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Amunition load out Emden


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The Emden can carry 960 shells!

If you unlock it comes with 960 he shells in stock as soon as you get the ap shells you can only carry 360 of them even when you take all other shells out.Same with base fuzed he only 360 are allowed to load! So when you now have both shell types unlocked you have only 2 slots for shells and this means if you take the 360 ap shells and the 360 he base fuzed you are loaded with 720/960 shells and not able to load more ammo for mainguns

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you might complain about this but the emden has the e100 main gun round this is not realistic and the gun is not made to shoot it

 

the emden in real life had ww1 shells modified made slightly shorter with a new cap this means the shell has some of the poorest 150mm performance in the intire world and beyond 4km firing he has more pen 

(i wish i was joking) the gun has approximately 60mm pen at 3200 m and 20mm at 11km range 

 

original gun equipped before refit

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-45_skc16.php

 

gun after refit (the 150mm tbts is for emden and the other 150mm is for the nurnberg)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-60_skc25.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-48_skc36.php

the first one is for comparison because its the same round in a longer gun by 12 calibers which increases muzzle velocity the muzzle velocities for each gun goes as follows

 

960 and 835

it uses this shell 

the shell in game that it has is the

15 cm Pzgr. L/3,8 (m.Hb)

15 cm Pzgr. L/3,7 (m.Hb)

and the bottom shell noted here is the irl one

the top one is the one designed for the e100 being a newer and longer shell which has WAYYY better performance

 

not to mention the emden after refit did not have armor piercing shells for it

before the refit it used 1920s guns and after it lost its xxxx apc 

 

Edited by chrkiiler
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1 hour ago, chrkiiler said:

 

I Have been proven incorrect.

 

Now after digging through everything you've linked and nothing is supporting what you're saying.

 

I cannot find any evidence of the main guns being changed during refits, as in it kept the 15cm SK/L45 guns fpr the whole of its service life.

 

The only thing im able to believe is that the Emden shouldnt have the AP it currently does but that is because GJ straght up created AP for the german Destroyers. 

Edited by the_suztown
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39 minutes ago, the_suztown said:

Now after digging through everything you've linked and nothing is supporting what you're saying.

 

I cannot find any evidence of the main guns being changed during refits, as in it kept the 15cm SK/L45 guns fpr the whole of its service life.

 

The only thing im able to believe is that the Emden shouldnt have the AP it currently does but that is because GJ straght up created AP for the german Destroyers. 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-48_skc36.php#Gun_Characteristics

 

Left table, "Ship Class Used On". i'l take a closer look if you want.

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33 minutes ago, Lord_of_Sofa said:

Left table, "Ship Class Used On". i'l take a closer look if you want.

Mhm completely missed That, the mobile view is terrible.

 

But I am still trying to source the claim that it was 're equipped, hell finding records on Emden's refits is a struggle.

 

Edited by the_suztown
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1 hour ago, the_suztown said:

Now after digging through everything you've linked and nothing is supporting what you're saying.

 

I cannot find any evidence of the main guns being changed during refits, as in it kept the 15cm SK/L45 guns fpr the whole of its service life.

 

The only thing im able to believe is that the Emden shouldnt have the AP it currently does but that is because GJ straght up created AP for the german Destroyers. 

You can also use Wiki article

Quote

In 1942, two of the four torpedo launchers were removed, and she was rearmed with a new model of 15 cm gun.[3] This gun was the Tbts KC/36 model, and was designed for use on destroyers. It fired a slightly smaller 40 kg (88 lb) shell at a higher muzzle velocity—875 m/s (2,870 ft/s). The gun could elevate to 47 degrees for a maximum range of 23,500 m (77,100 ft)

 

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4 minutes ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

The gun could elevate to 47 degrees for a maximum range of 23,500 m (77,100 ft)

Mhmmm now this is something it cannot do in game, whether through the aiming system of the guns elevation being limited it can only achive about a 15km range.

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5 hours ago, the_suztown said:

But I am still trying to source the claim that it was 're equipped, hell finding records on Emden's refits is a struggle.

Good luck with that. Gröner is the only one who claims that the guns were changed, but apparently there are no hard sources..

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There's no doubt Emden got new guns after the refit. But I'm really concerning if she had ever equipped with AP cuz there's no source showing KC/36 gun has AP as it's designed for destroyers. However there's no source saying "cruiser Emden didn't have AP" either, and it becomes particularly tricky as 15cm SK C/25 which was equipped on other Geman CLs do had AP: I couldn't find any sources telling me if SK C/25's AP is compatible with KC/36 or not.

Edited by HK_Reporter
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This site gives a pretty good summary of naval weapons for all countries - http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-48_skc36.php

 

The entry for the SKC36 shows no AP ammo - just base and nose fused HE - I guess the base fused would be the equivalent of British Common Pointed.

 

the SKC25 entry has AP ammo listed.

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1 hour ago, Josephs_Piano said:

This site gives a pretty good summary of naval weapons for all countries - http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-48_skc36.php

 

The entry for the SKC36 shows no AP ammo - just base and nose fused HE - I guess the base fused would be the equivalent of British Common Pointed.

 

the SKC25 entry has AP ammo listed.

I've reported Emden is unlikely to have AP in KotS forums before but the moderator said "it has been previously reported".

Same as German destroyer's wehraboo AP, nothing has changed.

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5 minutes ago, HK_Reporter said:

I've reported Emden is unlikely to have AP in KotS forums before but the moderator said "it has been previously reported".

Same as German destroyer's wehraboo AP, nothing has changed.

 

yeah - after I posted that I noticed i was just repeating what had been written already! :)

 

I think you left a word out tho - ".....nothing has changed YET" - there's an unreasonable assumption among players that changing stuff should occur immediately after reporting - bu that is not how the real world works - if people had a bit more of an inkling of reality there'd be fewer outrages about "they did nothing about my report" - whereas that report (assuming it was any good!) is wending its way through assessment, moving up from the bottom of a pile of other reports that are being dealt with, fix, fix testing, QA, then maybe a bit of waiting for a patch bundle.

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12 hours ago, chrkiiler said:

you might complain about this but the emden has the e100 main gun round this is not realistic and the gun is not made to shoot it

 

the emden in real life had ww1 shells modified made slightly shorter with a new cap this means the shell has some of the poorest 150mm performance in the intire world and beyond 4km firing he has more pen 

(i wish i was joking) the gun has approximately 60mm pen at 3200 m and 20mm at 11km range 

 

original gun equipped before refit

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-45_skc16.php

 

gun after refit (the 150mm tbts is for emden and the other 150mm is for the nurnberg)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-60_skc25.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_59-48_skc36.php

the first one is for comparison because its the same round in a longer gun by 12 calibers which increases muzzle velocity the muzzle velocities for each gun goes as follows

 

960 and 835

it uses this shell 

the shell in game that it has is the

15 cm Pzgr. L/3,8 (m.Hb)

15 cm Pzgr. L/3,7 (m.Hb)

and the bottom shell noted here is the irl one

the top one is the one designed for the e100 being a newer and longer shell which has WAYYY better performance

 

not to mention the emden after refit did not have armor piercing shells for it

before the refit it used 1920s guns and after it lost its xxxx apc 

 

actually there are armor piercing rounds for 15cm TKC/36.
"identification of the parameters of naval artillery" list majority of naval AP/SAP rounds, unlucky it don't give name for them only basic parameters and even then not always complete...

APCBC - 45.3kg, 835m/s, burst charge 1.95% (0.88kg).  Emden (re-armed), 'O-PQ', Z23 - Z34,

 

CPC round: common pointed capped, with is reinforced base fuse HE round with mild steel cap

 

two next are SAPBC rounds, but SAP are also considered base fuse HE rounds.

1 is current base fuse shell

2 SAPBC is different: 40kg, 875m/s, burst charge 9.73% (0.88kg)
 

12.7cm Destroyers have only base fuse HE..

 

Edited by arczer25
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4 hours ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

yeah - after I posted that I noticed i was just repeating what had been written already! :)

 

I think you left a word out tho - ".....nothing has changed YET" - there's an unreasonable assumption among players that changing stuff should occur immediately after reporting - bu that is not how the real world works - if people had a bit more of an inkling of reality there'd be fewer outrages about "they did nothing about my report" - whereas that report (assuming it was any good!) is wending its way through assessment, moving up from the bottom of a pile of other reports that are being dealt with, fix, fix testing, QA, then maybe a bit of waiting for a patch bundle.

I'm not asking something like "immediate change" because the report regarding German DD's AP wasn't written by me, and I'm pretty sure it had been left there for quite a few patches throughout more than half a year. Also, I'm the one who reported the historical inaccuracies of AAVT, and Gaijin soon nerfed it according to my reports just two patches afterwards, you see they're pretty efficient and dutifully when nerfing recreating other countries but when it touches German ships they just refuse to nerf ANYTHING. I'm pretty sure it's much easier to just delete an unhistorical ammo than reworking the influence-characteristics and lethality of AAVT.

Edited by HK_Reporter
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this does not change the fact that the emden has HORRIBLY OVERPERFORMING shells to the point they are over 4 times as good 

even considering the nurnburgs guns these guns not only had longer barrel lenght but also faster muzzle velocity and only achieved a penetration of 60mm at 3200 meters 

with the emdens guns this would be even worse probably sitting at around 50 or less mm pen at 3200 meters with the shorter barrel and slower shells in addition to this as someone already pointed out ap shells might not even have existed

 

(i am currently looking through some documents on all german ww2 shells il see if i can find shells for the emdens guns

 

9 hours ago, arczer25 said:

actually there are armor piercing rounds for 15cm TKC/36.
"identification of the parameters of naval artillery" list majority of naval AP/SAP rounds, unlucky it don't give name for them only basic parameters and even then not always complete...

APCBC - 45.3kg, 835m/s, burst charge 1.95% (0.88kg).  Emden (re-armed), 'O-PQ', Z23 - Z34,

 

CPC round: common pointed capped, with is reinforced base fuse HE round with mild steel cap

 

two next are SAPBC rounds, but SAP are also considered base fuse HE rounds.

1 is current base fuse shell

2 SAPBC is different: 40kg, 875m/s, burst charge 9.73% (0.88kg)
 

12.7cm Destroyers have only base fuse HE..

 

15cm TKC/36 this is not the gun the emden uses so it matters not if it has ap shells as the emden in game does not use these guns 

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59 minutes ago, chrkiiler said:

15cm TKC/36 this is not the gun the emden uses so it matters not if it has ap shells as the emden in game does not use these guns 

its the same its just short of "15 cm/48 (5.9") Tbts KC/36"

Tbts KC/36 = TKC/36

 

also it clearly states Emden (re-armed)

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2 hours ago, arczer25 said:

its the same its just short of "15 cm/48 (5.9") Tbts KC/36"

Tbts KC/36 = TKC/36

 

also it clearly states Emden (re-armed)

yeah sorry i thought you meant the 15cm/35 (since the 35 was so close to 36) 

 

on another note can you provide a source of the ammo type existing this includes info of the shell actually being used on the emden

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44 minutes ago, chrkiiler said:

yeah sorry i thought you meant the 15cm/35 (since the 35 was so close to 36) 

 

on another note can you provide a source of the ammo type existing this includes info of the shell actually being used on the emden

i already sad source: "identification of the parameters of naval artillery" with is list of armor and semi armor piercing rounds.

 

 


hVfcCy2.png
 

 

JUrJ4Vf.png

SAPBC are base fuse HE rounds.

about if Emden used that round someone would need to dig its ammo load-out's, but still round is here.

i was also looking at previous Emden guns

hBLGCCo.png

this book list older SKL/45 used by Emden as having both Early AP round and New AP rounds

 

at last by look of it 15 cm Pzgr. L/3,7 was adopted for use by most German Naval 15cm guns

its listed for:

late 15cm SKL/45

15cm SKC/28

15cm SKC/25

and

15cm TKC/36

 

it looks fitting as 15cm SKL/45 and 15cm SKC/28 used similar 150 x 865 mm cartridge (albeit SKL/45 had less propellant with explain lower MV) and 15cm SKC/28 share with 15cm TKC/36  base fuze HE: 15 cm Spgr. L/4,6 Bdz, then 15cm SKC/25 round is bit heavier because it used larger 150 x 1192 mm cartridge

 

   

 

Edited by arczer25
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hint: navweaps is incorrect in many points, especially ammunition. I'm digging throug primary sources from the Kriegsmarine and there are two wartime manuals in english language about german ordonance. These three sources usually match while navweaps tells completely different things. Still Gaijins values often match with navweaps :facepalm:

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On 13/11/2018 at 05:09, A3nur said:

Hint: navweaps is incorrect in many points, especially ammunition. I'm digging throug primary sources from the Kriegsmarine and there are two wartime manuals in english language about german ordonance. These three sources usually match while navweaps tells completely different things. Still Gaijins values often match with navweaps :facepalm:

in order to actually gain credibility then i need you to directly quote anything else simply stating the info we provided saying its wrong and not providing any data or info in return does not make for a good argument

 

even primary sources from countries arent always right this can be shown by the japanese overevaluating their type 90s armor and the guy measuring the power of the shells used getting it wrong thus them ending up with wrong data on their own tanks 

(this is the japanese government taking data we are talking about) 

 

 

 

in addition to this the navyweps author has 82 stated books as sources that you can go look at and buy and look through and send a correction if you find anything

 

or find anything which can be backed up by reliable authors 

i do not believe any ap shells existed for the emdens gun simply because i cant find it 

 

i looked through german listings of all their shells no ap for the emden but it does have the sap ammo mentioned earlier

 

the emden pre retrofit did have ap shells but post retrofit did not

Edited by chrkiiler
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  • 1 year later...
On 31/10/2018 at 13:22, the_suztown said:

The only thing im able to believe is that the Emden shouldnt have the AP it currently does but that is because GJ straght up created AP for the german Destroyers. 

 

But then it should go to a lower BR.

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