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IS-7 spam completely break 7.0 and 7.7 matches.

2 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

No, that's not unknown to APHE, it happens to all shells but primarily large calibre APHE like the 128, 130 and 122's.

 

 

Napalm even refers to it specifically right here.

If you think APHE shells suffer from the same issues APDS and HEAT suffer from...

 

It's not, not unless you aim poorly.

When a shell unreliably pens and does unreliable damage after penning, poor aiming is a poor argument. Because you get also punished for nice aiming.

 

 

ewfweg.png.9acdd12170194aba2870e9dff61ce

You came up with the term hullbreak and now you call it a strawman. I couldn't have unmasked that better myself.

 

Who cares about the cost? seriously, still make money firing it non-stop.

That would be half-way true, if those shells OHKed most of the time. But that's simply not possible due to the mentioned reliability issues.

I'm pretty sure most people care about the costs.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

Consistently penning through the structural steel stowage and into the tank's side.

It was a bad joke, if a side shot doesn't have severe consequences for a tank. But wait - we see that a lot in WT anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

IS-7 is a problem? pick a Leopard 1, STB-1, Ru-251 if you've got it, Type-74, M60A1 AOS, M103, AMX-50 Surbias, etc.

A nice collection of tanks. Most of them suffer from the mentioned issues regarding nerfed shells. Have fun fighting the IS-7 driving them, when they already struggle to successfully fight vehicles of the same tier.

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Just destroyed two IS-7 from 1500m on Fulda with HESH as Conqueror. They couldn't even range me. I feel like its actually great fun you know? Playing Conqueror or M103 and hunt Russian heavy tanks like you were designed for ;)

Edited by FilipAleksanderS
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2 hours ago, FilipAleksanderS said:

Just destroyed two IS-7 from 1500m on Fulda with HESH as Conqueror. They couldn't even range me. I feel like its actually great fun you know? Playing Conqueror or M103 and hunt Russian heavy tanks like you were designed for ;)

Yeah, Conqueror is wicked fun against these fancy Russian tanks. :DD

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Quote

I'm pretty sure most people care about the costs.

 

Yet I consistently make money firing it, so it's a non-issue.

 

Quote

A nice collection of tanks. Most of them suffer from the mentioned issues regarding nerfed shells. Have fun fighting the IS-7 driving them, when they already struggle to successfully fight vehicles of the same tier.

 

Complete nonsense.

 

In what world are the AMX-50, STB-1, Leopard 1, Type-74 and M103 not competitive at their respective BR's?

 

Quote

You came up with the term hullbreak and now you call it a strawman. I couldn't have unmasked that better myself.

 

Never said you can hull-break a IS-7, like, why do I even need to elaborate on this.

 

 

Before hull-break, 906's, M551's, ZSU-57 and various other threats to the Leopard could take multiple hits to destroy, the introduction of hull-break changed this in that most of the time a OHK can be achieved via the use of HEAT-FS against thin-skinned targets, therefore it is an advantage gained for this type of shell.

 

Does that sufficiently clear things up?

 

Quote

When a shell unreliably pens and does unreliable damage after penning, poor aiming is a poor argument. Because you get also punished for nice aiming.

 

And yet I'm not having any trouble using this shell.

 

 

Please feel free to point out all the kills that required 8 shots in that video due to ''unreliability''.

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

Yet I consistently make money firing it, so it's a non-issue.

Sure, ignore the thousands of threads where poeple are complaining about this non-issue. Even you should admit, that one earns much less money using those shells...

 

Complete nonsense.

 

In what world are the AMX-50, STB-1, Leopard 1, Type-74 and M103 not competitive at their respective BR's?

I said they struggle because they have to rely on unreliable shells. So it doesn't matter what they shoot at.

 

 

Never said you can hull-break a IS-7, like, why do I even need to elaborate on this.

You came up with hullbreak. I have no idea why though.

 

 

Before hull-break, 906's, M551's, ZSU-57 and various other threats to the Leopard could take multiple hits to destroy, the introduction of hull-break changed this in that most of the time a OHK can be achieved via the use of HEAT-FS against thin-skinned targets, therefore it is an advantage gained for this type of shell.

Why is it an advantage over APHE shells, which have also the ability to hullbreak vehicles but OHKs due to the filler most of the time anyway? Lol.

 

Does that sufficiently clear things up?

It doesn't clear up things at all.

 

And yet I'm not having any trouble using this shell.

 

 

Please feel free to point out all the kills that required 8 shots in that video due to ''unreliability''.

Ignore the tons of videos and bug reports showing how terrible HEAT and APDS shells work. The one you posted negates all the critisism about those shells. Lol.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

Sure, ignore the thousands of threads where poeple are complaining about this non-issue. Even you should admit, that one earns much less money using those shells...

 

*Many people complain, therefore it must be true*

 

Besides, as long as you make money, what's the big deal?

 

15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

I said they struggle because they have to rely on unreliable shells. So it doesn't matter what they shoot at.

 

Still waiting on that server replay of you having to fire 8 shells by the way, and no I'm not letting that one slide.

 

15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

You came up with hullbreak. I have no idea why though.

 

B E C A U S E    I T    I S    A N   A D V A N T A G E    T O    H E A T - F S    A M M U N I T I O N.

 

15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

Why is it an advantage over APHE shells, which have also the ability to hullbreak vehicles but OHKs due to the filler most of the time anyway? Lol.

 

Because:

 

A) Thin-skinned vehicles don't trigger the fuses.

 

B) AP requires direct hits against critical components for hull-break to trigger, HEAT-FS does not.

 

15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

It doesn't clear up things at all.

 

I can't dumb things down any further than that.

 

15 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

Ignore the tons of videos and bug reports showing how terrible HEAT and APDS shells work. The one you posted negates all the critisism about those shells. Lol.

 

  • Many of these reports dealt with the accuracy issues, which have been addressed.
  • Many of these reports dealt with APDS primarily, which still needs fixing.
  • Many of the complaint threats regarding HEAT-FS have people not understanding how HEAT-FS works historically. (refer to ''fuel tank eating HEAT'' threads, or ''look at this video where there's a giant fireball of doom'' threads)
  • Many of these reports are older and are out-dated due to several changes having taken place in the shell mechanics.

 

Yes, HEAT-FS has some issues, most ammunition does in this game, but that doesn't mean you require up to 8 shots to kill an enemy vehicle because of it supposedly being so wildly unreliable that it's almost useless.

 

Also, speaking of ignoring things.

 

2 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

Please feel free to point out all the kills that required 8 shots in that video due to ''unreliability''.

 

You ignored my question posed to you,

 

So I ask again, point me to where I was required to fire 8 shells at my opponent to kill them.

 

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I agree, the BR 7.0, 7.3 and 7.7 are suffering a lot now.

 

When I am playing with T-62 and T-10 and Objekt 120,  I have no problems to face many IS-7

 

But then I wanted some matches without 6-7  IS-7 on each team, so I played with BMP, T-54 and Objekt 120.

 

The result was, that there are even more IS-7 and I have much less firepower

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On 12/08/2018 at 00:17, Necrons31467 said:

 

1904911300_Thepoint.png.bdf2d4b099cb2cff

 

 

No, they don't.

 

IS-3 isn't over-powered.

IS-4M isn't over-powered.

IS-6 isn't over-powered.

 

Some of them have been in the past, but the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point in time, therefore the argument is entirely redundant.

 

 

You mean just like the examples you've given?

 

A Leopard can easily deal with an IS-6, IS-3 or IS-4M, but that wasn't the issue with the Tiger II H, the issue there was that it saw constant down-tiers into complete clubfest territory where it was stomping 6.3's and 5.7's primarily.

 

 

Please, explain how a XM-1 doesn't utterly nullify an IS-7.

 

 

 

It does, but the XM-1 driver has to treat it like an MBT, not just some big heavy old tank that you can play around with.  I have killed a bunch of XM-1's and yet to die to them. 

 

Don't rush an IS-7, it has very good reverse and can easily backup from danger while tanking shots, draw you around a corner and send an OPHE into your driver and wipe out the tank.

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17 hours ago, FilipAleksanderS said:

Just destroyed two IS-7 from 1500m on Fulda with HESH as Conqueror. They couldn't even range me. I feel like its actually great fun you know? Playing Conqueror or M103 and hunt Russian heavy tanks like you were designed for ;)

 

 

The IS-7 only has -3 depression, trying to hill snipe with it is practically suicidal.

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52 minutes ago, FunYun said:

 

 

The IS-7 only has -3 depression, trying to hill snipe with it is practically suicidal.

Plus lack of Rangefinder module. Its just way behind Conqueror and M103 when it comes to gunnery. In long range fight Conqueror have like 80% of hitting first shot while IS-7 way less than that, unless some lucky shot happens.

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11 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

*Many people complain, therefore it must be true*

 

Besides, as long as you make money, what's the big deal? It's obviously not so easy to gain money when you have to spend 1000 SL for a unreliable shell. I prefer the 240mm APHE of the T-54 (360 SL) over the 400mm HEAT-FS (920 SL) of the Leo all day. It's easier to knock-out tanks and it's easier to earn money. A win-win-situation, so to speak...

 

 

Still waiting on that server replay of you having to fire 8 shells by the way, and no I'm not letting that one slide. Not sure what you are talking about. Or are you going to throw numbers around just like that?

 

 

B E C A U S E    I T    I S    A N   A D V A N T A G E    T O    H E A T - F S    A M M U N I T I O N.

We are talking about the IS-7. You can't hullbreak it. So there is no point in discussing that matter.

 

Because:

 

A) Thin-skinned vehicles don't trigger the fuses. I don't see a particular problem there. APHE works just fine against light tanks.

 

B) AP requires direct hits against critical components for hull-break to trigger, HEAT-FS does not. I have little to no experience regarding AP shells. Yet it's off-topic.

 

 

I can't dumb things down any further than that.

 

 

  • Many of these reports dealt with the accuracy issues, which have been addressed. I've kept talking about the damage after penetration as well as the funky non-penetrations. Maybe you want to adress those questions for a change.
  • Many of these reports dealt with APDS primarily, which still needs fixing. As long as they need fixing, lots of vehicles have to rely on a atrocious stock shell or they have to rely on HEAT-FS. A lot of vehicles don't even have access to the 400mm Heat-FS or they even don't have access to HEAT-FS at all. Have fun fighting the IS-7.
  • Many of the complaint threats regarding HEAT-FS have people not understanding how HEAT-FS works historically. (refer to ''fuel tank eating HEAT'' threads, or ''look at this video where there's a giant fireball of doom'' threads) As long as Gaijin has no understanding about how APHE works historically (refer to a giant fireball of doom) balancing will be a distant prospect.
  • Many of these reports are older and are out-dated due to several changes having taken place in the shell mechanics. And these changes effected the performance of those shells in a way the bug report was created for? If not, they remain unfixed in my book.

 

Yes, HEAT-FS has some issues, most ammunition does in this game, but that doesn't mean you require up to 8 shots to kill an enemy vehicle because of it supposedly being so wildly unreliable that it's almost useless. Every ammunition type should have pros and cons. In WT, one ammunition type has a lot of artificial pros, others have a lot of artificial cons. What your 8 shots obsession means, I don't know.

 

Also, speaking of ignoring things.

 

 

You ignored my question posed to you,

 

So I ask again, point me to where I was required to fire 8 shells at my opponent to kill them.

Let me ignore that once again.

 

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Honestly, after playing the T32 for the last few days, I can only think of a couple matches with IS7s. Maybe they just aren’t as common when I play, but I don’t consider them game breaking. I’ve only been able to shoot at one or two anyways. 

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15 hours ago, *MiseryIndex556 said:

Honestly, after playing the T32 for the last few days, I can only think of a couple matches with IS7s. Maybe they just aren’t as common when I play, but I don’t consider them game breaking. I’ve only been able to shoot at one or two anyways. 

 

 

MM is crazy for the IS-7 right now, most games were small, and were something like RU v USA/Brit, even had RU v Ger / IT, lol.  Most were 8.7 or 9.0 with seemingly only 1 or 2 high tier tanks, fighting the one guy who plays a Cheif mk5.

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Oh bugger, my post war tank with post war shells can no longer cheat its way through the front armor of heavy tanks a full 1.0 battle rating above it.

I wonder how people can play 1.0 to 6.0?

Edited by *Le_Mofoman
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2 hours ago, *Le_Mofoman said:

Oh bugger, my post war tank with post war shells can no longer cheat its way through the front armor of heavy tanks a full 1.0 battle rating above it.

I wonder how people can play 1.0 to 6.0?

 

This, when most 7BR + tanks unlock their heat fs is-7s are quite easy to deal with, harder than most tanks indeed ofc, but very manageable in any case, also using the amx30 brenus-b2, is7s are nearly free kills with the apfsds round, cant wait to unlock that round for my type74 too.

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there are two possibilities to get rid of the is-7 problem.

1) put it at 8.3

2) decrease the BR spread to 0.7

 

but since everyone here is crying about how useless the is-7 would be in higher tiers (130mm APHE cannon useless LOL; tell that the Maus at 7.7) one could say the 0.7 spread is prefered. Especially because it would solve many many other balance problems across all tech trees.

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15 minutes ago, Rainbowprincess said:

there are two possibilities to get rid of the is-7 problem.

1) put it at 8.3

2) decrease the BR spread to 0.7

 

but since everyone here is crying about how useless the is-7 would be in higher tiers (130mm APHE cannon useless LOL; tell that the Maus at 7.7) one could say the 0.7 spread is prefered. Especially because it would solve many many other balance problems across all tech trees.

and create many others, like 1/3 - 1/2 longer queue times nd many, many more 7 player teams, especially in BR's like 5.3 and 8.3. More abuse of CAS due to easier competition and things like the Jumbo and KV1's only facing things that they have no trouble killing. 

They need to decompress up to 12.0 or 13.0 across the more competitive tiers, like 4.7, 5.7, 6.7 and 7.3.

Oh, and stop trying to make it seem like they are decompressing by adding better MBT's and purposedly breaking them to make them fit.

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1 hour ago, *Le_Mofoman said:

and create many others, like 1/3 - 1/2 longer queue times nd many, many more 7 player teams, especially in BR's like 5.3 and 8.3

oh yes I forgot. They don't decrease the spread because of holy queue times. Niche BRs like 8.3 and 5.3 only exist because of the 1.0 spread. With a 0.7 and readjusted BRs for some vehicles this issue can be fixed very easy.

1 hour ago, *Le_Mofoman said:

More abuse of CAS due to easier competition

What has CAS to do with the BR spread? It doesn't matter if a hellcat rushing a cap zone in a 5.3 battle, a 5.7 battle or a 7.7 battle.

1 hour ago, *Le_Mofoman said:

and things like the Jumbo and KV1's only facing things that they have no trouble killing.

The first jumbo is 4.7. Readjust its BR to 5.3 with a 0.7 spread and it faces not a single king tiger but always normal tigers which it is supposed to fight, paired with panzer IV. It also can't face any king tiger.

The second jumbo is 5.7 which can stay there. With its 76mm and a 0.7 spread the worse thing it can face is a king tiger P which it can damage through the turret front. But since it would be the max uptier there would be only 4 at max. the standard enemy it sees is a king tiger which is no problem with the 76mm.

All kv-1 could be uptiered by 0.3 so they wouldn't club to many low tiers but also stay out of reach of other much stronger tanks. a Kv-1 zis could be uptierd to 4.7 without even being in reach of a tiger 1 but it also wouldn't club anymore poor 3.3 tanks.

A 0.7 spread would solve so many problems when you readjust some BRs of some tanks.

 

1 hour ago, *Le_Mofoman said:

Oh, and stop trying to make it seem like they are decompressing by adding better MBT's and purposedly breaking them to make them fit.

wat?

 

Quote

This, when most 7BR + tanks unlock their heat fs is-7s are quite easy to deal with, harder than most tanks indeed ofc, but very manageable in any case, also using the amx30 brenus-b2, is7s are nearly free kills with the apfsds round, cant wait to unlock that round for my type74 too.

If you haven't read the topic.. it is about the is-7 being able to make it into 7.0 battles. Of course 8.x tanks have a more relaxed time against i, especially when you have apfsds. But try to fight it in a king tiger 105.

Edited by Rainbowprincess
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I didnt think this thing would be an issue untill I began getting sucked into 8.0 matches with 4 IS7s on each enemy team yeah no...

 

EDIT: I just killed one of the buggers using 90mm HEATFS from the M46 patton. I shot one into his LFP killing his driver. He reloads his crew and I fire again into the same spot killing his driver and gunner. I go for the flank and put one right into his turret side killing him

The IS7 needs 8.3 and no higher. 7.0 tanks are just sucked into feasting range of the IS7 and are just demolished. the King tiger 10.5 and panther 2 are just snacks for this thing and the M46 is barely capable of penetrating the front of it. it can go for LFP but it will only kill the driver unless you got lucky like me and had the proper angling to kill the gunner from the LFP. It can also go for the front turret gunner's position but that spot is difficult to hit especially when the IS7 is turret left right spamming or if he is far away. Im pretty sure the Long 88 of the panther 2 and 10.5 cm of the 10.5cm tiger have to go for the tiny cupola to even penetrate it.

Edited by TheBigEasy1996
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IS-7 was advertised as "old school tank"... yeah, thanks... 130 mm caliber with 10 s reload is such an old school thing with impenetrable front and 60 km/h speed as a heavy.

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Wasnt the Is-7 gonna be a "rare" tank? I believe at some point gaijin said so. And here we are in every match a bunch of them. Unlike any other rare tank we have in game like for example E-100.

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on the flip side, playing the IS-7 feels like having god-mode enabled, every death is your fault, since if played properly, it is virtually unkillable, and has by far the best destructive power of any tank in the game (10 seconds for 130mm APHE, what more can you want)

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In defense of gaijin, I do not think they anticipated so many people to acquire the IS7. If the IS7 was as rare as the E100, It would be fine at 8.0 and would be a feared one in a blue moon vehicle. Currently, there are Hyper Wallet warriors literally paying hundreds of USD to get this tank and people putting their tryhard grinding pantalones to get this thing en masse and this tank has blown up into a blight for 7.0....

 

Spoiler

1st world issues, man....

 

Edited by TheBigEasy1996
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Simple as hell. I dont play around 7.0-8.3 at all... same **** story like the german KV1-b. I wont face with these pathetic tanks so i just avoid these BR.

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