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(Embraer T-27 Tucano) and (A-29 Super Tucano)

(Embraer T-27 Tucano) and (A-29 Super Tucano)  

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  1. 1. Do you support this idea?

    • Yes. I support this Suggestion.
    • No. I dont support this Suggestion
  2. 2. Embraer EMB-312 (T-27 Tucano)?

    • event vehicle
    • premium for france
    • on the French line
    • International Tech Tree
    • I said No
  3. 3. Embraer EMB 314 (A-29 Super Tucano)?

    • event vehicle
    • premium for Americans
    • on the American line
    • International Tech Tree
    • I said No


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                            Brasil

 

Embraer EMB-312 (T-27 Tucano)



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The Embraer 312 also known as Tucano was developed and manufactured by the Brazilian company Embraer.
It is a turbo propeller aircraft training and light attack, which was used as the base development platform for the Embraer 314 Super Tucano.
 
FAB_Tucanos-770x417.jpg
Historical Aspects
It began to be developed by Embraer in 1977, a period in which the FAB demanded new, more modern training aircraft, mainly because new and advanced Mirage III and Northrop F-5E fighter aircraft began operations, with relatively higher operating costs lower than the planes previously used in training. Its first flight was in 1980. The first delivery was made in 1983.
The Ministry of Aeronautics concluded a development agreement at the end of 1978 and the project began in January 1979 officially.

The EMB 312 aircraft also designated T27 by the FAB had advanced design and several innovative features for the time. It was the first aircraft developed from the outset with a turboprop engine, maintaining jet aircraft operating characteristics. Another innovation is the adoption of ejection seats, the first basic trainer to have this important safety device. The crew were sheltered under a transparent plexiglass hood allowing ample sight during the flight.

 

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The first prototype of the EMB 312, registered as YT-271300, was presented on August 19, 1980 - at commemoration of Embraer's 11 years -, when the aircraft made the first official flight.

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The first YT-27 aircraft carrying rockets

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The first prototype, registered as YT-271300, was officially presented at a rollout ceremony on August 19, 1980 - the date of Embraer's 11th anniversary, when the aircraft made its first flight. Given the excellent performance of the EMB 312 on the first test flights, the Ministry of Aeronautics signed with Embraer in October 1980 an order for 118 aircraft, enabling the start of serial production. In the year

Following this, the aircraft was named "Tucano" after a contest held with the cadets of the Air Force Academy (AFA). The plane soon aroused international interest and several nations began to test it. The first orders departed from Honduras and Egypt. Tucano was produced under license in Egypt for the Air Force of that country and also for Iraq, becoming the first experience of Embraer in the assembly of aircraft abroad. Shortly thereafter, the Royal Air Force (RAF) of the United Kingdom issued the demanding requirements of its future training aircraft, setting off the fiercest military competition of the time. Embraer has partnered with the Irish company Short Brothers PLC and Tucano has been extensively modified, giving rise to the Tucano Shorts, which won the competition. This victory was a milestone in Embraer's history, with great repercussion in the international media, as well as generating a third assembly line in Northern Ireland for the production of the Tucano Shorts.
 
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first Tucano assembly line at the Embraer factory in são josé dos campos

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Envisioning a business opportunity, Embraer began to study the alternatives available in the market, which at the time were limited to jet aircraft or conventional propulsion aircraft, adapted with turboprop engines. The option for a turboprop aircraft soon proved to be more appropriate, mainly because it is a more economical engine, a fundamental factor in a scenario of international oil crisis and the consequent rise in fuel prices that increased the time for flight training.

In 1977 Embraer prepared the first proposals of the EMB 312 to the then Ministry of Aeronautics. The Ministry closed a development agreement at the end of 1978 and the project was officially launched in January 1979.The EMB 312 aircraft, designated in the FAB as T-27, had advanced design for the season and several characteristics innovations that eventually became the worldwide standard for basic training aircraft. The EMB 312 was the first training aircraft developed and produced from the outset as a turboprop, but maintaining operational characteristics of jet aircraft. In addition, and unlike the other FAB inventory training aircraft, the EMB 312 did not have side-by-side seating, but rather in the staggered tandem configuration where the instructor and student sat in the longitudinal axis of the aircraft, with the rear position being higher, allowing the instructor the frontal view. It is configuration, besides reducing the frontal area of the aircraft, still allowed a better adaptation of the cadet to the environment of a fighter aircraft.Another innovative feature was the adoption of ejection seats. The EMB 312 was the first basic turboprop trainer to

be equipped with this important safety feature. The crew were sheltered under a large hood transparent in a single piece of plexiglass, produced in a way that does not generate optical distortions
The EMB 312 is designed to be a stable aircraft at low speeds and highly maneuverable, features important for a basic training aircraft. In addition to his primary coaching assignment, he could still receive external loads on four hard points on the wings, allowing their use in armed training missions, supportair and ground attack.
 
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presentation of the T-27 Tucano armament 1982

 

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Specifications: Embraer EMB-312 (T-27 Tucano)

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General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 9.86 m (32 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 11.14 m (36 ft 6 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 19.4 m² (209 sq ft)
Empty weight: 1,810 kg (3,991 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 3,175 kg (7,000 lb)
Internal fuel: 694 litres (183 US gal)[43] (152.7IMPgal)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C turboprop, 552 kW (750 hp)

Performance:
Never exceed speed: 539 km/h (291 kts, 335 mph)
Maximum speed: 458 km/h (247 kt, 285 mph) at 4,115 metres (13,501 ft)
Cruise speed: 441 km/h (238 kt, 274 mph) at 3,350 metres (10,990 ft)
Stall speed: 124 km/h (67 kt, 77 mph)
Range: 1,916 km (1,034 NM, 1,190 smi) on internal fuel
G limits: +6/-3
Endurance: 9hrs
Service ceiling: 8,750 m (28,700 ft)
Rate of climb: 1,900 ft/min (9.65 m/s)
Wing loading: 164 kg/m² (33.5 lb/ft²)

Armament:
Guns: Gun pods:
AN/M-B machine gun
12,7 mm machine gun
7,62 mm machine gun (500 rounds)
Rocket Machine Gun pod:
RMP LC with a 12.7mm M3P and (4x) 70 mm[124]
Hardpoints: 4 under-wing pylons with a capacity of 1,000 kg (2,200 lb)
Rockets:127 mm HVAR ground rockets
Rocket pods:
SBAT (7x) 37 mm
SBAT (7x) 70 mm

Bombs:General-purpose bomb:
Mk 81
Mk 82
Practice bomb:
MK 76 (20 lb)
Others:Ferry tanks: 2x 660 litres (170 US gal) or 330 litres (87 US gal)

 

 

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France-EMB-312F-312491-EPNAA-BA-701-Salo



 

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                           Brasil

 

Embraer EMB 314 (A-29 Super Tucano)



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The Embraer EMB 314 A-29 Super Tucano is a light-turbo attack aircraft designed for counterinsurgency, close air support and reconnaissance missions in low-threat environments, and provides pilot training. Designed to operate in high temperature and humidity conditions on extremely rugged terrain, the Super Tucano is highly manoeuvrable, low thermal signature and incorporates avionics and fourth generation weapons systems to provide precision guided munitions.

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In the mid-1980s, Embraer was working on the Short Tucano alongside a new designed EMB-312G1 version, carrying the same engine as Garrett. The EMB-312G1 prototype flew for the first time in July 1986. However, the project was discarded because the Brazilian Air Force was not interested in it. However, lessons from the recent use of aircraft combat in Peru and Venezuela have prompted Embraer to continue its studies. In addition to a trainer, he searched for a helicopter attack version called "helicopter killer" or EMB-312H. The study was stimulated by the unsuccessful proposal of the US Joint Primary Aircraft Training System program. A prototype prototype flew for the first time in September 1991. The aircraft has a 1.37 m fuselage extension with the addition of pre and post cockpit sections to restore its center of gravity and stability, a reinforced fuselage, cockpit pressurization and nose stretched to accommodate the most powerful PT6A-67R (1,424 shp) engine. Two new prototypes with the PT6A-68A (1,250 shp) engine were built in 1993. The second prototype flew for the first time in May 1993 and the third prototype flew in October 1993.

 

EMB-314_5-960x400.jpg

 

The request for a light attack aircraft was part of the Brazilian Government's Amazon Surveillance System project. This aircraft would fly with the R-99A and R-99B aircraft then in service and would be used to intercept illegal aircraft flights and patrol the Brazilian borders. The ALX project was then created by the Brazilian Air Force, which also needed a military instructor to replace the Embraer EMB 326GB Xavante. The new aircraft would be suitable for the Amazon region (high temperature, humidity and precipitation, low threat). The ALX was then specified as a long-range, autonomous turboprop engine, capable of operating day and night, under any weather conditions, and capable of landing at short aerodromes without infrastructure.
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Prototype EMB-312H, and its armament
In August 1995, the Brazilian Ministry of Aeronautics granted Embraer a US $ 50 million contract to develop the ALX. Two EMB-312Hs have been upgraded to serve as ALX prototypes. These made their first flights in their new configuration in 1996 and 1997, respectively. The initial flight of an ALX configured for production, later modified from one of the prototypes, occurred on June 2, 1999. The second prototype was configured in two places and made its first flight on October 22, 1999. The changes were considerable that the type was given a new designation, the EMB-314 Super Tucano. The total development cost of the aircraft was between $ 200 million and $ 300 million.
 
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The aircraft differs from the EMB-312 Tucano baseline training aircraft in several respects. It is powered by a more powerful Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C engine of 1,200 kW (1,600 shp) (compared to the 560 kW (750 shp) power engine of the EMB-312); has a reinforced structure to sustain higher loads and increase fatigue life for 18,000 to 12,000 hours in operating environments; an enhanced landing gear to handle larger takeoff weights and heavier loads, up to 1,550 kg (3,300 lb); Kevlar armor protection; two internal, .50 calipers mounted on the handle. machine guns (with 200 cartridges of ammunition each); capacity to carry several mills at five weapon points, including Giat NC621 20mm cannon, Mk 81/82 bombs, Piranha MAA-1 air-to-air missiles, BLG-252 and SBAT- 70/19 or LAU-68A / G rockets in their underwing stations; and has a "glass cockpit" compatible with night vision goggles, with acceleration and handling controls; provision for a data link; a video camera and recorder; an integrated mission planning capability; future-oriented infrared; straw / flare distributors; warning systems for approaching missiles and radar warning receivers; and zero-zero ejection seats. The structure is corrosion protected and the side hinged canopy has a windshield capable of withstanding impact impacts up to 500 km / h (270 kn).
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T & D special reporter, journalist Kaiser David Konrad, conducted a A-29 Super Tucano flight on the 81st United States Air Force (USAF) Fighter Squadron at Moody Air Force
Base in Georgia.
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Specifications: EMB 314 (A-29 Super Tucano)

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General characteristics
Crew: Pilot plus one navigator/student in tandem on Martin Baker Mk 10 LCX zero-zero ejection seats
Payload: 1,500 kg (3,307 lb)
Length: 11.38 m (37 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 11.14 m (36 ft 6.5 in)
Height: 3.97 m (13 ft 0.25 in)
Wing area: 19.4 m2 (208.8 sq ft)
Empty weight: 3,200 kg (7,055 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,400 kg (11,905 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C turboprop, 1,196 kW (1,600 shp)
Propellers: Hartzell 5-blade constant speed, fully feathering, reversible-pitch propeller

Performance:
Maximum speed: 590 km/h (319 knots, 367 mph)
Cruise speed: 520 km/h (281 knots, 323 mph)
Stall speed: 148 km/h (80 knots, 92 mph)
g-limit: +7/-3.5 g)
Range: 720 nmi (827 mi, 1,330 km)
Combat radius: 550 km (300 nmi, 342 mi) (hi-lo-hi profile, 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) of external stores)
Ferry range: 1,541 nmi (1,774 mi, 2,855 km)
Endurance: 8hrs 24mins
Service ceiling: 10,668 m (35,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 16.4 m/s (3,242 ft/min)

Armament:
Guns:

Internal: (2×) 12.7 mm (0.50 in) 1,100 rounds per minute FN Herstal M3P machine guns, one in each wing.
pod: 1 20 mm (0.79 in) 650 rounds per minute GIAT M20A1 cannon below the fuselage.
pod: 1 12.7 mm (0.50 in) FN Herstal HMP for M3P machine gun under each wing
pod: up to 4 7.62 mm (0.30 in) 3,000 rounds per minute Dillon Aero M134 Minigun (under development) under wings.
Hardpoints: 5 (two under each wing and one under fuselage centreline) with a capacity of 1,550 kg (3,300 lb)
Rockets:
(4x) pods 70 mm (2.75 in) LM-70/19[210](SBAT-70
(4x) pods 70 mm (2.75 in) LAU-68A/G

Missiles:
Air-to-air:
AIM-9L Sidewinder
MAA-1A Piranha
MAA-1B Piranha (under development)
Python 3
Python 4
Air-to-ground:
AGM-65 Maverick[210]
Roketsan Cirit
General-purpose bombs:
(10x) Mk 81
(5x) Mk 82
M-117

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source:

 

Edited by pieve
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Open for Discussion.:salute:

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This is my search about the Embraer EMB-314 A-29 Super Tucano, I would like to complement the main post with my own.

 

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ESSE TÓPICO É BRASILEIRO!

 

Embraer EMB-314 A-29 Super Tucano

 

Brief history

 

In the late 1970s, Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer, with funding from the Brazilian Air Force, developed the EMB-312 T-27 Tucano, an agile, lightweight and inexpensive aircraft both in construction and maintenance. The Tucano was a booming sales success and is now used by 16 air forces in the world, especially the Royal British Air Force (RAF), who called for the development of an armed version for advanced ground attack training (EMB-312G1).

 

800px-EMB-312H_PT-ZTW.jpg.51c7daa5601a3fPrototype model EMB-312H, source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficheiro:EMB-312H_PT-ZTW.jpg

At that time the FAB was looking for an attack aircraft to be integrated into the SIVAM (Amazon Surveillance System) and also to replace the Aermacchi MB-326, an Italian training aircraft built under license by Embraer (which in Brasil was known as AT- 26 Xavante).

127778433_yourfile.jpgfilenameyourfile(1Spitfire, Tucfire and Spitano. Short Tucanos with special Spitfire painting to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the victory of the Battle of Britain, source http://caiafa.blogspot.com/2010/05/shorts-tucano-with-as-cores-dos-spitfire.html

 

In the second half of the 1990s, Embraer, also motivated by several international competitions for the choice of ground attack aircraft, won a contract to develop this new airplane, based on a Tucano. Although externally both devices are very similar, internally there are large and important differences. The engine chosen to power the A-29 was the 1600-horsepower Pratt and Whitney PT-6A 68C, far more than the 750 horsepower generated by the T-27 engine. In addition, its entire structure has been strengthened to withstand more bomb loads and also to withstand a higher G force due to high speed maneuvers.

Two .50 cal machine guns were installed on the wings, and five hard points for fixing bombs and 20 mm cannons. The cockpit received some extra Kevlar protection, and the entire electronic part was upgraded, resulting in one of the world's most modern light-attack aircraft. In addition to the pilot, you can also carry a navigator or an apprentice.

 

Super_Tucano_FN_Herstal_M3P.jpg.669e9694FN Herstal M3P 12.7mm machine gun, source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficheiro:Super_Tucano_FN_Herstal_M3P.jpg

 

Its avionics are one of the most modern aircraft currently in international military aviation, making the Super Tucano one of the most modern aircraft in its class. It features an advanced night vision navigation and aiming control system, forming an extremely accurate platform for launching bombs and missiles. The Super Tucano continues at this moment in constant evolution, with contracts signed with Boeing for the development of a new system of bombs, besides a new radar developed by ORBISAT that according to the experts, will be able to locate and lock target on the ground with high precision.

The Super Tucano is extremely robust, having been specifically designed to be operated on rustic slopes built in the Amazon rainforest. Its maintenance is also greatly simplified and can operate for hundreds of hours in combat conditions without the need for large and costly interventions. In addition to light attack aircraft was designed to perform the role of air support aircraft in close proximity to anti-terrorist and anti-guerrilla operations, aerial reconnaissance and also pilot training.

It was introduced to the Brazilian air force in 2003, having already been adopted by eight other countries, most notably Colombia, which used its 25 Super Tucanos actively in the fight against drug trafficking and the FARC. Of the almost 250 Super Tucanos already built by Embraer, 99 are operated by the FAB, which actively uses SIVAM and border air control.

The Super Tucano's baptism of fire would come in January 2007 when the Colombian air force attacked and destroyed FARC positions in the Amazon rainforest. The mission was considered a complete success. Another major combat situation was the Sodoma operation in September 2010, when 25 Super Tucanos dumped 7 tons of bombs on a large FARC camp protected by more than 700 guerrillas. And in October 2011, five Colombian Super Tucanos dropped precision bombs on a guerrilla position in the Amazon, opening the way for an attack by the Colombian army that would result in the death of FARC leader Alfonso Cano.

It is obvious that this is an airplane with many limitations compared to the large jet fighters, but the Super Tucano performs exceptionally the tasks for which it was for these specific functions, the Super Tucano is surely one of the best devices available in the world today.

The Super Tucano is currently competing under the US Air Force's (USAF) OAX program, which aims to replace the A-10 Thunderbolt for a lighter and cheaper aircraft, with the EMB-314 A-29 Super Tucano a flight hour cost 22.5 times lower than the A-10. The Super Tucano competes with the American Beechcraft T-6 Texan II.

https://embraer.com/en/noticias/?slug=466-forca-aerea-dos-eua-seleciona-o-a29-super-tucano-para-o-programa-las

 

Personal opinion

 

Me, as a Brazilian and War Thunder player for a long time, would love to see the Embraer EMB-314 A-29 Super Tucano being introduced in the game, perhaps as ground attack aircraft on a 7.7 or 8.0 BR on the American or International line, regular or premium (because its assembly line is based on the Embraer plant in São José dos Campos, SP, Brasil and also in Melbourne, FL, USA, sharing many American components).

Perhaps, soon, when the air-to-ground missiles are well established in the game, the Super Tucano can be an excellent aircraft inside the game, as it is an extremely robust, lightweight, agile, easy to build and maintain aircraft. efficient in what it does. Of course we can not compare with, for example, the A-10 Thunderbolt, which has not yet retired for being stupidly good at what it does, but both aircraft perform essentially the same functions within the battlefield. That is, only in a fully controlled air environment, attacking land targets with extreme accuracy

I believe that by making a brief comparison, the Super Tucano is similar to the AD-2 and AD-4 currently present in the game. Of course they are aircraft with a significant difference of age, I recognize this very well, but in the game there are many vehicles that are still used today and are very recent, and I believe that in a higher BR, who knows the Super Tucano can be balanced, using the appropriate weapons to put him in that position.

 

 

251753324_Semttulo.thumb.png.ecbcfe41722 Semi 3D model of the Super Tucano, available at: https://defense.embraer.com/global/en/super-tucano

 

General features

 

Description:

 

Type / Mission: Light attack aircraft and advanced training, with turboprop engine, monoplane single-engine.

Country of origin: Brasil

Manufacturer: Embraer Defense & Security

Quantity Produced: 247

Developed by: Embraer EMB-312 Tucano

First flight on: June 2, 1999 (19 years old)

Introduced: August 6, 2004 (official)

Crew: 1 (single seat) or 2 (double seat)

 

 

Dimensions:

 

Wingspan: 11.14 m (36.54856 ft)

Length: 11,30 m (37,07349 ft)

Height: 3.97 m (13.02493 ft)

 

 

Weights:

 

Empty: 3200 kg (7055 lbs)

Maximum take-off: 5400 kg (12000 lbs)

Maximum combat load (external loads / ammunition): 1550 kg (3420 lbs)

Crew: 1 single pilot or 2 (1 pilot + 1 system operator / student) in the double seat.

 

 

Performance:

 

Maximum leveled speed: 590 km / h (365 mph) empty

Cruising speed: 520 km / h (325 mph)

Stall speed: 148 km / h (92 mph)

Reach of transfer: 1445 km (900 mi) with internal fuel and 2855 km (1775 mi) with external tanks

Service ceiling: 10665 m (35000 ft)

Autonomy: 3,4 h (internal fuel) and 8,4 h (with external tanks)

Fighting radius: 550 km (340 mi) Hi-Lo-Hi

Taking Off distance / landing distance: 900 m / 860 m (3000 ft / 2820 ft)

 

 

Structure:

 

Load factors: +7 G / -3.5G

Pressurizing: 5 psi

Shelf life: 12000 h (typical combat) and 18000 h (typical training)

Windshield: Impact resistant to birds from 1.8 kg (4 lbs) to 555 km / h (354 mph)

 

 

Weapons:

 

Machine guns: 2 × FN Herstal M3P 12.7 mm (.50 in., Each with two hundred and fifty shots, installed internally on the wings)

Cannons: 1 × 20 GIAT M20A1 cannon pod (under the fuselage)

Rockets: 4x 70mm LM-70/19 rocket launcher pods or 70mm LAU-68 rocket launcher pods

Bombs: Mk 81; BAFG-120; Mk 82 or M117 (general use); BLG-252 (grenade launcher); Lizard or Griffin (laser guided); JDAM (direct attack joint ammunition); SDB (small diameter bombs); Paveway II (guided by laser / GPS)

Air-to-air missiles: 2 × AIM-9L; MAA-1 (homologated); Python 3 or Python 4

Air-surface missiles: 2 × AGM-65; 4 × AGM-114

Weapon Stations: 5 points (two on each wing and one under the fuselage)

 

1045935674_A-29-Super-Tucano-principais- Main armed configurations, source:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads//2013/04/A-29-Super-Tucano-main-configurations-armored-record-of-imagem-Embraer .jpg

 

Propulsion:

 

Engine: 1 Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68C turbocharger with 1600 horsepower (hp) power, incorporating FADEC (digital engine control with full authority) and EICAS (engine indication system and crew alert).

Propeller: 1 Hartzell pentapá of 2.38 m (7.808399 ft) in diameter

 

 

Systems and equipment:

 

Shielding for cab and engine (optional)

CMFD / HUD / UFCP / HOTASOBOGS (On-board oxygen generator system)

M3AR 6000 Series V / UHF Radio (secure data transmission and data reception system)

FLIR Star SAFIRE III or BRITE Star DP (electro-optical and infrared vision sensor at the front)

NVG ANVIS-9 (Night vision goggles)

CCIP / CCRP / CCIL / DTOS (computerized attack modes)

HMD (display system installed on the helmet) (optional)

Laser Range Finder (optional)

MAWS (missile approach warning system) (optional)

RWR (radar alert receiver) (optional)

Chaff & flare (dispenser system for self-defense) (optional)

Virtual training system for armaments and sensors

TOSS (training system and operational support)

Digital video camera and recorder

Stormscope WX-1000E (Weather Mapping System)

INS / GPS (integrated navigation system)

Automatic pilot

Ejection seat Martin-Baker Mk 10LCX zero / zero

Diving airbrake

Air conditioning

Searchlight

Colombian_EMB-314_flaring.jpg.497cacd125Super Tucano of the Colombian Air Force releasing flares in Rionegro, source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficheiro:Colombian_EMB-314_flaring.jpg

 

Research Sources:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nwZOO1mv0&

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB-314

https://defense.embraer.com/global/en/super-tucano

https://embraer.com/en/noticias/?slug=466-forca-aerea-dos-eua-seleciona-o-a29-super-tucano-para-o-programa-las

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB-312

 

Final considerations:

Thank you so much for reading this far, and for me as a Brazilian, the Super Tucano is a reason for pride.

800px-Super_Tucano_Operators.pngCountries in the world using the Embraer EMB-314 A-29 Super Tucano currently, source: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficheiro:Super_Tucano_Operators.png

 

Edited by BR_Skyguy1939
source referring to the last image
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36 minutes ago, Battered_Walrus said:

yeh no give it to nations within the game that used it, maybe if gaijin decide to add an International tech tree. simply Put, no it goes to those who operated it ingame

I don't like the idea of an international tt as it's more of a mess.

A sub tree could work the same as the heli tree or progressive in a folder (ex US folder has the US trees and Brazilian trees) 

For multiple vehicles.

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I wouldn't be opposed to seeing this on the US tree, possibly as a premium or event vehicle (so long as it's not a repeat of the Battlefield Engineer event).  Could be a lot of fun.

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