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Lorraine 40t with 65% winrate.


6 hours ago, Ratbold said:

 

Personal anecdotes won't change the facts. Against Russians and Germans your team is just wiped out, and then no degree of OP is enough to win the match on that alone. In other words, its performance can't be examined independently of the performance of the other tanks in the team. Making this whole thread's argument mute.

  

Which is also the reason why it Gaijin has such a hard time balancing the game. Likely is is impossible to balance without a late 21st century quantum computer. Over a number of shots early in the match, the allied teams lose out statistically because of GER/RUS troll armor and ammo, which creates opportunities for tanks like the Lorraine, which mostly fights on their side.

 

I'm ready to change my mind if the devs give us the win rate statistics on Brit/US vs. German/Russian and Brit/US vs. German/Russian/French matches. If they say I'm wrong, I'll accept that.

But so far all statistics point into that one direction.

 

The fact is that it can, and will be paired with Germans and Russians as well as Americans and Brits. The fact is that Lorraine has a much better win rate than any of the German or Russian tanks that are supposed to be carrying it according to your theory. How do you explain that?

 

Literally all the statistics point to the direction that Lorraine is overpowered. This is why the Tiger IIs, RU251s, T-44-100s and so forth are doing much worse. How can these 48-57% tanks be carrying a 65% tank to its success? Heck, even IS-6 is far behind it in win rate according to Thunderskill.

 

You are the one offering anecdotes here, making theories about the Lorraine being carried without offering any basis for them. You have yet to give us a single relevant fact yet you present your opinion as if everything you said was objectively true.

Edited by Per_Saukko
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exactly, the 65% success rating is really a pretty glaring nail in the coffin on the argument of the Loraine 40T being balanced. Mostly, I think it's success rate comes from constant down tiers and it being able to constantly club panthers and tiger I's before they get far out of spawn from across the map 

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21 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

exactly, the 65% success rating is really a pretty glaring nail in the coffin on the argument of the Loraine 40T being balanced. Mostly, I think it's success rate comes from constant down tiers and it being able to constantly club panthers and tiger I's before they get far out of spawn from across the map 

 

Yeah I've played it and it absolutely annihilates late war German tanks while still doing fine on uptiers

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The 65% win ratio of the Lorraine 40t is only a remain of the past.

It was far higher before the 40t went uptiered (~80% IIRC).

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On 29/07/2018 at 21:22, gimpy117 said:

exactly, the 65% success rating is really a pretty glaring nail in the coffin on the argument of the Loraine 40T being balanced. Mostly, I think it's success rate comes from constant down tiers and it being able to constantly club panthers and tiger I's before they get far out of spawn from across the map 

Downtiered? What game are you talking about? I'm downtiered 1 time a month at the Lorraine 40t.

I'm not even paired with BR 6.7, always superior.

Edited by Victor_Lafayette
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  • 2 weeks later...

panzer f2 has 65% so what. Noone is complaining.

 

But of course lorr 40t is a 7.0 tank at least. I agree about that 100%.

Edited by Max__Damage
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  • 2 months later...

Why this disease in form of tank still in 6.7???

P8triot (Posted )

While I get and sympathize with the feelings people have facing this vehicle, this is still a medical related reference friend.
I appreciate you obviously avoided the usual 'goto' medical references people often make, so just a caution that its best to avoid all medical references.
FRIENDLY WARNING
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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, you guys won: it will now go 7.0 and have the highest repair costs ever. This French player doesn't thank you. It was only justice to have a decent tank after all the crap we had to get through for this one. :( But nobody has a problem with the Leo A1 dropping in BR despite it being a superb tank... I will never understand WT players I guess.

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  • 1 month later...
On 26/07/2018 at 09:20, Ratbold said:

Only because Russians/Germans are on its side usually... If it played against them the winrates would severly diminish. 

Except that Tier 4 German tanks (6.0-7.0) have the worst win rates of all nations (below 50%)... This argument that I often hear is simply totally wrong. France (like Japan) actually plays with and against all nations at most BR... As a player with 700+ RB battles with French tanks (and 4000+ in AB), I can say that the most difficult opponent in RB in the 6.0-7.0 BR range is actually US+UK (that is when France plays... with Germany).

 

Here are the cards of the main tanks at BR 6.0-7.0 in RB (look first at the RB win rates; but French AB win rates will surprise some)

 

France (win rates in the 55-65% range)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_lorraine_40t

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_50

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_m4
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_13_75_ss11
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_13_75
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_13_90

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_lorraine_100

 

Germany (win rates in the 45-50% range)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_pzkpfw_VI_ausf_b_tiger_IIh_kwk46
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_pzkpfw_VI_ausf_b_tiger_IIh

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_panther_II

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_panzerjager_tiger_P_ferdinand
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_ru251
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_pzkpfw_VI_ausf_b_tiger_IIp
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_pzkpfw_V_ausf_g_panther

 

UK/US (win rates in the 45-55% range)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_t34

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_t92

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m56_scorpion

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m46_patton

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m41_walker_bulldog

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m26_pershing

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_fv221_caernarvon
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_centurion_mk_3

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_charioteer_mk_7

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_fv4202

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_vickers_mbt_mk_1

 

Russia (win rates in the 48-59% range)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_t_44

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_t_44_100

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_is_2_1944

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_isu_152

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_su_100_1945

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/ussr_asu_85

 

One month after its BR bump to 7.0, the Lorraine 40t has still the best monthly stats as well as the French line-up overall... Indeed, people reason too much in terms of the stats of individual tanks, while having a good and coherent overall line-up is much more important.


But gee, I never understood why so many players can't deal with the fact that the French Tier 4 line-up is the best in RB/SB (at a great SL cost...), while they do not ask BR 5.3-5.7 or Tier 5 Russian tanks to be nerfed or put at higher BR, or the Tier 2 German line-up to have a BR bump in RB (instead many German tanks have an absurd lower BR in RB than in AB...).

 

At all BR/Tier there is obviously a - sometimes just marginally - best line-up. French Tier 4 tanks are not OP at all, but the strengths of the French line-up are excellent mobility/fire rate and decent guns, which are just more important than armor and massive guns in the current meta of the game in RB...
Also, know that these weak-armored tanks are not easy at all to play and are only adequately handled by active players, and not passive ones/campers (hello, Tier 4 German tankers camping/hiding still behind your armor!).
In fact, I strongly suspect that part of the reason for the very good results of these Tier 4 French tanks is that only a few bad players actually play them (their excellent AB win rates compared to most other nation tanks are a strong indication of this).

So, just deal with "French bias" in Tier 4 (6.0-7.0), or simply grind/spade these French tanks if you think they are so "OP" (@Jagd27, @_Amatsukaze; I am always puzzled by people commenting on tanks they have never played)... while remembering that the people playing them had to endure the worse Tier 1 line-up and are paying ludicrous SL repair costs for them...

 

If you want to know more about the French ground forces in War Thunder, read my review which has been recently pinned by the forum moderators (thanks @P8triot):

 

Edited by No_Camping
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  • 1 month later...
On 23/12/2018 at 06:47, No_Camping said:

One month after its BR bump to 7.0, the Lorraine 40t has still the best monthly stats as well as the French line-up overall... Indeed, people reason too much in terms of the stats of individual tanks, while having a good and coherent overall line-up is much more important.

Of course still having the best stats...because are the same :lol2: . The last Thunderskill update was in October :lol2::lol2:

 

On 23/12/2018 at 06:47, No_Camping said:

 I never understood why so many players can't deal with the fact that the French Tier 4 line-up is the best in RB/SB (at a great SL cost...),

 

Dont counfuse the best with the most undertired, is not the same.

 

On 23/12/2018 at 06:47, No_Camping said:

In fact, I strongly suspect that part of the reason for the very good results of these Tier 4 French tanks is that only a few bad players actually play them (their excellent AB win rates compared to most other nation tanks are a strong indication of this).
 

LOL, I seen people with 30% win ratio with German or Soviets tier IV tanks meanwhile have 70% win ratio with Frenchs. Maybe you become in a good or bad player only changing nation.

 

On 23/12/2018 at 06:47, No_Camping said:

So, just deal with "French bias" in Tier 4 (6.0-7.0), or simply grind/spade these French tanks if you think they are so "OP" (@Jagd27, @_Amatsukaze; I am always puzzled by people commenting on tanks they have never played)..

 

The most funny part. Same mate, go and play few hundreds battles in rank IV with the others nations and enjoy be clubing by the stupid undertired tanks.

 

On 23/12/2018 at 06:47, No_Camping said:

while remembering that the people playing them had to endure the worse Tier 1 line-up and are paying ludicrous SL repair costs for them...

 

You can avoid Tier 1 in only few battles so is not a valid argument for obtain stupid low BRs for the resto of the tree and about repair cost , Ferdinand say hello.

 

PD. Enjoy while you can of your precious undertired 40T and another French tanks, because after the new pen buff i see another BR bump :lol2:

Bye.

Edited by Jagd27
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1 hour ago, Jagd27 said:

Enjoy while you can of your precious undertired 40T and another French tanks, because after the new pen buff i see another BR bump :lol2:

 

 

French 4.7 will probably become 5.0. Their SPAA has what, 90mm of penetration now? With the French Sherman’s also getting decent buffs.

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guys, do not mistake one tank % victory with what it is forced and falsy counted as a victory
frenches paires alot with powercreep or teams that crushes the enemy with no chances,
frenches faces alot of the times teams that CAN NOT faces the teams frances is paired up with.

 

to not mistake enflated %winrate with that, and france suffers alot from it ,becaus of USA teams either being rediculous xxxx, or complelty crushing the enemy, without you or half the teams done nothing

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  - Oh my god! A tank who are good in an another nation than our precious Soviet/Germany paradise! heresy! its a cheat!!! What? nono our RU251 is really good at 6.7, its a premium so its normal he must be better and 1.0 Br lower than Patton M47/48. look Type 61 or STA1. Object 120, Object 906 or even BMP1-2 are 7.3 to 8.0 with same to better mobility 4 to 6 second natural relaod without autoloader and super pen APHE-BC, High Heat-fs or APDS-FS of grenade heat+ATGM and they dont cost 2000 to 4000 for repair, not 25k even all together!! And so many other tank with super low BR vs Brits.US T5/T6

 

AND like for Brits and USA its not the problems of high BR of other Tanks + problems of ammo not the best compared to Axis/soviet+ long relaod + not stability+ so so crap mobility(for US/brits only). And other big problem is the Matchmaking.. Except in T5 where French are very frequently to the super easy OP win axis side, like Soviet

Edited by Pexitron
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Reopening this because of a new issue with the Lorraine 40t.  Now that it sits at BR 7.3 (and still does extremely well thanks to the pen buff), I am of the opinion that the Lorraine should no longer be a rank IV vehicle.  It needs to be pushed into rank V, with the French mediums reworked.  M4A4 SA50 -> AMX M4 -> Rank V Lorraine seems much more sensible than the current leap of BR 4.7 to BR 7.3 in the space of one rank.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Unplayable? Have you seen the winrates? I tried playing some Sim and a single Lorraine just wiped 10 people.. I check Thunderskill.. it sits at a 97% winrate...NINETY SEVEN for Sim.. and still 70% at RB and a k/d of 3 in all modes.. absolutely ridiculous. 

 

I love how gaijin nerfs stuff left and right regarding vehicles that are barely getting by and sometimes are just a tad better than others, whilst purposefully ignoring the major inbalances.. usually I get that they need to uphold Russian bias and that's why the KV-220 or the IS-7 never get any kind of balancing done and are free to run rampant for years.. but I can't apply Russian bias to French vehicles but there's a number of French vehicles with insane winrates.

 

But yeah let's instead focus on nerfing pen values and such whilst we have vehicles with 97% winrates or about 10% for the opposite team when they get a few games where they don't face these vehicles. 

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french power come from the auto-loader, and maybe mobility too
thats all...

 

Leo 2A5... wow 99% winrate, wow not costly repair cost, wow at a BR that block al lthe shots....yea right, complain on french whene litraly all other nation are better than france....

are you happy that france does not have the most penetrating APFSDS shell in the game ?

are you happy that france cant even get to be played above 4.7 ?
are you happy that THE ONLY STABILIZED tank is a top tier ?

 

what are you even looking at ? you are looking at everywrong things in the french vehicles

 

you are complaining about 1 small thing where other can excell everywhere else...go tal kabout other nation and LEAVE FRANCE ALONE. peopl like you are what are killing france,

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That's because no one plays the Lorraine. Only excellent players can afford the line up. That's why the win rate is so high. But I haven't even seen one in months now in RB.

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French are not played as much as the major nations obviously, but the Lorraine is played as the Tiger H1, KV-1E, Cobra King, Panther D according to thunderskill.. unless you somehow never see those vehicles either.. Lorraine is as frequently played as most.

In Sim it's top 10 most played vehicles, top 5 if you don't count top tier.

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7 hours ago, Miragen said:

In Sim it's top 10 most played vehicles, top 5 if you don't count top tier.

i dont play sim too, but maybe becaus in all french tanks, thats like one of the only viable ones, because :
-lack of armor
-lack of ammo types
-lack of scope
-lack of mobility
....

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On 25/07/2018 at 16:41, otomai said:

Wonderful.

Why is this tank still sits at its current BR? Leo A1A1's br was increased, while this tank still roflstomps everything it sees.

It should be 7.7

 

Rather big paper tank with a autoloader with 300mm pen APCBC solid ronds in 7.7?

 

Do you really want that? i mean, the higher the BR the less armour it faces. and in 7.7 it would only be stronger.

 

-int br7.7 it would face tanks with even less armour... it will face more often higher tier tanks, and higher tier tanks(8.0-8.7) has less armour than lower tier tanks (6.7-7.7) that works against non apfsds, apds and heat-fs shells like APCBC that the lorraine fires.

-In br7.7 it would only face tanks with more penetration but less overall damage per shell heat-fs, apds, apfsds... while avoiding its weakness APHE.

-Around br 7.7 very few tanks will still have stabilizers so they will not counter it really on that plane.

-In br7.7 its mobility is still much greater than most medium and lighttanks, so its speed will not be countered.

 

If the lorraine is put higher up in the PR spectrum, it will only become better as a tank.

 

if it is where it is the lorraine 40t will...

 

-Face more tanks that has the armour nessesary to counter it...is-3, is-6, maus, is-4m, m103 (frontally at least), T32E1, T32, Tiger II's, T54's (all versions), and a few more.

-Face more tanks that has similar mobility to counter it, there are few tanks around 7.7-8.0 that has that mobility. most tanks that has that mobility is at br6.7.

-Face much more APHE that is its weakness.. heat-fs, apds and apfsds will not as often outright kill the lorraine 40t like APHE does, and after 7.3 APHE becomes very rare.

 

In my conclution, 7.3 is the best place for it to be in.

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