I think the P43s  are the only tanks of Italian design that could be inserted in that period, the other tanks are all foreign and used by the Italian army.
I would agree if, before inserting other foreign tanks, it would be better to evaluate the P43 models, Italian projects but not produced.

 

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On 26/12/2018 at 19:50, Conte_Baracca said:

If the Japanese get the Ho-Ri...and the Germans get the Tiger II 10.5 and Panther II...Italy should get the P.43

 

Nothing else really needs to be said.

 

Ho-Ri exists and Tiger II 105/ Panther II will be remove in the future.

 

Nothing else really needs to be said.

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7 minutes ago, Gavinny said:

 

Ho-Ri exists and Tiger II 105/ Panther II will be remove in the future.

 

Nothing else really needs to be said.

The thing is, one year is passed since they said that and not many efforts were made to find better fillers to put in the place of the panther and the tiger. For italy it would be the same thing if we talk about the p30/43 while as someone said the ho ri production has no photographic evidence of it, there are sources yes I know but many, I'm not that one, will still doubt them so it is in a sort of limbo since the ho ri prototype was in fact build in part and then forgot somewhere like the ho229. The r2y2 is the flying p43 bis, it existed on paper but yet is in game that's why many argues about that

Edited by MadMax_ITA_
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2 hours ago, Gavinny said:

 

Ho-Ri exists and Tiger II 105/ Panther II will be remove in the future.

 

Nothing else really needs to be said.

Evidence? Again, people say it did but they don't provide evidence.

 

And Gaijin said the 105 and Panther II may be removed in the future, not will be. Furthermore, they are fantasy tanks whereas the P43 is not (post-paper is not fantasy). 

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5 minutes ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

They should just fix the Panther II and Tiger 105 to their real live blueprints, what Gaijin made was just to copy the WoT models. 

The panther 2 is the one from the real blueprints, the one at bovington is fake because it has just the origin al chassis while the turret was taken from a different panther. They do follow the blueprints and that's what they are complaining 

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59 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

The panther 2 is the one from the real blueprints, the one at bovington is fake because it has just the origin al chassis while the turret was taken from a different panther. They do follow the blueprints and that's what they are complaining 

The Panther with 88 was a misconception made by Spielberger in the 90s I guess. In game it's way way too wrong. It never had the Tiger II transmission, HL234, a 88 mm turret. The Panther 2 was cancelled in 1943. 

AG9mbVd.png
This is how the Panther 2 should look. They complain because it's a fake tank.

The Tiger 105 on the other hand was made by gaijin, with rangefinder, 6th crew member and a somewhat questionable position of the turret on the hull.

 

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4 hours ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

The Panther with 88 was a misconception made by Spielberger in the 90s I guess. In game it's way way too wrong. It never had the Tiger II transmission, HL234, a 88 mm turret. The Panther 2 was cancelled in 1943. 

AG9mbVd.png
This is how the Panther 2 should look. They complain because it's a fake tank.

The Tiger 105 on the other hand was made by gaijin, with rangefinder, 6th crew member and a somewhat questionable position of the turret on the hull.

 

the real problem is, if they remove those what will they add there? post war tanks against end ww2 ones. they have no real fillers to put there, and they didn't had them in the first place so this is why many are pushing for this kind of filler where needed because they are kinda justified

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30 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

the real problem is, if they remove those what will they add there? post war tanks against end ww2 ones. they have no real fillers to put there, and they didn't had them in the first place so this is why many are pushing for this kind of filler where needed because they are kinda justified

They just need to make them realistic (Panther II and Tiger 105) If they would make the Tiger 105 realistic there would be no point in replacing it, the 105 gun is missing pen (should be as powerful as the 128). As for the Panther II, there is a real alternative that was going to be built. 
e50e75photo12-235c9c8156d3ec8de3ec4bd536
Panther F with the 88 mm DB Schmalturm. An order for a prototype was given. Give it the HL234 engine (with or without the supercharger 1200 hp output) and you are done for a replacement of the Panther II.

I honestly don't see WT as a realistic game to begin with (gameplay, balance, logic, matchmaking, performance of vehicles, core features.) 

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On 30/12/2018 at 18:37, Gavinny said:

 

Ho-Ri exists and Tiger II 105/ Panther II will be remove in the future.

 

Nothing else really needs to be said.

When?  When will they be removed?  

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On 30/12/2018 at 16:15, Vand3rz said:

Evidence? Again, people say it did but they don't provide evidence.

 

And Gaijin said the 105 and Panther II may be removed in the future, not will be. Furthermore, they are fantasy tanks whereas the P43 is not (post-paper is not fantasy). 

"The Military hardware of World War II", 1984:

"Prototype KA-TO and HO-RI heavy self-propelled guns, on the CHI-RI Chassis, were produced just before the war's end".

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25 minutes ago, joegunn1943 said:

"The Military hardware of World War II", 1984:

"Prototype KA-TO and HO-RI heavy self-propelled guns, on the CHI-RI Chassis, were produced just before the war's end".

What Ho-Ri variant? I know that 1 proto was completed but I find people arguing that is the Ho-Ri I with no angled armor.

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1 hour ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

What Ho-Ri variant? I know that 1 proto was completed but I find people arguing that is the Ho-Ri I with no angled armor.

this is not the thread to talk about the ho ri, moderators have worned us before i think, there is a discussion on the japanese sub section, it is the ho ri jadgtiger style by the way

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Another Japanese tank that was designed (with parts existing) but not built posted on Reddit. Everyone is fairly positive. The relevance to this topic is of course the similar situation of the tank to the P43 and bis and the reaction it might get to being introduced to War Thunder. Hope to see this vehicle in-game eventually along with the P43s.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Vand3rz said:

Another Japanese tank that was designed (with parts existing) but not built posted on Reddit. Everyone is fairly positive. The relevance to this topic is of course the similar situation of the tank to the P43 and bis and the reaction it might get to being introduced to War Thunder. Hope to see this vehicle in-game eventually along with the P43s.

 

 

This one's a black sheep.Mai stated in the past that:

.Basically all the data we have is wrong in terms of appearance

.There's too little info on specifications

.It would take a REALLY far stretch for this to be added

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No off topic pls, here we talk about the P43 tanks of Italy.

Here the large version of P40

 

carrop40dev20-a78cc7bf358319354b0483efa0

 

carrop40dev19-6d79199fb0c35df2a163599e3b

 

Never produced, but in an advanced stage of development. Maybe it will never be inserted, but you can not find it a real fat guy, with those sloped armor also on the sides. It could be like an Italian jumbo, maybe!

Edited by paulassos5
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2 hours ago, paulassos5 said:

No off topic pls, here we talk about the P43 tanks of Italy.

Here the large version of P40

 

carrop40dev20-a78cc7bf358319354b0483efa0

 

carrop40dev19-6d79199fb0c35df2a163599e3b

 

Never produced, but in an advanced stage of development. Maybe it will never be inserted, but you can not find it a real fat guy, with those sloped armor also on the sides. It could be like an Italian jumbo, maybe!

So curvy:D

I would love to see it and parts for that one were even manufactured, there were even orders to build this meaning if it wasn't for the armistice the tank would have become a real possibility 

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4 hours ago, paulassos5 said:

No off topic pls, here we talk about the P43 tanks of Italy.

Here the large version of P40

 

carrop40dev20-a78cc7bf358319354b0483efa0

 

carrop40dev19-6d79199fb0c35df2a163599e3b

 

Never produced, but in an advanced stage of development. Maybe it will never be inserted, but you can not find it a real fat guy, with those sloped armor also on the sides. It could be like an Italian jumbo, maybe!

 

The bigger turret makes me think if they indeed planned on giving it the 75/46 (or the italian produced PaK 40 like on the Semovente M43) or it was just done to make space for the commander

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1 minute ago, Leeb_ said:

 

The bigger turret makes me think if they indeed planned on giving it the 75/46 (or the italian produced PaK 40 like on the Semovente M43) or it was just done to make space for the commander

Both were planned, a bigger turret for a possible bigger gun was a real possibility but the original plan was to put the same gun and to have a cupola for a fifth member, the commander, this is what we can see from mockups and blueprints

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I don't like this tank because it's 3d model would be a total "what if" with personal interpretations.

The blueprint in this stage is too "early".

Knowing how many modifications were done from the early project to the series production of the P40 i can imagine that all these features should be used on a hypotetical P43.

Then the year. In 1943 Italy was starting to do welded hulls instead bolted like on Semovente M43 series for example that were half welded.

So this feature should be applied too? Or maybe it was full welded or bolted? We can't know it (and nobody can because it was never built)

All these things put my mind towards a "no"

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17 minutes ago, BlueBeta said:

I don't like this tank because it's 3d model would be a total "what if" with personal interpretations.

The blueprint in this stage is too "early".

Knowing how many modifications were done from the early project to the series production of the P40 i can imagine that all these features should be used on a hypotetical P43.

Then the year. In 1943 Italy was starting to do welded hulls instead bolted like on Semovente M43 series for example that were half welded.

So this feature should be applied too? Or maybe it was full welded or bolted? We can't know it (and nobody can because it was never built)

All these things put my mind towards a "no"

If we really want to stick to the blueprints then we can clearly see that it would have been bolted, I'm not talking about the P43 bis but about the p30/43, this last one was ready to begin production and orders were made, we can see that the armor was bolted. The p43 bis on the other hand doesn't have any sort of indication about bolts, maybe welded plates then, otherwise we would even see in the most detailed blueprints some hints to bolted plates, and given the presence of welded plates on the m43 series I would say that's the case. The p30/43 is the most detailed one we have and wouldn't be a "what if" in game model

carro-armato-p43.thumb.gif.9ab6e0f8c36870e3fecc2531683e5cda.gif

Edited by MadMax_ITA_
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25 minutes ago, BlueBeta said:

I don't like this tank because it's 3d model would be a total "what if" with personal interpretations.

The blueprint in this stage is too "early".

Knowing how many modifications were done from the early project to the series production of the P40 i can imagine that all these features should be used on a hypotetical P43.

Then the year. In 1943 Italy was starting to do welded hulls instead bolted like on Semovente M43 series for example that were half welded.

So this feature should be applied too? Or maybe it was full welded or bolted? We can't know it (and nobody can because it was never built)

All these things put my mind towards a "no"

 

Without any doubt to add it in game, you have to make assumptions, but there are also things that we already know. For example, the armament is well known, the armor thicknesses also, then we know that, as you rightly said, from 1943 onwards the armor was welded. That said, it would be a matter of sketching a realistic idea of a prototype on a 1:1 scale, I would not go into defining a mass produced tank.

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1 hour ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

snip

this is not a real blueprint, can be done by everyone in the web. not reliable.
I think this should be like a trash compared to the quality of the whole TT as 3d model.

 

unknown.png

Maybe the bolts too it's just a guess, looking at the P43bis project the hull appears as welded, there would a possibility for a welded hull for this tank too

 

all these points can't change my mind to a "yes"

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