 with no stab is 8.0 despite basically being a more boxy leopard 1 :dntknw:

 

i'd say that 7.7 and 8.0 are suffering more because of the constant uptier to 8.7 where germany dominates at levels similar to US 10.0, it doesn't help that the US has no 8.7's at all (can we finally have the RISE at 8.7?) or that Italy is pretty much always on the german side so you end up fighting A1A1's, L44's, TAM's and centauro's in your non-stabilized 7.7's or 8.0's or stabilized but slow reloading Russian tanks and the starship+sheridan.

 

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12 minutes ago, MTom said:

 

Mhm how do you plan accordingly when you move 300 from your spawn and they shoot you in the back?

And yes looking for them calling them out, and while 3-4 tanks from our team try to hunt them down the enemy is free to move on. Honestly these are just barely better addition than helicopters..both braking the game for the ones who want to play tanks, and both are reducing the game to borderline stupid running around.

 

And yes many vehicles try spawncsamping but not 2 minutes in the battle..

finally everyone knows the Centauro is broken in it's current state...defending it is kinda....foolish so to say

 

 

 

Other tanks do this too, and if 1 light vehicle is using its mobility to drag the enemy out of position, its doing a textbook tactic of drawing the enemy out of position. It is different for every map, but when I play on a side with italians, I see people completely ignore the obvious roads which would be used, when I play on the side against Italians, I again see people ignoring the map design consistantly while I will happily move to engage and block the light vehicles myself a lot of the time (only failing if theres 4-5 enemy tanks doing it which is rare).

 

2 min in spawn camping is easy to stop, you look at the teams, see a team known for it at that BR, look at the map, see the obvious route, position to ambush them, they are not going to do it, the openning 5-10min of a battle often doesnt decide who wins unless 1 side is going to be wiped out, spawncamped or not.

 

The issue is the spawncamping issue in general, not so much the vehicles themselves, or would you rather gaijin simply never add a vehicle to the game which has mobility higher than chieftain?

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AMX10-RC is nowhere near "fast"... As soon as you start turning it goes to 1st gear. It can't climb anywhere near what it can IRL AND it gets a hull break.

However, if this thing stays at 8.0 then the Centauro deserves to be AT LEAST at 8.3 and add hull break.

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9 hours ago, MTom said:

Well you are wrong...the Centauro is the hardest to kill them all. Shoot the body it shoots back, shoot the turret, it will smoke and run away, shoot it with anything not HEAT...yeah..too bad it cannot be ammoracked, and for some reason the APHE shells don't activate on it either.

Btw the whole italian tree is broken AF and have wrong BRs across the board, but Gaijin won't do anything until they can milk the cash from it...ppl will pay to grind it quickly and use the broken OP vehicles.

The small cars at 6.7 are much faster than many enemies with more HP/ton ratio, and they cannot roll over (seriously what the F is this gaijin?) so they drive arond like crazy. They have the same BR as the japanese Type 60 which hase the same recoilles gun...just 1/10 of the speed and even less armour.

The Centauro is as i said above is really hard to kill, it's idioticly fast, cannot be ammoracked, no hullbrake either etc.

You don't really need the HE in aphe to trigger to kill it, they work excellent as solid shots like any other ap shell(whit no he) I agree that its a bit too low and it should be at 8.0 or 8.3 at most and could be hullbroken, but it is quite easy to kill in all regards, same as when peoples complaining about most other non armored big cannon type vehicle in game.

oh and its most certainly can be ammoracked.

Edited by KB_Martinsen
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21 hours ago, KB_Martinsen said:

You don't really need the HE in aphe to trigger to kill it, they work excellent as solid shots like any other ap shell(whit no he)

APHE shells have lot worse damage from penetration than AP rounds, they are still using that old terrible damage model used by AP rounds in the past (before AP buff). So in theory, they are not working as AP when HE is not triggered. 

 

That doesn't mean You can't play well with them, but they are definitely not as good as AP, when HE is not working.

100 mm AP shell going through 100 mm of armor and having 50 mm residual pen left will produce 1764 points of damage (in 145 fragments). APHE, in the same conditions - 335 damage in 47 fragments.

 

100 grams of filler in such round will create 3905 damage in 350 fragments.

 

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The problems is not the fast vehicules or french/italian. The problems is (Always the same) All the good "things" go to axis side. Even when soviet go to Allies US/Brits its unbalanced. Germany is perfect suited in all tier especially at T5/T6. They are fast, good relaod and good Power. Leo's variety are low Br and so powerfull with apfs-ds when you see US/Brits tank at the same Br, and so faster! All is better in axis side. Its just because of all cry about Abrams, and in US serveur the majority , of course they are Allies. In europe, even in plane, its by Far the Germany who can fight alone in a Matchmaking.

 

So bored. So tired to fall in games when its done in 2 minutes. If you valid the option (queue in already started game) you can see so crap battle. I dont know why French are go to Germany / Soviet side. By 6.7 to 9.0 Its USA/Brits VS Germany/Soviet/Italian/French so well balanced! All the crap/nerfed ammo/relaod with longueur relaod and so slow mobility. its not the IFV who change Something, we  only win when Ace battle with soviet on our side. 8/10 minmum its a pain! Go fin something good

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4 hours ago, Godman_82 said:

APHE shells have lot worse damage from penetration than AP rounds, they are still using that old terrible damage model used by AP rounds in the past (before AP buff). So in theory, they are not working as AP when HE is not triggered. 

 

That doesn't mean You can't play well with them, but they are definitely not as good as AP, when HE is not working

Agree that they are less efficient, but as I was trying to get at, they are still gonna kill crew when they hit them or blow ammo and if that is still too hard fore some, if nothing else it might be a good way to learn to use something some of the tanks non meta shells(like APCR,APDS,HE ect) there will all do a fine job craking those "no armor" vehicles out at that BR.

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1 hour ago, KB_Martinsen said:

Agree that they are less efficient, but as I was trying to get at, they are still gonna kill crew when they hit them or blow ammo and if that is still too hard fore some, if nothing else it might be a good way to learn to use something some of the tanks non meta shells(like APCR,APDS,HE ect) there will all do a fine job craking those "no armor" vehicles out at that BR.

 

If you're honestly suggesting to use APCR, APDS and especially HE on anything less than a 120mm, that's bad advice. There's a reason why using meta shells like solid shot APCBC, APHE and APFSDS shells is preferred because they work universally well in any and all situations. Using APCR is even worse off considering how poorly it performs against angled armor and the high chance of ricochet

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On 20/01/2019 at 09:56, mitchverr12345 said:

 

 

Other tanks do this too, and if 1 light vehicle is using its mobility to drag the enemy out of position, its doing a textbook tactic of drawing the enemy out of position. It is different for every map, but when I play on a side with italians, I see people completely ignore the obvious roads which would be used, when I play on the side against Italians, I again see people ignoring the map design consistantly while I will happily move to engage and block the light vehicles myself a lot of the time (only failing if theres 4-5 enemy tanks doing it which is rare).

 

2 min in spawn camping is easy to stop, you look at the teams, see a team known for it at that BR, look at the map, see the obvious route, position to ambush them, they are not going to do it, the openning 5-10min of a battle often doesnt decide who wins unless 1 side is going to be wiped out, spawncamped or not.

 

The issue is the spawncamping issue in general, not so much the vehicles themselves, or would you rather gaijin simply never add a vehicle to the game which has mobility higher than chieftain?

BS dude.  That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.  "See the obvious route, position to ambush them."  BS.  Problem is, they are so fast, they get there First. AND, there are often 2 or 3 of them.  Ive been in of battles going against SEVERAL of these damn things on the other team at once. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Patton1945_1 said:

BS dude.  That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.  "See the obvious route, position to ambush them."  BS.  Problem is, they are so fast, they get there First. AND, there are often 2 or 3 of them.  Ive been in of battles going against SEVERAL of these damn things on the other team at once. 

 

 

Then tell your friends in your team that you will need a guy to come with for the first short time? (i know, teamwork, dirty stuff)  If the enemy get there first, you dont know your own vehicles capability. If your vehicle isnt fast, dont go setup half way down the map lol, setup where you have enough time to get to the location, I generally have had little issue fighitng them outside the problem of ammo not exploding for the centauro which will hopefully be fixed and when fixed I will have no problem at all stopping flankers.

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2 hours ago, mitchverr12345 said:

 

Then tell your friends in your team that you will need a guy to come with for the first short time? (i know, teamwork, dirty stuff)  If the enemy get there first, you dont know your own vehicles capability. If your vehicle isnt fast, dont go setup half way down the map lol, setup where you have enough time to get to the location, I generally have had little issue fighitng them outside the problem of ammo not exploding for the centauro which will hopefully be fixed and when fixed I will have no problem at all stopping flankers.

 

Again putting the blame on the players.

The little Fiat trucks could easily be 7.7 as the gun is capable of dealling even with higher BR tanks ( i know because on the japan side i get in 7.7 matches with my Type 60 and kill tanks easily) and if tge Type 60 is 6.7 with a hundred times less speed they can easily be 7.3-7.7...plus they should be able to roll over that would prevent ppl driving this idiotically. Plus they have totally unrealistic offroad abilities which needs to be addressed.

 

These are facts.

 

The Centauro again easily 8.3-8.7 material, as it can deal with everything there too, it needs it's ammo fixed, it needs eitger hullbreak or some internal parts to help spalling because so it won't tank ridiculous amount of shots.

 

Plus all wheeled vehicles need a tyre brake mechanic.

In some tanks if you hit an obstacle the tracks fall off, tgese cars pull out stunts which IRL woukd wreck the vehicle and kill the crew.

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8 hours ago, Pexitron said:

The problems is not the fast vehicules or french/italian. The problems is (Always the same) All the good "things" go to axis side. Even when soviet go to Allies US/Brits its unbalanced. Germany is perfect suited in all tier especially at T5/T6. They are fast, good relaod and good Power. Leo's variety are low Br and so powerfull with apfs-ds when you see US/Brits tank at the same Br, and so faster! All is better in axis side. Its just because of all cry about Abrams, and in US serveur the majority , of course they are Allies. In europe, even in plane, its by Far the Germany who can fight alone in a Matchmaking.

 

So bored. So tired to fall in games when its done in 2 minutes. If you valid the option (queue in already started game) you can see so crap battle. I dont know why French are go to Germany / Soviet side. By 6.7 to 9.0 Its USA/Brits VS Germany/Soviet/Italian/French so well balanced! All the crap/nerfed ammo/relaod with longueur relaod and so slow mobility. its not the IFV who change Something, we  only win when Ace battle with soviet on our side. 8/10 minmum its a pain! Go fin something good

 

Exactly.  This, all day long

 

Surely it's time to remove the locks on 'Germany must not side with US' and 'UK must side with US'.  For the sake of sanity let's have a few more interesting match ups.  Europe vs Russia, Europe vs US, Britain/Germany vs US/Russia.  Some would be difficult, some wouldn't work but at least it would be different than the current "Whoever gets the Russians wins" nonsense we have now.

 

Last night I played Tier 2 French vs Italians (OK), but on the same side as the Germans (:008:).  It hurt my eyes.  Some nod to a possible reality would be great if it could be implemented differently across the different timespans.  And how come the Italians late war are never sided with US/UK? Have some fun with it, make them switch mid-battle.

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