Hussar91

Gaijin, why do you hate the British?

Hi Gaijin, Wiggo here popping in to see if I can extrapolate some answers from you this time (seeing as I'm usually chinned off when I post) but I've just got to know, what it is exactly that you have against the United Kingdom. Now, I know you've looked into tanks before modelling and introducing them to us because you tend to do a little backstory when you're hyping up your new additions but clearly you and I studied alternate history. We'll take the Centurion for instance. The Centurion saw extensive service in the Arab- Israeli wars and had absolutely no problem with dispatching T-54s and T-55s and even T-62s, though that the latter and the subsequent development of the T-64 saw the British design, develop, produce and field the Chieftain. So if one of your team could hop on here and explain to me why the L7 105mm as seen on the Centurion Mk10 struggles and mostly fails to have an effect on the likes of the T-54 series from the front at any range, I'd be most grateful. I appreciate you're a Russian company, I appreciate you may well have an affection for the contraptions designed by the USSR and that's understandable, to be honest, they're amongst my favourite AFVs too, however, I feel it's unreasonable to have a game which pushes historical accuracy and attention to detail and then disregards real-world performance that's well documented.  

Solid shot rounds and Sub-Calibre rounds are deadly, that's why they're used. HESH too is a deadly projectile when used against RHA (also against structures but we'll focus on armour) and that's why it's used to this day (though that's not to suggest that it is necessarily useful against modern MBTs with composite armour matrixes, because it's not, though would still cause enough damage to achieve M-kills). However, in the game what we see is APDS and HESH massively underperforming which is fine when you've got tanks that have access to other munitions, but we all know that it's not an option for the British because we stuck to what we knew and what had worked for us. There is little more frustrating, with regards to this game, than experiences like I've had today on Sim whereby I have come face to face with T-54s at ranges of between 600m and 20m in a Centurion Mk10 (a tank that, as previously mentioned has dispatched many T-54s and their unfortunate crews in the past) and to get the drop on them, only to see an APDS non-pen the UFP or a HESH get eaten, something that doesn't happen in reality. 

I see similar things particularly with the Chieftains Mk3 and Mk5 as well as other platforms armed with the L7. Ironically, the Cent Mk 3 seems to find it easier to deal with the threats it was designed to counter than it's successor variant which is nothing short of ludicrous, L7 armed Centurions, saw widespread service into the 80s and limited service past that time which wouldn't have been the case had they been as impotent as War Thunder would suggest. 

The issues highlighted are not isolated to the listed platforms, only those platforms are the ones I have used recently which show these patterns of behaviour, or should I say misbehaviour. This post isn't the only one on the forums that is pointing these issues out and really after a handful of patches, it is time for you to screw the proverbial nut and deal with an issue which is one of a few that inhibits an otherwise excellent game. 

Thanks, 
             Wiggo out.

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23 minutes ago, Hussar91 said:

So if one of your team could hop on here and explain to me why the L7 105mm as seen on the Centurion Mk10 struggles and mostly fails to have an effect on the likes of the T-54 series from the front at any range

because post-pen is now based on the residual pen, meaning Cent. Mk.10 is now more or less useless. Its sabot does little to none damage, its hesh as well. in our case, Mk.10 is facing 54-47, 54-49, IS-4 and 268 spam. having sabots use the same mechanics as solid shots, made most of L7 armed tanks ( Centurion, M60, Leopard 1) weak. Only M60A1 stands aside from this, simply because of M728 sabot.

 

I don't agree on Chieftains, their residual pen is enough to deal with soviets, including T62M-1, because 120mm sabot has enough pen and residual pen to deal with most of the soviet tanks (54,55,62, M-1, etc.) Chieftains struggle only against 64s.

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Just now, Hussar91 said:

Hi Gaijin, Wiggo here popping in to see if I can extrapolate some answers from you this time (seeing as I'm usually chinned off when I post) but I've just got to know, what it is exactly that you have against the United Kingdom. Now, I know you've looked into tanks before modelling and introducing them to us because you tend to do a little backstory when you're hyping up your new additions but clearly you and I studied alternate history. We'll take the Centurion for instance. The Centurion saw extensive service in the Arab- Israeli wars and had absolutely no problem with dispatching T-54s and T-55s and even T-62s, though that the latter and the subsequent development of the T-64 saw the British design, develop, produce and field the Chieftain. So if one of your team could hop on here and explain to me why the L7 105mm as seen on the Centurion Mk10 struggles and mostly fails to have an effect on the likes of the T-54 series from the front at any range, I'd be most grateful. I appreciate you're a Russian company, I appreciate you may well have an affection for the contraptions designed by the USSR and that's understandable, to be honest, they're amongst my favourite AFVs too, however, I feel it's unreasonable to have a game which pushes historical accuracy and attention to detail and then disregards real-world performance that's well documented.  

Solid shot rounds and Sub-Calibre rounds are deadly, that's why they're used. HESH too is a deadly projectile when used against RHA (also against structures but we'll focus on armour) and that's why it's used to this day (though that's not to suggest that it is necessarily useful against modern MBTs with composite armour matrixes, because it's not, though would still cause enough damage to achieve M-kills). However, in the game what we see is APDS and HESH massively underperforming which is fine when you've got tanks that have access to other munitions, but we all know that it's not an option for the British because we stuck to what we knew and what had worked for us. There is little more frustrating, with regards to this game, than experiences like I've had today on Sim whereby I have come face to face with T-54s at ranges of between 600m and 20m in a Centurion Mk10 (a tank that, as previously mentioned has dispatched many T-54s and their unfortunate crews in the past) and to get the drop on them, only to see an APDS non-pen the UFP or a HESH get eaten, something that doesn't happen in reality. 

I see similar things particularly with the Chieftains Mk3 and Mk5 as well as other platforms armed with the L7. Ironically, the Cent Mk 3 seems to find it easier to deal with the threats it was designed to counter than it's successor variant which is nothing short of ludicrous, L7 armed Centurions, saw widespread service into the 80s and limited service past that time which wouldn't have been the case had they been as impotent as War Thunder would suggest. 

The issues highlighted are not isolated to the listed platforms, only those platforms are the ones I have used recently which show these patterns of behaviour, or should I say misbehaviour. This post isn't the only one on the forums that is pointing these issues out and really after a handful of patches, it is time for you to screw the proverbial nut and deal with an issue which is one of a few that inhibits an otherwise excellent game. 

Thanks, 
             Wiggo out.

I bounce off things with APDS i shouldn't . . . like jagdpanzer IV-V or leopard gun mantles . ..  its really annoying

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1 hour ago, Althix said:

because post-pen is now based on the residual pen, meaning Cent. Mk.10 is now more or less useless. Its sabot does little to none damage, its hesh as well. in our case, Mk.10 is facing 54-47, 54-49, IS-4 and 268 spam. having sabots use the same mechanics as solid shots, made most of L7 armed tanks ( Centurion, M60, Leopard 1) weak. Only M60A1 stands aside from this, simply because of M728 sabot.

 

I don't agree on Chieftains, their residual pen is enough to deal with soviets, including T62M-1, because 120mm sabot has enough pen and residual pen to deal with most of the soviet tanks (54,55,62, M-1, etc.) Chieftains struggle only against 64s.

I wonder why the 120mm of the Conqueror is still the same crap. It looks like that Gaijin makes no difference between cannons, only between ammunition with exception of the chieftain.

 

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Just now, Rainbowprincess said:

I wonder why the 120mm of the Conqueror is still the same crap. It looks like that Gaijin makes no difference between cannons, only between ammunition with exception of the chieftain.

 

Chieftain is still terrible! The APDS bounces off leopards, ru-251, sadpanzer, and lots of stupid tanks it shouldn't bounce off of!

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I don’t think they hate the British they’ve implement a lot of my bug reports. Not to mention the great work from people such as Time4Tea, Whelmy, and FuryMkI. 

 

We we just need to do more leg work and fix their mistakes. RoryWatt18, and myself are currently working on correcting the Crusader (and variants) internal armour values.

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The problem with the brits is not enough people play them for Gaijiggles to give priority to our problems; I’m currently attempting to fix this by recommending as many people as possible to the Brits.

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3 hours ago, Jarms said:

I don’t think they hate the British they’ve implement a lot of my bug reports. Not to mention the great work from people such as Time4Tea, Whelmy, and FuryMkI. 

 

We we just need to do more leg work and fix their mistakes. RoryWatt18, and myself are currently working on correcting the Crusader (and variants) internal armour values.

I'm currently trying to fix British tier 6 tanks

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2 hours ago, gomine123 said:

The problem with the brits is not enough people play them for Gaijiggles to give priority to our problems; I’m currently attempting to fix this by recommending as many people as possible to the Brits.

And just like with Japan, Gaijin won't fix something people don't play, therefore there are fewer bug reports.

 

Like Peggy's blinking phones on hold.

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2 hours ago, omnipotank said:

I'm currently trying to fix British tier 6 tanks

 

Appreciate your effort, sir.

 

:salute:

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Yes Ive had issue with the 120mm Conq, is terrible when it bounces of a surface it shouldn't. 

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I can't believe there are people out there that have got so high up the tree as to have Centurions etc.

you guys must be very determined indeed..

I myself, have got as far as BR 4.7 but am finding it increasingly difficult to stay motivated with the Brits tree.

The last three battles I had in Firefly, Churchill mk7 and Achillies, I hit 42 times and got two, yes TWO kills, all three tanks have top ammo.

Now I don't pretend to be a pro player but even for me, that is ridiculous, two kills from 42 hits and two of those tanks have the very famous 17 pdr cannon, and the Firefly, as we all know, was designed to kill Tigers and Panthers, yet it rarely does, and even has trouble with Panzer 4's etc, at least in my experience.

I hop in my T-34's and start getting kill after kill, so it's not just down to my ineptitude (yes I know, Russian bias etc etc), but why ARE British tanks SO shyte in War Thunder??

I wouldn't mind if they were a little tougher but they are fragile too, to add insult to injury.

All in all, I am extremely disappointed with the British tree, and also wonder what Gaijin have against us.

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On 06/07/2018 at 21:26, gomine123 said:

The problem with the brits is not enough people play them for Gaijiggles to give priority to our problems; I’m currently attempting to fix this by recommending as many people as possible to the Brits.

 

Or maybe People would be more inclined to play tanks if they weren't so shafted? :lol2:

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It goes bad either way.

 

Lots of people play the inaccurately subpar British tree - "Is fine comrade, British look bad and people still play!"

 

No-one plays the inaccurately subpar British tree - "Do not waste time comrade, no-one plays that line."

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23 hours ago, Punkadelic said:

I can't believe there are people out there that have got so high up the tree as to have Centurions etc.

you guys must be very determined indeed..

I myself, have got as far as BR 4.7 but am finding it increasingly difficult to stay motivated with the Brits tree.

The last three battles I had in Firefly, Churchill mk7 and Achillies, I hit 42 times and got two, yes TWO kills, all three tanks have top ammo.

Now I don't pretend to be a pro player but even for me, that is ridiculous, two kills from 42 hits and two of those tanks have the very famous 17 pdr cannon, and the Firefly, as we all know, was designed to kill Tigers and Panthers, yet it rarely does, and even has trouble with Panzer 4's etc, at least in my experience.

I hop in my T-34's and start getting kill after kill, so it's not just down to my ineptitude (yes I know, Russian bias etc etc), but why ARE British tanks SO shyte in War Thunder??

I wouldn't mind if they were a little tougher but they are fragile too, to add insult to injury.

All in all, I am extremely disappointed with the British tree, and also wonder what Gaijin have against us.

 

Surprised you're having trouble with the Firefly's gun - I've found it a joy to play since the BR reduction & AP buff came in for it.

 

Then again I only play RB, perhaps the need of killing that extra crewman in AB makes all the difference.

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hmm yes I haven't tried in RB....might have to give it a try, 

in arcade I find I hit ok but the enemy rarely explodes, unlike my poor Brit tanks which explode all the time, very frustrating..

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On 06/07/2018 at 12:26, gomine123 said:

The problem with the brits is not enough people play them for Gaijiggles to give priority to our problems; I’m currently attempting to fix this by recommending as many people as possible to the Brits.

 

Yeah and the thing is, for as long as British tanks are dogged and for as long as those issues go unresolved, people will continue to avoid them because it makes little sense trying to grind your way up a tree that seemingly leads nowhere other than to more heartache. 

It's not acceptable for them to simply sit back and twiddle their thumbs on the issue. Not for the player base that wants to experience those tanks in an enjoyable atmosphere, many of whom will have spent alot of money on the game to date and I'd also argue that it's unfair to the people who modelled the tanks so accurately in the first place. Let's be honest, war thunder has some of the most accurately represented tanks going when it comes to visuals, way above their competition. Yet many of these tanks aren't getting used because no one can be bothered with them. 

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Hussar91 you´re wright.

It´s so bad to drive british Tank. They´ve won the War so the Tanks couldn´t be so bad. Why here in this Game?

If i´m shooting with the Firefly or the Comet I it´s different.

The Firefly makes a Oneshot and the Avenger or Achilles only makes a Crit.

Why the Firefly and the Avenger or Achilles have the same Cannon and Ammo.

Why is the Firefly better? Because it´s American?

Every German or Russian Tank can my Comet I Oneshot but me i can´t Oneshot if i´m using APDS Ammo.

Me i can´t nobody Oneshot and it´s so not important what kind of Ammo i´m using. You won´t get a Oneshot. Never Ever, because it´s British!!!!!

They have so nice tanks like the Cromwells but all british Cannons you can put in the garbish!!!!
I need American or German Cannons on my british Tanks.

Please Gaijin allow us to chose the Cannon on every single Tank in Arcade Battles.

I want a fair Chance to win a battle and not to lose almost every Battle with the British Tanks.

 

 

Edited by LoserRoccii888
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Consider hidden tanks. Tanks that you could only acquire during a limited time and are no longer available to purchase in game or even with hard cash. 

 

They can be broken down into three sub catagories

 - Unique vehicles not seen anywhere else in any tech trees.

 - Captured / lend lease vehicles from other tech trees.

 - Variation of / Named vehicle that exists in its nation's the tech tree.

 

Let us just compare Russian and British unique hidden vehicles for now. The three hidden T-34 variations on top of all the other T-34 variants will have to wait.

 

Russian

 - BM-13N "Katyusha": https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=BM-13N

This is a vodka fuelled joke. Fun, but really probably shouldn't be in a tank game. At least until they work out how to implement artillery properly. You get 16 x 132mm rockets and a truck. Probably some vodka in the glove compartment to.

Mass produced and lots of them.

 - KV-220: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=KV-220

Rare and apparently absolutely deadly. Never saw any bug reports concerning its armour and since it's Russian it's fairly safe to assume it's an air tight box with 100mm of armour everywhere.

Probably made the prototype stage in real life or just existed as blueprints.

 - IS-7: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=IS-7

One sold for $1000+ it's that good. There are ways to defeat them but otherwise it's a superb tank to have on your side.

Made the prototype stage then Russia realised that heavy tanks weren't a thing anymore.

 

British

 - AEC Mk.II: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=AEC_Mk.II

Given that there were 600+ AEC armoured cars rolling around getting shot at during active service in the war, I'm peeved that the variant that's actually in the tech tree is the AA version which only saw testing.

As above, 600+ produced. 

 - A.33 Excelsior: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=A.33_Heavy_Assault_Tank_"Excelsior"

Well this went down well when people finally completed the grind to get it. It should have been a Cromwell with thicc armour and fat tracks. Instead it could be killed by machine gun fire from the front because there were massive holes in the armour model.

Two prototypes produced before the Churchill got good and the need for a replacement was dropped.

- A.43 Black Prince: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=A.43_Black_Prince

Complaints from overly vocal portions of the forum, mainly about being unable to penetrate the BP frontally because flanking something with a top speed of 18km/h isn't a thing, had bumped the BP up and left it feeling 'Ehhh...' Then it was removed from sale. Weird.

Single prototype, then Centurions became a thing.

 

 

Again, why I can't get the AEC Mk.II in game when in real life they out numbered.. .say... Sturer Emils 300~1, KV-2s 2~1, and then all 600 of them could gang up on the lone Super Pershing. *Grumble grumble*

 

So where am I going with this? Not sure, only, given that there're three? Four? A few times more Russian vehicles in-game than British available, why're there 3 unique hidden vehicles apiece? 

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On 9/23/2018 at 3:48 PM, EASYOKO said:

Vickers MBT is a tank junk. How does Gaijin have the guts to leave him in BR 7.0? Pathetic.

 

Hi Gaijin. Are you going to leave Vickers in this BR even when you change several Soviet tanks?

He dies for T-44, Panther D and even Sherman ... DIE FORWARD.

RIDICULOUS!

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the fact is gaijin doesnt care and is lazy, they only follow trends that print money (why past few patches have focused majority on modern content). Long standing issues they will probably never bother with because then it will make more work for them to do, for example fixing aphe meme would mean having to readjust the entire br's of all tiers.

Edited by Royal_Jellybags
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