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ARADO_AKBAR

[1.79.2.22] Ki-200 Wrong Designation OR Armament

Please note beforehand that despite the title, this is not a double bug report but one with alternate solutions that must be handled in 1 report.

 

1. The full name of the vehicle affected.

 

Ki-200 Shusui

 

 

2. A detailed description of the issue you have or what you see as being erroneous regarding its representation in-game.

 

Historically:

 

Name: Shūsui

Navy Designation: J8M1

Army Designation: Ki-200

 

Shūsui is a joint development by the Navy and Army, the aircraft are manufactured by Mitsubishi and are generally identical. The main difference between J8M1 and Ki-200 are the armament, the Navy and Army do not share aircraft guns. The 30mm aircraft gun of the IJN is Type 5, and IJA is Ho-155. Respectively, J8M1 arms with the Type 5 30mm, and Ki-200 arms with the Ho-155 30mm.

 

In the game, Shūsui named Ki-200 is armed with the Type 5 30mm gun, which is incorrect. Below at #4, I propose 2 possible solutions to this issue.

 

 

3. Unless the data is taken from an official Gaijin statement, please provide a documented test and provide the Client Log from that session.

 

This issue is confirmed by observing the stat card and x-ray view of Ki-200:

 

93ZEAZK.png

 

lxATnMs.png

 

Client Log: 2018_08_24_12_29_31__15068.clog

 

 

4. A detailed description of the fix you suggest. Provide sources including reference that underline your position.

 

There are 2 possible fixes to this problem I suggest:

 

Solution 1:

 

Rename Ki-200 to J8M1 and move it into IJNAF line-

 

                             Before                                                                           After

5zkYVjp.pngLjZ2uOj.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Solution 2 (Alternative):

 

Change Ki-200 armament from 30mm Type 5 to 30mm Ho-155 present on other Army fighters in game-

 

                            Before                                                                 After

HXWnJOA.pngPTX7p38.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources (quoted text below book)

 

Book 1

Spoiler

 

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Japan’s First Rocket Fighter “Shūsui” - Birth of the Liquid Rocket Engine Plane. Written by Hisamitsu Matsuoka. March 2004. ISBN-13: 978-4895223928. Cover, Page 76.

 

1. As a result, the Navy's J8M1 was loaded with two Type 5 30mm machine cannons with a weight of 70kg, and the Army's Ki-200 was equipped with two Ho-105 machine cannons weighing 44kg with the same 30mm caliber.

(NOTE: Ho-105 is a spelling mistake for Ho-155)

 

Book 2

Spoiler

 

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All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army. Written by Minoru Akimoto. January 2008. ISBN-13: 978-4873572338. Cover, Page 258.

 

1. Ho-155-II Experimental 30mm Fixed Machine Cannon

2. Main Models Equipped: Ki-84 Hei, Ki-200, Ki-201, Ki-202

 

Book 3

Spoiler

 

Fyv1YF4.jpg

 

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Prototype and Planned Machines of the Japanese Army 1943-1945. Written by Akira Sahara. April 2006. ISBN-13: 978-4871498012. Cover, Page 71.

 

1. Mitsubishi Ki-200 Prototype Local Fighter [Shūsui]

2. Armed: 30mm Ho-155 Machine Cannon X 2 (For Navy 30mm Type 5 Machine Cannon X2)

 

 


 

(Additonal Note: There is a separate error in which Ho-155 is supposed to have 2 separate models (Ho-155-I & Ho-155-II), but the Ho-155 currently in-game on other planes has the specification of Ho-155-II, which Ki-200 equipped. Because fixing Ho-155 will have little to no effect on Ki-200 if its armament is changed to Ho-155, I am bug-reporting this first.)

Edited by ARADO_AKBAR
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Thank you very much for report, will confirm and backup.

 

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There has been at least 2 other bug reports in the past that were passed for this same problem. Mine was passed around 2 years ago I believe but never addressed. The camos for the Ki-200 ingame are J8M1 prototype ones, and I believe the plane is referred as J8M1 in the files.

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2 hours ago, Goldkoron said:

There has been at least 2 other bug reports in the past that were passed for this same problem. Mine was passed around 2 years ago I believe but never addressed. The camos for the Ki-200 ingame are J8M1 prototype ones, and I believe the plane is referred as J8M1 in the files.

 

Yes, it is a J8M1 in files.

Thanks for letting me know it was previously discussed.

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34 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

Thanks for letting me know it was previously discussed.

 

I did not feel that previous bug reports thoroughly presented the full problem, primarily the alternate solution to simply rename. The renaming solution applies to the same issue, so it cannot be made it's own independent report from this problem. I also saw a lack of reliable references.

 

Because of that reasoning, I don't think this report should be closed due to being previously discussed to an extent. Though, I can understand if it is.

Edited by ARADO_AKBAR
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Problem is moving it to the Navy line means it might discourage players from unlocking the Army fighter line. Perhaps the Sabre's should move to the Army line if the Ki-200 is renamed J8M1?

Edited by Miki_Hoshii
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2 hours ago, Miki_Hoshii said:

Problem is moving it to the Navy line means it might discourage players from unlocking the Army fighter line. Perhaps the Sabre's should move to the Army line if the Ki-200 is renamed J8M1?

 

Actually Id be fine if we had the two variants on the army and navy, although it would make it slightly more diverse if the Type 5 and Ho-155 cannons for both planes had their own respective performances rather than being a copy of each other in game from what Ive heard.

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2 hours ago, Miki_Hoshii said:

Problem is moving it to the Navy line means it might discourage players from unlocking the Army fighter line. Perhaps the Sabre's should move to the Army line if the Ki-200 is renamed J8M1?

@Arado_Ackbar @Miki_Hoshii

I could not find a previous report on this, so this is new.

 

The solution is to change the cannon.

Maybe also a J8M1 added to tree too?

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1 hour ago, kikiri said:

Actually Id be fine if we had the two variants on the army and navy, although it would make it slightly more diverse if the Type 5 and Ho-155 cannons for both planes had their own respective performances rather than being a copy of each other in game from what Ive heard.

 

I am planning to bug report Japanese 30mm guns.

 

3 hours ago, Miki_Hoshii said:

Problem is moving it to the Navy line means it might discourage players from unlocking the Army fighter line. Perhaps the Sabre's should move to the Army line if the Ki-200 is renamed J8M1?

 

1 hour ago, Pony51 said:

@Arado_Ackbar @Miki_Hoshii

I could not find a previous report on this, so this is new.

 

The solution is to change the cannon.

Maybe also a J8M1 added to tree too?

 

I included the alternate solution to rename Ki-200 to J8M1 because it is easier than a slight 3d remodel of the gun's exterior + changing of the gun type itself. But I agree, it is problematic to leave the Army without any jet.

 


 

However, if the ideal solution is to change the gun of the plane in-game to Ho-155, it should be easy to also implement J8M1 to the Navy branch. The planes share airframe (the second Shūsui aircraft completed by Mitsubishi was delivered to the Army as Ki-200) so the 3d model can be reused, bar the gun exterior.

 

In the same way, the plane as it is in game could be renamed to J8M1 and moved to the Navy branch, and later receive a tiny remodel to the gun re-implement Ki-200 to the Army branch as a separate vehicle. Slightly different method, technically easier on time.

 


 

However, in the past Gaijin said they are reluctant to add J8M and Ki-200 as separate vehicles (note that the armament is wrong in this question):

 

https://warthunder.com/en/news/5250-q-a-answers-from-the-developers-en

image.png.c696d8b6f88ca449ab5a3332de0c0e

 

(Obviously, things said in Q&A are not always definite)

 

Edited by ARADO_AKBAR
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Changing the cannon is the easiest path, and keep tree same.

I would like to see the J8M, but not my call.

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12 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

Changing the cannon is the easiest path, and keep tree same.

 I would like to see the J8M, but not my call.

 

Because the aircraft in game is a J8M1 in all ways but name, I thought it would be easier simply to move it. But from a gameplay perspective I agree, it's best to keep it Ki-200 and change guns.

 

Anyway, in the same way, the chosen solution to the bug is not my call. So, I would say the discussion is decided and concluded here, that it's best to change guns to Ho-155 and keep as Ki-200. :salute:

Edited by ARADO_AKBAR
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1 hour ago, ARADO_AKBAR said:

 

Because the aircraft in game is a J8M1 in all ways but name, I thought it would be easier simply to move it. But from a gameplay perspective I agree, it's best to keep it Ki-200 and change guns.

 

Anyway, in the same way, the chosen solution to the bug is not my call. So, I would say the discussion is decided and concluded here, that it's best to change guns to Ho-155 and keep as Ki-200. :salute:

 

 

o7

 

report filed

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