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what does the chieftain mk 3 have going for it at 8.3?


On 12/05/2019 at 06:57, SamuraiJack said:

how's the gun on the chieftain compared to conqueror ?

Same inconsistent garbage, at least the reload is much better for follow up shots.

 

Don't play this tank, the faction and MM is so bad you'l lose so much (35% WR) no matter how good you play. 

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32 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Same inconsistent garbage, at least the reload is much better for follow up shots.

 

Don't play this tank, the faction and MM is so bad you'l lose so much (35% WR) no matter how good you play. 

well I got the SKD on release so I'll get there sooner or later...right now I'm using the Vickers MBT/ FV 4005 & SKD; was hoping I could replace the FV with Chief Mk3 

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Good tank i love him.
But for me are all Chieftain a bit overtiered.
I highly recommend a BR decrease of 0,3 for all 3 Tanks (MK3, MK5, MK10)
That would be much better in comparison with all other nations.
Which have better tanks on these BR levels.

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8 hours ago, *Rubberduck-de said:

Good tank i love him.
But for me are all Chieftain a bit overtiered.
I highly recommend a BR decrease of 0,3 for all 3 Tanks (MK3, MK5, MK10)
That would be much better in comparison with all other nations.
Which have better tanks on these BR levels.

 

They need to buff APDS post pen.

 

Spoiler

The damage cone on the M103's full bore AP on the UFP of the T-62 is insane. Swapping over to the APDS of the A1A1 there's about 1/5 to 1/3 the spall of the 120mm AP. The DM23 APFSDS of the A1A1 has about double the spall of the DM13 APDS.

 

On the protection analysis I clicked 20 times with each of the following rounds dead center on the UFP: 120mm M358 AP, DM13 APDS, DM23 APFSDS, L15A3 APDS.

 

M358:

  • 14 penetrations at 500m
  • 12 penetrations killed every crewmember
  • driver survived twice.

DM13:

  • 20 penetrations at 500m
  • 4 penetrations killed a crew member
  • only component ever damaged was the engine and was only knocked out 7 times

DM23:

  • 20 penetrations at 500m,
  • 10 penetrations killed a single crewmember
  • 10 penetrations killed two crewmembers
  • 14 penetrations knocked out the breach
  • all penetrations knocked out the engine

L15A3:

  • 20 penetrations at 500m
  • 2 penetrations killed three crewmembers
  • 4 penetrations killed 2 crewmembers
  • 3 penetrations killed one crewmember
  • 7 penetrations knocked out breach
  • all penetrations knocked out engine

US M728:

  • 20 penetrations at 500m
  • 4 penetrations killed 2 crewmembers
  • 8 penetrations killed 1 crewmember
  • engine was only knocked out twice
  • breach was only turned red 7 times, never knocked out

3MB-8

  • 20 penetrations at 500m
  • 2 penetrations killed only a single crew member
  • no components damaged beyond yellow

3BM-11

  • 20 penetrations
  • 2 penetrations killed 3 crewmembers
  • 12 penetrations killed 2 crewmembers
  • 2 penetrations killed 1 crewmember
  • 3 penetration knocked out gun breach
  • all penetrations knocked out engine

 

 

Projectile weights and velocities of ammo used:

  • DM13/M392A2: 4kg @ 1478m/s
  • L15A3: 7.6kg @ 1370m/s
  • M728: 4.65kg @ 1426m/s
  • 3BM-8: 4.13kg @ 1430m/s
  • 3BM-11: 5.4kg @ 1620m/s

 

  • DM23 APFSDS: 3.79kg @ 1455m/s
  • M358 AP: 23.1kg @ 1067m/s

 

The 3BM-11 was the most effective APDS used, followed by the UK L15A3, US M728, DM13/M329A2, and lastly the 3BM-8. So projectile weight and velocity appear to have the biggest impact on post pen effects.

 

Using Ek = 1/2mv2 we get the following:

  • DM13/M392A2: 4368970 J
  • L15A3: 7132220 J
  • M728: 4727830 J
  • 3BM-8: 4222720 J
  • 3BM-11: 7085880 J

 

  • DM23: 4011760 J
  • M358 AP: 13149500 J

 

Which closely corresponds to the short test of effectiveness for the rounds, although by raw energy the L15A3 should be on top instead of 3BM-11. Unless they are accounting for perpetrator core diameter (which I cannot find anywhere, but the diameter of the core is directly responsible for spalling).

 

Oddly, the round with the least KE was the DM23 APFSDS but was far more effective than the DM13 APDS. Even though it's lighter, slower, and IIRC smaller in diameter.

 

Obviously the 120mm M358 AP had the most KE coupled with a large diameter for spalling and high mass for fragmentation.

 

Perhaps someone more current on physics can check my math as well.

 

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2 hours ago, *oppsijustkilledu said:

Slightly off topic but does anyone know how legitimate this document is? I might be misunderstanding the diagram but does this show an internal armour plate within the turret? Circled it in red.20190516_224647.thumb.jpg.17e0af3cff47db

 

I don't know how legitimate the site is, but it does list 2. Questions of defense technology. - 1983. - No. 5 (111) as the source.  Which I can't find anywhere in about 20 minutes of searching the web.

 

As for that 125mm plate, I think it's the plate I have circled in the below picture:

Spoiler

224202632_WarThunderScreenshot2019_05.16

 

Which lines up with the table the article lists below that armor diagram of a 125mm thick cast plate, though it lists that plate at 60o

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd just like to point out that since the cheiftain was released over three years and 15 major updates ago, I've tried to bug report the ammo in the rear of the turret exploding as many patches as possible. Guess what? It still explodes

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  • 1 month later...

I've heard rumors it was pretty good when it was released but now it's garbage, and i believe the entire tech tree is way too messed up for WT to do anything about it.

 

Compare a tank with 100mm armor and 20km/h top speed with a penetration value of 200mm to a wheeled race car with 25mm armor, 60km/h top speed and a penetration of 150mm. The strengths of the tank are not strengths at all, the armor is completely meaningless, as is the penetration value. Meanwhile the weaknesses of the race car are not weaknesses at all, there is no functional difference between having 25mm armor and 150mm armor.

 

This is the analogy i can think of. It's heavy armor reduces it's speed, but the penetration value of it's opponents practically makes any armor advantage it does have meaningless. The armor is essentially dead weight. It's overall a terrible terrible tank, with no redeeming features. It has a bigger gun than it's adversaries, but they thought it a good idea to give the gun APDS ammo, while giving everyone else rockets or APFSDS ammo.

 

If you want to enjoy the British you stop at 6.7. You got two mediums, 1 heavy, 1 super heavy and 1 tank destroyer. The three mediums are competitively maneuverable with other medium tanks at the tier, they have super penetration values, with inferior post-pen damage. Their armor is somewhat lacking, but they have a stabilizer. The tanks are good and balanced in my opinion, without being severely disadvantaged in any one category or superbly overpowered in any other. They would be average without the stabilizer, but i don't think it pushes them from average all the way to overpowered, they are very good to excellent tanks. You can also bring out your Mk24 Spitfire at 6.7.

After 6.7 it's all down hill.

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1 hour ago, Novat93 said:

It's heavy armor reduces it's speed, but the penetration value of it's opponents practically makes any armor advantage it does have meaningless. The armor is essentially dead weight. It's overall a terrible terrible tank, with no redeeming features. It has a bigger gun than it's adversaries, but they thought it a good idea to give the gun APDS ammo, while giving everyone else rockets or APFSDS ammo.

 

Sadly you're pretty much bang-on, and it's even worse for the Mk. 5 at 8.7. I've previously advocated the mobility advantage being worth a small BR raise but now with 8.7 being the domain entirely of very fast MBTs with stabilisers firing APFSDS the situation is very different.

 

Chieftain was designed at a time when the mobility and RoF sacrifices were worth it for the extra punch and protection, however their current BRs leave them with inferior ammunition and irrelevant protection on top of the worse mobility and longer reload. I've tried to play 8.7 quite a bit to use the Venom with RP-3s (which is great), but on at least 90% of matches I find myself spawning a Warrior or even Falcon instead of a Chieftain.

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On 14/07/2019 at 18:46, Novat93 said:



After 6.7 it's all down hill.

7.0 britain has been ok for me, although it has a lot of problems I still get decent winrates and k/ds there


I have a question regarding the cheiftain l15 apds, as I'm currently researching the mk 3 and have test driven it a few times

I notice that the 120mm APDS seems to do more spalling damage than the 105mm on test drive. Am I just seeing things or is there a real difference? Not that the post pen of the 120 mm is amazing, but it doesn't seem as bad as the 105. 

Edited by Dantheman66
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 16/07/2019 at 23:58, Dantheman66 said:

7.0 britain has been ok for me, although it has a lot of problems I still get decent winrates and k/ds there


I have a question regarding the cheiftain l15 apds, as I'm currently researching the mk 3 and have test driven it a few times

I notice that the 120mm APDS seems to do more spalling damage than the 105mm on test drive. Am I just seeing things or is there a real difference? Not that the post pen of the 120 mm is amazing, but it doesn't seem as bad as the 105. 

 

I find the APDS of 105mm gun quite good. Ofcourse the 5.0 and 7.5 sec reload helps, but side shot to T-54/55 is 9/10 a OHK. Tiger II, put one in gunner, then one center mass on UFP and it dies. The 120mm of Chieftain is better, for some reason, than the Conqueror, but i find the Chiefs to be quite inaccurate, kinda like the 105 was before its accuracy got fixed. Its like the T95E1: you aim for center of the UFP on a T-54, but you hit turret cheek and rico, then die.

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God damn the 120 mm is inaccurate, at least stock. Without adjusting my aim the shell landed 100 m in front and then 300 m behind a tank ~1km away

 

Honestly I wasn't expecting much but I seriously underestimated just how garbage this tank would be. There isn't a single redeeming quality whatsoever.

The mobility is trash, which was expected, and the armour is pretty useless as well.


However the gun is what I hoped would make the tank at least somewhat usable. Instead it's one of the worst guns I've ever used, as bad as the stock 105mm at 7.7-8.7 if not worse. The damage is garbage, and I've been killed by tanks who should have been long dead when I shot them (sometimes multiple times) prior more times than I can count. Even a direct hit to the UFP of one of those fiat lunchboxes has failed to do any damage at one point, resulting in a death I shouldn't have had. The penetration also is unreliable, with seemingly random bounces off of (mainly russian) vehicles that should have penetrated easily. Then there's the poor accuracy as I've mentioned.

And HESH is as useless as ever, I've shot bmps multiple times with it and not killed anything beyond the driver or fuel tanks. 

Really this tank doesn't have a single thing going for it vs any other 8.X vehicle. Tanks like leo1a1/of 40/type 74 and whatever else are superior in literally every aspect, and that's before considering the heavily spammed pay-to-win premium vehicles that share the br of the inferior tech tree counterparts. 

 

Really I think this tank could go as low as 7.7, and 8.0 is the highest it should be. 7.0 or even 6.7 vehicles aren't exactly going to have much trouble against it. I'd even say the stb, a 7.7 tank, is actually far better than chieftain anyway.  

 

Anyway at least I can say I'm done with the british tree for now. 8.3 is as high as I ever wanted to go as top tier is utter trash, especially for britain. 

Edited by Dantheman66
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 04/08/2019 at 06:34, Dantheman66 said:

God damn the 120 mm is inaccurate, at least stock. Without adjusting my aim the shell landed 100 m in front and then 300 m behind a tank ~1km away

 

Honestly I wasn't expecting much but I seriously underestimated just how garbage this tank would be. There isn't a single redeeming quality whatsoever.

The mobility is trash, which was expected, and the armour is pretty useless as well.


However the gun is what I hoped would make the tank at least somewhat usable. Instead it's one of the worst guns I've ever used, as bad as the stock 105mm at 7.7-8.7 if not worse. The damage is garbage, and I've been killed by tanks who should have been long dead when I shot them (sometimes multiple times) prior more times than I can count. Even a direct hit to the UFP of one of those fiat lunchboxes has failed to do any damage at one point, resulting in a death I shouldn't have had. The penetration also is unreliable, with seemingly random bounces off of (mainly russian) vehicles that should have penetrated easily. Then there's the poor accuracy as I've mentioned.

And HESH is as useless as ever, I've shot bmps multiple times with it and not killed anything beyond the driver or fuel tanks. 

Really this tank doesn't have a single thing going for it vs any other 8.X vehicle. Tanks like leo1a1/of 40/type 74 and whatever else are superior in literally every aspect, and that's before considering the heavily spammed pay-to-win premium vehicles that share the br of the inferior tech tree counterparts. 

 

Really I think this tank could go as low as 7.7, and 8.0 is the highest it should be. 7.0 or even 6.7 vehicles aren't exactly going to have much trouble against it. I'd even say the stb, a 7.7 tank, is actually far better than chieftain anyway.  

 

Anyway at least I can say I'm done with the british tree for now. 8.3 is as high as I ever wanted to go as top tier is utter trash, especially for britain. 

 

Sad to hear this...I am having an absolute blast with the 17lber at 4.7. 

 

Mid tier = Best tier I guess

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51 minutes ago, MattS93 said:

 

Sad to hear this...I am having an absolute blast with the 17lber at 4.7. 

 

Mid tier = Best tier I guess

For me up to Cent. Mk 3 is OK, afterwards not so much.

 

Yes 17pdrs are great fun.

Edited by KH_Alan
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1 hour ago, KH_Alan said:

For me up to Cent. Mk 3 is OK, afterwards not so much.

 

Yes 17pdrs are great fun.

 

Thanks for the tip...I actually played the Strv81 a bit before I really understood the game at all. Seemed very nice, but perhaps wasted in my clumsy hands LOL.

 

Looking forward to getting back up there again, someday. I'm on a slow and steady training program so it will probably be a year before I'd play 6.7 again :crazy:

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what does the chieftain mk 3 have going for it at 8.3?

 

 

Answer: It has being overtiered just like the Mk5 at 8.7 and the Mk10 at 9.0 going for it.

 

Mk3 -> should be 8.0

Mk5 shoulde be 8.3 at the very most.

mk10 should be 8.7 at the very most.

 

 

 

P.S:  The T32 and T32E1 are also overtiered now. Should be 7.0 and 7.3 respectively.

Edited by Laviduce
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