Chi-Ha TG (Torpedo Tank)

[onemax9000 1,236]

 

 

In the late 30's Japan began experimenting with bunker busters and anti tank use to support infantry in china. First produced in 1943. The rocket launched from its engine deck had detonating cords affixed. The tank also had a rocket launcher at the MG position on the turret. The turret was replaced by a long turnable firing device for four long Bangalore torpedoes. The vehicle drove near the obstacle and fired a charge at it using a spring mechanism on the rear end of the firing device.  Another trial was to use a Type 97 Chi-Ha as special wire obstacle clearing tank. One method was to use a field torpedo, similar to a Bangalore but with more explosive power, to take out bunkers and tanks. A few were produced and proved useful against Chinese tanks of the era. It had also been tested with a rocket model of the torpedo to propel the distance. It launched a Bangalore torpedo affixed to a rocket. Standard could go from 10-150 meters with the infantry torpedo Type 99. The TG anti concrete rocket doubled the effective range to 300-450 meters. It could also fire even further but it became very inaccurate. 

 

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Hull blueprint:

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Specifications Chi-Ha TG:

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Specifications (Chi-Ha TG )
Weight	14.3 tonnes (15.8 tons) to 15.2 tonnes (16.8 tons)
Length	5.50 m (18 ft 1 in)
Width	2.33 m (7 ft 8 in)
Height	2.21 m (7 ft 3 in)
Crew	4
Armor	8–25 mm
Main armament	Bangalore torpedo type 99
Engine	Mitsubishi SA12200VD air-cooled V-12 diesel (21.7 litres) 170 hp (127 kW) at 2,000 rpm
Power/weight	11.3 hp/tonne
Suspension	Bell crank
Operational range	210 km (130 mi)
Speed	38 km/h (24 mph)

 

BANGALORE TORPEDO TYPE 99:

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Specifications BANGALORE TORPEDO TYPE 99:

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Over-all length (one tube)		46 inches (approximately).
Diameter		2 inches.
Weight (one tube)		10 pounds.
Fuze delay		6 to 7 seconds (approximately).
Charge composition		TNT 36 percent. Cyclonite 64 percent.

Length		36 inches.
Width		3.5 inches.
Height		2 inches.
Charge		6 pounds picric acid.
Form		Oval cross section.
Color		Olive drab.
Fuze		4 pressure type shear wire fuzes inside base—pressure about 300 pounds.

 

loading area

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The arm could also be extended 

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source

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https://imgur.com/gallery/vUFS0

http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/TManual/9_1985_4/Chap03/Section01/FIG_162.HTM

https://www.ioffer.com/i/japanese-intelligence-report-bangalore-torpedo-523793574

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/handbook-japanese-military/japanese-grenades.html

http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2016/05/imperial-japanese-explosives-land-mines_16.html

https://www.ioffer.com/i/japanese-intelligence-report-bangalore-torpedo-ebay-596174978

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/handbook-japanese-military/japanese-grenades.html

http://quanonline.com/book/chapter-9/weapons-b.html

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by onemax9000

[Princess_Pinch 5,622]

Open for discussion. 

[aizenns 3,584]

I think this tank is fit for Event or Gift.

But it seems very fun!

[Tasty95215 2,092]

Oh god, it’s like the Churchill AVRE in range. You mentioned a TG anti concrete rocket that had a range of 300-450 meters, right? Is there any information on how it differed from the standard Type 99 torpedo?

 

That being said, I’m all for this monstrosity.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Tasty95215

[[email protected] 1,411]

The source is interesting. Excellent suggestion that has been well investigated. +1

[onemax9000 1,236]

Just now, Tasty95215 said:

Oh god, it’s like the Churchill AVRE in range. You mentioned a TG anti concrete rocket that had a range of 300-450 meters, right? Is there any information on how it differed from the standard Type 99 torpedo?

 

That being said, I’m all for this monstrosity.

I,ll try my best its hard to get any more info about the tank

[Tasty95215 2,092]

Here are some pages I found on the bangalore from the document Japanese Explosive Ordnance:

 

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Also, looking at the specifications for the Type 99 bangalore listed above, it seems that those actually refer to two different weapons according to the sources, although I'm not sure which is which. From the files I linked above, one of them may have been made of bamboo.

 

Quote

m. Bangalore torpedo. (1) General description. This is the standard bangalore torpedo (fig. 205) for the Japanese Army. It has a pull type delay fuze and is threaded at each end to permit an indefinite number of tubes to be attached end to end. Because of the type of fuze, it may be used in a booby trap, with the igniter string tied to a trip wire.

 

Figure 205. Bangalore torpedo.

 

Over-all length (one tube)		46 inches (approximately).
Diameter		2 inches.
Weight (one tube)		10 pounds.
Fuze delay		6 to 7 seconds (approximately).
Charge composition		TNT 36 percent. Cyclonite 64 percent.

(3) Operation. (a) Remove plugs, screw together the selected number of tubes, remove the bullet shaped cap from fuze and place on one end. Screw fuze in place. When ready to detonate the bangalore torpedo, pull out the safety pin, and pull the lanyard (requires about a 13-pound pull). The fuze delay will be approximately 6 to 7 seconds.

 

Note. Another bangalore type land mine which may be an antitank mine has been found. Its characteristics are as follows:

 

Length		36 inches.
Width		3.5 inches.
Height		2 inches.
Charge		6 pounds picric acid.
Form		Oval cross section.
Color		Olive drab.
Fuze		4 pressure type shear wire fuzes inside base—pressure about 300 pounds.

 

Finally, here are two pages from the Japanese Wikipedia on their WW2 bangalores:

• https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/九八式五糎投擲機
• https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/九九式破壊筒

 

I can't read Japanese that well, but the first one seems to say "Type 98 Mortar" and the second says "Type 99 bangalore". While the mortar is obviously different from the device used on the Chi-Ha TG, they seem to be able to use the same explosive bangalores. The Type 99 bangalore seems to be different from the ones described in the American reports - the diameter was only 35mm among other things, but it seems like it was compatible with the Type 98 mortar.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Tasty95215

[aizenns 3,584]

3 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

I can't read Japanese that well, but the first one seems to say "Type 98 Mortar" and the second says "Type 99 bangalore". While the mortar is obviously different from the device used on the Chi-Ha TG, they seem to be able to use the same explosive bangalores. The Type 99 bangalore seems to be different from the ones described in the American reports - the diameter was only 35mm among other things, but it seems like it was compatible with the Type 98 mortar.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Tasty95215

Type 98, 5cm Thrower can use 2 types of bomb.

One is Exprosive can with handle(in this photo), and another is Type 99 Bangalore with stabilizing wing.

https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/image-j/C01001863000

According to this document page 9

Mass: 25 kg

Head of tube••• Shell shape

•Length: 105 mm

•Bore: 42 mm

Tube•••Steal tube, Able to fill No.2 Pale-yellow exprosive.(二號淡黄薬)

•Length: 115 mm

•Bore: 35 mm

•Wall thickness: 2.6 mm

 

 

Sometime Japanese use bamboo bangarole.

This is replica of auxiliary bangarole used by 爆弾三勇士(bomber 3 heroes)

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by aizenns

[Tasty95215 2,092]

It seems that this tank has been brought up before on the German forums:

 

According to that thread, it seems that before this was used for launching bangalores, it was initially a bridgelaying tank:

 

 

There's a Japanese Wikipedia page on this, but it only focuses on its bridgelaying part: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/超壕機_TG 

One interesting thing to note there was that it apparently used the Chi-He's 240 horsepower engine instead of the Chi-Ha's 170 horsepower engine, so this thing should be at least decently mobile.

[aizenns 3,584]

1 hour ago, Tasty95215 said:

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/超壕機_TG 

Hmm 

Wikipedia says 

SS (SoukouSagyouki) can destroy bunker, have fire thrower, dormer, bridge etc

Reason why develop TG is, SS have too many functions and vehicle speed was not enough. So TG have only one function: launch the bridge.

 

TG(TyouGouki) cannot swing the turret , and did not known such variations in Japan.

This tank design same as TG, but I guess this tank is different vehicle or do Large scale modification.

Edited September 27, 2018 by aizenns

[Admiral_Aruon 2,254]

oh hell yes. a bridge launcher reworked into basically a catapult for anti-tank torpedoes? oh hell yes. +1

 

insane and impractical, but what is basically a japanese RBT-5 lobbing picric acid bombs (FYI picric acid is roughly 1.2x the effectiveness of TNT... at the cost of being REALLY unstable and dangerous to handle) is just too derpy of a vehicle to pass up.

[Tasty95215 2,092]

29 minutes ago, aizenns said:

This tank design same as TG, but this tank is different vehicle or do Large scale modification.

 

That was how I understand it - the TG (bangalore) was either the same vehicle as the TG (bridge) with the bridgelaying equipment removed, or the TG (bangalore) shared the same basic modified Chi-Ha chassis as the TG (bangalore). I do think that it is strange that the page doesn't mention the TG (bangalore) at all - it's not even mentioned on the list of Chi-Ha modifications, too.

[aizenns 3,584]

9 minutes ago, Tasty95215 said:

 

That was how I understand it - the TG (bangalore) was either the same vehicle as the TG (bridge) with the bridgelaying equipment removed, or the TG (bangalore) shared the same basic modified Chi-Ha chassis as the TG (bangalore). I do think that it is strange that the page doesn't mention the TG (bangalore) at all - it's not even mentioned on the list of Chi-Ha modifications, too.

Name of TG says it was designed only for cross the trench.

 

If we can get original source document of this photo ( it seems research report of this tank), we can get name, specification and why design it.

 

In Japan no one know such a vehicle.

Edited September 27, 2018 by aizenns

[onemax9000 1,236]

From what I can tell it uses a motor type launcher. And the Japanese never officially named the tank. 

 

Aslo i I found this they used a weaker bangalore.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by onemax9000

[Tsunirako 84]

1+
It is with great pleasure that I will use this thing!

2 hours ago, onemax9000 said:

From what I can tell it uses a motor type launcher. And the Japanese never officially named the tank. 

 

Aslo i I found this they used a weaker bangalore.

 

I think it's a hull break or just a missing engine. 

[onemax9000 1,236]

 

28 minutes ago, Tsunirako said:

I think it's a hull break or just a missing engine. 

its a hull break

[aizenns 3,584]

22 hours ago, onemax9000 said:

Specifications BANGALORE TORPEDO TYPE 99:

  Hide contents

 

 

Over-all length (one tube)		46 inches (approximately).
Diameter		2 inches.
Weight (one tube)		10 pounds.
Fuze delay		6 to 7 seconds (approximately).
Charge composition		TNT 36 percent. Cyclonite 64 percent.

Length		36 inches.
Width		3.5 inches.
Height		2 inches.
Charge		6 pounds picric acid.
Form		Oval cross section.
Color		Olive drab.
Fuze		4 pressure type shear wire fuzes inside base—pressure about 300 pounds.

 

I find 2 documents by IJA in the JACAR.

爆破用火薬火具九九式破壊筒制式制定の件 (About the adoption of For blasting explosive tool, Type 99 Destroy Tube)

According to this document, Explosive of Type 99 Bangalore iis No.2 pale-yellow explosives (２号淡黄薬)

 

２号淡黄薬制定の件 (About adoption of No.2 pale-yellow explosives)

According to this document, composition of this explosive is

• 硝宇薬(RDX): 55 %
• 茶褐薬(TNT): 38 %
• 茗亜薬(Tetryl): 7 %

[onemax9000 1,236]

3 hours ago, aizenns said:

 

I find 2 documents by IJA in the JACAR.

爆破用火薬火具九九式破壊筒制式制定の件 (About the adoption of For blasting explosive tool, Type 99 Destroy Tube)

According to this document, Explosive of Type 99 Bangalore iis No.2 pale-yellow explosives (２号淡黄薬)

 

２号淡黄薬制定の件 (About adoption of No.2 pale-yellow explosives)

According to this document, composition of this explosive is

• 硝宇薬(RDX): 55 %
• 茶褐薬(TNT): 38 %
• 茗亜薬(Tetryl): 7 %

Now I’m not sure if the American sources are incorrect or this is the TG anti concrete.

[onemax9000 1,236]

While looking for more info about the tank and trying to find the TG anti concrete found these videos with motor type firing rockets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also these 

 

45 mm Type 5 Recoilless Gun 

Calibre: 45 mm (1.77 in) 
Length: 1 m (39.37 in) 
Weight: 6.4 kg (14.01 lb) 
Shell weight: 2.3 kg (5.07 lb) 
Muzzle Velocity: 40 m/sec (131.23 ft/sec) 
Armour penetration: 100 mm (3.9 in) 
Range: 30 m (33 yds) 

70 mm Type 4 Rocket Launcher 

Calibre: 70 mm (2.75 in) 
Length: 1.5 m (59.05 in) 
Weight: 8 kg (18 lb) 
Shlee weight: 4.08 kg (9 lb) 
Armour penetration: 80 mm (3.14 in) 
Range: 750 m (820 yds)

http://jainfantryweapons.weebly.com/...k-weapons.html

This is the Type 4
 

Edited January 17, 2019 by onemax9000

[I_NAMELESS_I 2,888]

Oh God...... How useful is this vehicle is questionable and adding this vehicle means GJ will also has to add a mechanic for it to make the arm extend, would GJ really go that far for a tier 1 vehicle consider how Type 60 SPRG doesn't even has mechanic to allowing its guns to be lowered.

 

Any ideas how many torps it can carry? And where do them stored?

 

Imho i doubt this vehicle  is as useful as chi-ha short and chi-ha short is a below average tank.

Do i want it? No, but i won't be moaning if it actually made to the game.

Edited January 18, 2019 by I_NAMELESS_I

[onemax9000 1,236]

12 hours ago, I_NAMELESS_I said:

Any ideas how many torps it can carry? And where do them stored?

 

Imho i doubt this vehicle  is as useful as chi-ha short and chi-ha short is a below average tank.

Do i want it? No, but i won't be moaning if it actually made to the game.

It is hard to find any info about the chi-ha tg japan didn't officially named the tank if there was name and more info for it it could be lost or waiting to be found.

the closest tank to it is the chi-ha bridgelaying

it had a 240 horsepower engine or a Chi-Ha's 170 horsepower engine.

BANGALORE TORPEDO TYPE 99 could go from 10-150 meters. The TG anti concrete is rocket assisted  doubled the effective range to 300-450 meters It could also fire even further but it became very inaccurate. in br 1.0 your fighting at point blank range i dont think you well have any problems killing tanks the problem is that I couldn't find the TG anti concrete.

crew is 3-4  you can see the chi-ha turret just modified

 

i think this tank well be meme tank 

to extend the arm i think it would take 5 to 10 sec there was a suggestion about making the Ability to close the T-64A's anti-HEAT flaps i think something similar would be used.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by onemax9000

[onemax9000 1,236]

good news everone found bit more info but not much (not to be confused with Chi Ha GS) 

• Type 97 "Mine Clearing Tank GS"

A Type 97 Chi-Ha fitted with rocket launchers. First produced in 1943. The rocket launched from its engine deck had detonating cords affixed. The tank also had a rocket launcher at the MG position on the turret. It launched a Bangalore torpedo affixed to a rocket

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_Type_97_Chi-Ha_variants

[ShimakazeChan 2,389]

Any Chi-Ha Variant Is Welcome In My Book

[Solarmod 1,188]

I need this in the game, SO BADLY! +1 

[[email protected] 12]

+1 Moar Chi-Ha's