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What happened to bombers? Why are they so garbage now?


Answer to the thread title...

Because Gaijin don't care.

 

They don't care that some players like to play bombers. They don't care that bombers get sliced in half with absurd regularity. They don't care that most bombers have never been worth the development time to create them. They don't care that they've never really had much to do in the game. They don't care that they've even gone some way to removing what little they could do.

 

All this neglect is kinda fine if care has been given to other areas in compensation. But if it has, i've yet to find out where. It's a similar story across the board from what i have seen in recent times. Bombers aren't the only victims.

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  • 5 months later...

Actually pay for something and complain.  Fighters keep trying to make the skill argument to kill off realism because they don’t like to have to pay attention or actually think you’ll just fly a fighter all the time and stay on the game.  
 

I liked Gaijin for actually doing more than fighters because ever since I was a kid everyone made games about fighter planes only.  It wasn’t really until the mid 00s you even saw fully controllable bombers in mainstream games.  Ground attack came even later.

 

But freebie fighter wants to only fly in a circle, play RB because it’s cheaper than AB and less work than SB, and brag about how little they invest in the game.  You start buying packs and demanding change Gaijin will hear you over them.  
 

They could always just make a fighter only mode for them and we’d have all the guys who want a quasi realistic/logical match again.  Because it’s not just bombers who got punished it’s ground attack and this is coming from the “IL-2” company.

 

And if they don’t vote with your wallet.

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22 minutes ago, *bigredsnake said:

It wasn’t really until the mid 00s you even saw fully controllable bombers in mainstream games.  Ground attack came even later.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Their_Finest_Hour_(video_game)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Weapons_of_the_Luftwaffe

 

Not realy mate.

It was more like 89...

 

And the other parts of your post are as true as what you have written here...

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9 hours ago, *bigredsnake said:

Actually pay for something and complain.  Fighters keep trying to make the skill argument to kill off realism because they don’t like to have to pay attention or actually think you’ll just fly a fighter all the time and stay on the game.  
 

I liked Gaijin for actually doing more than fighters because ever since I was a kid everyone made games about fighter planes only.  It wasn’t really until the mid 00s you even saw fully controllable bombers in mainstream games.  Ground attack came even later.

 

1. That was debunked already

 

2. WT bombers aren't fully controllable. 

You cannot manually control the bomb sight for example. 

 

9 hours ago, *bigredsnake said:

But freebie fighter wants to only fly in a circle, play RB because it’s cheaper than AB and less work than SB, and brag about how little they invest in the game.  You start buying packs and demanding change Gaijin will hear you over them.  
 

 

9 hours ago, *bigredsnake said:

They could always just make a fighter only mode for them and we’d have all the guys who want a quasi realistic/logical match again.  Because it’s not just bombers who got punished it’s ground attack and this is coming from the “IL-2” company.

 

Not true. Il-2 was made by 1c and published shed by ubisoft. Until Cliffs of dover was released. With the failure cliffs of dover and the resulting differences between the two companies everything changed. 

 

777 (the guys from rise of Flight) took control and together with 1c created il2 battle of Stalingrad. 

 

Gaijin was not involved in any of that. 

 

Gaijin developed an arcade ps4 spinoff called il-2: birds of Prey (the name already shows the emphasis on fighters). AFAIK they got information on how the flight models of il2:1946 worked.

 

From there the brand il-2 and gaijin parted ways and gaijin created arcade flight games on the basis of the deal with 1c.

 

One of them is birds of steel Wich development direxlctly caused war thunder. 

 

9 hours ago, *bigredsnake said:

 

 

And if they don’t vote with your wallet.

 

 

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Right now I see no positives to bomber gameplay

You are venerable nd you damage too easily

bomb damage vs vehicles is nerfed so that you need 100kg direct hits to kill tanks which is hard to do with internally stowed bombs 

And your rewards for doing the things that actuallty win games ( bombing the tanks and bases  ) are dwarfed by the fighters padding their k/d 

 

 

Solution 

 

Give bombers their old bomb damage on ground units back and increase economy rewards a bit  . Don't change anything else 

This turns bomber play into risk vs reward . Sure you have the same vulnerabilities to fighters and flak as you have now but if you can make it to the ground units either through fortune or *gasp* teamwork you get rewarded 

 

 

On 23/12/2018 at 05:22, sniperNZSAS said:

Or did War Thunder just buff all the guns of every fighter aircraft but forgot to increase HP of bombers to compensate? Seriously what has changed in the few months I didn't play? It seems any fighter now just has to sneeze in the direction of a heavy bomber and 'pop' off goes the back half of the aircraft....

 

 

Depends on the cannons. Ever try taking on a bomber with stealth ShVAKs?

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4 hours ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

 

Give bombers their old bomb damage on ground units back and increase economy rewards a bit  . Don't change anything else 

This turns bomber play into risk vs reward .

Not without reducing the accruacy of bombs to something more sane and bringing up the blast radius so you can bomb something directly under your without blowing yourself up.

 

Right now bombers will bring you a high reward.

Either zones with a high XP reward or ground units with a high Lions reward. At last compared to the effort it needs to kill the groundunits.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My gripe with bombers is that once you start moving into 4.0+ their climb rates start getting worse and worse for most of them. You go from 16 m/s climb rates to 3-4 m/s and eventually all the way down to like 1 m/s until you get to jets. Every fighter can outclimb you and you're just a free kill. It turns bombers away from some tactical tool into something where you just kamikaze rush bases because I don't want to spend 10 minutes climbing up to a safe altitude.

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29 minutes ago, comeandseevx said:

It turns bombers away from some tactical tool into something where you just kamikaze rush bases because I don't want to spend 10 minutes climbing up to a safe altitude.

 

Well, you exagurate a bit, but you basically spill the milk here.

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28 minutes ago, comeandseevx said:

I'm not exagerrating. It takes a horrendous amount of time to get up to an acceptable altitude. You have to spawn, fly away from everyone into corner of map, and spend minutes of your time climbing up, stopping, gaining air speed, repeating, etc.

 

Maybe you overdo it a bit?

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  • 1 month later...

The gunners cannot seem to kill anything at all anymore these days unless you man the guns themselves. This makes levelling up the gunners a complete and utter waste of time (aside from perhaps hitpoints).

 

The main kicker is the planes folding like paper from a single bullet.. its no fun.

On 11/11/2019 at 17:53, comeandseevx said:

My gripe with bombers is that once you start moving into 4.0+ their climb rates start getting worse and worse for most of them. You go from 16 m/s climb rates to 3-4 m/s and eventually all the way down to like 1 m/s until you get to jets. Every fighter can outclimb you and you're just a free kill. It turns bombers away from some tactical tool into something where you just kamikaze rush bases because I don't want to spend 10 minutes climbing up to a safe altitude.

Yes you are dead meat right from the get go.


The fact that all the enemy fighters can see exactly where you are right away is a joke, they can get to you before you even get to the target, having insane climb rates.


I used to turn away from the enemy bases and climb along the side of the maps, but it makes no difference anymore.

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If you manage to die this good in every bomber you are doing wrong.

We got bombers that are bad, because they don't fit into the game.

 

But if you manage to do that bad with the B18s, when they are unlocked for you - its you and only you.

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  • 2 months later...

I love the bombers, but I hit the ground nose down each time thanks to those DeathHeads (red skull players). The real deal weren't that great, but really, how can my turret gunner be knocked out so fast? You have to be smart and on your toes to be a bomber pilot.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/03/2020 at 13:37, RustyRelics said:

DeathHeads (red skull players).

You do know, that this is just a sign applied to the guy who shoot you down the last time in the current match (because revenge kill gives money).

This is not a special sign for a special group of players at all...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just curious...as i stopped playing Aircraft for 6 months or more now...

 

Are bombers still easy targets or something changed lately...?

 

Last time i played, bombers would rarely survive encounter with an enemy fighter...the tactic was to sideclimb OR dive into a base to get one drop...

Gunners would now fire but rarely hit...and the first good burst from fighter (usually one of the first 3 or so) would sever the tail or a wing...

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because little girls that went straight at them before got whacked so they cried their little eyes out to Gaijin and they caved making them one shot kills with a .22

On 03/01/2020 at 18:23, Head3masher said:

The gunners cannot seem to kill anything at all anymore these days unless you man the guns themselves. This makes levelling up the gunners a complete and utter waste of time (aside from perhaps hitpoints).

 

The main kicker is the planes folding like paper from a single bullet.. its no fun.

Yes you are dead meat right from the get go.


The fact that all the enemy fighters can see exactly where you are right away is a joke, they can get to you before you even get to the target, having insane climb rates.


I used to turn away from the enemy bases and climb along the side of the maps, but it makes no difference anymore.

careful posting that here. You'll get the "git gud" crowd.

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2 hours ago, anyuser said:

Might be because gunners in this game are very deadly.

Won't belive it?
There is a single player mission in the game named Flying Fortness.

 

Have fun.

Depends...last time I used fighters to chase a bomber gunners would not fire until I had landed a few hits...most times bomber is critically damaged by the time gunners START firing...

 

Last time I played (with or vs bombers) with enjoyment was 1.7X or so...

Fighters would win most times anyway

Gunners would actually make fighters think about attack

Bombers would survive some hits

In the end...fighters had to plan attacks...and have good weapons...preferably both...

 

I am guessing this is still "broken"

 

BTW...git gud won't work...I used to play both sides ... Bombers became one attack missiles and bomber interception became a race...vs the other team fighters...

Months since I played planes...guess no reason to try again...

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 23/10/2019 at 15:12, anyuser said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Their_Finest_Hour_(video_game)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Weapons_of_the_Luftwaffe

 

Not realy mate.

It was more like 89...

 

And the other parts of your post are as true as what you have written here...

 

 

That's not mainstream mate.  America was busy playing Nintendo back then, certainly didn't have an Amiga, and most didn't have PCs until the mid to late 90s. 

 

America vastly bigger than any country who uses the term "mate" hence what I mean by mainstream.  I mean by that logic Robbie Williams is mainsteam but I assure you he can walk down any street in America and be well hidden. The fact that I know him is a rarity here. I know you guys think this relationship is reciprocal but it's not. I was actually surprised how vastly different your 80s and early 90s gaming was from ours but the gaming market for the longest was driven by Japan and the US.  That's obvious from all the mainstream titles.  

 

 

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On 24/10/2019 at 00:19, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

1. That was debunked already

 

2. WT bombers aren't fully controllable. 

You cannot manually control the bomb sight for example. 

 

 

 

Not true. Il-2 was made by 1c and published shed by ubisoft. Until Cliffs of dover was released. With the failure cliffs of dover and the resulting differences between the two companies everything changed. 

 

777 (the guys from rise of Flight) took control and together with 1c created il2 battle of Stalingrad. 

 

Gaijin was not involved in any of that. 

 

Gaijin developed an arcade ps4 spinoff called il-2: birds of Prey (the name already shows the emphasis on fighters). AFAIK they got information on how the flight models of il2:1946 worked.

 

From there the brand il-2 and gaijin parted ways and gaijin created arcade flight games on the basis of the deal with 1c.

 

One of them is birds of steel Wich development direxlctly caused war thunder. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm aware and that's the mid 00s I was talking about.

 

In regards to what mainstream is because while I play both PC and console I can admit console is the mainsteam.  They have the bigger audience, they make more money, and so for all your pointless typing you missed the whole point that Cliffs of Dover, IL2, Aces High if you wanna go there, etc was on PC and hence not accessible to most gamers.  Learn how to argue

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36 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

They have the bigger audience, they make more money,

Yeah eh - no.

For many multi plattform it is more or less an equal destribution of sales and money made, if you don't look at "console" but if you split up the consoles. Because "consoles" is not a single plattform and never was.

Still money and sales of all those very different consoles (that all require an own version of a game) are often put together.

 

The "big" audience these days is PC F2P (that does make much more money then any console) and mobile.

Don't know if you want to add mobile to consoles too though.

 

36 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Learn how to argue

Starts with bringing up the facts...

 

43 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

That's not mainstream mate.  America was busy playing Nintendo back then, certainly didn't have an Amiga, and most didn't have PCs until the mid to late 90s. 

And I always though Atari was the stuff from the USA...

And oupsi, first one was for Atari too.


What you got back then is up to you. But claiming it was not mainstream because it was not released for the single plattform you got back then - sorry.

Learn how to argue...

 

 

Btw, nobody doesn't say console isn't a bigger thing in US.

What you make out of that information does not work though.

Edited by anyuser
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5 minutes ago, anyuser said:

Yeah eh - no.

For many multi plattform it is more or less an equal destribution of sales and money made, if you don't look at "console" but if you split up the consoles. Because "consoles" is not a single plattform and never was.

Still money and sales of all those very different consoles (that all require an own version of a game) are often put together.

 

The "big" audience these days is PC F2P (that does make much more money then any console) and mobile.

Don't know if you want to add mobile to consoles too though.

 

Starts with bringing up the facts...

 

And I always though Atari was the stuff from the USA...

And oupsi, first one was for Atari too.


What you got back then is up to you. But claiming it was not mainstream because it was not released for the single plattform you got back then - sorry.

Learn how to argue...

 

 

Btw, nobody doesn't say console isn't a bigger thing in US.

What you make out of that information does not work though.

 

 

Stay on target...we're talking about flying games from the 80s to mid 00s.  I'm aware of the mobile game argument now but it's not relevant to discussing when flying bombers became mainstream in gaming.

 

Atari wasn't relevant stateside by '89 their heyday was the early 80s and died when Nintendo took over after the crash.  Market size matters and the US/Japan were are still largely are the video game industries main market. 

 

I can easily claim consoles where more dominant in the mid 00s. I can easily argue moreso than IL2 or Cliffs of Dover reached a much smaller marker hence they were not mainsteam.  You're eldest relatives have probably seen a GTA or COD ad on TV or on a billboard I doubt they've ever seen one for IL-2.  

 

And in regards to console being bigger in the timeframe of the games the other poster listed is why it's relevant when discussing what is mainstream. Again stay on target learn to argue. 

 

 

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around your misstatement about bombers being high risk high reward because clearly you just want to play Tank v Tank only.  Bombs and rockets have been nerfed beyond realistic in Ground mode that already lacks soldiers, accurate artillery, and the most lethal weapon against tanks in WW2 anti tank guns. Wargaming makes games for players like you and quit killing this game because you're upset you got killed by a "no skill" bomber.  It's better than the RB "no skill" corner camper waiting 5 minutes for someone to finally pass by...so much more skill was displayed there!  Or the heroic AB KV tanker in his unkillable death machine murdering everything in front of him but one shot go through his side so he needs to come on here and post about it and demand a nerf of whatever tank it is.  Bombers (more so dive) weren't that inaccurate, bombs/rockets did more damage than Ground mode shows (even RB), and all this for the hyper unrealistic fantasy of tank v tank battles? You clearly love the game so much you live on here more than you do the game itself judging by the amount of posts you've made. I'd rather see if some naysayer like you and your kind would actually start showing how much you've actually spent on this game trying to keep it going than doing everything you can to turn it into the competition.We all know how well that worked out for games like Battlefield trying to morph into COD afterall.  

 

I'm sick of this toxic gamer base.  Seriously why are you naysayers even playing WT? I'll answer it for you because I always get the same answer.  It's the realism, you like the fantasy that you could have been that famous pilot, tanker, etc. I get that we don't want to go have to check the tanks oil, or worry about the mixture, or pretend that even in RB most planes fly at 100% at all times without any engine damage.  WT is the best middle ground between realism and action there is.  But in that same breath WHY are you doing everything you can do ruin that?  Because it's not fun to be killed occasionally by an IL2 rocket?  Because a B-17 could carpet bomb you? Because real tankers didn't to deal with P-47s divebombing them?  Oh Gaijin please spend months making my BF109K cockpit as realistic as possible so I can saw off a Lancaster's tail in one burst while I calmly sit behind them because his Ace crew can't hit anything.  That's super skillful and realistic...fighters didn't just make passes at bombers because of how deadly the gunfire was at all! 

 

You guys are ruining your own game, you're the same crowd that while every other game has ended spawn killing you still argue for it because somehow that's skill (we can argue realism on spawn mechanics later but point is there are some features no game should have), you're the same crowd who loves to brag about how little you spend on this game while it's ran almost a decade no thanks to any of you tightwads, and all the while if I read most of your posts Gaijin is the worst company on the planet and you'll stop playing this game tomorrow if you die one more time to  (insert problem weapon or vehicle of the day probably premium because they're all pay to win).  Well I'm sick of it and I'm sick of players like you! Gaijin needs to stick to what keeps them different from WoT and it's not Tank v Tank only battles.  Nor is it pretending a B-17 is easily destroyed by a BF109 just calmly sitting behind it pouring rounds in.

 

Who's really the best after all the guy who kills the most tanks in a tank only battle or the guy who kills the most tanks while also dodging or hiding from the air?  Which one is more realistic?  

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14 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

 

Stay on target...we're talking about flying games from the 80s to mid 00s. 

You started it.

You were the first one leaving even this timeframe.

The thread isn't even about that topic.

 

18 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

 

discussing when flying bombers became mainstream in gaming.

 

 

 

Funny, because back then those games _where_ mainstream gaming.

Before the dawn of the FPS-shooters such kind of "Sim" (not from todays perspective - a reason why Sims left mainstream after becomming more and more sim), RPGs and Adventures was the mainstream. Followed up by RTS and TBS.

At last on everything exept Nintendo...

But Nintendo might have been the biggest single platform, but never was the majority of the marked...

 

15 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 You're eldest relatives have probably seen a GTA or COD ad on TV or on a billboard I doubt they've ever seen one for IL-2.   

Yeah right, thats why I have played games from 1989/90 back in those days...

But nice tactic to switch to insults if you are out of everything else.

 

19 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around your misstatement about bombers being high risk high reward because clearly you just want to play Tank v Tank only.

You haven't even taken a glimpse at my profile, right?

 

FYI: I don't play tanks...

 

So I don't get what your whole tankrant is aimed at.

I only killed a lot of tanks (well AAs) with my Ju 87D3 in War in Mid AIr events.


But I play fighters, bombers and attackers with the same amount of success.

 

So, keep your stupid insults based on something you just made out of your mind for yourself.

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I don't know what changed, but it seems as if bombers are far more durable now, while fighters remain easily killed by even a single 50cal. There's been instances where I've been hit by a single 50 cal tracer round that rips my fuel tanks, sets my engine on fire, and blacks both my wings, while I've poured 400-500 20mm bullets into an Me 264 and he suffered slight damage to two of his engines, while reddening my J2M3's engine and blacking my left wing root.

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