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Rptd: AMX-10RC gun recoil/mobility/suspension issue


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1.Gun recoil

The AMX-10RC‘s GIAT 105mm/L47 F2 is a low-recoil gun with 2-stage muzzle brake,it's not the same gun with AMX-30B2's 105mm F1 L56. Different barrel length,The F2 has lower recoil.

But in the game the performance of the recoil is not right.seems like u give AMX-10RC a much more higher recoil.

2.Wheel issue

With its unique wheel suspension.The AMX-10RC can have a 360 degree turn without situation change,just like nowadays MBT.

The game shows that AMX-10RC can do this in game as well.

But when AMX-10RC driving at high speed and want to have a turn.it have to lock one side of the wheels to turn,just like old fashion.it's not right.

truth is AMX10RC use different speed of different side of the wheel to turn.

3.suspension issue

AMX-10RC has hydraulic suspension that can change its height and its depression angle and bank left or bank right.

here i have some videos from youtube about AMX-10RC footage:

in this video from 1:33,1:44,5:09,we can see the wobble caused by recoil  is not as big as we saw in the dev server and in 7:37 the gunner/commander position even has a stabilized sight to aim

from 1:09,2:53 and 8:58 we can see its changeable suspension

 

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Hi !

 

After some test on the devserver, I noticed that the AMX 10 RC was unable to elevate only the right or left side of the hull by using the hydropneumatic suspension, which seems inaccurate, as we can see in this demonstration :

(2min00 : Left side ; 2min50 right side)

Sadly I can't show a video of the issue in-game as the devserver now is closed

 

DxDiag.txt

2018_12_13_22_45_44__14176.clog

 

Thanks for your attention

Edited by KillThatPlatypus
Added DxDiag log and Client log
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Hi,

   You recently made a report in the Development Server 1.85 Technical Forums that has not been Approved, as it failed to meet the reporting guidelines for information on an issue.

Can you all please ensure that you provide the information requested in the Guidelines.  Especially during the Dev Server Testing as this will assist in the prompt resolution of any issues.

Additionally, if your report has a historical aspect, please ensure that your references comply with the Referencing Guidelines.

Quote

Historical Issues Referencing Information

 

The required number of References depends on the type of sources presented:
OEM Manuals    -  User Manuals / Repair Manuals / Factory Manuals etc (Flight/Pilot/Maintenance Manuals, Engineering Drawings etc) - Historically acknowledged reference sources - single source is required. (Preferred)
Authored works   -  Reference Books on collections of vehicles/aircraft/ships ('coffee table books') Biographies, Specialist Books, "Expert" opinion publications, websites, industry magazines etc - at least two unrelated sources required.*

 

*Please be reminded that Wikipedia or other private Websites are generally not considered as reliable sources.

 

  • Please ensure the references haveReport/Document Type, Report/Document Name, Author, Date, ISBN/ISSN, relevant Pg No's etc - so our Historical consultant can review and check the accuracy of those documents against the substantial Gaijin Historical Database and Reference Sources.
  • Please provide scans of all pages referenced and a scan of the front cover of publication/book.  
  • For Web sources. Please provide the link to the actual relevant section or document.  If this is not possible and only higher links can be referenced then please provide page or title information to locate the relevant reference.
  • Photographs need to be fully referenced.

 

The links etc are made available below for your convenience.

Quote

 

Can you please amend your report in the format requested above, with all the necessary information on the issue included within the next 48 hours and we will be more than happy to investigate the issue for you.    If a longer time is required, please indicate this to the Technical Moderator dealing with your issue and they can provide reasonable time extensions.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Technical Moderation Team 

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  • KnightoftheAbyss changed the title to [feedback] AMX-10RC gun recoil/mobility/suspension issue
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1.

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=1111 page 2-3

it's the archived report of the AMX-10RC,from forecastinternational.com

image.png.15e592f46c20b7cab2849ab5ff6803

2.

And i found out more thing about how AMX-10RC suspension works on Google books

The name of the book is <High Speed Off-Road Vehicles: Suspensions, Tracks, Wheels and Dynamics.>written by Bruce Maclaurin.

in chapter 7 and chapter 8 

I also found the manuals of AMX-10RC at scribd.com but the language is french, i hope u guys can actually read that and i upload this file already

I hope these can help u guys :)

 

114213616-Armor-Manuals-ABC-125-3-AMX-10-RC-Manuel.pdf

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Thanks.  This may take several days whilst I await a response from French speaker.

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As for your issue #2 which is about inability to turn without plainly braking one set of wheels (clutch braking), this is right now universally true for every single tracked vehicle (this vehicle does behave like tracked in regards to steering, which is realistic) and is an overall game engine/logic limitation. Once regenerative steering is implemented in general, it'll be possible to implement it for AMX-10RC as well, but right now it's meaningless to report it.

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  • KnightoftheAbyss changed the title to AMX-10RC gun recoil/mobility/suspension issue

Additional information of the question#3:

IMG_7516.JPG.3096234c87c7e9b58658086613c

 

Edited by KPzLeopard2
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5 hours ago, KPzLeopard2 said:

additional information of the question#3:

IMG_7516.JPG.3096234c87c7e9b58658086613c

We need the reference this picture came from.   Please follow the guidelines.

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On 14/12/2018 at 09:09, Tadokoro_Koji said:

1.Gun recoil

The AMX-10RC‘s GIAT 105mm/L47 F2 is a low-recoil gun with 2-stage muzzle brake,it's not the same gun with AMX-30B2's 105mm F1 L56. Different barrel length,The F2 has lower recoil.

But in the game the performance of the recoil is not right.seems like u give AMX-10RC a much more higher recoil.

2.Wheel issue

With its unique wheel suspension.The AMX-10RC can have a 360 degree turn without situation change,just like nowadays MBT.

The game shows that AMX-10RC can do this in game as well.

But when AMX-10RC driving at high speed and want to have a turn.it have to lock one side of the wheels to turn,just like old fashion.it's not right.

truth is AMX10RC use different speed of different side of the wheel to turn.

3.suspension issue

AMX-10RC has hydraulic suspension that can change its height and its depression angle and bank left or bank right.

here i have some videos from youtube about AMX-10RC footage:

in this video from 1:33,1:44,5:09,we can see the wobble caused by recoil  is not as big as we saw in the dev server and in 7:37 the gunner/commander position even has a stabilized sight to aim

from 1:09,2:53 and 8:58 we can see its changeable suspension

 

i was at the 3rd hussard Regiment last week , and asked some question to AMX10 RC drivers that were actualy driving the thing in front of me :

1# , most of the time , they don't fire the big gun on high elevation (road setting as they called it) to limit the woble , don't forget that is a very light vehicule in comparaison with the AMX 30 ,
try to shoot with minimum suspension setting and you will see 

#2 there is no driving wheels on an AMX10 RC ,  it's not the real "old fashion" but it's still using 2 levers to control the tank , on very old tank , you apply brake directly on the track , on a 10RC , you are slowing the transmission shifter on one side and raising the torque on the other side , so the turning speed depend of the gear you are on , and not the speed itself .

 

in game , by pressing the keyboard key to turn left , the game will consider that as a 100 % brake on the left shifter , that the problem

 

#3 this one is true , i saw them banking the armored vehicule in front of me (they were doing some verification before  mission ) , and the AMX10 RC crew often use the suspension to gain couple of ° on the gun elevation 

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The PDF document in French provided by @Tadokoro_Koji above details very precisely the firing operation of the weaponry of the AMX-10RC but does not have any information pertaining to the present matter.

However, let me mention that for obvious physics problems compared to real life, the devs actually accept actual footage revealing the issue. In particular, for exactly the same issue 1 (as stated by @TealMillan above, issue 2 is another story) related to a too soft modelization of the suspension of the AMX-13 series, the following bug report was forwarded by the moderator to the devs and acted on by the devs, despite only containing video footages as proof of the abnormal in-game behavior.

The official changelog for Update 01.10.2018 (1.81.2.1) corrects the issue, actually citing this bug report as the source:
"AMX-13 all - A problem with increased pivoting of the suspension has been fixed. (source)"
https://warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/877

(see the 9th change from the bottom)

Hence let me add 3 videos relevant for the present suspension issue leading to a wobbly gun while moving or firing. The video 2 illustrates the problem in-game (on the shooting range): 2.5 oscillations of the AMX-10RC after firing in-game vs 1 oscillation in real life (video 1 and the first one provided by the OP). The last video shows extreme off-road footage of the AMX-10RC with no sign of a wobbly gun.

 

Like for the AMX-13 before the above patch, the suspension of the AMX-10RC is too soft.
 

EDIT: the excessive recoil problem has been fixed in the last patch but the gearbox/mobility/suspension are still buggy
https://warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/920

See my bug report for the gearbox:

 

 

1/Firing training session showing the tank making only one oscillation and stabilizing at once after firing (official channel of the French Army)

 

2/ In-game, firing the gun leads to 2.5 oscillations (reference vehicle=fully spaded) vs 1 in real life (see video 1); if you brutally stop, the suspension also makes several oscillations before stabilizing.

CLOG: 2018_12_21_11_47_38__13308.clog

 

 

3/Extreme off-road test of the AMX-10RC (the gun is definitely not wobbly)

 

 

Edited by No_Camping
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 14/12/2018 at 14:47, KillThatPlatypus said:

Hi !

 

After some test on the devserver, I noticed that the AMX 10 RC was unable to elevate only the right or left side of the hull by using the hydropneumatic suspension, which seems inaccurate, as we can see in this demonstration :

(2min00 : Left side ; 2min50 right side)

Sadly I can't show a video of the issue in-game as the devserver now is closed

 

DxDiag.txt

2018_12_13_22_45_44__14176.clog

 

Thanks for your attention

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Démo+AMX+10RC

As we can see in this video AMX 10 RC is able to elevate in all sides. 

Edited by x_Fahrenheit_x
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 21/12/2018 at 20:40, No_Camping said:

the devs actually accept actual footage revealing the issue

This does not mean that they will do it always however!  There is that pertinent line in the guidelines:

Quote

Provide sources including reference that underline your position. This is up to the discretion of the Technical Moderator handling the report, however the number of sources required depends on the type of source presented:

 

But the Devs have not changed the guidelines have they? :)  

 

That report was dealing with how the vehicle stopped in game and dealt with the 'stiffness' of the suspension.  This is not often found in a manual is it?

 

The angle that a vehicle can roll to would normally be stated and have a maintenance tolerance though, wouldn't they?   As the suspension did its stuff.

 

This is more about actual angles that it can 'roll' onto.  So it is a different issue to the previous one.

 

However, I will look at all the information that I now have.

 

Cheers,

 

 

PS:

Bold text is unnecessary.  My eyes are quite functional :)  It will not alter whether the report is accepted or not either.

 

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https://youtu.be/zsdTQeGJqOg

 

As far as I can see the recoil issue is resolved.  It recoils once and centre's.

 

This only leaves the left and right lean as I have tested the forward, backwards, up and down suspension options.

https://youtu.be/iG0i3o08iD0

 

Sorry for just the links.  For some reason the Forum on 'sees' these as links with no video's.  Which ofc they have.

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We test everything in either RB or SB mode as a default.  Unless the issue is specific to AB mode.

 

 

Hi
  Thank you for your interest and help improving the game.  

 

Your information has been forwarded to the Developers for their consideration.  

If there is anything further regarding this report a Technical Moderator will contact you.

 

Thank you again for your support.

 

 

 

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  • KnightoftheAbyss changed the title to Rptd: AMX-10RC gun recoil/mobility/suspension issue
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