Ouiche

[Development] New repair and damage mechanics in Ground Vehicle Realistic Battles

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We would like to add a small explanation and emphasize, once again that the purpose of the changes is to make the game in vehicles with unresearched modifications more enjoyable.

 

We do not plan to change the basics of the gameplay in RB with these changes nor how any damage caused affects the game situation. Now, if you have caused functional damage to an enemy, you have some time to destroy him fully but if you did not succeed in doing this the enemy will be able to repair after some time and become dangerous to you again. You still cannot count on the absence of the modification "parts" from the enemy when you fight them. This will remain in the new mechanics, only that those who have not researched the modification will have an improved chance, for example, to get to a capture point and fix it there or approach an ally who can help with the repair and sometimes cover you in a hopeless situation.

 

We are ready to consider various options for these mechanics based on the results of discussions, for example, to do something with damaged gun barrels for a period of time (comparable to the repair kit/parts) in complete disabling of firing, or not to change the mechanics of damaged weapons at all and return only mobility. In our experience the designated critical damage to a gun is serious enough so we decided that it was possible to implement it for RB in this way. But a significant amount of criticism in the mechanics associated with weapons makes us think about other options. Therefore, we expect practical constructive proposals and dialogue from you.

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8 minutes ago, Acmetexo said:

Does this affect the chemical rounds like CHEAT-FS, HE and HESH?


Great question - it will only affect the projectile muzzle velocity and accuracy, not the projectile itself. 500gr of explosive is still 500gr of explosive no matter the speed.

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Nope... nope nope nope... dont turn 'RB' in to AB+ rly guys plz cause next step is turn SB in to RB...

 

Long time ago we had HB and that was rly nice so why you cut down our SL rewards and put that arcade system in to REALISTIC battle?

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I like it i guess. And since it's in RB it's hopefully won't be as crazy as AB. It helps when when your stock mainly so why not?

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I personally disagree with these changes for the following reasons

 

1. What you've done with the FPE and parts is good enough. Reducing the cost in top tier and all of the other additions are working fine. 

 

2. The proposed additions are making it too similar to arcade. Yes i do understand that if your breach gets shot out early game you can't do anything until someone helps you or until you get to a cap but the things you implemented to help with this problem is working. 

 

If you have any criticism to my points let me know so we can talk 

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This is a fantastic idea on how to make the stock grind for vehicles so much less of a pain. However, this still doesn't completely solve the problem of fires completely knocking a tank out of commission without FPE. Admittedly, if your engine gets set on fire, then potentially you could still make it back to a cap if a teammate deals with the problematic enemy, but I'm wondering how the damage caused by the fire will affect this reduced performance your engine will have after its been disabled? I think the easiest solution would be to implement this new system for damage to modules and give stock tanks one charge of FPE. It's especially important in something like tier VI battles, where a single well-placed shot from across the map can completely end your game by simply hitting a fuel tank. Still, progress is progress, and I'm really glad you guys are taking this community criticism seriously and coming up with a solution for it that, at least on paper, seems like it will work quite well.

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These changes would definitely help with the stock grind on most of the tanks that suffer most from it, But this seems to destroy quite a few gameplay aspects of RB.

On quite a few tanks ingame the only thing you can do while stock (challenger) is to disable parts of a tank while sniping crew. If i'm stuck with shell types that cannot reliably kill tanks, and with the coming changes cannot reliably disable tanks either how is this supposed to help?  Many tanks that suffer from poor ammunition choices also suffer from low survivability, even if the accuracy is reduced by 20 any incoming fire will kill the tank. And not to mention the impact on tanks with longer reloads, placing an even greater importance on APHE in the meta.

 

While being able to move with damage will probably not affect gameplay very significantly, It is worth pointing out that even an abrams with 40% of it's engine power will still happily go along at 20+kph 

 

This post seems like a knee jerk reaction to the FPE and parts aftermath, And while I don't really agree with the narrative that these changes will turn rb into ab+ (it already is) they seem to be more of a bandaid for some of the deeper issues ingame. Getting disabled 20 seconds into a battle because you spawned in an open field with no cover is not an issue of "fixing" the various game mechanics that keep you stuck in place for the rest of the game, It's a map design issue.

 

Take middle east for example, The right spawn gets 2 gigantic hills to sit on top of that look directly into BOTH spawns while the other side gets a single hill with worse coverage and can just about see into spawn.

And none of the proposed changes will change any of this. 

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basicly this mechanic is from AB and just get copied-pasted to RB?

 

another suggestion for you guys: double the repair time without parts (because how can a tank be able to move 20 secsafter you shot it in the engine :beee:) and another way to put out fire if you don't want to give give players 1 free fpe ( like use teammate fpe .etc )

 

please consider another way to do this, because i don't want to get killed by a tank with broken gun after i've destroyed his gun :dntknw:

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I love the change, however i'd tweak those "emergancy repair" times adding abou 10 more seconds to the timer: we dont want to take the prize wawy from a guy who scored a good hit. We just wamt to avoid being useless for the rest of the battle. 

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5 minutes ago, Ouiche said:


Great question - it will only affect the projectile muzzle velocity and accuracy, not the projectile itself. 500gr of explosive is still 500gr of explosive no matter the speed.

but HESH actually needs velocity to spread out correctly unlike HEAT and HE

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No plans for adding Repair station in spawn points? 

 

Some mods only have one capture point

 

Plus I think Tank with ATGM will have too big advantage. Just Engine repair will be enough, as you can move to capture points.

Edited by hybride1025
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At least i would do something like 30 second to for the "free repair", because 20 is less then almost most of Parts repair time (also we are speaking of an improved repair... since the turret damages do not needs the vehicles to be stationary for what i can understand) so my point is:
30ish seconds time + the vehicle needed to be stationary: it's actually a worse repair than with Parts... so it's OK to me
20 seconds time + vehicle able to move while "reparing" turrets components: i see it as a boost of the normal repair
even if the damn gun can't perform at it's best... this will put on a HUGE disadvantage weakly armored vehicles, because no metter what: half of your pen is enough to knock them out!

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49 minutes ago, Oldschool22 said:

This is a very good change for realistic, now about that FPE...

The proposition makes RB AB+ without name tags, the improved mobility, and the pen assist. Im against making RB like AB and this concept is one step closer to making it AB+

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I appreciate your job gaijin in that matter, really, but... You shouldn't go from one extreme to the other.
Okay, so. I'm against those changes. Why? Becase we all know that we're going to meet a lot more Light vehicles in the future on the battlefield that can repair us. Just raise the sl and rp they get for being MBT technical support. Also, I do think that lowering cost of RP needed to research parts and FPE is enough. Now on top tier battles in RB you only need to play like 10 battles to have parts. Just give extra 10 or 20 free repairs and that's gonna be it. Really, it's too much. I want to play RB, not AB+. I can't imagine situation that i will critically hit someone, and switch targets, because i have to, and my first target will have possibility to escape after 20 seconds.

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13 minutes ago, blackheart1996 said:

So I have one suggestion about fire prevention;

 

I've been playing for years now, and gotten used to the No Parts and Fire prevention for years now, grown to it you might say.

 

Most of tanks (not saying all) had their own way of putting out fires;

For stock tanks, why not have 1 fire prevention and system in place, and upgraded version of Fire prevention adds an extra use to the FPE (or up to 3 maybe?)

 

Most/All Tank crews (United States) had a method of putting out fires such as the HFE system (ref: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/el/fire_research/R0601286.pdf )

PZUnqZz.png

 

Tanks such as the Abrams Tank had those inside aswell.

I know when people provide links to websites they want as much evidence as possible

The US department of labor September 12, 1986 required everyone (including the department of defense) to have training with HFE systems/(all) fire prevent systems. (ref: https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1986-09-12)

 

In fairness, we should have single use Fire prevention system for anything with the year '86 and newer, (and hopefully the older tanks as well.)

 

[As per say in the united states not speaking for all nations]

 

Hopefully we get something similar for all nations at best.

 

 

 

Yup - thats also needed. Ive been saying this for a while: modern mbt's are really prone to be set on fire as their tanks are part of the crew protection system against shaped charge projectiles and covered with little to no armor themselves

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I don't think this is a good idea. Gaijin already reduced parts and fpe costs as well as made it faster to get to fpe after parts. If they add this, I think it will partially nullify the ingame repair mechanic. Also, you might as well repair fully after getting hit because why wait 20 seconds so you can move your turret at a snails pace, when you can repair fully, and get 100% functionality back. Sure, it might come in clutch sometimes, but I dont think it's worth it. There's nothing wrong with getting destroyed. I think that at a certain point, some players just want to never die, no matter how many times they get hit. Making tanks more and more difficult to destroy will not improve RB. RB is a special game mode and it's not called realistic for nothing. If you get hit in the breech and the transmission, and you dont have parts, then thats just unlucky and there's nothing you can do. At this point, Gaijin should just remove parts altogether. I think War Thunder is a phenomenal game and has something that WoTs doesn't have. A full damage model. Gaijin added this for a reason, and they added parts for a reason too. If players want to drive when ther engine is destroyed and shoot when their breech is red, then they should play arcade. And if players want to take penetrating hits that don't affect the funcionality of their tank, they should play WoTs. We really appreciate that you gave us a compromise when we cried for free parts and fpe, and I appreciate that you still want to do stuff with parts, but this is too much. I think it will be frustrating to quick repair but not be able to escape or shoot back because you're too slow or don't have enough gun traverse, elevation, or depression. If I'm going to repair I'm going to fully repair or die trying. I don't want a crappy middle ground where my tank functions less than half as well after 20 seconds. And times when it does work and I am able to escape or shoot back, it will only be frustrating for the other player, because he should've secured that kill. It's not realistic to decrease repair times. Already, repair times are in a good place where they can disable a tank for a good 25-30 seconds. I don't want to spend slightly less time to get a significantly worse result. My rant is over. Thank you Gaijin for keeping in touch with your playerbase. It means alot to have my voice heard. 

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34 minutes ago, Dms110 said:

What's the catch?

The entire thing.... People don't want RB becoming AB+. The entire idea is bad and takes away the point of playing RB. People play RB to get a more realistic feel and not have things magically repair and work again 

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I don't like this idea, only if it was for Arcade Battles, If I was playing realistic or sim then if I shoot your barrel and you kill me back even with a black barrel then it will anger me. If this was implemented for AB where you can grind for your FPE and Parts then yes but not in sim or realistic.

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5 minutes ago, Panda_God_TM said:

These changes would definitely help with the stock grind on most of the tanks that suffer most from it, But this seems to destroy quite a few gameplay aspects of RB.

 

This system may evolve depending of the feedback, the devs had a couple of viable models / solutions in mind.

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37 minutes ago, Omen09 said:

If you are in kv-2 and shoot someone leaving 2 crew members, they would never get repairs in time for you not to end them with second shot.

Now with magically 20s on engine, they will just run away. 

Not to mention some top tier tanks with 1500 hp, they will be still very mobile with black engine..

and if they had parts they would just repair and run away faster? It's literally just basic repairs on the engine that would take shorter anyway.

 

39 minutes ago, Omen09 said:

If you are in tank destroyer and some fast tank come at yuo and if you hit his gun he have to stop for repairs.

Now he will just drive around you and pray for lucky shot, as you can not do ****

And a barrel is not needed to fire a round as long as there is nothing obstructing the round.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Zafranorbian said:

Those changes sound verry nice and are something I am compleatly for. it gives vehicles a fighting chance without being a cheap out that negates dealt damage.

I think tanks already have a fighting chance. And maybe stock vehicles don't have as much of a chance, but that's why Gaijin made it easier to get parts and fpe.

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Interesting and in my opinion good idea.
But one question:
Lets say I disabled my enemies engine.
He does not have the repair kit, which results in him repairing it only partialy with this new system.
What will happen if I shoot his Engine again, while it is still only partialy repaired?
I would really like it if another partial/field repair has to be performed and that my shot has not been wasted.

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1 minute ago, Ouiche said:

 

This system may evolve depending of the feedback, the devs had a couple of viable models / solutions in mind.

Do any of those viable models / solutions keep the aspects of RB and not continue to change it to AB+? If there are im sure the community will appreciate it if you propose them to all of us. The entire flaw with this proposition is that its making RB AB+ and the RB community doesn't like that 

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