Ouiche

[Development] New repair and damage mechanics in Ground Vehicle Realistic Battles

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We would like to add a small explanation and emphasize, once again that the purpose of the changes is to make the game in vehicles with unresearched modifications more enjoyable.

 

We do not plan to change the basics of the gameplay in RB with these changes nor how any damage caused affects the game situation. Now, if you have caused functional damage to an enemy, you have some time to destroy him fully but if you did not succeed in doing this the enemy will be able to repair after some time and become dangerous to you again. You still cannot count on the absence of the modification "parts" from the enemy when you fight them. This will remain in the new mechanics, only that those who have not researched the modification will have an improved chance, for example, to get to a capture point and fix it there or approach an ally who can help with the repair and sometimes cover you in a hopeless situation.

 

We are ready to consider various options for these mechanics based on the results of discussions, for example, to do something with damaged gun barrels for a period of time (comparable to the repair kit/parts) in complete disabling of firing, or not to change the mechanics of damaged weapons at all and return only mobility. In our experience the designated critical damage to a gun is serious enough so we decided that it was possible to implement it for RB in this way. But a significant amount of criticism in the mechanics associated with weapons makes us think about other options. Therefore, we expect practical constructive proposals and dialogue from you.

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We would like to add a small explanation and emphasize, once again that the purpose of the changes is to make the game in vehicles with unresearched modifications more enjoyable.

 

We do not plan to change the basics of the gameplay in RB with these changes nor how any damage caused affects the game situation. Now, if you have caused functional damage to an enemy, you have some time to destroy him fully but if you did not succeed in doing this the enemy will be able to repair after some time and become dangerous to you again. You still cannot count on the absence of the modification "parts" from the enemy when you fight them. This will remain in the new mechanics, only that those who have not researched the modification will have an improved chance, for example, to get to a capture point and fix it there or approach an ally who can help with the repair and sometimes cover you in a hopeless situation.

 

We are ready to consider various options for these mechanics based on the results of discussions, for example, to do something with damaged gun barrels for a period of time (comparable to the repair kit/parts) in complete disabling of firing, or not to change the mechanics of damaged weapons at all and return only mobility. In our experience the designated critical damage to a gun is serious enough so we decided that it was possible to implement it for RB in this way. But a significant amount of criticism in the mechanics associated with weapons makes us think about other options. Therefore, we expect practical constructive proposals and dialogue from you.

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No, please just no. This is in the same trend of the RB tournaments with spots on the minimap and virtual "tags" on the enemy. Please, stop trying to turn RB into AB (I'd play SB but its playerbase is so poor that you always find yourself in a 5v5 match in super big maps)

The discount for high tier parts and FPE is good enough, make it permanent and we're done.

If you wanna change something, put FPE at tier 1 and if the community still complain then we're hopeless

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It is FAR more infuriating to do everything good and see your work nullified by some "artificial" reason, than taking a hit and being unable to repair. 

 

Think of one thing, everyone: would you like YOUR TARGET to be able to fire back at you even if "disabled", even with reduced effectiveness, after 20 seconds and without the need to stop for repairs? 

 

If this "quick field repair" mechanic is going to automatically kick in every time, without even the need to stop, in some circumstances it would be even more convenient than a proper "usual" repair with parts. Which, it should NOT be in any case. 

Edited by Serpiko82
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(for tank RB)

I just dont think its realistic enough to be implemented in that way. According to this you could continue driving with an engine, that has been shot multiple times which is just nonsense. Make it so that the severity of the damage is calculated and by that, its estimated if you can repair the damage without modifications researched. If the vehicle received low engine damage, repair and make it run with 40% less power. Or if the turret ring has been destroyed. You cant just repair it without "advanced" researched modification. Just doesnt make sense. The way you want you introduce it, is not bad, but it needs to be refined.

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While at the core this is a good system and addition, i do feel that some of the details could be changed for the better and to not include an AB system into RB. As RB is more module focussed then snipe the crew focussed i would propose to change the 5 points slightly into the following

  1. A disabled engine entirely blocks a vehicle’s movement for 40 seconds, after which 40% of its original function is restored.
  2. A disabled transmission entirely blocks the vehicle’s movement for 40 seconds, after which the gear shift range is reduced by half.
  3. A disabled traverse gear blocks turrets or guns from rotating(traversing) for 30 seconds, after which their rotation speed is limited to 30 degrees from the position the turret was in when it was damaged.
  4. A disabled elevation gear blocks the gun from elevating or depressing for 20 seconds, after which the gun elevation range is limited to ±3 degrees from the position the gun was in when it was damaged.
  5. A destroyed barrel inflicts significant penalties when fired: a 20-fold increase in shot dispersion and shells have 2 times less armour piercing and muzzle velocity.
  6. The ability to repair has been added to the spawn area(s) of the team the player belongs to.

This way you would retain the intent of the system while making it fit more into the core gameplay of RB while also retaining a bit of the immersion and at the same time keeping visuel information consistent as a destroyed barrel keeps the information to the player the same. Making modules of a tank also retain their importance while at the same time allowing for stock tanks to repair and retain the ability to continue the battle.

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I don't like it at all :facepalm:. It would be the same as in AB.

Just give everyone ONE Repair and FPS and after we researched it 2 or 3 repairs, that we maybe, just maybe, can refill at the cap zones.

Sorry,  I was a tank mechanic in the German army, but most of the matches don't even last as long as we needed to we fixed the tracks even in peace time.

I'm grateful for your idea, but it would ruin RB in my opinion. In my opinion RB and SB should be more challenging. Most players just rush in cap and get killed, up in and aircraft or helicopter, next match. 

When you have the luck and have two equal Teams, with good (team) players it is mind blowing, not these players that complain in Battlefield it was easier.

We have AB for those, in think we get in RB too close to AB. We should go more to SB.

By the way I enjoined in the last Air RB Enduring confrontation the view system (no Icons), can we get it please in random air battles:good: 

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I love these changes!

 

I would like to add two suggestions that could make these changes even better.

 

1.  Add a repair area in each deployment zone.

 

2. Add secondary objectives that act as capturable points, but don't affect win/loss.  These would be on the edges of the map, generally away from combat areas around objectives.  This would act as a secure area to fix your tank.

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This idea seems fine, it may help with the frustration of getting your new tank broken and useless in battle.

 

It would also be very cool if you align the gun sight in sniper mode with the actual gun sights instead of the center of the gun barrel for AB and RB, just saying.

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Dear fellow players and developers, I do not like this mechanic at all.

 

First of all, I see what you have in mind - the backlash on the Parts&FPE was very big, so you are trying to to satisfy the community with reducing the "stock syndrome" of vehicles. This is very nice of you and proves you are good people. But this idea goes to far:

 

I am particularly against the changes for the Barrel and the Gun-Elevation. Destroying the Barrel of a superior vehicle to drive around in order to kill it is a important game mechanic (how else should I deal with the bias =)) ). Your idea that allows the barrel to fire even when it is destroyed makes this tactic not viable at all. 20 times the disperson is still pretty much nothing for the distance of 10m. 
This means the changes on destroyed gun-barrels and gun-elevation does not only affect stock tanks, but it also affects tanks that do have parts. Why should I repair my gun-barrel if I can still kill?

The changes for mobility feel ok - being able to slowly roll into a cap point in order to repair after 20s of sitting is an ok mechanic.

On the other side, it takes 2 games to research Parts. I don't think it is justifíed to change the meta of a whole game just because people don't like playing a stock tank for 2 games. There should be still another tank in your lineup to respawn when you can't repair... 

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I like the approach but I don't like that things get magically fixed after 20 or so seconds, you should have to stop and fix your tank to fix your tank. There should be a heavy penalty for taking damage, this proposal lightens the penalty far to much. If you still had to stop and repair to get form completely broken to functioning but poorly, the penalty would still be severe but not basically take you out of the game as it currently dose. You could also make it so only moment related modules can be repaired without a repair kit but enable repairing at spawn points so the penalty very severe but you can still recover.

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I feel that to avoid any changes to the RB gameplay you should simply allow everyone to repair and the repair tool modification makes it go as fast as it does now. That way you do not change anything that happens in the game other than letting stock tanks slowly repair themselves.

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1 minute ago, BVV_d said:

We do not plan to change the basis of the gameplay of the RB with these changes and how the damage caused affects on the game situation.

But you are doing it. I play RB to actually do some damage to enemy tank, not to just turn off some parts of his tank for 20s. The things you are suggesting are already on AB and it should stay only there.

3 minutes ago, BVV_d said:

Now if you have caused functional damage to the enemy you have some time to destroy him fully but if you did not succeed in doing this the enemy will be able to repair after some time and become dangerous for you again.

Examples: I'm playing IS-2 with 22s reload, I had destroyed whole tiger II turret and his transmission and he have 2 crew members left. You want to implement a system that will give him a chance to kill me or retreat before i even reload. Other situation, i'm playing with T-34-85 and i face enemy Tiger II H (+1 B.R.), i destroy his gun because this is the only thing i can destroy when he is standing in front of me, then normally i would go at his side and destroy him. Now you want to give him a chance to destroy me because he will still have a chance to shot.  Again, it's a system from AB and it should stay there. 

7 minutes ago, BVV_d said:

And you can hardly count on the absence of the modification "parts" from the enemy when you fight with him.

But without this parts he wouldn't stand a chance, now with them or without he will be a bigger threat than it is now. 

 

 

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I don't like it at all. It would be (nearly) the same as in AB. Just give everyone ONE Repair and FPS and after we researched it 2 or 3 repairs, that we maybe, just maybe, can refill at the cap zones.

Alternatively or even better just let the players without repair and fps have some icon above them that team members can repair him. This would stop these lone warriors and implicate some team play.

I'm grateful for your idea and this discussion, but it would ruin RB in my opinion.

In my opinion RB and SB should be more challenging. Most players just rush in cap and get killed, up in and aircraft or helicopter, next match.

If you have the big luck to find a match of equal opponents and good team players War Thunder could be a blast.

 

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Very good change - i think we will see how it work out after it is implemented :good:

 

but.. as many others already said --> there should be something done about the FPE (maybe 1 charge stock) - and i would love to see the FPE restockable on a CAP (long reloadtime -> eg. 1 minute)

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9 minutes ago, BVV_d said:

I would like

Good day! Please remove the possibility of shooting with a damaged breech in arcade - unfair, when you have three misfires, the enemy kills you with the first shot

The possibility of firing with a broken barrel will hit the tanks with a long recharge, will allow you to shoot cumulative shells, HE and ATGM without loss of penetration on small distance (city)


Please return the ability to shoot without splitting the weapon into groups in small boats :sad:

Stona (Posted )

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I really appreciate that you guys are listening to the community and trying to improve experience for stock vehicle, but I'm not very enthusiast about this solution. It could work, and it would help stock vehicles, but causing dommage to specific parts would be less rewarded, and it doesn't help at all if your vehicle is on fire.

 

Allowing the repair of vehicle even without parts but with a malus (like +25% longer repair time, or minor reparation back to a functional but still damaged state) and allowing to extinct fire only one time without FPE researched would be better in my opinion.

 

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Some of these look pretty good, but a few look way too arcade-ish for me. Here's what I'd like to see:
1. The engine one actually looks alright, as long as that 20 seconds is a best case scenario. Would be even better if you were able to reduce engine output based on which cylinders had been knocked out, although that might be too complex. 

2. Again, not too bad, but perhaps lock the transmission to 1st gear and 1st reverse gear, rather than halving the shift range.

3. On tanks with a powered traverse, limit them to the manual overrides seen on lots of tanks with powered traverses. On manual traverses with no backups, disable it completely.

4. Quite like this one, makes it look more like the elevation mechanism has been more than just jammed. Perhaps elevation mech damage should also cause the stabiliser to malfunction if present?
5. Not a fan of this one at all. A destroyed barrel should be just that, Destroyed. Perhaps a damaged barrel should give severe penalties to long range accuracy and shell velocity, but a destroyed barrel should fail catastrophically when the tank fires, either causing an AP shell to ricochet randomly as it leaves the breech, or any chemical shells to explode prematurely as if the shell had hit a barrel fragment on its way out, destroying or damaging the tank.

 

 

Would be cool if players were able to help any player of the same nation repair their tank, as well as squad members, rather than the current system where only light tanks can assist. An M22 wouldn't just so happen to be carrying parts for a Chieftain, but another Chieftain might be.

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1 hour ago, Ouiche said:
modifications_c7792b62e6c681296160cc175c

Today, we want discuss possible changes to the damage and unit restoration mechanics in Ground Vehicle Realistic Battles. As you know, currently, repairs of several units and aggregates without the parts modification can be done just by being located at a point you control. If a damaged tank does not get help from friends, it will remain immobile or weaponless until the end of the battle. However, a tank with the researched parts modification can repair damage in 10-30 seconds (depending on the severity of the damage, any crew losses and crew skill level). This is a game feature.

 

After recent discussions regarding modifications and all the changes made in relation to them, we decided to rework this feature in order to take the following considerations into account:

 

  • Reduce differences in capabilities for restoring combat readiness between upgraded and non-upgraded vehicles.
  • Preserve the current gameplay in Ground Realistic Battles in terms of the importance of damage dealt.
  • Make the game more interesting for non-upgraded vehicles.

 

Accordingly, we plan to change the critical damage mechanics by adding quick field repair, available at all times for all vehicles.

It will work in the following way:

 

  1. A disabled engine entirely blocks a vehicle’s movement for 20 seconds, after which 40% of its original function is restored.
  2. A disabled transmission entirely blocks the vehicle’s movement for 20 seconds, after which the gear shift range is reduced by half.
  3. A disabled traverse gear blocks turrets or guns from rotating(traversing) for 15 seconds, after which their rotation speed is limited to 3 degrees/sec.
  4. A disabled elevation gear limits the gun elevation range to ±1.5 degrees from the position the gun was in when it was damaged.
  5. A destroyed barrel inflicts significant penalties when fired: a 20-fold increase in shot dispersion and shells have 2 times less armour piercing and muzzle velocity.

 

If a ground vehicle is equipped with the parts modification, a player can use it to begin repairs at any time and restore a unit to full combat readiness. But without this modification, it will have to reach a secured point and perform a full repair there. Meanwhile, the option of getting repair assistance from party members or allies for light equipment has been entirely preserved. The processes of automatic partial unit recovery and manually activated repairs occur in parallel and do not influence each other in any way.

 

We think these changes will produce a positive effect on gameplay for stock ground vehicles and will simplify their function without changing the general mechanics of fighting in Realistic Battles. We invite all players to take part in a constructive dialogue about this and look forward to your discussion comments.

 


The War Thunder Team

 

Hmmm implement this patch in the devserver sow we can see if its works... i m afraid beacuse stock tanks with bad rounds will be soooow bad ... like leo 1a1a1 with apds against abrams ..

 

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Did I understand this correctly? Stock vehicles comes with this so called "quick field repair kit" which basically repairs any damaged module partially instead of fully. If so Im 100% for it. It should use same mechanics for repair time as parts unlock, which depends on crew skill and number. So if you engines gets taken out you can fix it to %40 of its original function etc. and with parts unlocked you would be able to get it to 100% 

As for FPE there should be some kind of basic fire extinguisher which takes 2x or 3x longer to put out the fire.

This way parts and FPE would actually be an upgrade instead of critical feature that is not available from the start.

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