Fiat AB 611  

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  1. 1. Do you want this vehicle in the game?

    • Yes, as a regular vehicle.
      73
    • Yes, as a premium vehicle.
      4
    • Yes, as an event vehicle.
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    • No thanks.
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The Fiat AB 611 was a six-wheeled armored car entering service with the Italian Army in 1933, designed for colonial army and policing duties.  It was based on the chassis of the Fiat dovunque 32 truck.  The rear four wheels were powered while the front two were unpowered and used for steering.  Protection was provided by 10mm steel plates riveted to the vehicles on all sides and a 15mm plate as the front of the hand-cranked turret.  Two variants existed, one mounting a turret with two 6.5mm machine guns and one with a turret-mounted 37mm Vickers-Terni cannon (present in-game as the main gun of the Carro Armato M11/39 tank). Cannon-armed vehicles also mounted two machine guns, one in the rear of the turret and one in the rear hull.  The machine guns were replaced with 7.7mm Lewis guns on some vehicles later.  The vehicle had a crew of five; two drivers, one forward and one facing the rear, a gunner, a commander, and a dedicated mechanic.  Both drivers had a full set of controls and the vehicle was designed to be able to drive in full speed in both the forward and reverse directions, intended to help the vehicle escape in case of an ambush.  This feature would later be retained on the AB40 series of armored cars.  The AB 611 was not a successful design overall, suffering from an underpowered engine and poorly-arranged weapons that gave the vehicle large blind spots for infantry attacks to exploit.  

 

Fiat AB 611 armored cars were sent to Italian-conquered Ethiopia and saw action in the East African theater of WWII.  The distance from the Italian mainland, lack of spare parts, and overall obsolescence of the vehicles caused them to be of limited effectiveness.  

 

I think that the cannon-armed AB 611 would make for an excellent 1.0 start to the Italian armored cars line!  It has an effective anti-tank cannon (as shown on the M11/39 tank) in a fully-rotating turret and is completely covered in armor plates that protect the crew from small arms fire.  Although the armor will not stop tank shells or heavy machine guns and the vehicle is rather slow I believe it would complement the M13/40 tanks well.

 

Thanks to Taffu92 for helping with research!  :salute:

 

Specifications:  

Length:  5.6m

Width:  2m

Height:  2.6m

Weight:  6 tons

Engine:  FIAT 122 B 4-cylinder water-cooled gasoline engine, 46 hp

Speed:  43 kmh (27 mph) road, 9 kmh (5.6 mph) offroad.  The vehicle can drive as fast in reverse as forwards.  

Crew:  5 (Driver, "Mechanic-Servant", Gunner, Commander, Rear Driver/Machine Gunner)

Armor:  10mm riveted steel plates (body), 15mm (turret front), 10mm (turret sides and rear)

Armament:  One 37mm Vickers-Terni 37/40 mod.30 cannon (72 rounds), two 6.5mm Breda mod.5C machine guns or 7.7mm Lewis guns (one in rear of turret, one in rear hull, 5,160 rounds total)

Number Built:  46

 

Images:  

Spoiler

Fiat_611_cannone.jpg

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AB611-01.wwii.jpg

AB611-03.Tanks.jpg

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Board-1.jpg

Board-2.jpg

Board-3.jpg

DSC_0005-28.jpg

 

Sources:  

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_611_(autoblindo) 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/Fiat_AB-611.php 

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/2-Italy/08-ArmoredCars/AB-611/File/Fiat-AB611.htm 

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/italy/vehicle/armored-cars/ab-611-armored-car.asp 

https://www.secondeguerre.net/articles/vehicules/it/ar/ve_fiatab611.html 

Edited by Milocat
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35 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Can this thing get better shell than M11/39?

 

I don't think it can, but I couldn't tell you for sure.

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Hi @Milocat,

I'll add what I found about the AB 611.

 

All the information that I gathered here are from:

Nicola Pignato “A century of Italian armored cars”

Nicola Pignato, Filippo Cappellano “Gli autoveicoli da combattimento dell’esercito italiano” Vol1

 

ENGINE and ARMOR:

The engine was a Fiat 122B , 6 cylinders, water cooled with 46Hp at 2000 rpm.

This engine, albeit weak, was still able to move the 6 tons of the 611  ,when fully loaded, at around 43Km/h on roads and 9Km/h on rough terrain ( 5,5t for the all machine gun version).

The machine was also able to be equipped with tracks on the back wheels to improve its performance on rough terrains, these tracks, when not used, were stored on the back sides of the machine.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any note on how much the installation of those tracks could have improved the speed of the machine on rough terrain, but here’s some images of them (the last image is the 611 coloniale, the truck that served as base for the armored car, and shows how they looked when equipped):

Spoiler
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Inkedcingoli2_LI.jpg.5eeaa121d9ea55fe726
Fiat_611_C_portee_cingoli.thumb.jpg.366c

 

From a report on the effectiveness of English guns on Italian armored cars, now stored in the library of the R.A.C Bovington tank museum, we know that the armor of the hull was 10mm all around, except for the radiator covers, the engine cover and the additional back wheels cover that were around 6mm.

This made the 611 able to withstand 7.7 gun fire from any angle, but , when they tested its effectiveness against the 13.9mm round of the Boys anti-tank rifle, they were able to punch right through it with ease, only having some problems were the 6mm protection of the wheels and the hull 10mm overlapped.

 

The turret was, instead, a bit more armored, with 15mm on the front and 10mm on every other side, while the bottom of the machine was only 4mm thick.

 

INTERNAL CONFIGURATION, CREW and AMMO:

 

One of the major flaws and strong point of this machine was its huge size.

 With a length of 5.6m, a width of 2m and a height of 2.56m (on the cannon version) the machine was easily spotted, but also quite comfortable for the 4 crewmembers that operated it: 2 drivers, a commander-gunner and a loader-machine gunner.  (There are notes of a 5th optional member that is the back machine-gunner, but his presence, as standard layout, was not crucial. We’ll see what they decide)

 

Here is the internal configuration of the MG version, you can notice the turret rotation mechanism (it was hand cranked, same as the cannon version), the metal holders on the bottom that were used to attach the seats for the commander and loader during travel and all the ammunition boxes for the 12.600 rounds of the 6.5 Breda that the machine carried:

Spoiler

Interno.thumb.JPG.470ff0388656d3f732c8e3

 

For the cannon version only the tall boxes remained and were moved a bit more in the back. The ammunition loadout also changed and the machine was able to carry around “only” 5160 rounds of 6.5mm and 72 rounds of 37mm.

Here I’ll add the internal layout of the cannon version, for non Italian readers I’ll add a translation right below the picture:

Spoiler

disposizione.thumb.JPG.dcdfd3a7925f7c02d

 

number's legend:

 

1) Main fuel tank

2) Auxiliary fuel tank

3) Driver's seat

4) Commander/Gunner's seat

5) Loader's seat (both were removed during combat)

6) Second driver seat

7) Back gunner seat

8) Ammo boxes for 6.5 cal machinegun (later modified to store Lewis machinegun's rounds)

9) Ammo boxes for the 37mm cannon rounds, stored in small cases, initially semi-AP, then all AP after 1931

10) Grenade storage box

11) Entry door

12) Emergency exit door

13) Battery pack

 

A note for the gun:

From the notes of Gastone Camuri we know that the 37mm cannon, while being quite effective, didn’t have any sort of optical sight, only some old rifle-like aimer, that was also positioned on a small window, 1m away from the commander/gunner.

 

ILLUSTRATIONS:

Spoiler

Tavole.thumb.JPG.27687d336614a867c45460a

 

FINAL NOTES:

As you said in your original post, the only way I can see this iconic Italian armored car in game is as a 1.0 machine or, like the French AMD.35, as a reserve.

As an armored car fan I would love to see the 611 in game, but, as a player, I’m a bit conflicted.

Survivability wise, if they implement it with the 5 crewmembers, it should be pretty good, being it quite spacious inside.

Speed wise, if they added its half-track version in game the off-road speed should be a bit better (don’t know how much though) but it still be quite slow for such a big machine.

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16 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

@Taffu92 do you have more information about available shells? You've listed "all AP", do you mean without filler?

 

@Milocat specified it in his original post but I can double it: they're all APHE.

 

More precisely, the gun and the shells that it uses are the same ones that you can find on the M11/39.

This is stated in note 17 at page 24 from "Andare contro i carri armati" by Nicola Pignato and Filippo Cappellano.

 

This means that this gun won't have that impressive penetration, but, at least, unlike the M11/39, this time it will be mounted on a fully rotable turret, which is quite a plus.

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2 hours ago, Taffu92 said:

 

@Milocat specified it in his original post but I can double it: they're all APHE.

 

More precisely, the gun and the shells that it uses are the same ones that you can find on the M11/39.

This is stated in note 17 at page 24 from "Andare contro i carri armati" by Nicola Pignato and Filippo Cappellano.

 

This means that this gun won't have that impressive penetration, but, at least, unlike the M11/39, this time it will be mounted on a fully rotable turret, which is quite a plus.

Thanks. Does it have 37/40 mod.18 or mod.30, or there is no difference in terms of performance? 

For M11/39 it's called "Vickers-Terni 37/40 mod.18" in the game, is it correct?

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It uses the Vickers-Terni 37/40 developed in 1918.

 

Also, you find me a bit surprised with those two 37mm cannons.

Take what I'll say with a pinch of salt, as there are better informed people around this topic, but I think the mod.18 and the mod.30 are just fictional names for the same gun.

 

For what I know Vickers-Terni evolved the 37/10 infantry gun in the 37/40 cannon in 1918. The mod.18 can be a Gaijin thing because the gun was built in that year (like the Granata Perforante mod.32 for the Semovente 75/32 that does no actually exist), while the mod.30 is something that I hear for the first time.

If it existed maybe someone can tell us more.

 

But, be assured, I can confirm you that both the M11/39 and the Fiat 611 used the same Vickers-Terni 37/40 developed in 1918.

Edited by Taffu92
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1 hour ago, Taffu92 said:

For what I know Vickers-Terni evolved the 37/10 infantry gun in the 37/40 cannon in 1918.

The 37/10 (previously called 37F) and 37/40 aren't related, the 37/10 is a copy of the Austro-Hungarian Skoda 3,7 cm Infanteriegeschütz M.15, the 37/40 is a license built French gun.

They use completely different 37 mm shells and cartridges.

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3 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Interesting, and 37/26 is also completely different cannon?

About the 37/26 (which should not be confused with the 37/20,6, another license built French gun) very little is know except that it was developed after WWI and maybe it is related with the 37/10 since it uses the same shells, but the relation 37/26-37/10 is only a my  hypotesis based on the use of the same shells.

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