Rieskaruisku

Separating Italy and minor Axis nations

Have there been any news about how the separation should be implied? I wasn't very sure where to suggest this. So, for the moderator feel free to remove this post.

 

To the point: I had this small idea how separate the other nations by turning them into these "micro-trees". It would satisfy the players who want to keep the Italians as a separated tree from Romania and Hungary, but you would have a possibility to spice it up with the two axis minors.

Also I guess that the devs already have an idea, but hey, dreams can be dreams.

idea2.png

  • Confused 7
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The others minor axis nations vehicles will be only premiums, so they are already separated.

The main tree will be just Italy (wich is certainly not a "micro-tree").

Edited by LordNemoII
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
  • Sad 2
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting idea. But, ultimately I only want minor axis nation temporarily put into the Italian tree until a proper minor Axis nation tree can be created. 

  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 6
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why split? why not doing it just like how we see it in the community proposed TT and on the background (in the box behind the vehicle Icon in the research tree) add the colors of the nation of origin, like a faded flag or something?

 

 

NOTE: and while at it do the same for vehicles in similar situations in other tech trees, like the Finnish captured KV-1 in the German GF, the Canadian Ram in the American GF, the "Romanian" "Duck" in the German AF, the Australian vehicles in the British GF (it would not be needed if they used the Commonwealth flag instead of the Union Jack), etc

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, armando30 said:

why split? why not doing it just like how we see it in the community proposed TT and on the background (in the box behind the vehicle Icon in the research tree) add the colors of the nation of origin, like a faded flag or something?

 

 

NOTE: and while at it do the same for vehicles in similar situations in other tech trees, like the Finnish captured KV-1 in the German GF, the Canadian Ram in the American GF, the "Romanian" "Duck" in the German AF, the Australian vehicles in the British GF (it would not be needed if they used the Commonwealth flag instead of the Union Jack), etc

Because we want our own tree like Japan has or others do, I don't see why French and Japanese trees that lack vehicles should be out of this while Italy is treated as an empty box, we finally have our own tree we would like it to be our own, premium are welcome but not regulars, we are not a mixed tree

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's good to have a minor "axis three" but not in the Italian Tech Three, that is right that it is independent and must be like this.

Edited by Redberseker
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Redberseker said:

I think it's good to have a minor "axis three" but not in the Italian Tech Three, that is right that it is independent and must be like this.

Exactly, people say we are nationalists but we are the same as they are, neither they would love this idea, they should have called it minor axis tree instead of italy if they wanted to fill it up with everything else, it is our tree, it should mainly rapresent us not anyone

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Because we want our own tree like Japan has or others do, I don't see why French and Japanese trees that lack vehicles should be out of this while Italy is treated as an empty box, we finally have our own tree we would like it to be our own, premium are welcome but not regulars, we are not a mixed tree

 

you do know that it will still be called « Italian Ground Forces Research Tree » right? and you do also know that it will have most of all the military vehicles ever made in Italy that do fit War Thunder gameplay, right?

you should also know that HISTORICALLY Italy has not developed military vehicles only for Itself, right? so what about those, would you exclude them?

to me it makes no sense to be so petty for something so small and insignificant, their additions (as proposed by the community) only strengthens the history of Italian military development in the 20th century, from the technical support to Romania in the development of their aircraft to the close military cooperation between Italy and Hungary in WWII

 

I wonder IF you also want Gaijin to turn into premiums all vehicles available to the Italian AF/GF that have foreign origin, like the F-84, lets wait and see....

  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 3
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, armando30 said:

 

you do know that it will still be called « Italian Ground Forces Research Tree » right? and you do also know that it will have most of all the military vehicles ever made in Italy that do fit War Thunder gameplay, right?

you should also know that HISTORICALLY Italy has not developed military vehicles only for Itself, right? so what about those, would you exclude them?

to me it makes no sense to be so petty for something so small and insignificant, their additions (as proposed by the community) only strengthens the history of Italian military development in the 20th century, from the technical support to Romania in the development of their aircraft to the close military cooperation between Italy and Hungary in WWII

 

I wonder IF you also want Gaijin to turn into premiums all vehicles available to the Italian AF/GF that have foreign origin, like the F-84, lets wait and see....

Other "minor axis" stuff will be putted in premium way temporarily. Then I think that they will create a separate "minor axis three" where to put all of those stuff, whose presence is good in the game.
But the Italian Tech Three will remain independent, as it must be.

Edited by Redberseker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there really that much demand for minor Axis nations vehicles? People claim this about the Italian stuff but it seems there are a lot of pro Italian fans. I don't know about the other countries though. To be honest, from my knowledge of WW2 I would say that the other countries were much more involved with Germany than Italy except for maybe Bulgaria. But if Italy did develop a plane or tank for another country it would make sense to have it as a premium in the tree. For me though an independent Italian tree is needed and warranted. The air tree isn't filled out even though there are tons of planes they could put in there that Italy made and flew. Look at the Reggiane's. Still waiting for those. 

Edited by Dalless
grammar
  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, armando30 said:

 

you do know that it will still be called « Italian Ground Forces Research Tree » right? and you do also know that it will have most of all the military vehicles ever made in Italy that do fit War Thunder gameplay, right?

you should also know that HISTORICALLY Italy has not developed military vehicles only for Itself, right? so what about those, would you exclude them?

to me it makes no sense to be so petty for something so small and insignificant, their additions (as proposed by the community) only strengthens the history of Italian military development in the 20th century, from the technical support to Romania in the development of their aircraft to the close military cooperation between Italy and Hungary in WWII

 

I wonder IF you also want Gaijin to turn into premiums all vehicles available to the Italian AF/GF that have foreign origin, like the F-84, lets wait and see....

Yes i would much more prefer the f 84 to be premium, and no Italy and Hungary never developed any tanks together, Jesus Hungary was almost puppet of Germany same goes for Romania and Bulgaria, they feared the German Reich they were not so friendly they were scared. We give them a couple of our machines during the 30's

And that's it, Italy should be indipendet as USSR Germany France USA Japan and England are, not mixed up between every minor

  • Like 2
  • Confused 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

and no Italy and Hungary never developed any tanks together

 and I never posted that they did, I posted about « close military cooperation during WWII », I believe the guys from the community proposal wrote that it was basically Germany on their own and Italy and Hungary fighting together on their "own" as well, something about holding the southern part of the Eastern Front together, IF I am remembering it correctly

 

there's one thing you guys are not realizing about this, wether they add Hungarian and Romanian vehicles or not IT WILL STILL BE THE ITALIAN GROUND FORCES RESEARCH TREE, the rest is just an extra, just like the Italians were in the German Aviation Tree, IF they do that they most likely will make the lines separate and thus you do not need to research the other vehicles if you do not want to

 

and about the "minor axis tree", IF we are to be honest there isn't much a difference in the number of vehicles that Hungary, Romania or Czechslovakia could put out in a GF Tree as compared to the Italians, especially since they expanded it to a more modern era, the only difference is that they don't have much options for aviation for all BRs, so, how would they do it? make 2 or 3 "Minor Axis" trees to have all of them? that's not gonna cut it, that means placing them together with others is the best option

 

but let me finnish by writing I have nothing against players wanting a Italian Tree in the game, I've been a supporter of that since day 1, it's just that the reasons given by those who claim that aren't really that strong, afterall having a few Hungarian or Romanian tanks as an extra DOES NOT make the tree NOT ITALIAN

I honestly believe that this sort of "idiotic" nationalism (just to make sure I am not calling you guys idiots) is not an excuse, it's a game, it's not like people are asking to give Hungarian cammo and insignia patterns to Italian tanks, each would be on their own with their own colors and their own insignias, wether you play them or not is up to you, and do not forget that it's called Italian GF Research Tree for convniency, it's in no way an official representation of the Italian Army

 

lastly, do not forget that FOR A LONG WHILE the thougt of a possible Italian Tree was completely shoved, they kep giving excuses about "still researching" and stuff, I do not know how much the info available can compare to the Germans, British, Soviets or Americans but it should still be more than enough for it, especially for aircraft where the Tech Tree is far from what could possibly be, people talk about the Reggiane aircraft but I know there's much more, especially the Caproni (Caproni Vizzola F.5 for example) and the attacker/heavy fighter aircraft, that is why I TRULY BELIEVE that projects like the Italian-Hungarian COmmunity Ground Forces Tree project and the amount of attention and support it gathered where crucial for the change in policy (that and the fact they started adding prototypes and that was no longer an excuse, like 2 or 3 years ago), you may think whatever you want but you truly have to be thankfull for their work, IF not I believe it would take longer for them to be added, they could even come only as part of a multi-national tree, like International Tech Tree or Axis Tree

  • Like 4
  • Confused 2
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering this game goes into the modern era, having an "Axis" tree doesn't make sense. What are you going to do in the later years, higher tiers, have Italy fight the Americans with Ariete's? We are talking about a conflict that ended more than 70 years ago. If the game stopped after WW2 then it makes sense. Basing trees on alliance systems is useless as alliances change over time. Nations and countries are more permanent. Looking at how things are developing, Italy may be out of the Euro soon and faced with a joint Franco-German army at their doorstep. Know one knows what the future will bring.

  • Thanks 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoiler
1 hour ago, armando30 said:

 and I never posted that they did, I posted about « close military cooperation during WWII », I believe the guys from the community proposal wrote that it was basically Germany on their own and Italy and Hungary fighting together on their "own" as well, something about holding the southern part of the Eastern Front together, IF I am remembering it correctly

 

there's one thing you guys are not realizing about this, wether they add Hungarian and Romanian vehicles or not IT WILL STILL BE THE ITALIAN GROUND FORCES RESEARCH TREE, the rest is just an extra, just like the Italians were in the German Aviation Tree, IF they do that they most likely will make the lines separate and thus you do not need to research the other vehicles if you do not want to

 

and about the "minor axis tree", IF we are to be honest there isn't much a difference in the number of vehicles that Hungary, Romania or Czechslovakia could put out in a GF Tree as compared to the Italians, especially since they expanded it to a more modern era, the only difference is that they don't have much options for aviation for all BRs, so, how would they do it? make 2 or 3 "Minor Axis" trees to have all of them? that's not gonna cut it, that means placing them together with others is the best option

 

but let me finnish by writing I have nothing against players wanting a Italian Tree in the game, I've been a supporter of that since day 1, it's just that the reasons given by those who claim that aren't really that strong, afterall having a few Hungarian or Romanian tanks as an extra DOES NOT make the tree NOT ITALIAN

I honestly believe that this sort of "idiotic" nationalism (just to make sure I am not calling you guys idiots) is not an excuse, it's a game, it's not like people are asking to give Hungarian cammo and insignia patterns to Italian tanks, each would be on their own with their own colors and their own insignias, wether you play them or not is up to you, and do not forget that it's called Italian GF Research Tree for convniency, it's in no way an official representation of the Italian Army

 

lastly, do not forget that FOR A LONG WHILE the thougt of a possible Italian Tree was completely shoved, they kep giving excuses about "still researching" and stuff, I do not know how much the info available can compare to the Germans, British, Soviets or Americans but it should still be more than enough for it, especially for aircraft where the Tech Tree is far from what could possibly be, people talk about the Reggiane aircraft but I know there's much more, especially the Caproni (Caproni Vizzola F.5 for example) and the attacker/heavy fighter aircraft, that is why I TRULY BELIEVE that projects like the Italian-Hungarian COmmunity Ground Forces Tree project and the amount of attention and support it gathered where crucial for the change in policy (that and the fact they started adding prototypes and that was no longer an excuse, like 2 or 3 years ago), you may think whatever you want but you truly have to be thankfull for their work, IF not I believe it would take longer for them to be added, they could even come only as part of a multi-national tree, like International Tech Tree or Axis Tree

 

so german tree is not a rappresentation of the wehrmacht? italy rappresent italy not italy with a joint force of nations that held up in the 40's we are talking about italy is not nationalism, we had a problem with italian vehicles in the german tree, we wanted rappresentation, and we ended up having, and i'm not a fan of sharing the cake with everyone that desires a bit of it, finally we are on our own and can be represented ase we should. this is why italy should get just it's stuff and maybe other countries stuff as premiums because that's marketing and we cannot do anything about it but putting some tars tanks or toldi in our lines, even separated is not something i'm a fan of just because if i want to play italy, going to the italian tree i want to see italian stuff not miscelaniuous stuff, look at france air tree, it didn't help them develop when they put american and british stuf in there, it's a punch in the eyes for me to look at and i don't want that messo into our tree. the fact i simple, italy on it's own can affort 100 and more planes and enough tanks to be up on it's own, we want to be up on our own, many of us want that, hungary romania bulgaria etc on their own can't have a full tree but giving the fact they were all in the axis and then all in warsaw pact, have much more in common then italy and hungary so they can share a tree not us. italians did fight with germans in africa too but germany has no other italian stuff,no tanks etc, and never was planned to have them there, the first planes where put there just because were famous enough and gaijin wanted to have enough numbers to win a prize, same story for those aircraft that are now idden, it was just marketing nothing more. we waited so long for italy to be added can we enjoy our tree all alone finally? without having to look at a mix up, i think you wouldn't enjoy a tree like that of france usa and britain all togheter, or would you? 

Edited by MadMax_ITA_
  • Confused 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can't we have a tree just for our self? just with our machines to look at and think, i'm proud this was added, i'm proud of what we did during ww2, i'm proud of the consideration we get, can't we? why do we have to look there and think, this doesn't belong to this place, this should not be here, why do we have to share glory? i came to look at our tanks and planes and i want those, finald did fought with germany but has no tanks in their tree a part from premiums, no planes. Czechoslovakia was a pupet so it hase it's stuf in the german tree but hungary was indipended, as we were, why doesn't germany have bulgarians romanians hungarians and italians tanks in their tree? because they don't belong there so they shouldn't be in our tree is simple as that is not nationalism

1 hour ago, Dalless said:

Considering this game goes into the modern era, having an "Axis" tree doesn't make sense. What are you going to do in the later years, higher tiers, have Italy fight the Americans with Ariete's? We are talking about a conflict that ended more than 70 years ago. If the game stopped after WW2 then it makes sense. Basing trees on alliance systems is useless as alliances change over time. Nations and countries are more permanent. Looking at how things are developing, Italy may be out of the Euro soon and faced with a joint Franco-German army at their doorstep. Know one knows what the future will bring.

as well as that why would make sense to have a joint hungarian and italian tree? whne hungary will come, if their tanks are added to italy, they will be removed leaving italy with a gap that could have been filled with our own stuff and would be bad for gameplay

  • Confused 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if they add a few hungarian tanks and decide to make a hungarian tech tree and then remove them for said tree, they will have to add new Italian vehicles at the same time. I don't think a few extra tanks will make a difference to the Italian tech tree if they are premiums for the east euro fan base but I would not want to see a whole pile of them as it would make the tree a joke for Italian fans. Just like having a bunch of Shermans in the tree would as well.

Anyway, I think we are overreacting to this possibility as I am sure Gaijin knows that including too many foreign vehicles would really tick off the fan base.

Believe me I am with you on this on an independent tree for Italy. For the Italians: "L'Italia farà da sè".

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

as well as that why would make sense to have a joint hungarian and italian tree? whne hungary will come, if their tanks are added to italy, they will be removed leaving italy with a gap that could have been filled with our own stuff and would be bad for gameplay

 

some of you guys are being delusional, you aren't even taking into account the work done by the community gathering INFO on Italian ground vehicles, how can you even use such kind of reasoning?

this is not W*T, 10 vehicles alone won't cut it to make a tech tree, don't take me wrong because I've been of the opinion that there's enough vehicles to make the Italian GF Tree, that does not change, HOWEVER the work of the community, even for Italian exclusive proposals, show the options will be limited, it will be quite similar to the current Japanese GF Tree, the work of the combined proposals was not just to make the Tree more appealing from having more content for Gaijin to add, even if it was not the original purpose their work is still important on a gameplay perspective, their addition definitly helps making a more competitive lineup, for that reason claiming that when/IF they are removed for a AXIS Tree (which I believe it's highly unlikely to happen with Hungarian, Romanian and Czech tech alone) it will leave the Italian GF Tree with gaps make no reason since the Hungarian and Romanian vehicles have been proposed precisely because they fill in some gaps

 

do you guys perhaps want the Italian GF Tree to be the «Japanese GF Tree v2»? a tree that is left for several updates without a addition, a tree with very few users, a tree that works just as an extra to help fill in the matches between the 4 "major" nations in the game, if you guys are OK with it then you aren't really thinking about the accurate representation of the vehicles in the game ut on something else that should not be welcome to a game, be it Politics or something else

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, armando30 said:

 

some of you guys are being delusional, you aren't even taking into account the work done by the community gathering INFO on Italian ground vehicles, how can you even use such kind of reasoning?

this is not W*T, 10 vehicles alone won't cut it to make a tech tree, don't take me wrong because I've been of the opinion that there's enough vehicles to make the Italian GF Tree, that does not change, HOWEVER the work of the community, even for Italian exclusive proposals, show the options will be limited, it will be quite similar to the current Japanese GF Tree, the work of the combined proposals was not just to make the Tree more appealing from having more content for Gaijin to add, even if it was not the original purpose their work is still important on a gameplay perspective, their addition definitly helps making a more competitive lineup, for that reason claiming that when/IF they are removed for a AXIS Tree (which I believe it's highly unlikely to happen with Hungarian, Romanian and Czech tech alone) it will leave the Italian GF Tree with gaps make no reason since the Hungarian and Romanian vehicles have been proposed precisely because they fill in some gaps

 

do you guys perhaps want the Italian GF Tree to be the «Japanese GF Tree v2»? a tree that is left for several updates without a addition, a tree with very few users, a tree that works just as an extra to help fill in the matches between the 4 "major" nations in the game, if you guys are OK with it then you aren't really thinking about the accurate representation of the vehicles in the game ut on something else that should not be welcome to a game, be it Politics or something else

It is not politics, albeit it may take time to make a joint Czech etc... After that those tanks will be removed because of no use in two trees, and yes I would prefer it like the japanese tree is, just with it's own stuff not because of nationalism or because I'm proud of anything and I hate Hungary, I love Hungarian tanks but I prefer Italians the most, and I think it can be an enjoyable tree even without external help, wait and see. And a part from that I don't like the idea of a mixed tree for Italy also because as the other 6 nations it is a major one, and should have the right to be competitive on it's own as the others have

Read what Dalles said, it would be practically saying, Italy suck so much that we have to give them some new toys to be competitive, no thank you we don't deserve that, even the french had an opportunity to shine, let us the same, Japan shines in mid tiers and up so just wait

  • Confused 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know but I see Japanese tanks quite often in battles and they are pretty nasty to deal with. So if Italy is like Japan's tree, great. And like many here are saying, let the minors be premiums and not too many. Aside from tier IV and late tier III in tanks, I don't see a big need to be honest. The M26 is already there to fill a gap. With a couple of Shermans, maybe a Panther for late WW2 ( I know they were never delivered), they would be basically covered. Italy has a ton of trucks, armoured cars and SPGs, I think they even captured a T34 so technically that could be put in the game but I don't think it fought. I also don't buy the community help angle and don't see the connection to filling possible gaps if the minors are removed. Most of the work is done by Gaijin and all submitted work must be vetted by them for accuracy. Also let's say that hypothetically Hungary got it's own tree with Czech and Romanian additions, would you be having this conversation? What was proposed at the beginning of this thread is three mini trees mushed into one. I think that satisfies no one. 

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, it does not satisfy neither the two of us fully, and to be honest what could Hungary bring us? Spgs? We have many many and so many to fill our line and also another, tanks? Just 20mm or 40mm cannons not so much we have even better things and would not help our ranks

  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dalless said:

So if Italy is like Japan's tree, great.

Unworthy comparison. xD

Italy is way better.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We currently dont have plans to separate the minor axis nations from Italy. Italian aircraft in particular have proven somewhat tricky to get information on, so bolstering them with minor axis machines and give those nations also a chance to be represented was the most logical and mutually beneficial system to be implemented, given how there is not really enough for these nations to have their own independent trees.

 

Also with the regard and comparison for those wanting a "pure" Italian tree, many nations have premiums from other countries or related nations. The USA has the Magach 3 (Israeli) and M4A5 (Canada), Britian has the STRV 81 (Sweeden), Wirraway and Boomerangs (Australia) and Russia has the Chinese Type 62 and 65. So Italy is really not an exception. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.