XELORMASTER

are you profitable?

 

 Do you remember the time when a kill in SB was worth more than 20,000 lions?

 

I can not be profitable when I play simulator. I just played a game with my F2H, and with 8 kill for 4 dead and I'm in the negative ... (not my best game btw)

 

I do not remember having this problem before. I feel that the rewards have significantly decreased ...

 

And also: your crap wagger, adapt them to sim mode if you want us to use them ....

Edited by XELORMASTER
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yes - earning is on the low side but using top rank as an example is not best idea - in all or almost all F2P grind-based games top tier, top rank, top BR, end-game stuff is not profitable.

 

Bigger problem is that no matter what rank you play you struggle with SL income.

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It's a fallout of other modes. Rewards for high tier games are reduced so players have to got into lower tier matches to earn some SL.

That brings higher number of players in lower tier so NEW players have someone to fight against.

Ofc they are fighting against veterans therefore they are mostly killed easily and quite often.

So they may buy some GE or premium vehicle/account time to be more "competetive" by either getting vehicle that will produce more SL/RP (not sure if also put against weaker/lower BR enemies) or simply witt use of GE they can skip grind and get all modules researched or even get through trees with ease.

That ofc will not help them again as some veterans would do way better even in "worse" vehicles. So need for more premium time to offset lost SL may be still there .

 

WIN WIN for GJ.

1 minute ago, przybysz86 said:

Bigger problem is that no matter what rank you play you struggle with SL income.

Depends - as you know i play only up to tier3 - no issues with SL.

Seems it's more t4 and up problem.

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2 minutes ago, Amyel said:

Depends - as you know i play only up to tier3 - no issues with SL.

Seems it's more t4 and up problem.

depends on how average player you are. I can imagine that people who struggle to get K/D>1 at rank 3 will at best get enough SL to survive but not enough to progress.

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This issue is very apparent in SB EC

 

For average players the progress is glacial... if not negative. We are sounding like a broken record, but until Gaiijin looks at the EC economy as it relates to the game as a whole, this issue will persist. New players will likely continue to be discouraged from joining SIM air, especially as EC is the primary air arena.

 

For Joystick players who are learning the game, and who want to acquire and develop an inventory, they most likely will have to endure a massive beating at the hands of mouse aimers in AB and RB to partially fill out their tech trees. I made far more income, in one quarter of the time, in RB with a 1:10 KD, than I do in SB EC with a 1:1 KD in SIM EC. Ground targets are also problematic as they have become harder to kill because of ordinance nerfs (caused by other modes, and mouse aim) and hardening of ground targets and may have suffered reward nerfs over the last 2 years. 

 

It might be as simple as bringing SL spawn costs down to a quarter (or less) of the repair bill in EC. But crew advancement is also glacial as is module grinding above tier 3. (edited to add)... It might also help to double rewards or rebate spawn costs if you "land" your kills, though I am unsure how this will affect the game meta as it might discourage players from venturing far from their airfields. But it would further incentivize completing missions alive.

 

I might turn a better profit in SB operations (or ground, which I never fly) if I turn off auto repair... but for me, EC is my arena of choice. Its very frustrating, and is likely a leading cause of new player retention issues.

 

There... I've said it again. 

 

Moderators please take heed.

Edited by *Nobody__0wens
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my testimony: I am a medium to bad player and I would like to play rank 3, but I realized that due to my skills I, playing rank 3, I lose SL easily ...
I wanted to learn to play with planes of rank 3 but I lose SL. From time to time I play with plane rank3, but often as I would like, I can not play.
I have about 20 million SL, but I hold this award, because I have no real money to invest in the game. On the other hand, of course, I know that, Gaijin is a company and needs to earn real money, to pay developers and profit
 
Perhaps because the development in programming, is more complex in SB it less inceptive to which players, enjoy the SB and agaijin invest more in AB and RB

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look at this

 

i'm sitting on 11 kills, 5 bot + 1 ground target for 3 death with a undertiered plane (P-61C-1 against T4 planes .... mostly Be-6 :smile:

20181230224206_1.thumb.jpg.c933355f3875a

 

and this is what i get : 42 293 lions 

20181230224252_1.thumb.jpg.7fd8e1f9ff9cf

 

I guess, at least im profitable ..... 

Look at this ****, 42 000 for 17 units kill and 3 death, that 2 470 lions per kill .... are you xxxx serious ? how i'm i supposed to grind ? how new players are supposed to grind in simulator battle ?

long time ago playing in Sim was very worth it .... but now this is just ****...... and you wagger don't even works 

 

i love you gaijin :smile:

 

EDIT :

look at this, 4 years ago a crit hit was paid 1600 , hit 900, and a kill 15 000 (proof at 2m55) 

 

Why gaijin ? you want me to buy a premium account ? 

it just makes me not to do it.

20181230224206_1.jpg

Edited by XELORMASTER
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I really must be missing something. I'm not a big sim player, but I had some fun with my F3D over the last two weeks, bombing stuff, killing the occasional plane, capturing zones. It seems like I've made more than I've lost, and the RP gains have been delicious. From half spaded to spaded a lot faster than air RB.

 

I may spend a lot more time on the stick with how things seem to be working at top tier! 

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I'm stuck at 470,000 lions for 3 months ... 

 

 

shame on me, I tried to play bomber with the B-29A-BN but this fat **** cost 50 200 lions to repair :016: it's impossible to be profitable with it ....

 

My only solution to grind is : take my low tier planes, go on high tiers fight, get a 1 for 10 ratio and make like 10 000 lions per game ....

 

Is it just me or the economy in SB is completely ***** up ? :facepalm:

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typical gaijin .... some **** are reported, and get fixes litterally YEARS after ....

I m on this stupid game for maybe 4 years, and trust me i've seen tons of **** .... this game is really ****, i can't even promote this game to my friend. I left a bad evaluation on steam and i swear i'll never spend any dollars on this game until it get better :smile:

 

Look at this : i'v try to kill ground target with my PBJ-1H

20181231031434_1.thumb.jpg.0fc492926bcf6

 

- 15 ground target is worth 966 lions :smile:

- i've spend 40 min hunting ground target and get (for a good score of 2 air kill, 15 GT kill for 2 death) 9700 xxxx lions .... really what a xxxx joke, do you even play your game ? Ho and by the way i've to pay 4000 for spawning, that not even in the battle report. So For 40 min with a decent score im profitable to 5700 lions :smile:

 

FIX the xxxx ECONOMY AND MAKE SIM BATTLE GREAT AGAIN !!!

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I would agree that T4 and up is generally not nearly as profitable - repair/spawn costs tend to go up faster than earnings multipliers - I usually go into higher tier matches only expecting to break even.

 

Either way, part of the difficulty is that earnings are very much dependent on getting kills. I actually think recent EC changes have improved things slightly compared to last year - objectives are more plentiful and capturing Air zones also earns RP/SL as well, so there are more ways an average player can make back some cash. Also, battle time awards (SL/RP rewards for being in close proximity to the enemy) are now based on the actual time spent in the game, rather than as a percentage of the entire 3-hour EC match.

 

One thing that I think many are still not aware of is that rewards in EC are awarded in two chunks - you get the first half of a reward when you score the kill or complete an objective, and the second half is only awarded on a successful (non-crash) landing. This means that getting a 2:2 KD is actually worse from an earnings standpoint compared to just going 1:0. Not only do you lose out on 50% of the rewards, you need to pay to spawn again! Just as a hypothetical example - if a kill gets you 10k SL and it costs you 2.5k SL to spawn; you'll earn only 10k SL for the 2:2 sortie and pay 5k SL to spawn - a net gain of only 5k SL - and if you want to keep going you'll need to pay another 2.5k. The 1:0 sortie earns you 7.5k SL (10k - 2.5k for the spawn), and you can keep going for no additional cost.

 

In my anecdotal experience I've found generally a 2-hour session where I go 15:15 actually nets me a lot less per minute spent compared to a 30 minute session where I go 5:0 and land successfully. I find paradoxically the best way to earn SL in EC is to fly safer, not greedier - crashing into an enemy gets you no SL, after all.

 

As others have mentioned, SB Operations tend to be better for income - it's not subject to the same rewards penalty as EC, so going 1:1 will net you the full reward. Boosters apply across the whole match, rather than their stated time limit (very helpful for large 150%+ boosters), and you get to spawn your entire lineup including top-bracket aircraft, which means you have more chances at getting a kill or two. Auto-repairs can be turned off to let aircraft repair overnight as well.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind an increase in profitability, or at least a shift of earnings to weight battle activity more than kills. The focus on rewards from kills results in all sorts of distortions - players tend to leave EC games as low K/Ds cut into rewards too deeply, leading to a self-reinforcing cycle where one side just abandons an EC game entirely, and the drive to get kills results in lemming-like behaviour where players conga-line after a single target.

Edited by LQuinze

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key to be profitable in SB EC is not to die at all cost.

You need to get at least 2-3x more kills/bomb dropped/tanks destroyed in each sortie to compensate for lost income and spawn costs if you die.

It might be more profitable (also counting SL/hr of play)  to get 2 kills and land than 5 kills and die depending on plane's spawn cost.

And if you re ok with flying same plane again in next sortie - lading gets even more profitable since each next sortie have a "free spawn" after all.

So if you need cash - stick to one plane and stay alive even if that means running away at first glance of damage

Edited by przybysz86
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Well, i lately started grinding soviet tree in SB. Had just a few planes from RB long ago and now im starting almost from zero.

I've unlocked all planes for 1st and 2nd era. It burned 1,5M lions from me. Got one milion as log-in reward, had 1,7M total. Got from +5k to +20k of pure profit; mostly had +7k/+10k battles, +20K were rare.

In two days i've spent 1,5 milion lions by buying new planes in tree. Now i have 190k. I can afford one 100k plane and one 77k. That means i will need to:

a) just research new planes without buying them (problem when i MUST buy planes to research higher era)

b) play climbfest in air RB/chaos in air AB to get money (which i don't want to play. The only otter air mode than SB EC that i will tolerate enough to play it, it will be RB EC. But still no RB EC available to play yet)

 

Playing EC mode results in HUGE amount of research points, much higher than in regular mode (especially that EC lasts for 3 hours). I don't know how about RB EC, but SB EC gives huge research points after these 3 hours. Lion reward is still unproportional to rp reward.

 

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After this one battle i've been able to research and buy four planes at once. Cheap in rp, because it's 1st era, but still...
Here's anotter one:
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yZK4OyU.png

Edited by Nightwolf_

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47 minutes ago, Nightwolf_ said:

research new planes without of buying them

I have about 6mln SL of planes researched that I don't have SL to buy and about 6mln SL of planes I've bought but can't afford to crew

 

welcome to WT ;)

48 minutes ago, Nightwolf_ said:

Playing EC mode results in HUGE amount of research points

that's the problem - ulike other modes it's not uncommon in EC to get similar amount of SL and RP while all the research grind is set up for game modes that give much more SL.

I recommend you just look at SL income - your research will always be ahead of you so just ignore it

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It seems folks want to earn based on time spent. That is wrong.

 

If you fly and kill things without dying, you earn a profit. If you don't, you go broke. This is the way it should be.

 

 

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The economy of a free to play is based on frustration, do not look elsewhere... 

More you tryhard more you want To buy a Premium item or account...

Easy and fast at the beginning, slow and hard at the end...

It s simple, they only want To make money.

99% of the free to play works like that. 

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Get a couple kills, LAND the plane, rearm & refuel, repeat.

I haven't gone under 20 mil SL in 3-4 years.

EC hasn't changed (lowered) my income at all that I can tell....I rarely even look at it. It doesn't matter cuz I usually LAND the plane.

It's Sim, you're not supposed to throw your life away if you can help it, lol.

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6 hours ago, _Dawger_ said:

It seems folks want to earn based on time spent. That is wrong.

Consider giving them the benefit of the doubt? I'm sure "time" is merely an expression of time + effort I.E. "After an hour of struggle, I only had ____ to show for it." 

 

7 hours ago, _Dawger_ said:

If you fly and kill things without dying, you earn a profit. If you don't, you go broke. This is the way it should be.

No one disagrees with that basic premise. The nuance issue is the ratio of profit for kill & land.

 

Free Market Capitalism / Law of the Jungle be damned, we want tons and tons and tons of participants (targets) 24/7 which the hardcore sims don't have. Lions are a powerful tool for accomplishing that goal. Costs hardcore players nothing.

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If I realy want lions I fly in SB GF. If you shoot down two planes, maybe bomb a tank and the guys on the ground win that match. You can earn like 60k SL with a premium in 20 minutes. 

Who wants to earn in EC should do that. 

4 hours ago, DrunkenAngel said:

Get a couple kills, LAND the plane, rearm & refuel, repeat.

But the income for CAS in EC is rediculous low for rp and sl. I sometimes ask myself if they have the AB rewards active for ground targets. 

Edited by nazradu2
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15 minutes ago, nazradu2 said:

But the income for CAS in EC is rediculous low for rp and sl. I sometimes ask myself if they have the AB rewards active for ground targets. 

well in general it's lower than air kills but:
-attackers have hidden 1.5x or 2.25x modifier for ground kills (rule of thumb is that attackers built around big AP guns have lower bonus) with exception of planes like BF110s and fighters capable of CAS (either using bombs or things like Yak-9T) - those do not have any bonus.
-CAS give lot of points and points give cash over time (so called activity) basucally more points you have higher activity you get and higher activity the more SL and RP you get for every minute you are in game.
In end-game screen you will not see it as cash for CAS so it might not be easily noticeable but basically playing objectives give indirect bonus

-CAS helps winning games and that's 1.6x bonus to SL :)

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24 minutes ago, nazradu2 said:

Who wants to earn in EC should do that.

Rather "Who wants to earn for EC should do that."

You can earn lions FOR ec by flying sb gf, but you can't earn IN ec by flying sb gf, because sb gf is not ec.

But yeah, reward for ground targets is riddculously low. 103 (one hundred and three) for 14 ground targets? is that a joke? While 5,5k for four landings?

This way i should destroy one ground target at once, go back to af, land and go back to destroy anotter one, just to get ground targets to landings ratio 1:1 to earn (as long as landing reward depends of how many points we earned in the air, then that makes sense: you've done a lot and land succesfully, you've rewarded for both what you;ve done and for safe return. Not for just one or second thing separately).

5 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

well in general it's lower than air kills but:
-attackers have hidden 1.5x or 2.25x modifier for ground kills (rule of thumb is that attackers built around big AP guns have lower bonus) with exception of planes like BF110s and fighters capable of CAS (either using bombs or things like Yak-9T) - those do not have any bonus.
-CAS give lot of points and points give cash over time (so called activity) basucally more points you have higher activity you get and higher activity the more SL and RP you get for every minute you are in game.
In end-game screen you will not see it as cash for CAS so it might not be easily noticeable but basically playing objectives give indirect bonus

-CAS helps winning games and that's 1.6x bonus to SL :)

Lel, no wonder that players are confused and frustrated when half of lion sources are hidden.

Edited by Nightwolf_

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right now best SL income give Be-6 bashing. Take 109 with MK108 pods, 190A5U12 w/pods or F-82 w/pods and bash them. They keep comming in traditional soviet fashion of mindless "hurraaaah".

Also generally playing objectives give SL - for example in EC3 caping A point give 2000SL and if you play fighter there is great chance enemy will appear so there will be action and chance to earn more.

Bombing AFs can also give decent SL if you survive but you need to weigh your payload vs speed - it might be better to take smaller payload that is fully enclosed in bomb bays and is lighter for faster climb and make 6 runs in time you will do 3-4 runs with big bombload. Also lighter payload increase chance of survival since you will go higher

Edited by przybysz86
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10 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

well in general it's lower than air kills but:
-attackers have hidden 1.5x or 2.25x modifier for ground kills (rule of thumb is that attackers built around big AP guns have lower bonus) with exception of planes like BF110s and fighters capable of CAS (either using bombs or things like Yak-9T) - those do not have any bonus.
-CAS give lot of points and points give cash over time (so called activity) basucally more points you have higher activity you get and higher activity the more SL and RP you get for every minute you are in game.
In end-game screen you will not see it as cash for CAS so it might not be easily noticeable but basically playing objectives give indirect bonus

-CAS helps winning games and that's 1.6x bonus to SL :)

Do you have any proof for that theory?

I was pretty shocked when I tried to spade the ducks. I took them into EC3 and killed 21 GTs, landed more or less 80%, most of the kills medium tanks and expected to have both planes nearly spaded. See what I did get. 

1038438417_shot2019_01_0209_59_03.thumb.

The rp I earned where so low that I could only buy a second module for each. WTF? All the money in that game came from the nine fighter kills. I could not stay to see the end screen, but next game I will dedicate to CAS only and it will reward me with nothing.

These days win ground battle is not even a task anymore and you get no notification wether it is lost or won. You only see the progress on map. 

 

 

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