Rieskaruisku

Separating Italy and minor Axis nations

I’m not so informed about the WW2 era tanks about those nations as much as I am from the Cold War era all the way up to the modern era.

but taking a look at the tech tree that another guy posted before, with mixed Italian and minor axis nations, if you take away all Italians vehicle you have.

Rank 1: 7 vehicles (5 without copy pasted vehicles)

2 light tanks - 2 medium tanks copy pasted - 2 Tank Destroyers - 1 AA

 

rank 2: 14 vehicles (13 without copy pasted vehicles)

4 light tanks - 4 medium tanks - 5 tanks Destroyers of with 1 is copy pasted - 0 AA (first hole)

 

Rank 3: 12 vehicles (10 without copy pasted vehicles)

0 light tanks (2nd hole) - 4 medium tanks of with 2 copy pasted - 5 tanks Destroyers of witch 2 copy pasted - 1 AA

 

Rank 4: 3 vehicles (2 without copy paste)

0 light tanks (3rd hole) - 2 medium tank (one of which copy pasted) - 0 Tank Destroyers (4th hole) - 1 AA

 

Rank 5: 0 all round 

 

rank 6: 0 all round

 

this to show that the tech tree would be too void, and this is a fan made tech tree, that means that probably there are vehicles that were never tested, some that were just projects and some that were just moch ups

 

i don’t want other nations in the Italian tech tree at least that the tech that gets added was engineered by Italians (Like the rank 5 premium G.91 R/4), but you really need a reality check, because there is too many hole (12 holes total) to be implemented, already a nation like Italy struggle to have a tech tree despise being one of the main nations during WW2 (I don’t mean the most competitive or other stuff, I mean one of those that made more moves) and in the post ww2 era is categorized between 9th and 11th (it depends on the source) strongest army in the world.

i mean that in my opinion a minor axis nations tree is impossible, we should all support a international tech tree instead

3 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

 

from that list few can't be added because there is no firm data on them like the of.40 with airete turret (OF.40 Mk.3) (potentially fake)

but there are even more vehicles than you listed even some built ones that there aren't enough info for them despite being built 20 to 30 years after ww2...:facepalm:

and yes italian tree is super fun at high tier. there isn't much there but the ones that are there are great. it's like 5 or 6 big gems instead of 20 small gems of the U.S or soviet tree.

and the heart warming thing is that there is still a lot to come that can make italy match other european powers in high tier. italy can become the best nation for armored cars/light tanks tree.

it's a conspiracy but i'm thinking the reason italy is the last nation without an IFV is to make a balance in all tree and not make a tree specialize on certain type of vehicle, if italy had the dardo its light tank branch was the best in game at high tier.

 

Well, as I showed with the Ariete armor in a different topic, if you dig enough, you can find the informations you are looking for, especially because the armor values of the Ariete is top secret stuff, while the data about the C13 family are not

  • Confused 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

i mean that in my opinion a minor axis nations tree is impossible, we should all support a international tech tree instead

Than you need to look more into it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

Than you need to look more into it.

Just taken directly a look at the tech trees you posted the link of.

the aircraft tech tree arrives only at rank 5, while he ground tech tree gets only to rank 6, it is missing already two entire tiers.

secondly, by taking a quick look at the aircraft tech tree mainly, there are a few copy pasted vehicles like the Romanian IAR-81 that there are 3 different versions, but don’t you think that if those versions was so different to need 3 different aircrafts in it (not foldable) gaijin would have implemented those instead of just the C version?

then if you want to keep going with this fight? Go on, my advice would be to instead try to support the International techtree and try to fit into it as many of your vehicles as possible.

The thing i’m Saying is that, probably those 2 minor nations tech tree contains 100% of all the techs that can be added in game (or even more seeing that maybe some of these tanks can’t be added due to lack of informations or other problems) while Italy could still get circa 20/30 ground vehicles and over 70-80 aircrafts 

  • Confused 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

if you want to keep going with this fight?

who the hell is fighting here:D When did having an opinion become dangerous or hurtfull?

And iam pretty sure that the updated tech tree in 2018 went up till rank 6. But as you might know as well Main Battle tanks are not produced by a lot of nations in the moders era but Hungary does operate Leopard 2A5's soo :lol2:.

 

Anyway, iam sure that the modern part of it can be easily worked out.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

who the hell is fighting here:D When did having an opinion become dangerous or hurtfull?

And iam pretty sure that the updated tech tree in 2018 went up till rank 6. But as you might know as well Main Battle tanks are not produced by a lot of nations in the moders era but Hungary does operate Leopard 2A5's soo :lol2:.

 

Anyway, iam sure that the modern part of it can be easily worked out.

By fight I mean not between me and you but the fight to get the minor nations implemented.

yeah but that’s going into the copy pasted territory and as you said on the tech tree you wanted only non copy paste vehicles

Edited by arpitmkn
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

By fight I mean not between me and you but the fight to get the minor nations implemented.

yeah but that’s going into the copy pasted territory and as you said on the tech tree you wanted only non copy paste vehicles

oh ok.

i did not mean to sound like i want non copy pasted vehicles only. If i remember right, i only talked about how minor axis has more non copy pasted,non post war vehicles in the "ww2 tiers" than Itally..in regards to the minor axis presenting a better pre cold war, ground tech tree. And i also criticised the Itallian tech tree for filling holes with US tech again, instead of being more creative and not abandoning the Itallian-Hungarian tech tree idea that made it possible for the Itallian tech to appear in its own tech tree.

 

But post the addition of the Itallian tech tree i have aknowledged that the original idea went out the window, so as the Minor axis tech tree(especialy the updated one) presents a much better possibility with a very interesting tech tree, i think thats a way better place for Hungarian and Romanian tech than being premium filler due to the the lack of Itallian premiums, arriving in 2030 possibly..

 

I hope i managed to communicate my standpoint well.

Edited by Jacky95
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

18 I- 20 M.A ww2 vehicles without copy paste and post war in ww2 tiers, add copy paste and the lead is even bigger. I see no reason not to support the Minor Axis tech tree.

Edit:

Forgott to mention that the minor axis tech tree on the forum is outdated. This video has the full version: 

Also its more like 18 It. - 22M.A. ww2 vehicles without post war and copy paste( 23 if i add another indigenous spaag)

 

holy f, dont know what to say

 

edit: i never thought ppl would actually read my suggestion, now i see that someone made actually a video about it

Edited by stefffff1871
  • Like 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

Than you need to look more into it.

calm down dear war thunder user.

it wasn't our choice gaijin putting the 3.7 pizza deliverer in game and make it fight ww2 stuff. italy's AA branch can change, AA trucks at tier 1, AS42 at tier 2, M42 AA at tier 3 and all post ww2 AAs can start from tier 4, gaijin didn't decide to do it that way but that doesn't mean there isn't a way around it to close your argument on this matter.

minor axis nations have a better ww2 line up you say? in theory in only 1 tier and only 1 military branch you are right. thinking that all the info is gathered to make all those vehicles possible only tier 4 can be better than the current italian tier 4 (for now) and tier 3 is having a bit more variety.

comparing that to what italy is better at: the whole Naval Tech tree, the whole air force tech tree. better tier 1,2,5,6,7 ground forces tech tree.

 

don't forget that the "minor axis" tree is at the mercy of a handful of people to find enough data on every single one of those vehicles in that tank tree to have chance at standing against italy.

a quarter of that tree are vehicles that miss important info. gaijin can add them anyways and i'll be the one asking what is that paper tree in game doing? 

i suggest you move to the japanese section of ground forces discussion. heavy tank number 6, Ho-ri and copy paste M42, M41, M24 and M4A3 are waiting for you.:salute:

(i sometimes ask myself what is that non-existent weird japanese tank destroyer doing in between 1960s MBTs too)

 

one last thing, speaking about myself, adding minor axis nations to italian tree was never appreciated by me because italy doesn't need them, you can have them all, but yet again we weren't to decide on that.

 

Edited by Ruthless95
  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

AA branch can change, AA trucks at tier 1, AS42 at tier 2, M42 AA at tier 3 and all post ww2 AAs can start from tier 4

 

Agree, but I'd rather leave the AS42 at T1 (very weak and vulnerable) and add an AA truck at T2 (I think almost any of them is stronger than the AS42). The M42 Quadrinato could indeed climb back to T3 where it originally was, IF Gaijin finally realizes that its current ammo management makes no sense (it should supposedly work with ammo belts, Gaijin gave it instead 12 rounds clips DESPITE according to their own 3D model there's obviously no way for said clips to fit, nor either room for a single loader to change them). 

 

The R3 20mm sure belongs to T4. 

 

About Jacky95, his very low battles and posts count suggests that he's rather new, and thus he may have missed previous tech tree discussions (unless he's an alt account). 

Edited by Serpiko82
Spelling
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

calm down dear war thunder user.

, you can have them all, but yet again we weren't to decide on that.

 

Why do you think iam not calm m8? Chill as a cucumber.

The whole conversation started with someone asking why people dont support the m.a. tech tree more. I just talked about reasons and as to why the minor axis is way better for these nations.

We all know that its up to gaijin to decide, but we also know that without the support on the Itallian-Hungarian tech tree, there wouldnt be Itallian faction in the game, or at least not yet. And that aint just my opinion. So please let people support whatever they want and argue for whatever they want because we are free to do that.

But if it warms your heart, iam already done.

 

Edited by Jacky95
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

We all know that its up to gaijin to decide, but we also know that without the support on the Itallian-Hungarian tech tree, there wouldnt be Itallian faction in the game, or at least not yet. And that aint just my opinion.

 

https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Confused-Nick-Young.jpg

 

that is indeed just your opinion. again before i go on remember that war thunder was an aircraft game, italy can for sure muster up an air force tree and the axis tree for sure can not muster an air force tree.

 

long before italian tree was proposed gaijin was going to release italy and france after whenever jp tanks would come out as a way to keep grabbing players from other games and to make the game move on in a "the more the better" strategy. you can see that from gaijin releasing italian trees and barely updating them because italian vehicle hype is over and putting more assets into it is kind of a waste. around the same time the italian hungarian tree was proposed gaijin started to demand information on italian vehicles to start a fully independent italian only tree with one of their Q&As at the time specifying there won't be any hungarian vehicles in the up coming italian tree. (bet you didn't know that)

the italian tech tree that was proposed had a italian standalone version. also the hungarians fully participated in the project and supported it and no one forced them into the italian tree and a reason they chose to stick to italy is that back then there was no "axis tree" concept fully realized. it was just the international tree which hungary was heavily under represented in it. probably hungarians still prefer italy over an axis mush pit tree.

 

but if i want to go by your logic, at least hungary made the italian tree possible (without any hungary in it), but not even the same hungary can make the axis tree possible (with everything hungary can offer in it). 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

snip

 

Aside from accusations and baseless assumptions, i accept your opinion and also disagree with it. As this is getting more and more away from what the original conversation was i dont feel the need to continue it since there is no worthwhile debate anymore as responding to accusations and half assed assumptions would only derail this topic. have a nice day.

 

 

Edited by Jacky95
  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30/11/2018 at 21:25, DarthGergely said:

Watch the difference: 

Great+%281%29.png

 

this is the best visual representation of what a Italian-Hungarian-Romanian tech tree would look like, especially the info about the "shared" vehicles

  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/06/2019 at 21:36, armando30 said:

 

this is the best visual representation of what a Italian-Hungarian-Romanian tech tree would look like, especially the info about the "shared" vehicles

so you think after they dump all minor axis into italy half of itlaian vehicles become premiums? M15/42? 105/25, p-40 not being in the regular tree but as premium? or you forgot to update your tree?

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

so you think after they dump all minor axis into italy half of itlaian vehicles become premiums? M15/42? 105/25, p-40 not being in the regular tree but as premium? or you forgot to update your tree?

 

update my tree? it's not mine, did you even understand my comment?

sorry to be saying this but I cannot understand if you are trolling or are just d*mb, from my understanding that was created before the Italian tech tree was added (3 months before, it's on Live.WarThunder), back when the P.40 was only known to be a premium and nothing else was known about how the TT would look like

it is something so simple because I've seen several proposals but all had Italian, Romanian and Hungarian vehicles, none made the effort to show the links in the form of vehicles that would overlap in each individual tech tree (be it as premiums or something else)

 

furthermore it is not like it is even complete, the Romanian MBTs are obviously missing (those TR-77 and TR-85), there's only 1 of the 2 or 3 different Italian guntrucks with the 90mm cannon, the others aren't even added as premiums, and there are others that are currently in the TT but not on the list as well, back then no one thought the FIAT 6614, the R3 and many others would be added from origin but they were, but that is not the point, the point is that instead of showing Italian + Hungarian + Romanian they show that but also show those that were Italian & Hungarian & Romanian or Italian & Hungarian or Italian & Romanian or Hungarian & Romanian

Edited by armando30
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/06/2019 at 09:30, Jacky95 said:

18 I- 20 M.A ww2 vehicles without copy paste and post war in ww2 tiers, add copy paste and the lead is even bigger. I see no reason not to support the Minor Axis tech tree.

Edit:

Forgott to mention that the minor axis tech tree on the forum is outdated. This video has the full version: 

Also its more like 18 It. - 22M.A. ww2 vehicles without post war and copy paste( 23 if i add another indigenous spaag)

 

I don´t know what happened with my reply I wrote it on mobile today, so maybe some mistake, so I´m writing it again. I saw this video sometime before, that tech tree looks different now, in this first version are some mistakes, for example Krupp Protze with 20 mm flak used just Germany, no Hungary. But in both of them (this tech tree and actual tech tree, on which someone gave here some links) are missing some vehicles, for example Rába Vr, 38M Toldi I with 44M buzogányvető or finnish Ford truck with 7,62 mm ItKk/09-31. Some planes are missing too like 2 versions of WM-16 Budapest, WM-21 Sólyom were 2 versions and RMI-1 X/H is missing too. By the way why some of vehicles and planes are in the article but no in image of tech tree? And I would give there a little bit of german ww2 tanks and some russian post-war tanks or maybe some captured ww2 tanks. Planes too, after all Hungary produced some of bf 109 in ww2. We Hungarians made 764 pieces of these planes. Maybe I would give there some italian bombers too, which Hungary, Romania and some other countries used. But it would be just several vehicles and planes and I think it would be worth it for that. :) 

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way from 1938 to 1944 Hungary made  circa 1721 engine planes+ circa 80 uncompleted kites, over 1000 gliders and over 2600 aircraft engines. Between 1940-1944 Hungary made 971 armored vehicles without some prototypes or Rába Vr (which was produced in 1924). So thanks to that Hungary is on 3. place in produce of armored vehicles and aircraft technology in ww2 of European axis countries. Hungary and other countries like Romania really doesn´t deserve to be just part of Italian tech tree. :( 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Eriksk said:

By the way from 1938 to 1944 Hungary made  circa 1721 engine planes+ circa 80 uncompleted kites, over 1000 gliders and over 2600 aircraft engines. Between 1940-1944 Hungary made 971 armored vehicles without some prototypes or Rába Vr (which was produced in 1924). So thanks to that Hungary is on 3. place in produce of armored vehicles and aircraft technology in ww2 of European axis countries. Hungary and other countries like Romania really doesn´t deserve to be just part of Italian tech tree. :( 

I really don’t understand what is the point of this topic, I see only 2 Romanian plane in the Italian air tech tree and 0 minor axis nations ground vehicles so I really don’t see why all of the sudden it should be in the Italian tree

  • Upvote 2
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

I really don’t understand what is the point of this topic, I see only 2 Romanian plane in the Italian air tech tree and 0 minor axis nations ground vehicles so I really don’t see why all of the sudden it should be in the Italian tree

 

for some it is simply because they want separete trees, despite the fact that the TT is not mixed, but there are also others who have a more "polítical" view, lets just call it "national pride" so that we do not need to use harsher words

 

luckily we do not have either a Czech OR a Polish tech trees, things could get ugly really fast, also one of the reasons as to why a international tech tree was never viable, but that is a whole other topic

Edited by armando30
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29/06/2019 at 22:16, Eriksk said:

By the way from 1938 to 1944 Hungary made  circa 1721 engine planes+ circa 80 uncompleted kites, over 1000 gliders and over 2600 aircraft engines. Between 1940-1944 Hungary made 971 armored vehicles without some prototypes or Rába Vr (which was produced in 1924). So thanks to that Hungary is on 3. place in produce of armored vehicles and aircraft technology in ww2 of European axis countries. Hungary and other countries like Romania really doesn´t deserve to be just part of Italian tech tree. :( 

damn..did not know that..

But yeah there is a lot more stuff that can be placed into a Minor Axis tech tree from the Hungarian arsenal.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.