*tester188

24/7/18 [1.79.1.154] Ki-45 otsu's 37 mm Type 94 tank gun shells incorrect specification

1. The full name of the vehicle affected. 

  • Ki-45 otsu


2. A detailed description of the issue you have or what you see as being erroneous regarding its representation in-game.

Ki-45 otsu is equipped with 37 mm Type 94 tank gun, but the specifications of APHE and HE are incorrect.

 

  • In history:
    • Type 94 HE:
      • Projectile Mass: 0.645 kg
      • Explosive type: 34% Picric acid + 66% TNT
      • Explosive mass: 58.3 g (20 g + 38.3 g)

 

  • Type 94 APHE:
    • Projectile Mass: 0.700 kg
    • Explosive type: Picric acid
    • Explosive mass: 10 g

 

  • In game:
    • HEF:
      • Projectile Mass: 0.6 kg
      • Explosive type: TNT
      • Explosive mass: 35 g

 

  • APHE:
    • Projectile Mass: 0.46 kg
    • Explosive type: PETN
    • Explosive mass: 13 g

 

3. Unless the data is taken from an official Gaijin statement, please provide a documented test and provide the Client Log from that session.

I checked the modifications window after confirming that it was equipped with 37 mm Type 94 tank gun.

Spoiler

SQBGcqZ.jpg

 

9sq5uDb.jpg

 

yR1SUWH.jpg

 

enNz5HC.jpg

 

Sample

Type 95 Ha-Go light tank has the same 37 mm Type 94 cannon as Ki-45 otsu. However, since the Type 94 APHE in the game is inaccurate, I would like to post a new bug report in the "Ground Vehicle 3D Visual, performance, handling and damage models" section on another occasion.

FVuFazu.jpg

 

cNmbd7D.jpg

 

5TM5bOe.jpg

 

Client Log

2018_07_24_10_58_21__10280.clog


4. A detailed description of the fix you suggest. Provide sources including reference that underline your position.

I would like to suggest that you change the specifications of HEF and APHE as follows.

 

  • HEF:
    • Projectile Mass: 0.6 --> 0.645 kg
    • Explosive type: TNT --> 34% Picric acid +  66% TNT
    • Explosive mass: 35 g --> 58.3 g

 

  • APHE:
    • Projectile Mass: 0.46 --> 0.700 kg
    • Explosive type: PETN --> Picric acid
    • Explosive mass: 13 g --> 10 g

 

Sources

#1 Official technical documentation:

Spoiler

MyEb8Pp.jpg

 

0pBmWwD.jpg

Quote

九四式三十七粍砲彈藥九四式徹甲彈々藥筒槪說 (37 mm Type 94 APHE Shell Introduction)

全備彈量〇・七〇〇瓩  (Projectile weight: 0.700 kg)

炸藥ハ黃色藥 (Explosive charge type: Picric acid)

全炸藥量十瓦 (Explosive charge weight: 10 g)

 

lSrxZP9.jpg

Quote

九四式三十七粍砲彈藥九四式榴彈々藥筒槪說 (37 mm Type 94 HE Shell Introduction)

全備彈量〇・六四五瓩 (Projectile weight: 0.645 kg)

炸藥ハ (Explosive charge type):

黃色藥約二〇瓦 (Picric acid: approximately 20 g)

茶褐藥約三八・三瓦 (TNT: approximately 38.3 g)

 

Authorizing provisional standard for Model 94 armor-piercing shell of Model 94 37-mm gun ammunition and 4 other items (九四式37粍砲弾薬九四式徹甲弾外4点仮制式制定の件). by Kishimoto Ayao, Chief, Army Special Bureau of Technology. July 1935. pp. 8, 13.

https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/das/meta-en/C01001393100

https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/aj/contents/pdf/C01/C01001393100.c0010500021.daikou_138.1085_01.pdf

 

#2 Technical documents of the Allied Forces side:

Spoiler

o0ckRUm.jpg

 

72xrZkU.jpg

 

i8c3y36.jpg

Japanese ammunition data, 25 MM-70 MM, 20 July 1945. Report No. 12-b(52), USSBS Index Section 6. pp. 22, 25.

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/4009975?itemId=info%3Andljp%2Fpid%2F4009975&__lang=en

 

 

Reference on TNT equivalent of picric acid.

#3 Captured and translated technical document:

Spoiler

hXehCPo.jpg

Translation No. 82, 18 July 1945, data on Japanese explosives. Report No. 3-d(67), USSBS Index Section 6. p. 5.

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/4009523/6?itemId=info%3Andljp%2Fpid%2F4009523&contentNo=6&__lang=en

digidepo_4009523_PDF.pdf

 

Imperial Japanese Navy designated picric acid as "Shimose". I previously filed a bug report on destroyer Yugumo's 127 mm HE. It may be a reference for determining the TNT equivalent amount of picric acid.

 

I got information in the past about RE Factor of picric acid from Technical Moderator @Conraire who is familiar with tank shell's explosives.

 

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Your Bug Report is submitted.

 

This thread will remain unlocked for 7 days in order to allow anyone with information / evidence / examples to post them.

It will also serve as a place where the developers may post questions for you to answer, so please keep up to date here.

 

Thank you for helping us improving the game.

 

Sincerely,

Rapitor, for the ™ team

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