Ouiche

[Development] New repair and damage mechanics in Ground Vehicle Realistic Battles

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We would like to add a small explanation and emphasize, once again that the purpose of the changes is to make the game in vehicles with unresearched modifications more enjoyable.

 

We do not plan to change the basics of the gameplay in RB with these changes nor how any damage caused affects the game situation. Now, if you have caused functional damage to an enemy, you have some time to destroy him fully but if you did not succeed in doing this the enemy will be able to repair after some time and become dangerous to you again. You still cannot count on the absence of the modification "parts" from the enemy when you fight them. This will remain in the new mechanics, only that those who have not researched the modification will have an improved chance, for example, to get to a capture point and fix it there or approach an ally who can help with the repair and sometimes cover you in a hopeless situation.

 

We are ready to consider various options for these mechanics based on the results of discussions, for example, to do something with damaged gun barrels for a period of time (comparable to the repair kit/parts) in complete disabling of firing, or not to change the mechanics of damaged weapons at all and return only mobility. In our experience the designated critical damage to a gun is serious enough so we decided that it was possible to implement it for RB in this way. But a significant amount of criticism in the mechanics associated with weapons makes us think about other options. Therefore, we expect practical constructive proposals and dialogue from you.

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11 minutes ago, Panda_God_TM said:

These changes would definitely help with the stock grind on most of the tanks that suffer most from it, But this seems to destroy quite a few gameplay aspects of RB.

On quite a few tanks ingame the only thing you can do while stock (challenger) is to disable parts of a tank while sniping crew. If i'm stuck with shell types that cannot reliably kill tanks, and with the coming changes cannot reliably disable tanks either how is this supposed to help?  Many tanks that suffer from poor ammunition choices also suffer from low survivability, even if the accuracy is reduced by 20 any incoming fire will kill the tank. And not to mention the impact on tanks with longer reloads, placing an even greater importance on APHE in the meta.

but you usually shoot the breech, not the barrel. Furthermore if you don't disable an enemy tank with three rounds before he can limp away you need to work on your shotplacement. 

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I'm a it in the middle with this idea.

 

I think it would work however, reduce the penalty time a tiny bit, it feels a slight bit much. Maybe 15 seconds

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To an extent, I like this change and feel that it will improve the stock grind for many tanks. 

 

However, I am of the impression that these repairs can be done on the move and are entirely independent of crew skills as well as remaining crew. I do not feel that should be the case, as I would find it strange that a busted and banged up tank can return to (bad) fighting condition after a specified 20 seconds regardless of which crew members are left remaining.

 

Instead, I would propose that the system work like the regular repair works that must be done in RB now - where the tank must come to a complete stop before repairs can commence, and that repair time is affected by crew skills and health. This would bring it more in line with what we can expect in realistic battles without making stock tanks useless.

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Alright so I see all these people clamouring Yes! Yes! This is not a good idea. You will be changing realistic battles into arcade without markers. If people want this please make them a seperate game mode. I don't want to shoot a tank and then have it kill me even though I got em fair and square. Please don't implement this. If you do, you will force some of us into only playing simulator mode. 

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Hello, 

 

To begin, let us note that the current "parts"-repair system is far from realism. Most breakdowns would not be repaired at all in field conditions. With that in view, 

I am mostly neutral on the proposed changes. They effectively introduce a poor man's version of repair kits into the game. It can lead to interesting gameplay choices too:

why not run away from a battle and wait while you get some turret control to make a comeback against your foes? I found that with high-tier dynamics running away and repairing 

far from the engagement is a viable tactic. 

 

I have a problem though with the

"A destroyed barrel inflicts significant penalties when fired: a 20-fold increase in shot dispersion and shells have 2 times less armour piercing and muzzle velocity."

This seems like too much: imagine the barrel is destroyed in a way which blocks the exit for the round, the result will be tout et son contraire. 

 

What I propose is to add a 50% chance of complete loss of the capacity to shoot. Moreover if the round fired is APHE, HE or HEAT, simulate their explosions in the 

barrel if the negative 50% is realised. This way you will still have a way to lol-HE someone for example, but this can also mean that you will explode yourself.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ouiche said:

 

This system may evolve depending of the feedback, the devs had a couple of viable models / solutions in mind.

one solution you might have not thought about - remove parts alltogether. Tank hit is damaged and either made incapacitated or immobile.

Wouldn't it be better to get mechanics that would get you partial SP refund based of amount of crew that survives?
If your tank is hit you do what people did IRL - you bail out. When most crew survive they will get another tank and return to battle.

Say if whole crew exit you get 50% of SP back. if half of crew 25% and so.

That would be much more realistic as tank crew survival would play much higher role than ability to get one more shot after getting everyone else inside slaughtered.

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This makes the game less fun. The fun in warthunder is striving to make the best in every situation whether u got an underpowered vehicle or an underdog one and getting a kill with it. In other words, its much more fulfilling getting a kill if the game system is harder (just look why ppl love simulation games, the thrill of knowing that stupid moves will srsly affect your gameplay is what makes it fun. Making the game less forgiving would probably make dedicated payers stop playing this game and would only attract those type of players who are just trying out games and would leave it after some time)

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I feel as though these changes would work really well at tier 4 and below, but once you get above, they could be really damning.

 

for some vehicles the ammo damage is too inconsistent, as well as other vehicles having faster more powerful energies(and or slightly better modeld transmissions)

 

is there a reason long repair times without kits are not being considered?

Edited by *CodyBlues
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First of all THANK YOU GAIJIN! You heard the community and, surprisingly, continued working on it.

For my part, i will gladly support you to make the game better.

 

1.) Overall good ideas but add a time for the "quick repair" on the cannon barrel for 15-20 seconds so no one can shoot with a destroyed one. After repair, apply the nerv.

2.) Add a similar procedure for the breach and add a "quick repair" nerv for reload speed, ... lets say base reload - loading crew skill * 0,4 - 0,5.

3.) Add a single use FPE for all stock tanks and with reserching the FPE module you get access to the current 2 uses or even 3.

 

Hope it helps to Improve the game! o7

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6 minutes ago, Ouiche said:

 

This system may evolve depending of the feedback, the devs had a couple of viable models / solutions in mind.

Certainly moving to an Ab-lite system would be more forgiving, but at that point there might as well be 1 game mode between the two. And I don't think that this system will really increase the quality of engagements because of how forgiving it is. under the proposed system you would be able to take immense amounts of fire and still be relatively combat effective. And how would this affect the light tanks ingame? Does the t92 become even less effective with it's pathetic heat shell, or the m56 without aphe? The conqueror will certainly not appreciate this, given it's reload is almost as long as it takes to start moving around again. 

And if this is following the AB system, there is almost no incentive to repair in combat, A destroyed module breaks once but will continue to function when it gets damaged repeatedly. 

 

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Please, NO.

 

 

This makes RB another step closer to AB, next step would be giving us the white cross that shows where the shell lands and it simply become AB.

 

Just don't do this things, it's just pointless.

As we all keep on saying the only right thing is this

No parts: longer repair times

Parts: current repair times

No FPE: only one fire can be set off

FPE: you can set off two fires and it could be reloaded in cap-zones

 

END OF THE STORY.

All the other stuff is just making Realistic Arcade Battles with nothing realistic except for the name.

 

And let's not talk about the thing that, if this will be implemented, only AP shells will be nerfed to half penetration but HE, HEAT and HESH will keep the penetration, can't you see how silly this thing sound?

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1 hour ago, Ouiche said:
A disabled engine entirely blocks a vehicle’s movement for 20 seconds, after which 40% of its original function is restored.

A disabled transmission entirely blocks the vehicle’s movement for 20 seconds, after which the gear shift range is reduced by half.

Guys my KV-2 and IS need more time to reload. 

Make it 40 seconds please. :crab:

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I think Parts should be in a limited numbers like 1-2 as are FPE, and you should be able to choose which damage repair. Parts should be use to "fix" a damage, not rebuild a destroyed piece of equipment.

 

Thus in AB everything is possibile.


In RB

1-2 Parts only

Destroyed equipment fixed to a status like the rules you presented now

Full recovery only on CAP and respawn point.

 

Sim

1-2 Parts

Only Non-destroyed equipment damage can be fixed

Full recovery only on respawn point.

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18 minutes ago, Hardmoor said:

but HESH actually needs velocity to spread out correctly unlike HEAT and HE

 

Mm... need to have a loot at that, could be a special case.

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I have a single discrepancy, I think if you break the engine should not block, you should be able to release the transmission and so if you are on a slope by the same gravity the tank will lower.

 

This is a mechanic that was before in the game and it was very good, but you guys took it out.

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I feel like this is a change for the better, but I think the timer to fix should be changed to a repair similar to what it is now so the tank still has to stop. If the parts are researched then a full repair can be done. Also I think the barrel should be left so it cannot be shot out of when damaged, until it is repaired (with or without the parts modification). 

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I like most of these changes; it helps make tank RB a bit more attractive to play in a stock vehicle than simply resorting to tank assault or tank AB to get the essential mods. Still not addressing the stock (or lack thereof) FPE problem however! Sure these changes make tank RB a bit less "realistic" like in the specific percentages or increments of traverse (those will need testing and tweaking), but for the sake of gameplay, these are welcome changes imo.

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This is quite the change and I can see the appeal to most players, though looking at this from a more "Skilled" point of view, this completes negates the use of tactics in RB, effectively turning the game mode into a more, arcade type of feel.

 

I.e disabling movement and/or Offensive capabilities of say one or several vehicles during an extended engagement (Taking out guns of multiple opponents), though the added 20 seconds of being entirely disabled is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

The current system of being aided by teammates actually benefits the player by having said players rely on proper teamwork by capping points and sticking together, so I believe the change is unnecessary and is excellent in it's current state.

 

The flip side, playing at mostly mid to top tier where the reload rates are usually well below 10 seconds for most vehicles, this doesnt seem like it would affect much in terms of gameplay, though it makes things far more crucial in disabling multiple modules such as tracks and other components. 

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That just sounds like AB with extra steps. While I like the idea of having the possibility to operate your tank without parts, what I don´t like is that this would be faster than repairing the normal way and a fixed time on top of that. What I would like is to see those effects after the normal repair time if you repair without parts. That would make the parts a valuable modification, would still make it neccessary to repair and you wouldn´t just need to wait to regain combat effectiveness. So in short: The time should be the same as for the normal repair and you should need to actively repair (just without the mod), so that you are unable to move. This would espescially benefit tanks with a reload time of above 20s.

Edited by FaafVonFasslich
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How about adding a new mechanic so everytime you shoot the engines/transmissions resets/doubles the field repair time, or make it scalar to your crew count percentage? Even though 20 seconds is not that fast (a maxed crew can repair a down engine below 20 seconds), it will still be punishing to the shooter if he does not manages to reload on time.

Disable the engine/transmission field repair feature if the tank is on fire. This will encourage tanks to set the enemy on fire 3 times and usage of FPE.

Also remove the ability to fire with broken barrel, yeah.

Elevation/Traverse can stay as if you like.
 

53 minutes ago, Omen09 said:

For example

If you are in kv-2 and shoot someone leaving 2 crew members, they would never get repairs in time for you not to end them with second shot.

Now with magically 20s on engine, they will just run away. 


Not if their crew have maxed field repairs and can repair the barrels and engines on time before you reload lol.
 

And now this is more practical if you lads have bad aim or facing a damn Abrams

53 minutes ago, Omen09 said:

Not to mention some top tier tanks with 1500 hp, they will be still very mobile with black engine..

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