Hussar91

Gaijin, why do you hate the British?

2 hours ago, Vince_Grant said:

Those of you complaining about Cent mk10 and Vickers MBT, must be playing RB, cause in AB, they are probably the best 7.0 lineup. The accuracy buff along with buff to HESH made the Cent mk10 my absolute favorite tank by far.

 

I don't remember seeing any patch notes about HESH - what was changed about it?

 

Last time I even tried using 105/120mm HESH it was very unreliable and you generally needed to hit the bottom of turner cheeks to splash ammo in the hull.

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57 minutes ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

I don't remember seeing any patch notes about HESH - what was changed about it?

 

Last time I even tried using 105/120mm HESH it was very unreliable and you generally needed to hit the bottom of turner cheeks to splash ammo in the hull.

I think Vince_Grant is referring to the HESH penetration rework.

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6 hours ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

I don't remember seeing any patch notes about HESH - what was changed about it?

 

Last time I even tried using 105/120mm HESH it was very unreliable and you generally needed to hit the bottom of turner cheeks to splash ammo in the hull.

 

5 hours ago, gomine123 said:

I think Vince_Grant is referring to the HESH penetration rework.

I’ll have to take a look at HESH again. If it’s more reliable I’d love to be deleting Russians with my Conqueror and Chieftain MK3! Might also run a 7.0 lineup to spade my 105mm MBTs...

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3 hours ago, CRGKevin said:

 

I’ll have to take a look at HESH again. If it’s more reliable I’d love to be deleting Russians with my Conqueror and Chieftain MK3! Might also run a 7.0 lineup to spade my 105mm MBTs...

 

Do not do it. The British HESH is still very bad. Only FV4005 and AVRE premium are good. The rest of the tanks are garbage (equal to G)

Edited by EASYOKO
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who knows what HESH does anymore? its been nerfed into the ground and then might recieve a slight buff, only to get nerfed again. about the only thing modeled is the 90 degree splash damage, the rest doesn't even make sense. unless you have one of the 3 UK HESH launchers, why carry HESH unless to hull break a SPAA or truck?

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To everyone who thinks about starting to play War Thunder. Do not start. Go find another war game. This game is very unbundled. Play with the Soviet or suffer forever.

4 shots on T-54 to die with 1 shot of Leopard.

Frankly ... do not start playing this. This game was already better .. today is just another crap to occupy space in the pc's hard drive.

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Playing the British is like playing find waldo. Where waldo is the pixel sized weak spot that some people like to cite when defending obviously overpowered tanks such as the IS6. While everyone else playing against the British is playing a point and click adventure, where just about clicking anywhere on the British tank causes at the very least critical damage.

 

I tiered up the British tree around the time of the British rocket spam. Playing the comet at 5.3, i even intentionally tiered myself up to 5.7 to bring the Spitfire Griffon. I still enjoy playing the Centurion MK1, and to a lesser extent the FV4202 and the Caernarvon. For their tier, the mobility issues are not abnormally poor.

 

But going up to 7.0 and beyond is dreadful. The Centurion MK10 and the Vickers MBT cannot penetrate anything for ****, see the waldo analogy above. But it's not all bad, you get a stabilized gun in a BR where few has it, which makes it possible to get in a critical hit in a situation where both you and your opponent is moving. Though this requires skill, and you better hope you caused damage to the gunner, gun or turret movement else you're dead shortly after. So 7.0 is bad.

 

But the Chieftain (8.3) is literally unplayable. First of, i'm quite curious as to whats the point of having a 120mm gun with APDS when the Soviets get APFSDS on their 100mm. The entire point of the British is a superb turret, with a huge gun, crippled by poor mobility. But the mobility is not just poor, it's abysmal. It's so bad, certain maps are impossible to perform even vaguely decent on, and certain spawn points are off limits. But what about just sitting in the back? Good luck with that. Despite the fact that the Chieftain came standard with a rangefinder, the in game upgrade is not really an upgrade. It doesn't improve the rangefinder, it adds the rangefinder which is standard equipment to begin with. The entire doctrine the tank was created around is completely nullified via the absence of the range finder.

 

That is just mentioning the individual tanks. With the recent changes to vehicle costs in tank realistic, you can't even get a full lineup of your xxxx tanks. The main battle tanks are 8.3, 8.7, 9.3 and 9.7. You can obviously bring an anti aircraft piece, a rocket launcher, and an IFC. But playing the Chieftain MK3, you have a single main tank with a gun. It's not like Gaijin have not taken steps to resolve this issue in the past. The soviet tree has 5 tanks at 7.3 to 7.7, then 3 different T54 added on top of that. The American tree has two different MBT70s, three different Abrams. Why can't they add Chieftain MK1, Mk2, Mk4 etc and maybe even centurion MK2,3,4 etc to pad out the tree a little bit. Don't force us to research them, if you want to move on you can do that. But if you want a more complete lineup, you can research what is essentially the same vehicle over and over.

 

This is not something new either, there are 4 different Panthers within .3 BR in the game. 3 T54 at the same BR, 2 Tiger 1s, 3 PZ4 within .3 BR. And if that is an issue, why not just make something up? Gaijin added the Leopard 1 with the L44 120mm gun, but can't add a couple British tanks to BR 6-10 to make a more complete lineup.

 

Last point. The Chieftain Mk3 was given a laser rangefinder in the 70s, while the APFSDS ammo for the Soviet 100mm was not developed until the late 70s. Yet the T55 has the APFSDS, but the Chieftain does not have a laser range finder. The 120mm L44 gun was just starting production in 1979. So playing the British Chieftain MK3, you're essentially playing in the 1958 T55 to the 1980 M1/leo 2 era. Except the T55 has modern technologies added to compensate, the Chieftain does not. Add a laser rangefinder and British APFSDS to the Chieftain MK3 or do something about the BR. It's woefully incapable of competing with 1980s technology and vehicles as it stands.

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20 hours ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

I don't remember seeing any patch notes about HESH - what was changed about it?

 

Last time I even tried using 105/120mm HESH it was very unreliable and you generally needed to hit the bottom of turner cheeks to splash ammo in the hull.

 

I believe the penetration mechanics was changed in 1.79, so 105mm got 127mm - 133mm - 142mm @ 0, 30 and 60 angles. HESH is very situational, and works best against vertical armor that you hit at an angle. Shooting HESH at the UFP of T-44, T-54´s etc. wont do much other than break fueltank, driver and occasionally breach and a track. But to the back of the turret or commanders hatch/cupola, it usually kills the tank, or atleast clears the turret of crews, leaving only the driver left. Side shots to Tiger II´s are very likely to detonate the ammoracks in the hull or back of turret, but tbh i usually go for APDS to the back of turret, now that there is forced ready rack.

 

As i´ve said elsewhere, 105mm APDS is very random. When it works, it makes the Centurion mk10 undertiered, but when it it doesnt, its borderline unplayable.

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21 hours ago, Novat93 said:

Playing the British is like playing find waldo. Where waldo is the pixel sized weak spot that some people like to cite when defending obviously overpowered tanks such as the IS6. While everyone else playing against the British is playing a point and click adventure, where just about clicking anywhere on the British tank causes at the very least critical damage.

 

I tiered up the British tree around the time of the British rocket spam. Playing the comet at 5.3, i even intentionally tiered myself up to 5.7 to bring the Spitfire Griffon. I still enjoy playing the Centurion MK1, and to a lesser extent the FV4202 and the Caernarvon. For their tier, the mobility issues are not abnormally poor.

 

But going up to 7.0 and beyond is dreadful. The Centurion MK10 and the Vickers MBT cannot penetrate anything for ****, see the waldo analogy above. But it's not all bad, you get a stabilized gun in a BR where few has it, which makes it possible to get in a critical hit in a situation where both you and your opponent is moving. Though this requires skill, and you better hope you caused damage to the gunner, gun or turret movement else you're dead shortly after. So 7.0 is bad.

 

But the Chieftain (8.3) is literally unplayable. First of, i'm quite curious as to whats the point of having a 120mm gun with APDS when the Soviets get APFSDS on their 100mm. The entire point of the British is a superb turret, with a huge gun, crippled by poor mobility. But the mobility is not just poor, it's abysmal. It's so bad, certain maps are impossible to perform even vaguely decent on, and certain spawn points are off limits. But what about just sitting in the back? Good luck with that. Despite the fact that the Chieftain came standard with a rangefinder, the in game upgrade is not really an upgrade. It doesn't improve the rangefinder, it adds the rangefinder which is standard equipment to begin with. The entire doctrine the tank was created around is completely nullified via the absence of the range finder.

 

That is just mentioning the individual tanks. With the recent changes to vehicle costs in tank realistic, you can't even get a full lineup of your xxxx tanks. The main battle tanks are 8.3, 8.7, 9.3 and 9.7. You can obviously bring an anti aircraft piece, a rocket launcher, and an IFC. But playing the Chieftain MK3, you have a single main tank with a gun. It's not like Gaijin have not taken steps to resolve this issue in the past. The soviet tree has 5 tanks at 7.3 to 7.7, then 3 different T54 added on top of that. The American tree has two different MBT70s, three different Abrams. Why can't they add Chieftain MK1, Mk2, Mk4 etc and maybe even centurion MK2,3,4 etc to pad out the tree a little bit. Don't force us to research them, if you want to move on you can do that. But if you want a more complete lineup, you can research what is essentially the same vehicle over and over.

 

This is not something new either, there are 4 different Panthers within .3 BR in the game. 3 T54 at the same BR, 2 Tiger 1s, 3 PZ4 within .3 BR. And if that is an issue, why not just make something up? Gaijin added the Leopard 1 with the L44 120mm gun, but can't add a couple British tanks to BR 6-10 to make a more complete lineup.

 

Last point. The Chieftain Mk3 was given a laser rangefinder in the 70s, while the APFSDS ammo for the Soviet 100mm was not developed until the late 70s. Yet the T55 has the APFSDS, but the Chieftain does not have a laser range finder. The 120mm L44 gun was just starting production in 1979. So playing the British Chieftain MK3, you're essentially playing in the 1958 T55 to the 1980 M1/leo 2 era. Except the T55 has modern technologies added to compensate, the Chieftain does not. Add a laser rangefinder and British APFSDS to the Chieftain MK3 or do something about the BR. It's woefully incapable of competing with 1980s technology and vehicles as it stands.

 

It is a shame to have reduced Chieftain ammunition (400mm to 320) and increased BR to 8.3

At the very least it should have decreased BR to 7.3

The biggest shame is the Mk5 being 8.7


GAIJIN: ONLY PASS SHAME

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6 minutes ago, EASYOKO said:

 

It is a shame to have reduced Chieftain ammunition (400mm to 320) and increased BR to 8.3

At the very least it should have decreased BR to 7.3

The biggest shame is the Mk5 being 8.7


GAIJIN: ONLY PASS SHAME

The flat penetration nerf is realistic. However, British APDS (and virtually all 17pdr ammunition) still has incorrect penetration values (one of the mods made a report on it about a year ago, suffice to say nothing has been fixed).

 

Chief Mk.3 and 5 should have the same BR, they are practically identical. Other vehicles such as T-54 experience massive changes between variants which greatly improve their effectiveness, yet they all have the same BR.

Gaijin, this is frankly ridiculous, the Mk.5 is a Mk.3 with a slightly better engine, revised ammunition layout and NBC upgrade. This is not enough to justify a BR increase. At least give it its proper ammunition of L15A4 and A5.

If you change it to the Mk.5/4, which has the MRS, TLRF and L23 APFDS (and is the only vehicle that should have L23, as it was phased out years before Chief Mk 10 and Chally entered service), it would justify the 8.7 BR. You currently seem to think it is on par with the T-55AM-1 which, spoiler alert, it isn't, AT ALL. Not even a Chief Mk 10 is on par with that thing

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1 hour ago, Shrike142 said:

The flat penetration nerf is realistic. However, British APDS (and virtually all 17pdr ammunition) still has incorrect penetration values (one of the mods made a report on it about a year ago, suffice to say nothing has been fixed).

 

Chief Mk.3 and 5 should have the same BR, they are practically identical. Other vehicles such as T-54 experience massive changes between variants which greatly improve their effectiveness, yet they all have the same BR.

Gaijin, this is frankly ridiculous, the Mk.5 is a Mk.3 with a slightly better engine, revised ammunition layout and NBC upgrade. This is not enough to justify a BR increase. At least give it its proper ammunition of L15A4 and A5.

If you change it to the Mk.5/4, which has the MRS, TLRF and L23 APFDS (and is the only vehicle that should have L23, as it was phased out years before Chief Mk 10 and Chally entered service), it would justify the 8.7 BR. You currently seem to think it is on par with the T-55AM-1 which, spoiler alert, it isn't, AT ALL. Not even a Chief Mk 10 is on par with that thing


Problem is : Challenger 1 Mark 2 haves L15A5 and it's the same penetration value in game ( nice logic about this, L15A3 = L15A5 .. )

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Gaijin hate the British)))

Quote

Centurion Mk.3 // Strv 81 (Rb.52) - The number of shots for the first order ammo-racks has been changed from 11 to 8. Source: de la Riviere, D. (1951). A motion study of the ammunition stowage of Centurion 3.

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/245969-1791136-centurion-mk3-bk-pervoi-ocheredi/

and the rate of fire has not been fixed))))

Edited by SkyRAY
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1 hour ago, SkyRAY said:

wait, what? it seems like over here you have to follow a massive criteria and provide x amount of sources and pics, yet something as simple as that got accepted?

 

and i thought my chally gunner location report was lacking so much that it didn't get looked at... oh

Edited by Iraphoen
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40 minutes ago, Shrike142 said:

Really? I hadn't noticed 

 

Seriously though, what have we done to them to deserve this?

 

  1. Be a minority community relative to the big 3.
  2. Be part of a nation (if you're a Brit this is) who don't have much in the way of militaristic national pride and therefore relatively little support for British hardware and relatively little data on them produced by the online d1ck-measuring contests which create all the hype/BS around certain tanks and aircraft.
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Really? Detailed error reports have been made, with documented sources, photographs, an analysis has been done that is not professional but is much (much more) better than what gaijin does, comparing and giving meaning between documents.
We have been asking for wet pallets for shermans, centurions, chieftains, challengers but since no Russian vehicle uses them, they do not model it. I found error reports since the launch of the Americans (I do not remember how many years ago), and do not even deign to review.
Documents indicating 250 mm minimum for the chieftain in the turret at 60 °.
Reports of incorrect position of the gunner in the cr1, minimum values documented wrongly interpreted, CE protection based on a document that indicates probabilities (a complete stupidity), NERA not modeled in the helmet (in the game we have a cr1 mk2 that per document had 500 mm KE), in addition to the provision of the UFP shielding is wrong, covering a larger area.
Tanks that use ammunition that was not produced at the time of production. I do not know what kind of logic Gaijin uses, since we can say that practically any feature that is Russian is not implemented in the game, and that a document tells me that a cannon of the second war of 150 mm of drilling has a probability of 80% at 10 meters and 10% at 2000 meters, then it is assumed that the tank only has 150 mm of resistance?...

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14 hours ago, barto667 said:
Spoiler

Really? Detailed error reports have been made, with documented sources, photographs, an analysis has been done that is not professional but is much (much more) better than what gaijin does, comparing and giving meaning between documents.
We have been asking for wet pallets for shermans, centurions, chieftains, challengers but since no Russian vehicle uses them, they do not model it. I found error reports since the launch of the Americans (I do not remember how many years ago), and do not even deign to review.
Documents indicating 250 mm minimum for the chieftain in the turret at 60 °.
Reports of incorrect position of the gunner in the cr1, minimum values documented wrongly interpreted, CE protection based on a document that indicates probabilities (a complete stupidity), NERA not modeled in the helmet (in the game we have a cr1 mk2 that per document had 500 mm KE), in addition to the provision of the UFP shielding is wrong, covering a larger area.
Tanks that use ammunition that was not produced at the time of production. I do not know what kind of logic Gaijin uses, since we can say that practically any feature that is Russian is not implemented in the game, and that a document tells me that a cannon of the second war of 150 mm of drilling has a probability of 80% at 10 meters and 10% at 2000 meters, then it is assumed that the tank only has 150 mm of resistance?...

 

 

For most of this see point (1). For the rest, we would have more concrete data were it not for point (2) - I think it is a lack of civilian interest in these things amongst British people which leads to the shortage of concrete data being extracted from archives etc.

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I do not know what process should be done to obtain declassified documents. I suppose you should apply and if you want to get a copy you should pay a few dollars.
I understand that Gaijin can not send his staff but why not put a program of rewards, that is to say that they do not give you money but they give you premium accounts, eagles, special vehicles for those people who obtain and invest their time to go and request information. Nor is it that someone invests time and money for nothing, but if you have rewards from the entire player base there will be at least one person who does.
Unfortunately Gaijin has no absolute interest in modeling vehicles, or at least some. I have seen detailed reports, not only for the British, who did a great job in documenting information that Gaijin sends to the shredder.

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Britain suck worse then Japan past 7.0 LOL now that's funny. 

Edited by DaffanZ
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For Brits you need a bit masochistic side - and with reaching the first chieftain I was surprised that the researching of the addons is even more masochistic - even my Abrahms goes faster and with less points. Now they even pushed it up in BR twice - It must be a really good tank - if you are a mad player which cannot do anything else as playing....

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On 06/07/2018 at 10:42, Jarms said:

I don’t think they hate the British they’ve implement a lot of my bug reports. Not to mention the great work from people such as Time4Tea, Whelmy, and FuryMkI. 

 

We we just need to do more leg work and fix their mistakes. RoryWatt18, and myself are currently working on correcting the Crusader (and variants) internal armour values.


Well, that is the problem... sometimes.

They implemented a bug report on Cromwell's armour (ID: 0058258). But the report used blueprints for a rare welded version. Author thought the only difference is applique armour. But there are more.

Gaijin, for some reason, only changed the hull armour by the report. So now, we have Cromwell with welded hull and riveted turret (which is without inner armour skelet it seems).
The model itself is hull type C, that was not welded (D and E were) as far as I know. It has limited speed (later models) but the old trackguards (early models, left on training tanks)....
To sum it up, it is a really weird hybrid now.

And I'm still looking for a way to find some numbers on the turret ring. Gaijin just use the turret floor value it seems, but that is wrong. Especially on Cromwell's successor, Comet.

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Only reasonably explanation is yes they hate british ...  in sim they are geting worse tanks almost every time .. 

 

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