otomai

IS-7 spam completely break 7.0 and 7.7 matches.

3 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

@FearRaiser oh that might be because foch is paper from sides, back and top. And doesn't have turret. While IS7 can take hits from side as if you were slinging potatoes at it. It shouldn't see tanks lower then 8.0. 

Yeah, that totally justifies it being immune to everything frontally and having auto loader, awesome cannon and inhuman 360 turn rate...

Edited by FearRaiser
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh I was hoping for it to be 7.7, sure the spam is not nice but it's gonna be over in a few weeks, it gets chewed by tanks like the amx30, magach, leo1, stb wich are all under it's tier. 90mm heatfs has no issue penning it's turret cheeks and lower plate either (105 apds and 120 ap goes only through the turret cheeks), every other penning shot on the turret kills 2 crewman and disables the gun. Atm we've seen is7s killed through the turret ring by triple A, and the gun barrel and breech being so weak that mgs can damage them. What's also worth mentioning is that being bombed 5 minutes into the match by some aircraft is really annoying, and ofc they're gonna go for you because you're an event vehicle and you're a large target.

 

As for matchmaking, sure it's good if it's top tier but less so than other downtiered heavies like the jumbo, tiger2, t29, is6, the problem in your argument is (I assume) you don't have the tank and have actually played it, most of the matches are 8.3-9.0, if you're lucky and it's 8.3 you get destroyed by chieftains, amx30b etc, if you're unlucky and it's 9.0 welcome to xm1s and leoa1a1s.

 

I would also like the add that the russians have one of the best if not the best 7.7-8.0 lineup (just like we see with the german top tier), I do not like balancing by winrate, but I wanted to point out that when it comes to winrates it's not only the tank but also the lineup.

 

Learn where to shoot and if you're expecting a few is7s pushing your team get into a good ambushing position.

  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On August 7, 2018 at 16:23, gomine123 said:

I've been shredding the things with my Chieftain III.

Today I played 3 battles with the chieftain... I also shredded some IS7s. 4 of them to be precise. The two are a pretty good match for each other. IS7 is pretty balanced at 8.0. They can be killed. Also I don't know if anyone thought about this... I have a feeling a few patches ago the chieftain's ammo was readjusted.. At that time we had no idea the IS7 was coming. So what I'm saying, does anybody think that the ammo was readjusted so the chieftain's APDS rounds would not peel threw the IS7s UFP?? Would it have if we still had the old chieftain's ammo numbers before the change?? I know the APDS round has a better (correct me if I'm wrong) 30 and 60 degree numbers now, but it's just a thought. 

  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While these are being spammed rather heavily, they don’t seem quite as ludicrously hard to kill as the IS-6 was/is. Granted, this is said while mainly facing them with a fairly nice 120mm gun courtesy of the Conqueror MK2. So I’m in a relatively good position to weather the spamming until things calm down a bit. But still, it’s not quite the worst I’ve seen of toxically OP Russian heavies, so I think things will quiet down soon enough...

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, *Roger13R said:

Today I played 3 battles with the chieftain... I also shredded some IS7s. 4 of them to be precise. The two are a pretty good match for each other. IS7 is pretty balanced at 8.0. They can be killed. Also I don't know if anyone thought about this... I have a feeling a few patches ago the chieftain's ammo was readjusted.. At that time we had no idea the IS7 was coming. So what I'm saying, does anybody think that the ammo was readjusted so the chieftain's APDS rounds would not peel threw the IS7s UFP?? Would it have if we still had the old chieftain's ammo numbers before the change?? I know the APDS round has a better (correct me if I'm wrong) 30 and 60 degree numbers now, but it's just a thought. 

I can't pen LFP for that matter at point blank with the Foch just bounces

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Neokolzia said:

I can't pen LFP for that matter at point blank with the Foch just bounces

Shoot for the hatches on the top of the turret. Right hatch has two crew.. Left hatch has two crew. Also it's more armored than the IS3... But you can also trap shoot it in the spot under the gun. Hesh rounds to the sides and back of the turret also. AP rounds will not be has usefull. 

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/08/2018 at 06:40, PhugTheWar said:

Both statements are nonesense as they justify one OP vehicle to another OP vehicle.

 

1904911300_Thepoint.png.bdf2d4b099cb2cff

 

On 10/08/2018 at 06:40, PhugTheWar said:

It fits to the ones I refered to.

 

No, they don't.

 

IS-3 isn't over-powered.

IS-4M isn't over-powered.

IS-6 isn't over-powered.

 

Some of them have been in the past, but the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point in time, therefore the argument is entirely redundant.

 

On 10/08/2018 at 06:40, PhugTheWar said:

The Tiger II H at least had to fight tanks capable of dealing with it properly...

 

You mean just like the examples you've given?

 

A Leopard can easily deal with an IS-6, IS-3 or IS-4M, but that wasn't the issue with the Tiger II H, the issue there was that it saw constant down-tiers into complete clubfest territory where it was stomping 6.3's and 5.7's primarily.

 

On 10/08/2018 at 06:40, PhugTheWar said:

The only thing is: The IS-7 isn't like trash when up-tiered - like the T-10M isn't trash when uptiered.

 

Please, explain how a XM-1 doesn't utterly nullify an IS-7.

 

 

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Please, explain how a XM-1 doesn't utterly nullify an IS-7.

Please explain how IS7 doesn't utterly nullify T32, M47, 105 Tiger, Panther II, Vickers, Centurions, AMX50 and all most any other 7.0-7.7 vehicle. 

  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

Please explain how IS7 doesn't utterly nullify T32, M47, 105 Tiger, Panther II, Vickers, Centurions, AMX50 and all most any other 7.0-7.7 vehicle. 

 

1904911300_Thepoint.png.bdf2d4b099cb2cff

 

Atleast I get to recycle my epic MSPaint artwork:

 

 

 

The point is that B A T T L E   R A T I N G   C O M P R E S S I O N is the issue, you don't tier a vehicle based solely on how it does against vehicles tiered lower than it, vehicles tiered above it need to be taken into account equally.

 

This is something people strangely can;t seem to wrap their heads around *Cough* Tiger I must be downtiered crowd *Cough*.

 

 

  • Thanks 3
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

1904911300_Thepoint.png.bdf2d4b099cb2cff

 

 

No, they don't.

 

IS-3 isn't over-powered. It was very over-powered.

IS-4M isn't over-powered. It was very over-powered.

IS-6 isn't over-powered. It was very over-powered.

 

Some of them have been in the past, but the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point in time, therefore the argument is entirely redundant. This game traditionally has severe balancing issues. Yet, the statement "the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point of time" is just nonsense. It's simply not true - at least as long as we talk about over-powered in the meaning of the term seal-clubbing. Once again: One OP vehicle should never be the justification for another one.

 

A Leopard can easily deal with an IS-6, IS-3 or IS-4M, but that wasn't the issue with the Tiger II H, the issue there was that it saw constant down-tiers into complete clubfest territory where it was stomping 6.3's and 5.7's primarily. You mean the Leopard 1, that relies on crippled shells? It can deal with the IS-7 but it has a hard time doing so - even if the driver does a good job.

 

 

Please, explain how a XM-1 doesn't utterly nullify an IS-7. Please explain to me, why a tank must be invulnerable to anything before we are allowed to call it OP or under-tiered?

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

1904911300_Thepoint.png.bdf2d4b099cb2cff

 

Atleast I get to recycle my epic MSPaint artwork:

At least you get to show you can paint banal drawings in order to make the discussion look irrelevant.

 

 

 

The point is that B A T T L E   R A T I N G   C O M P R E S S I O N is the issue, you don't tier a vehicle based solely on how it does against vehicles tiered lower than it, vehicles tiered above it need to be taken into account equally.

 

This is something people strangely can;t seem to wrap their heads around *Cough* Tiger I must be downtiered crowd *Cough*.

Once again: Every tier but the lowest and the highest ones will suffer more of less equally in case of an excessive Battle Rating Compression.

A vehicle being under-tiered will disturb this balancing all of the time. The less OP vehicles we see, the better the balancing and the better the gameplay.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok..  so I went back to page one to try and figure out what you two are actually arguing..  (incidentally many of Phug's posts have been outright deleted.)

Can you bring me up to speed?  What exactly is the point being argued here?

  • Thanks 3
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

It was very over-powered.

It was very over-powered.

It was very over-powered.

 

Already addressed that.

 

On 09/08/2018 at 00:48, Necrons31467 said:
  1. IS-4M hasn't been over-powered since 2014 ground forces, that being the same period of time when the Panzer II M was roflstomping Tier II like no tank had before or since.
  2. IS-3 was OP for like a few months, at best, when it was down-tiered to where it fought Tiger II's consistently and then quickly up-tiered again, not much a track-record there.
  3. IS-6 was indeed over-powered for quite a while, but then again plenty of others have been, the premium T29 was wrecking German 5.7's-6.7's quite a while before the IS-6 came about.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

This game traditionally has severe balancing issues. Yet, the statement "the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point of time" is just nonsense. It's simply not true - at least as long as we talk about over-powered in the meaning of the term seal-clubbing. Once again: One OP vehicle should never be the justification for another one.

 

Let's just take a look at Tier II Germany:

 

OP.thumb.png.22672635e42777d803b9c43e27f

 

Marked red are vehicles that have been/still are over-powered,

  • Flakbus speaks for itself, one of the most broken vehicles ever to be introduced back in the day.
  • Pz III M, perhaps the most broken OP tank of the closed beta testing days.
  • Pz IV F2, simply because it negates any armour whilst still having decent mobility, gun handling and protection, for some reason not tiered at 3.7 along with the T-34 1942 and M4.
  • StuG III G, made especially OP with the addition of it's track add-ons, making it's frontal armour largely 100mm, that';s Tiger 1 levels of armour on a 4.0 tank, add to that the incredibly powerful 75mm and one of the quickest traverse rates of any tank of it's class and it ended up being a massive club machine.
  • PaKpuma, still OP.
  • Pz III N, same as the Pz III M, used to have ridiculously broken armour and insta-penned anything with a ludicrous 3 sec reload, it's HEAT rounds also able to one-click T-34's.

As I said, plenty of vehicles have been OP at one point in time.

 

24 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

You mean the Leopard 1, that relies on crippled shells? It can deal with the IS-7 but it has a hard time doing so - even if the driver does a good job.

 

Still farmed IS-6's just fine with their poor crew layouts.

 

 

Quote

Please explain to me, why a tank must be invulnerable to anything before we are allowed to call it OP or under-tiered?

 

ewfweg.png.d46206e62910db58c8c869e5df238

 

Quote

At least you get to show you can paint banal drawings in order to make the discussion look irrelevant.

 

Tanks club machines a full BR lower than them and get clubbed by tanks a full BR higher than them, this includes the IS-7.

 

Naming a bunch of 7.0's and then going: ''Here, these can't handle it'' isn't news to anyone.

 

Quote

A vehicle being under-tiered will disturb this balancing all of the time. The less OP vehicles we see, the better the balancing and the better the gameplay.

 

Never argued against it.

 

Problem is that the IS-7 isn't OP at 8.3, it gets countered by 400mm pen HEAT-FS just fine, which by-the-way is already found in massive numbers at BR's lower than the IS-7, often by tanks that are also more mobile than it and have superior reloads.

 

Edited by Necrons31467
  • Confused 5
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

As I said, plenty of vehicles have been OP at one point in time.

 

9 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

but the large majority of the vehicles in this game have been OP at some point in time, therefore the argument is entirely redundant.

6 out of 17 is not exactly the large majority. But that's not important as your picture is irrelevant.

 

7 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

Tanks club machines a full BR lower than them and get clubbed by tanks a full BR higher than them, this includes the IS-7.

 

Naming a bunch of 7.0's and then going: ''Here, these can't handle it'' isn't news to anyone.

The IS-7 is not going to get clubbed, no worries.

9 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

Problem is that the IS-7 isn't OP at 8.3, it gets countered by 400mm pen HEAT-FS just fine, which by-the-way is already found in massive numbers at BR's lower than the IS-7, often by tanks that are also more mobile than it and have superior reloads.

That 400mm pen HEAT-FS is a very problematic shell, both in terms of penetration reliability and post pen effects. And it's quite expensive as well.

That's why it's found in lower BRs. But even there it's not an attractive shell. People use it because they have to.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

The IS-7 is not going to get clubbed

 

Well, if PhugTheWar says so, it must be factual.

 

10 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

That 400mm pen HEAT-FS is a very problematic shell,

 

The APHE on the IS-7 is quite problematic as well, another reason why it isn't OP.

 

Besides, HEAT-FS does fine, especially after the accuracy buffs and it being able to hull-break stuff, it's APDS that's most unreliable.

  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

The APHE on the IS-7 is quite problematic as well, another reason why it isn't OP.

I'm talking about problematic in the meaning of "really problematic". Like penetrating the turret only to see the gunner turning yellow. That sort of "problematic", that is unknown for APHE shells - some call them mini-nukes...

 

7 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

Besides, HEAT-FS does fine, especially after the accuracy buffs and it being able to hull-break stuff, it's APDS that's most unreliable. 

The accuracy "buff" does not change the fact, that it's unreliable in dealing damage or even in penetating stuff. Plus, you can't hullbreak the IS-7...

Plus, you have a terrible stock shell and you have to switch to a not much better but much more expensive HEAT-FS shell.

Good luck fighting the IS-7.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

I'm talking about problematic in the meaning of "really problematic". Like penetrating the turret only to see the gunner turning yellow. That sort of "problematic", that is unknown for APHE shells - some call them mini-nukes...

 

No, that's not unknown to APHE, it happens to all shells but primarily large calibre APHE like the 128, 130 and 122's.

 

 

Napalm even refers to it specifically right here.

 

5 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

The accuracy "buff" does not change the fact, that it's unreliable in dealing damage or even in penetating stuff.

 

It's not, not unless you aim poorly.

 

5 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

Plus, you can't hullbreak the IS-7...

 

ewfweg.png.9acdd12170194aba2870e9dff61ce

 

5 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

Plus, you have a terrible stock shell and you have to switch to a not much better but much more expensive HEAT-FS shell.

 

Who cares about the cost? seriously, still make money firing it non-stop.

 

 

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who say it is not OP it's because they have something to pen it reliably (HESH, APDS, APFSDS etc). The problem is that tanks which were designed in ww2, ARE NOT supposed to fight tanks post war. The IS7 is supposed to be OP, the real problem is this: 

Gaijin wants it to be an Elite "rare" tank, so why is it in literally every match?!?!??!!??!

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, TheONE024 said:

Those who say it is not OP it's because they have something to pen it reliably (HESH, APDS, APFSDS etc).

 

Exactly, you pick counters, this has always been the case and the introduction of the IS-7 hasn't changed this.

 

IS-7 is a problem? pick a Leopard 1, STB-1, Ru-251 if you've got it, Type-74, M60A1 AOS, M103, AMX-50 Surbias, etc.

 

14 minutes ago, TheONE024 said:

The problem is that tanks which were designed in ww2, ARE NOT supposed to fight tanks post war.

 

WW2 fighting post war is entirely fine if the two vehicles are of equal strenght.

 

This whole ''Post-war should never fight WW2'' argument is completely nonsensical, firstly, post-war tanks can be most balanced against WW2 vehicles, take the Caernarvon vs Tiger II H as an example, these two are quite well matched.

 

Similarly, some WW2 vehicles are actually best tiered against post-war, the 1944 IS-6 jumps to mind, which is best placed against early/mid '50s vehicles like the M48.

 

14 minutes ago, TheONE024 said:

Gaijin wants it to be an Elite "rare" tank, so why is it in literally every match?!?!??!!??!

 

'' Capitalism isn't the problem, greed is. ''

 

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, TheONE024 said:

Gaijin wants it to be an Elite "rare" tank, so why is it in literally every match?!?!??!!?

It's in every match because it was just obtained this week by many players. It the new toy in WT right now. You obviously have been here long playing. This happens every time a hype vehicle comes to WT. Many players are playing it because they just got it. Many are trying to spade it. Some are just taking it out for a drive. Wait a couple of weeks and the IS7 spam should or will die down. Play a different BR for a couple of weeks in mean time! 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Necrons31467 oh right because every single tank when fully downtiered have sidearmor thick as their frontal armor. Before you jump the gun again. I know it's because of compression that doesn't mean it's not OP at this current moment. Till now when you got downtiered you still have to watch for your side armor. This thing literally does not care. And it has 130mm gun with 10s reload, and mobility all most on par with leopard 1. You told us counters but what does it help when heat is eaten by 1mm structural steel and doesn't pen rest. Or it does little to no damage because magic. Two hours back I've lobbed 8 heat rounds from magach onto that thing before it finally died. When downtiered that thing have extremely little counters. And the one most obvious one does damage only on Mondays and Thursdays.. 

  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

@Necrons31467 oh right because every single tank when fully downtiered have sidearmor thick as their frontal armor.  Till now when you got downtiered you still have to watch for your side armor. 

 

Firstly, the side armour isn't even as strong as the frontal armour to begin with, not my fault people can't figure out you shouldn't be hitting the upper portion of the sides.

 

IS-7.png.8d34010f40d958d86766177baab9dd3

 

Secondly, there's a few more vehicles with excellent side armour for the respective battle ratings, KV-1B, KV-1, E-100, Maus and the Jumbo's turret side, for example, but that doesn't mean these vehicles can be played carelessly.

 

Thirdly, regardless of what tank you're in, you always have to pay attention to your flanks, including those driving the IS-7.

 

2 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

And it has 130mm gun with 10s reload,

 

Which is still bad by 8.0 standards, virtually everything has a quicker reload.

 

What's the reload on the AMX-50's 120mm again? 7 seconds? that also being a gun that'll severely cripple the IS-7 from the front.

 

2 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

and mobility all most on par with leopard 1.

 

Only in short distances and only in forward.

 

Top-speed, reverse and traverse are all worse, this means it won't be able to compete with a Leopard when it comes to powerpositions.

 

2 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

You told us counters but what does it help when heat is eaten by 1mm structural steel

 

It doesn't.

 

354732857_IS-7Ammo.png.42c99b9e53c2c1c6b

 

Consistently penning through the structural steel stowage and into the tank's side.

 

2 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

Two hours back I've lobbed 8 heat rounds from magach onto that thing before it finally died. When downtiered that thing have extremely little counters.

 

So.... horrible aim?

 

Seriously, please link the server replay on that.

 

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.