Tasty95215

Experimental Type 3 Ke-Ri - Literally just the Ha-Go with the Type 97 57mm gun

Experimental Type 3 Ke-Ri  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the Type 3 Ke-Ri in War Thunder

    • Yes
      106
    • No
      6
  2. 2. How should it be added?

    • Tech tree (standalone)
      16
    • Tech tree (foldered with the Ha-Go)
      26
    • Premium
      4
    • Event tank
      4
    • I said no to the first question
      3


Type 3 Ke-Ri.jpg

Credit goes to @I_NAMELESS_I for the model

 

The experimental Type 3 Ke-Ri was, as the title of this suggestion says, a modification of the Type 95 Ha-Go. This 1943 test replaced the 37mm gun of the Ha-Go with the Type 97 57mm tank gun of the Chi-Ha. At this point in the war the Type 2 HEAT had been developed for 57mm tank guns, giving them better anti-tank capabilities (at least against light tanks) as well as a more useful HE shell compared to the 37mm.

 

 

3SHIKI-K.jpg

A drawing of the experimental Type 3 Ke-Ri

 

However, the Ha-Go's 1-man turret was already considered extremely cramped, and replacing the 37mm with the larger 57mm made it even more so. It was so bad that just getting into and out of the tank was nigh-impossible, not to mention operating the gun. As such, the Ke-Ri was rejected. Later, the Type 4 Ke-Nu (whose proper name should be Ke-Ru instead) conversion was done to solve this. Instead of replacing just the gun, the entire Ha-Go turret was replaced with the Chi-Ha's instead, which (along with the widening of the turret ring from a diameter of 1000mm to 1350mm) gave the two turret crewmen more room, though the weight of the tank ended up being increased by 1 ton.

 

 

Ha-Go_57mm.jpg

According to the Japanese tank researcher Taki, this newspaper article supposedly showing the Type 95 Ha-Go with a 57mm tank gun is a fake, manufactured by the Japanese government for censorship purposes. This article was published in 1939, years before the experimental Ke-Ri was built.  

 

Specifications:

 

As the only change from the Ha-Go to the Ke-Ri was the gun, all other specifications would be identical to the Ha-Go in War Thunder. The Type 97 57mm tank gun, despite being a larger caliber, actually weighs less than both models of 37mm that the Ha-Go used, though not by much. Specifically, the Type 97 57mm weighs 150 kg, the Type 94 37mm weighs 184.5 kg, and the Type 98 37mm weighs 191.5 kg. The difference in speed and mobility compared to the regular Ha-Go would be completely negligible.

 

Type_97_57mm.jpg

The Type 97 57mm tank gun

 

Ammunition

 

From what I've found, the Type 97 57mm tank gun could fire five different types of ammunition, although only one of them is currently in War Thunder. Credit goes to @aizenns for the bug report on the Type 90 57mm ammunition, which is where I got a lot of this information.

Spoiler

 

57bf9ecea46f9d1440528209ffa28b11.png

Page 18 of file A03032103400, marked by aizenns

 

 

  • Type 90 training projectile. Carries 75 grams of an unknown type of explosive and has a muzzle velocity of 355.3 m/s.
  • Type 90 HE. Carries 250 grams of TNT and has a muzzle velocity of 355.3 m/s.
  • Type 92 APHE. Carries 103 grams of a mixture of TNT/Picric acid and has a muzzle velocity of 349.3 m/s. This shell is already in the game.
  • Type 1 APHE. I haven't been able to find much about this round, other than it having a muzzle velocity of 420 m/s, thicker shell walls (and presumably less explosive mass) than the Type 92 APHE, and a total weight of 3.25 kg (as compared to the Type 92 APHE's 3.13 kg). It started being used around the middle of 1942. This is also apparently the only round that isn't compatible with the older Type 90 57mm.
  • Type 3 HEAT. Penetrates 55mm of armor at all ranges and has a muzzle velocity of 380 m/s. This shell is already in the game.

 

xMJTL4M.jpg

Post-war specifications on various Japanese light tanks. As you can see, the Ke-Ri and the Ha-Go (called the "Ke-Go" here) are identical in pretty much every aspect aside from the gun.

 

 

In War Thunder

 

Compared to the I-Go and Chi-Ha, the Ke-Ri would be much more mobile, but that would come at the cost of having a worse reload rate due to the 1-man turret. The armor and crew count would be worse as well. Still, the Ke-Ri should be fairly decent in Rank 1 battles, using its speed to flank better flank enemies and one-shot them from point blank with the APHE, or just to find better firing positions to shoot from afar with the HEAT.

 

Sources:

Edited by Tasty95215
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Open for discussion. :salute:

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1 hour ago, Tasty95215 said:

 

According to the Japanese tank researcher Taki, this newspaper article supposedly showing the Type 95 Ha-Go with a 57mm tank gun is a fake, manufactured by the Japanese government for censorship purposes. This article was published in 1939, years before the experimental Ke-Ri was built.  

Supporting evidence

Spoiler

 

oMekr3V.png

發行所東京市京橋銀座西七丁目一番地社團法人同盟通信社

編集發行兼印刷人大川幸之介・印刷部東京市下谷車坂

時事寫眞新報社・定價壹ヶ月(A)金五圓也(B)金貮圓五拾錢

昭和八年七月廿日第三種郵便物認可・昭和十四年四月十二日(水)第七七一號

 

Issuer: Tokyo-city, Kyobashi Ginza Nishi 7-chome 1-banchi, Dōmei News Agency corporation

Publisher and Printer: Okawa Sachinosuke ・ Print section: Tokyo-city, Shitaya-Kurumazaka

Jiji-Shashin Shimpo・Price: 1 month, plan (A) is 5 Yen, and plan (B) is 5-Yen 2-Sen

Third-class mail authorization: July 20, Showa 8 ・ April 12, Showa 14 (Wednesday) , No.771

(Translation note: In that time Japanese sentence wrote right to left)

 

 

This tank is that we really need. Japan need more Imperial tanks!

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I hope to see this tank in game, but don't forget why this tank is only "Experimental".

Ha-Go turret is too small to equip 57mm TKG: in history, when test no man cannot into turret. If add this in game, reload speed will be is very low

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On 28/06/2018 at 07:53, aizenns said:

in history, when test no man cannot into turret

 

I agree that the reload should be slower than the I-Go and Chi-Ha, but was it actually impossible to enter the turret or just really difficult? From what I've read, entering the tank itself was possible, since the tank did go through tests.

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42 minutes ago, xxkvasirxx said:

i hate the gun ... but i like the idea ... why not could be fun

 

 

The 57mm gun does hurt, it's just hard to aim.  Having a smaller platform than the huge Chi-ha for it could be fun!

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3 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

 

I agree that the reload should be slower than the I-Go and Chi-Ha, but was it actually impossible to enter the turret or just really difficult? From what I've read, entering the tank itself was possible, since the tank did go through tests.

I'm sorry, its my fault.

I misunderstood, but in history difficult to operate 57mm TKG. Commander was able to go into turret and use its gun.

 

http://combat1.sakura.ne.jp/3SHIKI-K.htm

Edited by aizenns
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I hope to see this little guys eventually. +1 

 

On 27/06/2018 at 18:47, Tasty95215 said:

The experimental Type 3 Ke-Ri was, as the title of this suggestion says, a modification of the Type 95 Ha-Go. This 1943 test replaced the 37mm gun of the Ha-Go with the Type 97 57mm tank gun of the Chi-Ha. While this may seem like an odd trade, considering how poor the performance of the 57mm is in War Thunder, at this point in the war the Type 2 HEAT had been developed for the Chi-Ha, which gave the short 57mm better anti-tank capabilities as well as a more useful HE shell compared to the 37mm.

An example of the game mechanics of War Thunder doing a disservice to the effectiveness of certain weapons in reality. 

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On 28/06/2018 at 15:19, *BrentD15 said:

If it gets HEAT shells, then yes.

 

I'm aware that many of us may knew about this but since op has not updating this topic so i'm just going to tell those who are not aware of Type 3 HEAT being added and worry about performance of  57mm gun, no worry we got the HEAT now and this vehicle will be able to use this shell.

So please support this suggestion! :good:

1345432703_shot2019_01_1905_12_23.jpg.77

 

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On 18/01/2019 at 20:18, I_NAMELESS_I said:

 

I'm aware that many of us may knew about this but since op has not updating this topic so i'm just going to tell those who are not aware of Type 3 HEAT being added and worry about performance of  57mm gun, no worry we got the HEAT now and this vehicle will be able to use this shell.

So please support this suggestion! :good:

1345432703_shot2019_01_1905_12_23.jpg.77

 

 

Thanks for reminding me to update this.

 

I've also added another question in the poll as to where this vehicle should go. Personally, I think it'd work foldered in with the normal Ha-Go.

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So for some reason i can not vote where this tank should go.

But in my opinion i think it could fit at 1.3 like Chi-Ha because if you compare Ke-Ri to the Ha-Go right now the Ke-Ri is way better because it can pen 55mm armor at any range while the Ha-Go does barely pen 40mm of armor. 

 

It would fit better as a premium or event tank while have the Ke-Nu at the same BR of 1.3 but as a tech tree vehicle instead.

Although at 1.0 it would not hurt either and if Ha-Go is allowed to use Type 1 37mm then it should be comparable to the Ke-Ri, HEAT vs APHE, they both have pros and cons...

Edited by I_NAMELESS_I
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Agreed +1 as Event/Premium tank, as the Type 4 Ke-Nu is effectively the same vehicle but better. (And that one entered production)

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39 minutes ago, ShimakazeChan said:


I Was Wondering (Sorry For Off-Topic) But Isn't The Type 74 In Game A Mod F?

In game one did not have Thermal Sleeve, so Model C or ealier.

It’s too off-topick/ Nitpicking one but Type 89 is not IFV, it’s “FV” (They often call it 89FV or FV) because JGSDF can’t use word “Infantry”.

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On 03/02/2019 at 16:36, ShimakazeChan said:

I Was Wondering (Sorry For Off-Topic) But Isn't The Type 74 In Game A Mod F?

Too be honest i was not sure either what Type 74 we have in the game but according to my knowledge the B and C can use APFSDS.

Mod C has 2 tones camouflage which is the paint i'm using for my Type 74 :)

Edited by I_NAMELESS_I
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