nutz71

Why is IS 7 near indestructible

TBH although IS-7 is certainly beatable, i think the problem lies more within the forced playstyle change and - the ever-present-terror- RNG. some dead-on shots with Emil's (yes, I'm a blatant troll) have bounced where they never do on other tanks (except M103. what's up with that weird DM? it's as trolly).

Besides, you're talking about IS-7s like blatant, 0-skill cannon fodder with a gun that charges straight at enemies. in an actual situation where the enemy is skilled and prepared, would these advantages exist? Yes, you can aim at these spots, but what are the chances you will have aimed at this spot precisely and fired before the enemy does even though they only need to just hit you to kill you?

flanking yes- but map predictability or something along those lines has been mentioned. with a skilled opponent, would these flanks not be predictable? You can flank if you can predict where the enemy is, but what good does it do if the enemy has equal map knowledge and can predict where YOU will flank from?

TL;DR- comparisons need to be made not assuming a potatohead enemy, but rather assuming the enemy is equally or more skilled. only then is it fair comparison. \o/

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6 hours ago, Oathswornn said:

TL;DR- comparisons need to be made not assuming a potatohead enemy, but rather assuming the enemy is equally or more skilled. only then is it fair comparison. \o/

Potato IS7 can roll over potato leopards and M60s where it is not possible the other way around.

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That the IS7 has weakpixels is not the point at all. The point is how probable it is to hit these weakspots in game. And in addition to that a hit itself is no guarantee that it is effective, even with high caliber HEATFS. 

 

All the while the weakspots of the opposition tanks (those with heatfs for example) are not spots, but large areas. To exacerbate this, the completely broken APHE ammo of Russian tanks doesn't even require to really hit, just peripheral glancing is sufficient for the one shot kill.

 

These probabilities define the effectiveness of tanks and should be the guideline for BR rating. If the IS7 is balanced at 8.0, then the logic goes that it is balanced to invoke skill and luck to hit its weakspots, while the IS itself has massive leeway to kill its enemies. With this logic the IS7 can easily be at 10.0, because we can by the same argument demand that its drivers can use skill and luck to hit the (still larger) weakspots of 1980s MBTs, and even 10.0 super rounds are by no means guaranteed to one shot IS7s.

 

To achieve a semblance of parity, classify the IS7 as BR 9.3. That's a good start, but it should still be higher. But that doesn't sit well, right? Because the OP-mobile drivers can't stand their own medicine.

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19 hours ago, Ratbold said:

That the IS7 has weakpixels is not the point at all. The point is how probable it is to hit these weakspots in game. And in addition to that a hit itself is no guarantee that it is effective, even with high caliber HEATFS. 

 

The IS-7 is a heavy, it is supposed to be hard to kill. And penetrating shots often do lots of damage to the tank, it has ammo racks all over the place.

19 hours ago, Ratbold said:

All the while the weakspots of the opposition tanks (those with heatfs for example) are not spots, but large areas. To exacerbate this, the completely broken APHE ammo of Russian tanks doesn't even require to really hit, just peripheral glancing is sufficient for the one shot kill.

 

You've clearly never played the IS-7. While it has a great gun, it is subject to weird stuff happening like all other guns in WT. And tanks with HEAT-FS can pretty much point and click an IS-7, just like the IS-7 can point and click them. I don't really see how that is unbalanced.

19 hours ago, Ratbold said:

These probabilities define the effectiveness of tanks and should be the guideline for BR rating. If the IS7 is balanced at 8.0, then the logic goes that it is balanced to invoke skill and luck to hit its weakspots, while the IS itself has massive leeway to kill its enemies. With this logic the IS7 can easily be at 10.0, because we can by the same argument demand that its drivers can use skill and luck to hit the (still larger) weakspots of 1980s MBTs, and even 10.0 super rounds are by no means guaranteed to one shot IS7s.

 

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The IS-7 is balanced at 8.0 because it's combination of firepower, mobility, and protection are best suited to 8.0. The tank can be taken out with side shots by anything it faces, and most of the 7.7's it faces can lolpen it with HEAT-FS. Any higher and the IS-7 would be useless, as 8.0 is the highest any non stabilized tank can be useful at.

19 hours ago, Ratbold said:

To achieve a semblance of parity, classify the IS7 as BR 9.3. That's a good start, but it should still be higher. But that doesn't sit well, right? Because the OP-mobile drivers can't stand their own medicine.

 

The IS-7 isn't better than the XM1, hell it isn't even better than the T-55AM-1, an 8.7 tank.

 

I've played the IS-7 a bit, and really the only unfair thing about it is that it can't be viewed in the armor viewer by most. However, there are plenty of youtube videos that show it's weakspots, so with a bit of initiative anyone can figure out how to fight it.

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Because its ammo racks cannot be destroyed? All its ammo acts like an additional armor: In this game hit is7 with Milan 2 rocket, but just soaked up all my ATGMs....

B91B6CF9C091E5A0BF2EED3F5445212ABEFE3B58

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7 hours ago, Luciferke said:

Because its ammo racks cannot be destroyed? All its ammo acts like an additional armor: In this game hit is7 with Milan 2 rocket, but just soaked up all my ATGMs....

B91B6CF9C091E5A0BF2EED3F5445212ABEFE3B58

 

Nice one example of an ammo rack being hit and failing to detonate. It's not like this happens to practically every tank in the game, and is more indicative of faulty game design/bugs than of any tank being op. I rarely try to shoot at ammo racks with anything, I find going for the breach first to be far more reliable.

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10 hours ago, LeMemeAesthetic said:

 

Nice one example of an ammo rack being hit and failing to detonate. It's not like this happens to practically every tank in the game, and is more indicative of faulty game design/bugs than of any tank being op. I rarely try to shoot at ammo racks with anything, I find going for the breach first to be far more reliable.

 

Try detonating front hull ammo rack on IS7 with 105mm heatfs or Chieftain. It doesn't work, like there is some sort of armor in front of the ammo 

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It also appears to be unimpressed by any ATGM hitting it. The ammo just eats it and then laughs itself to black so violently, that it disappears. 

 

 

Such rare tank, much strong I guess...

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2 minutes ago, chomiake said:

3: many people don't have proper ammo unlocked which makes IS7 an indestructible wall.

having to unlock "proper" ammo to fight an enemy is just bad gamedesign

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I don't have it but have played against it loads (almost all of my 234 games in the Leo 1 were against it as it had just been released) and have played alongside it a fair bit too.  Thankfully the spam has died down a bit.

 

It is a very resilient tank.  I don't think anything deals with it easily, except maybe the XM-1 and that should really be at 9.3 so should come as no surprise.  Lot's of things can get through it in theory but often do very little once through.  Mostly because the ammo that is capable, doesn't do much once inside a tank.

 

And normally I'd be supportive of a heavy tank being hard to kill from the front but the IS-7 doesn't have the same drawbacks as other heavy tanks.  It's faster than most tanks on the battlefield, including light tanks.  It has a great gun and a fantastic reload for that gun.  And it has 5 crew, just to add to the difficulty in taking them out.

 

I think when you start comparing it to other Russian tanks like the T-62, which definitely isn't as good at a higher BR, you realise that the IS-7 should almost certainly be moved to at least 8.3.

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On 21/10/2018 at 17:00, Anju_Yuuki said:

Well if you cant figured it out why i dont say what the weakspots are then youre making me facepalm VERY HARD. The reason is obviously :salute:. Why should I reveal these kind of secrets to you an potential although less dangerously enemy i could met? My stats arent for show man. I earned them by eating players like you and below as breakfast.

Maybe it's because you have an IS-7 and you don't want to tell others where the weak spots are?

 

 

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On 13/11/2018 at 19:57, JohnQ11939ChtBan said:

A lot of the russian tanks have messed up damage models. Is 7 is no exception. 

This and the IS-7 has a certain fear factor to those facing it.

Unlike other IS tanks that are all about armor, it also has a very powerful and fast-reloading gun.

 

120mm HESH is the most effective round against IS-7, but only the Chieftain (8.3) has high enough reload speed to kill one on equal ground. Conqueror and Conway have to find cover during the long reloading.

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On 18/08/2018 at 08:10, Gavin_Mactavish said:

What you need to do is avoid the tank. If you avoid it, the is-7 doesnt have a target. 

 

I am following your advice; I leave the game immediately when I see one.

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Never seen an IS7...still too far on the BR ladder...

 

However...i have seen several tanks that seem indestructible...and USUALLY they seem so when they are the top tier tanks...but they will be easier to destroy when they are no longer top tier...(players usually discover this when they finally unlock them ;) )

 

Just curious...is IS7 situation different from others like KV1 or Jumbo?

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It really doesn't belong at 8.3. The gun is fast loading and is absolutely lethal. The tank can survive several penetrating hits, assuming you do pen. The armor is thick pretty much everywhere, and slight angles will result in non-pen. Then of course there's the tracks and spaced side armor which eat shots. 

You're bringing a well armored, well sloped, extremely mobile heavy tank that weighs 68 tonnes and has a 1080hp engine that can reach 58 km/h on flat terrain, traverse better than some MBTs, and has excellent ground resistance. And it's 8.3 where it will fight 7.3 vehicles. And vehicles will struggle to penetrate the thing from the side let alone the front. The reverse speed allows it to escape when need be, the vehicle can turn to react in a second, and lightly armored vehicles will stand no chance because it has 2 14.5mm MGs with 45mm of penetration that could shred the sides of a Leopard 1. 

Add all that up, and include the fact that there are 5 crew members, and the fact that a penetrating hit will sometimes kill no more than two? 
Don't forget that the hull can bounce HEAT and that shells will be eaten by the sheer space in the crew compartment.

What is this telling you?

What is this telling me?

What I see is a tank that combines mobility, protection, and firepower, with the only noticeable weaknesses being HESH and lacking in penetration on it's 130mm APHE nuclear round, and ATGMs. 

The best ways to counter it are to bring something with high caliber HESH or something with high-penetration ATGMs. And HESH is unreliable and ATGMs cannot be used on the move, and are not very well suited for close quarters.

 

...I think it belongs at 9.0, where it has great mobility and its armor is still useful, and it can kill anything if it hits weak spots.

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On 10/01/2019 at 05:01, *GhostSoph said:

Just curious...is IS7 situation different from others like KV1 or Jumbo?

 

No. The situation with IS7 is much worse.

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Tell me if I'm wrong:

 

  • IS7 is better than T-10M
  • IS7 is better than a T-62
  • IS7 is better than a T-55A

 

But IS-7 is in 8.0, while T-10M, T-62 and T-55A are in 8.3. How has this been allowed?

 

Never, ever, have I seen a T-10M or a T-62 crossing the AB map side by side without any rival tank being able to stop it and accumulate +10 deaths in a few minutes. But that if I have seen it with an IS-7 (2 times).

 

I tell you what is IS-7: it is another anomaly BR, premeditated, planned and conscious, which Gaijin has already accustomed us, in the same way that happened in his day with IS-3, in the same way that happened with IS-6, in the same way that now happens with Object 120.

 

I'm not talking about Russian bias, that all the tanks cited are Russian is a simple coincidence.

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